December 2003 - Legacy - lists.gtalug.org

Question about the meeting
by davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg＠public.gmane.org 08 Dec '03

08 Dec '03

S P Arif Sahari Wibowo wrote: >Hi! > >I have a newbie questions. > >As scheduled in the website, TLUG will have meeting tomorrow (Dec 9). >What usually happen in the meeting? > > 30 - 50 furry geeks (and, occasionally, a bright looking young lady) gather in a lecture room. If there's a guest speaker, and he's new to *nix, the group will baffle him with 147 different ways to do anything. If the guest is a linux expert, it is the n00bs that will be baffled. There will be jabs at SCO and Micro$oft, and countless inside jokes with varying levels of hilarity. Problems will be solved, and new ones uncovered, contacts will be made. The guys in the first two rows will do 80% of the talking, have done everything, could store data on a microwave oven and network it to the toaster. Most of the group will just listen with an expression of interest, or boredom, or a headache, it's hard to tell. Afterwards, if the prevailing mood is thirsty, the group will reconvene at a campus pub for frosty jugs and good company. See you there. >How the best way to go there? > > TTC to College & McCaul, then cut north into the University grounds.. .. ask a fresh faced student how to get to the Galbraith building. >Is there any reasonable parking around the place? >How much is the parking? > > You can park along Kings College circle, I think it'll be $10 - $12 >Thanks! > > > you're welcome, djp -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml

1 0

*Really* bad week for SCO
by joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg＠public.gmane.org 08 Dec '03

08 Dec '03

>From Groklaw, the requirements for SCO, as put forward by the judge, to not only identify the *exact* items which it claims are improperly copied IP, but *this* little bit, which I would give anything to see them try and show: "efforts to maintain secrecy or confidentiality of the [alleged trade secrets]...." LOL! That should be kinda tough, considering they released those "trade secrets" in their own version of Linux... :-D I think it's a good time to start selling any SCO stock you own... Link: http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=20031206151020872 -- JoeHill ++ ICQ # 280779813 Registered Linux user #282046 Homepage: www.orderinchaos.org +++++++++++++++++++++++++++ "The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness."-- John Kenneth Galbraith -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml

1 0

Question about the meeting
by lists-jiQtrEI3vUxWk0Htik3J/w＠public.gmane.org 08 Dec '03

08 Dec '03

Hi! I have a newbie questions. As scheduled in the website, TLUG will have meeting tomorrow (Dec 9). What usually happen in the meeting? How the best way to go there? Is there any reasonable parking around the place? How much is the parking? Thanks! -- Stephan Paul Arif Sahari Wibowo _____ _____ _____ _____ /____ /____/ /____/ /____ _____/ / / / _____/ http://www.arifsaha.com/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml

1 0

volunteers need to do some Python programming
by emir-rdkfGonbjUTTQjIoRn/dzw＠public.gmane.org 08 Dec '03

08 Dec '03

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 08/12/2003 13:48, William Park wrote: > On Mon, Dec 08, 2003 at 12:36:19PM -0500, Mel Wilson wrote: > >>In article <20031208144640.9A55E1ECB86-pwyU32sTfCqP7boJH+kiu+TW4wlIGRCZ at public.gmane.org>, >>bob findlay <fcsoft-3Emkkp+1Olsmp8TqCH86vg at public.gmane.org> wrote: >> >>>[ ... ] >>>If you are interested in volunteering your talents to this task please >>>contact me off list and we can discuss what I had in mind. >> >>I would, but your account is rejecting mail. > > > God is punishing him for uttering Python in vain... :-) Maybe the punishment is for teaching Tcl/Tk... - -- Emir. "Politicians, like diapers, have to be changed frequently. And for the very same reason." -- Anonymous -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.3 (MingW32) iD8DBQE/1OwluSy542G+Z7QRAv/5AKCr7z4LR6n6FLgD9U4fs9EUMWGI1ACfdfzH Jwg0tCNgBevTaYBFjs7gfD8= =86FW -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml

1 0

M$ to license FAT
by jmm-TU2q2He6PgRlD5gtYiU6kEEOCMrvLtNR＠public.gmane.org 08 Dec '03

08 Dec '03

On Mon, Dec 08, 2003 at 01:02:17PM -0500, Robert Brockway wrote: > On Mon, 8 Dec 2003, John Macdonald wrote: > > Does anyone have any details of exactly what is > > patented and when the patent(s) expire? > > Patents expire when Mickey Mouse is no longer profitable, or is that > copyrights, I can't remember. That's copyright - control of making a copy of a work of art. Patents cover an idea, not just a particular work; they last for 20 years or so. (I think it's 19 years, with some variation in the details if there is a long time between when the patent gets filed and when it is approved.) The patent trades a monopoly on the idea against full public disclosure of the details of the idea so that once the patent expires, the public can make full use of the knowledge. One example in the computer industry is the RSA encryption algorithm. It was patented - the patent expired in 2000. The underlying concept for public key encryption had also been patented, but that more basic patent expired even earlier. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml

1 0

M$ to license FAT
by robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy＠public.gmane.org 08 Dec '03

