December 2017 - Talk - lists.gtalug.org

Re: [GTALUG] Programming languages (in comparison?) - -was Learn Swift for Apple/iOS. Learn ??? for Google/Android.
by o1bigtenor 19 Dec '17

19 Dec '17

On Sun, Dec 10, 2017 at 12:06 AM, D. Hugh Redelmeier via talk < talk(a)gtalug.org> wrote: > | From: ted leslie via talk <talk(a)gtalug.org> > > snip > > I spend most of my programming time in C. The next language I intend > to use is Rust. I like its ideas but proof of the pudding is in the > eating. The cases where I would recommend C for new projects are few > and far between. > So I know precious little about programming languages. I looked up 'Rust programming language'. Wikipedia (which can often be useful if not always totally accurate) listed it as: " . . . a systems programming language sponsored by Mozilla Research, which describes it as a "safe, concurrent, practical language," supporting functional and imperative-procedural paradigms. Rust is syntactically similar to C++, but its designers intend it to provide better memory safety while maintaining performance." OK - - - sponsored by Mozilla (AIUI that sort means that its their baby) and its to '. . . provide better memory safety . . ." . Well given how Mozilla products work for me - - - they don't really know anything about how to use memory. The only way I can keep using FF is to kill it every couple three days and then restart it. Somehow that isn't my idea of memory usage done well so if that's Rust - - - well then that's a total non-starter for me! Dee

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which fits in better with Gnome3 -- MATE or Cinnamon?
by D. Hugh Redelmeier 16 Dec '17

16 Dec '17

[Second try at posting this to the list.] In my world (mostly Fedora), the normal desktop is Gnome3, including its shell. Sometimes people ask me for a good old desktop, and I know the answer must be MATE or Cinnamon. Originally MATE was a fork of GNOME 2 and so I assumed that it would conflict with an already-installed Gnome 3 in some ways. Since Cinnamon was a fork of Gnome 3, I similarly assumed it would co-exist well with Gnome 3. I'm not sure of that any longer after reading the wikipedia pages. Some criteria for co-existance: - (pretty basic) can both be installed at one time. So no make conflicts. - (asperational) installed GNOME applications can run under the other shell - (asperational) installed applications for the other environment can run under the GNOME Shell Most comparisons are old. Here's a recent one, but it doesn't seem that useful: <https://www.slant.co/versus/1123/1125/~mate_vs_cinnamon>

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Laptop (very) weirdness
by Evan Leibovitch 16 Dec '17

16 Dec '17

My dual-boot Asus laptop now exhibits very strange behaviour. Under Windows 10 all is normal (well, its form of normal). Under Linux (current mint KDE) at work, all seems ok. At home, all hell breaks loose. The only difference is the wifi. After a normal login not only does networking not come up but the KDE menu bar doesn't display upon startup, all I have is the KDE wallpaper and a working xterm. Simple commands work but 'sudo bash' hangs. If I try to shutdown the system hangs. ALT-F1 gives me some kind of massive dump starting with the lines: BUG: unable to handle kernel NULL pointer dereference at 000000000000011c IP iul_num_add_sta+0x49e/0x720 [iwlmvm] Can anyone make sense of why simply using a different wifi router would cause this? An inability to connect is one thing, but this is nuts. (And people ask me why I hesitate to recommend desktop Linux to non-techies...) Happy to bring it in to Tuesday's meeting if anyone can help... - Evan (on mobile)

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Solimedia has free shipping for Mikrotik routers
by William Park 16 Dec '17

16 Dec '17

For those who are interested in Mikrotik routers, but were reluctant to pay $25 shipping... Solimedia.net now has free shipping. -- William Park <opengeometry(a)yahoo.ca>

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December 2017 meeting videos
by Alex Volkov 15 Dec '17

