October 2018 - Talk - lists.gtalug.org

October talk with Mike Hoye
by Alex Volkov 16 Oct '18

16 Oct '18

Hey Everyone, You can now watch the recording of our October 2018 talk -- The state of Mozilla (fall 2018) with Mike Hoye. Presentation -- https://youtu.be/5N92lfQwskw Q&A -- https://youtu.be/P3ipFvD8wt4 Meeting page for the video -- https://gtalug.org/meeting/2018-10/ Thanks, Alex.

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Software Heritage - collecting source code
by Christopher Browne 15 Oct '18

15 Oct '18

Interesting thing seen recently... "The long term goal of the Software Heritage initiative is to collect all publicly available software in source code form together with its development history, replicate it massively to ensure its preservation, and share it with everyone who needs it. The Software Heritage archive is growing over time as we crawl new source code from software projects and development forges. We will incrementally release archive search and browse functionalities — as of now you can check whether source code you care about is already present in the archive or not." A goodly set of "our stuff" is thereby archived... https://archive.softwareheritage.org/browse/search/?q=gtalug People have been worried about GitHub having been acquired by Microsoft; this sort of thing is part of what can be, to some extent, a protection against that. On the other hand, I'll bet this runs afoul of GRDP, and might run afoul of "right to be forgotten" laws that are starting to emerge. -- When confronted by a difficult problem, solve it by reducing it to the question, "How would the Lone Ranger handle this?"

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Microsoft Pledges to Protect Linux and Open Source With Its Patents
by James Knott 15 Oct '18

15 Oct '18

Thing have certainly changed since Bill & Steve left. http://www.eweek.com/enterprise-apps/microsoft-pledges-to-protect-linux-and…

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Re: [GTALUG] programming system questions
by o1bigtenor 15 Oct '18

15 Oct '18

On Sat, Oct 13, 2018 at 2:59 AM ac via talk <talk(a)gtalug.org> wrote: > > On Fri, 12 Oct 2018 10:44:45 -0500 > o1bigtenor <o1bigtenor(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > On Fri, Oct 12, 2018 at 8:54 AM ac via talk <talk(a)gtalug.org> wrote: > <snip> > > > sheepbytes.ca is cool, the local code looks neat and tidy. I am not > > > sure about the security thereof. And just imho S/R would not be > > > optimal to remake this specific java app.. just from playing with > > > the demo and reading the tech doc, if you do decide to remake this > > > in java/whatever it will be a lot of work, even with a fw and/or base. just > > > saying :) > > If I was going to add the monte carlo portion, I'm not at this time, > > there would be a lot more complexity under the hood. At present I'm thinking > > something like maybe LibreOffice's dbase for a front end and a > > postgresql back end. I feel no need to totally re-invent the wheel. > > If there is another 'kind' of 'frontend' where with some python (also to be learned) needed for glue and > > calculations well I'm looking. > > Python rocks :) I had to learn it myself a few years ago. Although > for what you want to do (sheepbytes) maybe try to use what you know? > what are you fluent or semi fluent in already? Java/PHP? > imho, many languages will easily do what you need :) > drawing from my own experience, something like sheepmates is not so > much about what you dev it in as the design and structure will take > 90+% of the time and the coding will be very easy and very simple. > The design and structure will anyway highlight the tools you need, so it is > not really so much about gut feel as it is about what you want/need. Me know nudtink! Programming has been something that I have not pursued at all to date. Starting because of a severe lack of tools in the playpen that I'm now working in. There is some commercial software out there - - - - its just hugely siloed and not always as useful as one is lead to believe by the sales literature. Then I really don't like some company having access to my own information. Oh well - - - - I guess I'm a sucker for doing things the hard way! > > > > a lot of what sheepmates is and does is also data related... > > > If I were making this, for myself and for local use, I would > > > probably enter the formulas into a spreadsheet and calculate my feed > > > requirements, etc from that...(yes, I am quite lazy - plus this way > > > I can give my spreadsheet out to my sheep mates and get free beer) > > > > I will look into if there is a way to use spreadsheet stuff but part > > of the issue is that there is a lot of behind the scenes stuff that brings up > > notices/warning > and gets connected. What you see is over a bunch of other logic and > > some of that is where more flexibility is needed than in the present iteration. > > > indeed. > which is why a spreadsheet will work so well, as the flexibility is > only limited by the users ability and skills (to use Calc and design a > spreadsheet that uses sheets, macros and other toys effectively :) > - afaik spreadsheets can also have popups (dialog) that can be > used for warnings and notices, etc.) > > So, a stock standard Calc will probably do the required job quite > easily, if it is designed and used effectively. It is also easy to > distribute, can easily be customised and chosen/selected/required data > could also be exported to a later S/R and from multiple sources :) Worth looking into - - - one more thing to do! (grin!!!) > > > I was going to offer the modified back to the previous as I don't > > really want to 'own' it merely to extend the present offerings. > > > cool :) The use community is likely quite small. There could be lots more people that could use it but finding them - - - - hugely distributed and too many would rather someone else does the work for them. (Its easier that way but then, imo at least, a major management item is being done by someone with no skin in the game.) Regards Dee