08 Dec '03

On Mon, 8 Dec 2003, Tim Writer wrote: > And Linux already offers file systems that are more appropriate for this type > of use. JFFS2, for example, includes wear leveling to minimize wear which can > cause certain types of flash devices to fail much earlier than expected. > IIRC, FAT stores critical information (the file allocation table and a single > backup) in a fixed area of the file system. When it fails due to wear, > you're toast, even if the majority of the device is in good shape. Got that right. I used to have dozens (maybe hundreds) of floppies that would fail a format under MS-DOS (ie, FAT12) but would accept an EXT2FS just fine. Sector 0 was dying on the floppies iirc and EXT2 would just work around the problem whereas FAT12 could not. > > All the manufacturers need to do is supply the filesystem driver when they > > install the s/w on the MS-Windows. Adding drivers all over the place is > > part of the MS-Windows culture. > > In fact, many (most?) such products already come with software from the > manufacturer, even if it's not stricly necessary. Exactly so bundling a little more would hardly be something the manufacturer would worry about. Rob -- Robert Brockway B.Sc. email: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org, zzbrock at uqconnect.net Linux counter project ID #16440 (http://counter.li.org) "The earth is but one country and mankind its citizens" -Baha'u'llah -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml

1 0

M$ to license FAT
by taavi-LbuTpDkqzNzXI80/IeQp7B2eb7JE58TQ＠public.gmane.org 08 Dec '03

08 Dec '03

On Mon, Dec 08, 2003 at 02:10:15PM -0500, Tim Writer wrote: > And Linux already offers file systems that are more appropriate for this type > of use. JFFS2, for example, includes wear leveling to minimize wear which can > cause certain types of flash devices to fail much earlier than expected. > IIRC, FAT stores critical information (the file allocation table and a single > backup) in a fixed area of the file system. When it fails due to wear, > you're toast, even if the majority of the device is in good shape. Most (all?) of the standard Flash memory devices these days have onboard controllers which can detect failing sectors in the flash memory, and will reroute data to spare sectors, much as HDs do these days. Of course, if the filesystem can help out, all the better. :) > In fact, many (most?) such products already come with software from the > manufacturer, even if it's not stricly necessary. But do you want to encourage this behaviour? And how many distros come with JFFS2 drivers? Is it even part of the standard kernel source (it doesn't look familar to me; then again, I haven't been looking for it). There is still the question of which would cost more: VFAT licensing (if even required), or the writing and maintenance of a driver. We might be happy if they came out with some random open source Windows driver (that couldn't very well be GPL, now, could it), but others might get a "bad" feeling about it. -- taa /*eof*/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml

1 0

M$ to license FAT
by tim-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ＠public.gmane.org 08 Dec '03

08 Dec '03

Robert Brockway <robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org> writes: > On Mon, 8 Dec 2003, John Macdonald wrote: > > > That's fine for a dual boot Linux getting access to > > the licensed MS file system, but if another poster > > was right about USD memory disks and such devices > > using FAT, the "damage" is that you used a Linux > > instead of buying Windows to read the USB device. > > Maybe the manufacturers of these devices will change to another filesytem > (they can take their pick from many choices available in Linux & BSD) in > order to avoid paying the licencing fees. I was initially thinking about > Linux's implementation of the Minix1 FS because it is lite but it is > limited to 64MB iirc, which is already too small for these device. Keep in mind that Linux is rapidly becoming the embedded platform of choice. How many manufacturers of consumer electronics products are already using Linux in their devices? How many will be making the transition soon? And Linux already offers file systems that are more appropriate for this type of use. JFFS2, for example, includes wear leveling to minimize wear which can cause certain types of flash devices to fail much earlier than expected. IIRC, FAT stores critical information (the file allocation table and a single backup) in a fixed area of the file system. When it fails due to wear, you're toast, even if the majority of the device is in good shape. > All the manufacturers need to do is supply the filesystem driver when they > install the s/w on the MS-Windows. Adding drivers all over the place is > part of the MS-Windows culture. In fact, many (most?) such products already come with software from the manufacturer, even if it's not stricly necessary. -- tim writer <tim-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org> starnix inc. 905.771.0017 ext. 225 thornhill, ontario, canada http://www.starnix.com professional linux services & products -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml

1 0

M$ to license FAT
by opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA＠public.gmane.org 08 Dec '03

08 Dec '03

On Mon, Dec 08, 2003 at 01:02:17PM -0500, Robert Brockway wrote: > Maybe the manufacturers of these devices will change to another > filesytem (they can take their pick from many choices available in > Linux & BSD) in order to avoid paying the licencing fees. Wishful thinking... If you're selling $500 digital camera, would you be complaining that you have to pay $0.25 license fee (or whatever it is)? -- William Park, Open Geometry Consulting, <opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org> Linux solution for data management and processing. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml

1 0

volunteers need to do some Python programming
by opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA＠public.gmane.org 08 Dec '03

08 Dec '03

On Mon, Dec 08, 2003 at 12:36:19PM -0500, Mel Wilson wrote: > In article <20031208144640.9A55E1ECB86-pwyU32sTfCqP7boJH+kiu+TW4wlIGRCZ at public.gmane.org>, > bob findlay <fcsoft-3Emkkp+1Olsmp8TqCH86vg at public.gmane.org> wrote: > >[ ... ] > >If you are interested in volunteering your talents to this task please > >contact me off list and we can discuss what I had in mind. > > I would, but your account is rejecting mail. God is punishing him for uttering Python in vain... :-) -- William Park, Open Geometry Consulting, <opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org> Linux solution for data management and processing. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml

1 0