15 Dec '17

Hello everyone, December 2017 lightning talks videos are now available online. https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLUgE6dqIXiEsaCJxsVrAqCDlvNocRYUux The topics are: 1. Terraform by Myles Braithwaite 2. Remacs by Christopher Browne 3. Humble Pie by Trent Drake 4. OnePlus 5 Review by Evan Leibovitch 5. How Completing in CTF Made Me a Better Linux User by Myles Braithwaite 6. Facebook Prophet by Myles Braithwaite

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Learn Swift for Apple/iOS. Learn ??? for Google/Android.
by William Park 15 Dec '17

15 Dec '17

Hi all, I never understood tablet and phone apps market. But, through recent exposure at work, my interest has gone up a notch. If I want to develop some app for iPad and iPhone, then I would start learning Swift. It's new, and there may be opportunity for apps and jobs for early adopters. What do I learn, if I want to develop Android apps? Can I use C, and more importantly, is there C SDK for Android? -- William Park <opengeometry(a)yahoo.ca>

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which fits in better with Gnome3 -- MATE or Cinnamon?
by D. Hugh Redelmeier 15 Dec '17

15 Dec '17

In my world (mostly Fedora), the normal desktop is Gnome3, including its shell. Sometimes people ask me for a good old desktop, and I know the answer must be MATE or Cinnamon. Originally MATE was a fork of GNOME 2 and so I assumed that it would conflict with an already-installed Gnome 3 in some ways. Since Cinnamon was a fork of Gnome 3, I similarly assumed it would co-exist well with Gnome 3. I'm not sure of that any longer after reading the wikipedia pages. Some criteria for co-existance: - (pretty basic) can both be installed at one time. So no make conflicts. - (asperational) installed GNOME applications can run under the other shell - (asperational) installed applications for the other environment can run under the GNOME Shell Most comparisons are old. Here's a recent one, but it doesn't seem that useful: <https://www.slant.co/versus/1123/1125/~mate_vs_cinnamon>

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Was Re: [browser bitching] Now: considerations for user controlled browser segmentation
by o1bigtenor 15 Dec '17