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Re: [GTALUG] programming system questions
by o1bigtenor 13 Oct '18

13 Oct '18

On Fri, Oct 12, 2018 at 8:54 AM ac via talk <talk(a)gtalug.org> wrote: > > On Fri, 12 Oct 2018 07:38:00 -0500 > o1bigtenor via talk <talk(a)gtalug.org> wrote: > > On Fri, Oct 12, 2018 at 6:32 AM Stewart C. Russell via talk > > <talk(a)gtalug.org> wrote: > > > If you're storing a large amount of information and doing > > > statistical work on it, you should at least consider learning R. > > > It's very strong for Monte Carlo simulation. > > Thanks - - - already on the order paper. > > > Also, if the web app you're using is public, please share the URL. > > > We don't know your business data, and I don't think¹ we're psychic > > > enough to work out what you're doing. > > The web application I'm presently using is a subscription service. > > They do have a demo that would provide most ideas for my quest - - - > > sheepbytes.ca . > > Thanks for the ideas! > > > sheepbytes.ca is cool, the local code looks neat and tidy. I am not > sure about the security thereof. And just imho S/R would not be optimal > to remake this specific java app.. just from playing with the demo and > reading the tech doc, if you do decide to remake this in java/whatever > - it will be a lot of work, even with a fw and/or base. just saying :) If I was going to add the monte carlo portion, I'm not at this time, there would be a lot more complexity under the hood. At present I'm thinking something like maybe LibreOffice's dbase for a front end and a postgresql back end. I feel no need to totally re-invent the wheel. If there is another 'kind' of 'frontend' where with some python (also to be learned) needed for glue and calculations well I'm looking. > > a lot of what sheepmates is and does is also data related... > If I were making this, for myself and for local use, I would probably > enter the formulas into a spreadsheet and calculate my feed > requirements, etc from that...(yes, I am quite lazy - plus this way I > can give my spreadsheet out to my sheep mates and get free beer) I will look into if there is a way to use spreadsheet stuff but part of the issue is that there is a lot of behind the scenes stuff that brings up notices/warning and gets connected. What you see is over a bunch of other logic and some of that is where more flexibility is needed than in the present iteration. I was going to offer the modified back to the previous as I don't really want to 'own' it merely to extend the present offerings. Dee

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dreamhost reply, is dh key exchange question.
by Karen Lewellen 12 Oct '18

12 Oct '18

Hi Mike and everyone. Below is the explanation from dreamhost regarding my dh key exchange situation. A bit of background. Dreamhost has a special program allowing International Nonprofit organizations who can demonstrate tax exempt status to have a hosting account with their service. My employee got such an account years back, they have offices both in new York and Toronto. I have asked Brian to share the documentation dreamhost provided its nonprofit organization members in this program of their so called business decision. I pointed out that many in the nonprofit sector are using less than hot off the shelf tools to manage their internet efforts, with this business decision creating a risk for more than myself. Further, I pointed out that I am at the moment, physically incapable of making changes having not been able to work fully since the end of June. I share his first post, I have not gotten an answer yet to my reply. I dare say the simple solution would be, if they exists, an easy way to manage it, finding another company all together. At the same time though I would welcome educating other dreamhost customers, say via there twitter presence, if they have one. Thoughts on their explanation? Karen <dreamhost e-mail begins below this line:> On Mon, 8 Oct 2018, DreamHost Customer Support Team wrote: > Hello, > "I don't see that there should be any trouble connecting to > dreamhost.com..." > > Simply connecting to dreamhost.com is not a valid test, as there are no > customers ever hosted on our main web site. That server is reserved for > internal use only. It has only internal use logins on it. Encryption is > maintained via a separate system. > > "However there is a problem with Eugene.dreamhost.com Since > dreamhost.com still should allow my ssh client to connect, the question > is if my account can be placed on a server that will > allow such a connection." > > Again, we are not hosting customers on any servers that support the > method of encryption you're looking for. I wish we could, but we have > made a business decision not to support that type of connection style for > customer logins. We will be updating dreamhost.com shortly. > > "You were going to move our account in any case, at least I have > e-mails saying that was going to > happen." > > That will simply be a move of email, to a different email server. This > is unrelated to where your web service lives. > > Sorry I can't be of more help here. > > Thanks! > Brian H > > -- > To continue this support case, just reply to this email. > Check our Knowledge Base tips and how-tos! https://help.dreamhost.com/ > Don't forget the expert content on our blog: > https://www.dreamhost.com/blog/ > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Are you happy with this response to your support inquiry? > > YES https://www.dreamhost.com/survey.cgi?h=y&n=154364736&m=4145361 > > NO https://www.dreamhost.com/survey.cgi?h=n&n=154364736&m=4145361 > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >

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Re: [GTALUG] programming system questions
by David Thornton 12 Oct '18

12 Oct '18

This is a chance for me to test my understanding by trying to explain it myself. Monte Carlo is where you randomly choose solutions from a solution space and then try to make the results better for each choice. Imagine you are trying to find the highest point on earth. Rather than scan the entire earth to find the highest point, you choose a sample of points and then see if there is something higher near-by. This is _in general_ more efficient than scanning the whole earth, but of course there is a change that you miss Everest. Consider the alternative approach of choosing a point and then looking for higher points nearby ( aka Gradient Descent). Suppose you started somewhere in Britain... you might scan the local area and come to the conclusion that snowdon is the highest place in the world. Now image that you do this 100 time, and then compare the local bests of those 100 attempts. You are more likely to find the highest point. That's monte carlo I think. Anyway, I'm not sure this has anything to do with what the OP is talking about. If I understand he/she wants to recreate an app. Does that mean reverse engineer? Are you trying to recreate someone else's app without direct access to that app? Are you trying to examine interactions with the app and predict what the app will do, and hence "simulate" the app? You might also consider creating a _smart_ proxy, that lets you cache results locally such that if you ask for the same thing a second time it's comes back faster. Additionally by implementing a proxy , you can populate your own copy of what ever data the original service is providing and study that for the purposes of reverse engineering. This sounds like a great conversation to have over a $drink, and/or in front of a white board. David On Thu, Oct 11, 2018 at 9:19 AM ac via talk <talk(a)gtalug.org> wrote: > On Thu, 11 Oct 2018 07:53:18 -0500 > o1bigtenor via talk <talk(a)gtalug.org> wrote: > > Greetings > > > Hello :) > > > I have been using a web application for one of my business functions. > > Besides the limitation of it being a web application (the web is NOT > > as consistent nor as quick as is considered 'normal' for those that > > like in rural areas) there are to many areas where I need to tweak the > > results. Therefore I would like to re-create this application. > > > on the web? > > > At its base its somewhat like a recipe system. I plan on using > > postgresql for data holding and now what might be a good way of now > > doing the work. > > > i love postgresql :) > > > Think that an item has from 5 to 50 of 50 information fields. I am > > adding a number of items together and specifying quantities of each > > item trying to achieve levels that I previously specified. > > The present application uses css and javascript and some other things > > that are on the 'home' (program owner's) server. > > Hopefully this description is clear enough and gives enough > > information so that suggestions might be forthcoming. (I asked an > > engineer friend and his suggestion was to use a monte carlo type of > > system but that would be several levels more complex that I think > > might be necessary for this application.) > > > i refuse to google "monte carlo type system" on duckduckgo.com... > please put me out of my misery and tell me what a monte carlo type > system is? ( I do love Monte Carlo also :) ) > > Andre > > --- > Talk Mailing List > talk(a)gtalug.org > https://gtalug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > -- David Thornton https://wiki.quadratic.net https://github.com/drthornt/ https://twitter.com/northdot9/

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programming system questions
by o1bigtenor 12 Oct '18

12 Oct '18

Greetings I have been using a web application for one of my business functions. Besides the limitation of it being a web application (the web is NOT as consistent nor as quick as is considered 'normal' for those that like in rural areas) there are to many areas where I need to tweak the results. Therefore I would like to re-create this application. At its base its somewhat like a recipe system. I plan on using postgresql for data holding and now what might be a good way of now doing the work. Think that an item has from 5 to 50 of 50 information fields. I am adding a number of items together and specifying quantities of each item trying to achieve levels that I previously specified. The present application uses css and javascript and some other things that are on the 'home' (program owner's) server. Hopefully this description is clear enough and gives enough information so that suggestions might be forthcoming. (I asked an engineer friend and his suggestion was to use a monte carlo type of system but that would be several levels more complex that I think might be necessary for this application.) Regards Dee

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Re: [GTALUG] programming system questions
by o1bigtenor 12 Oct '18