15 Dec '17

Anyone who understands this topic better (and there are likely lots of you) please modify the subject! On Fri, Dec 15, 2017 at 7:59 AM, Steve Petrie, P.Eng. <apetrie(a)aspetrie.net> wrote: > Please see my comments below. > > With apologies for wordiness ... > > Steve > > ----- Original Message ----- From: o1bigtenor via talk >>>> To: Alvin Starr ; GTALUG Talk >>>> Sent: Tuesday, December 12, 2017 8:22 AM >>>> Subject: Re: [GTALUG] Programming languages (in comparison?) - -was >>>> Learn Swift for Apple/iOS. Learn ??? for Google/Android. >>>> >>>> On Mon, Dec 11, 2017 at 7:32 AM, Alvin Starr via talk <talk(a)gtalug.org> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>> On 12/11/2017 12:29 AM, Stewart C. Russell via talk wrote: >>>> >>>> On 2017-12-10 09:50 PM, o1bigtenor via talk wrote: >>>> >>>> <snip> >>>> >>>> FF57 is much cleaner than before, and is at least as fast as Chrome. You >>>> can quit FF, then have it restart with all your windows and tabs open. >>>> The clever part is, it'll only render that tab when it gets focus, so >>>> you could have hundreds of tabs open yet only a few loaded. So while I'm >>>> pretty sure it won't fit your needs of an entire Starbucks-load of pages >>>> in the one browser, it might get a little closer than FF <57. >>>> >>>> The trouble is that more and more services, systems and applications >>>> are using HTML as the interface. >>>> So you will find yourself with pages(tabs) open in your browser instead >>>> of applications open on your desktop. >>>> >>>> <snip> >>>> >>>> It sounds like I'm not the only one who has issues with browsers - - - >>>> thank you! >>>> >>>> Perhaps it is time that browsers were split into parts that do separate >>>> things, >>>> and things that could be managed by the USERS of those browsers rather >>>> than by the advertising (I'll use the word people although I would >>>> much rather >>>> not include them as such) people that think they do own my desktop. >>>> >>>> If the browser coders were actually listening to their users this would >>>> have >>>> already been happening! >>>> >>>> >>>> > It seems to me that there's a clue in the above proposal by Dee, quoted > here:: "Perhaps it is time that browsers were split into parts that do > separate things, and things that could be managed by the USERS of those > browsers rather than by the advertising". > > Dee complains when current browser technology is unable to cope gracefully > with his huge web page workload. > > I also suffer a browser resource contraint problem, but mine is due to my > outdated PC and Internet hookup. 1. use an extremely amcient operating > system (Win XP SP3 until I get moved to a new PC with debian Linux.), and > 2. the low bandwidth of my current Internet connection (approx. 46 Kbps > over landline telephone dial-up modem). > > My survivalist approach to using current browsers (FF and Comodo Dragon) > is to start the desired page (or maybe two or three pages, max.) loading, > and then I turn my attention to some other task, checking occasionally to > see if the page(s) has(ve) finished loading the vast quantities of: useless > eye-candy "rich" content, unwanted adware, great gobs of JavaScript crud, a > zillion videos I don't care to see, etc., etc. > > * * * > * * * > > It seems to me that the clue in Dee's pronouncement that I quoted, is to > take back control of the page load / display experience from the PROVIDER > of the page (often an arrogant rich titanic-scale oligarchic zillionaire > e.g amazon, google) , and give that control back to the CONSUMER of the > page. > > To my way of thinking, regaining browsing control and freedom, begins with > getting rid of the idea that the web browser is a monolithic opaque black > box that LOADS AND RENDERS A COMPLETE WEB PAGE AT A TIME. Currently, the > browser user is faced with an all-or-nothing choice. Either start a page > loading and wait until the browser has finished loading the entire page, or > don't try to view that page at all. > > I know that browsers do begin to render and display a page in parts, > before it has all been loaded and rendered internally by the browser. But > the designer of the browser controls the order of this progressive > rendering. And the order doesn't usually seem very helpful to me. > > * * * > * * * > > If we take Dee's idea: "it is time that browsers were split into parts > that do separate things, and things that could be managed by the USERS" as > a guiding principle, what can a browser developer do, to give more control > and power back to the user of the browser, and prevent the provider of th > page from dominating the page view esperience ?? > > WHAT I WOULD LIKE, IS TO BE ABLE TO CONTROL THE WEB BROWSER AT THE LEVEL > OF INDIVIDUAL ELEMENTS OF HTML ITSELF. I WOULD LIKE THE BROWSER START A > PAGE LOAD, BY PRESENTING TO ME, A COMPACT AND EASILY-NAVIGABLE > TREE-STRUCTURED LARGELY TEXTUAL REPRESENTATION OF THE WEB PAGE'S HTML > STRUCTURE. > > Then, I can scroll around to inspect all that nicely formatted and > coloured HTML textual rep, pick the parts of the page that I think would be > worthwhile actually loading and rendering, and set the browser loading only > my chosen few page parts. And I can ask for thumbprints of graphic > elemesnts that might seem interesting to me, And I can see still shots from > a huge video / movie, without loading/ playing the whole thing. And I can > hear sample audio clips. > > An even more advanced p'n'c browser, could synthesize "subversive" > versions of the original web page, guided by the browser user, The > "subversive": page would load the valuable nuggets, and leave behind > untouched all the useless intrusive BS that the tech titans like to think > is twisting our souls into consumerist puppets. > > A "subversive" p'n'c-generated web page, would be like the grumpy nasty > bitchy smelly customer with the bulging shopping buggy, who barges up to > the counter of the fast food outlet, and demands an X-large Diet Coke WITH > NO ICE. In other words, I will take the good stuff ONLY, and leave all the > BS to the next (and more conformist / compliant / wimpsterist) customer. > > * * * > * * * > > No doubt, the "dream" of a navigable tree-structured pick'n'choose (p'n'c) > list rep of an HTML page would be complicated to implement. > > And it would need to provide plernty of of hints and help so naive users > would be able to understand the HTML in simplistic terms. > > Some regexp-driven highlighting could help the user in their pick'n'choose > navigation, too. And the p'n'c browser would come pre-loaded with regexps > that isolate and exclude lots of recognizeable adware / snoopware crap and > junk. Google and Amazon, etc. will ABSOLUTELY LOATHE the p'n'c browser and > that will be a VERY GOOD THING :) > > Preach it brother. I do NOT like my online life being controlled as much as it is and that controlling appears to be headed for greater levels (see FCC removal of net neutrality). > * * * > * * * > > There are text-mode web browsers out there that actually have no GUI, they > work at a command line prompt. But I decided I couldn't use them because: > either they offer no Win XP-compatible version, or they are not up to date > with current HTML technology. > > But no doubt, most of the basic building blocks of a p'n'c browser are > already available in open source libraries. So, the task of building the > p'n'c browser would be more of an integration challenge than a greenfield > coding challenge. > > An interesting axample of the kind of technololgy that could be harnessed > in a p'n'c browser, crossed my eyes today: > === > Headless Chrome and the Puppeteer Library for Scraping and Testing the > Web Wednesday 29 November > http://www.i-programmer.info/news/87/11344.html > > With the advent of Single Page Applications, scraping pages for > information as well as running automated user interaction tests has become > much harder due to its highly dynamic nature. The solution? Headless Chrome > and the Puppeteer library. > ... > There's just one caveat. Since CDP only works with Chromium, Chrome and > other Blink-based browsers, so does Puppeteer. If you require more than > that, then sticking to Selenium and its WebDriver API still remains the > best option.. > === > > The Selenium WebDriver API might be a useful code base to be considered, > in the design of the p'n'c "subversive incremental load" browser ... > > My 2 cents worth. OK - - - so any suggestions out there on how to achieve this, at least IMO worthy goal? Dee