12 Oct '18

On Fri, Oct 12, 2018 at 12:17 AM ac via talk <talk(a)gtalug.org> wrote: > > On Thu, 11 Oct 2018 19:59:29 -0500 > o1bigtenor via talk <talk(a)gtalug.org> wrote: > > On Thu, Oct 11, 2018 at 12:10 PM Jamon Camisso via talk > > <talk(a)gtalug.org> wrote: > > > On 11/10/18 12:59, o1bigtenor wrote: > > > > And what does one do when the web is down? > > > A framework like react is built with this in mind - serviceworkers > > > handle offline actions until there's connectivity. > > > I'm sure others let you do the same thing with a local data > > > store/db, be it natively or through a plugin, and then sync up once > > > there's a connection. > > Sorry - - - this may be practical for some web applications but when > > one is doing calculations and changing things every few moments web latency feels > > like a pain and non-connection means the work just doesn't get done. In my > > opinion I would rather never see another web application. That's why > > I have a computer. > > Firstly, thank you for taking the time to explain a monte carlo system to me :) My explanation is how 'I' see a monte carlo analysis system - - - - the real definition may be totally fubar if compared to what I'm using! I first ran into the use of monte carlo analysis looking for forward financial analysis - - where it shines. It looks like it can be an excellent tool, albeit not simple nor easy, but maybe some of the negatives could be hidden in the software. For me the idea of being able to quantify with a reasonable certainty highly complex models is very attractive. Developing these skills is being part of the fun - - - there is a fairly large pile of things behind all the parts needed to do this. > > Secondly, you do everything said already and install apache, etc on > your own computer.... you can even have Apache only listening on > localhost, so that you use https://127.0.0.1 - there is still a > 'latency' but using javascript makes this a non issue Web latency isn't an issue if I'm doing a web application that I'm hosting but - - - when that application is hosted by someone else and my internet access system (wireless ISP) adds not only latency but can occasionally add large amounts of errors due to uncontrollables - - - - well - - - imo web applications aren't for everything (somewhat like personal vehicles don't work for everyone in north america either but there sure is a lot of pressure to have one). Very much appreciate the communication! Dee

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Re: [GTALUG] programming system questions
by o1bigtenor 11 Oct '18

11 Oct '18

Wow - - - - a pile of ideas - - - - wonderful!!!!! Thank you very much for your ideas!!!!! On Thu, Oct 11, 2018 at 8:19 AM ac via talk <talk(a)gtalug.org> wrote: > > On Thu, 11 Oct 2018 07:53:18 -0500 > o1bigtenor via talk <talk(a)gtalug.org> wrote: > > Greetings > > > Hello :) > > > I have been using a web application for one of my business functions. > > Besides the limitation of it being a web application (the web is NOT > > as consistent nor as quick as is considered 'normal' for those that > > like in rural areas) there are to many areas where I need to tweak the > > results. Therefore I would like to re-create this application. > > > on the web? I would rather it wasn't a web application. > > > At its base its somewhat like a recipe system. I plan on using > > postgresql for data holding and now what might be a good way of now > > doing the work. > > > i love postgresql :) I still haven't really used it much (except for setups and so on) but when I ran into it and was told that it was considered robust enough to use for serious financial systems as compared to the that time mysql (and yes I understand that mysql (and mariasql (sp?)) now does this much better) well I like 'good' tools! > > > Think that an item has from 5 to 50 of 50 information fields. I am > > adding a number of items together and specifying quantities of each > > item trying to achieve levels that I previously specified. > > The present application uses css and javascript and some other things > > that are on the 'home' (program owner's) server. > > Hopefully this description is clear enough and gives enough > > information so that suggestions might be forthcoming. (I asked an > > engineer friend and his suggestion was to use a monte carlo type of > > system but that would be several levels more complex that I think > > might be necessary for this application.) > > > i refuse to google "monte carlo type system" on duckduckgo.com... > please put me out of my misery and tell me what a monte carlo type > system is? ( I do love Monte Carlo also :) ) A monte carlo system sets up all the foundational parameters. So there is a formula for every variable. Every variable has its distribution and every distribution has its skewness and and and (it can get very very complicated). Then one defines the limits on the distribution (setting parameters) which is followed by an attempt at solving for all the unknowns given the area of input for each. Monte Carlo systems enable one to define the either hugely transitory or the undefinable. The random number part comes into where if variable 's' in item 'aaa' has a probable range of '2 to 7 ppm' with an 85% likelihood of being between (3.2 and 4.6 ppm) well now an number between 3.2 and 4.6 can be used for 's' value in item 'aaa'. Then the amount of item 'aaa' is entered and the totals of all listed values for all items are summed. The summed items are compared to the required minimums/maximums/desired values for each value. The overall outputs are compared and then adjustments are made to have a combined grouping that meets desired outcomes. Its a fairly straight forward process when one eliminates the variation possible in each of the variables. This elimination itself introduces new variables which are most often overcome by a planned excess. (I don't like spending more than I have to in trying to get the job done so I'm being quite a bit anal in the development of the tool.) Thanking you for your assistance. Dee

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