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ServiceNow Developer with Javascript looking for a Contract?
by Bob Jonkman 13 Dec '17

13 Dec '17

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Hi: Someone is looking for ServiceNow Javascript developer: > I have 4 ServiceNow Developer positions (3 different contracts and > one FTE) [...] > They must have developed or enchanced the Servicenow application > using Javascript.. Not someone who has received messages from it, > however has actually worked with it's source code! The Contracts > close EOD today sorry to rush.. If that's you, please contact Glenn Steinberg <glenns(a)glennpartners.com> before the end of business day today. - --Bob. - -- Bob Jonkman <bjonkman(a)sobac.com> Phone: +1-519-635-9413 SOBAC Microcomputer Services http://sobac.com/sobac/ Software --- Office & Business Automation --- Consulting GnuPG Fngrprnt:04F7 742B 8F54 C40A E115 26C2 B912 89B0 D2CC E5EA -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2 Comment: Ensure confidentiality, authenticity, non-repudiability iEYEARECAAYFAloxfMYACgkQuRKJsNLM5eq8bgCfW9iQuexmsJr+ApAb32j81Szx +FoAoJjMR31k9NMIH4GlNg/iKWqycqb8 =WLoM -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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Links from my presentations last night
by Myles Braithwaite 👾 13 Dec '17

13 Dec '17

Terraform: * Presentation: <https://github.com/myles/2017-12-12-terraform/blob/master/2017-12-12-terraf…> * Example: <https://github.com/myles/2017-12-12-terraform/blob/master/example.tf> * Homepage: <https://www.terraform.io/> * Terraform Ansible Provision: <https://github.com/jonmorehouse/terraform-provisioner-ansible> How Completing in CTF Made Me a Better Linux User: * <https://dc416.com/> - The user group for InfoSec people that runs CTFs. * <https://www.vulnhub.com/> - VulnHub is a place to download VMs to get experience in digital security, computer software & network administration. * <https://ctftime.org/event/list/> - List of CTF events online in IRL. Facebook Prophet: * Homepage: <https://facebook.github.io/prophet/> * My Example Jupyter Notebook: <https://github.com/myles/notebooks/blob/master/Random/2017-11-29-historical…>

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