December 2003 - Legacy - lists.gtalug.org

*Really* bad week for SCO
by james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA＠public.gmane.org 09 Dec '03

09 Dec '03

They're probably allowing bounce time. CLIFFORD ILKAY wrote: > At 23:52 08/12/2003 -0500, Gary Layng wrote: > >> - kiting is illegal. > > [snip] > > ... unless you are a bank:) I have never bought the lame excuses that > banks give as to why it takes five business days for cheques that are > deposited to clear versus why cheques the funds for cheques that I write > are out of the account within 24 hours. Even for a cheque drawn on the > same bank, in the same city, the banks claim it can take up to five > business days for it to clear. Out of town or out of country cheques > take longer of course. I was reading something recently about how the > banks intend to do away with shuffling paper in the form of cheques and > move to electronic clearing to speed up the process. It is about time! > > Regards, > > Clifford Ilkay > Dinamis Corporation > 3266 Yonge Street, Suite 1419 > Toronto, Ontario > Canada M4N 3P6 > > Tel: 416-410-3326 > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml

1 0

M$ to license FAT
by james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA＠public.gmane.org 09 Dec '03

09 Dec '03

Taavi Burns wrote: > On Tue, Dec 09, 2003 at 11:47:05AM -0500, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > >>That would be DOS 7 (aka win95). No version prior to Win95 (OR if you >>ran NT) could do long filenames on FAT. I think OS/2 had a way to do it >>though. > > > IIRC OS/2 could only do long filenames with HPFS. Your DOS apps > could access HPFS files through what looked like a network share, > but long filenames would be totally masked. It was suboptimal, > but possibly better than allowing two filenames (one explicit, one > implicit) for one file. I believe OS/2 supported long file names on the desktop, but had chopped names on the FAT file system. The long file name was stored as an extended attribute in a file called (IIRC) "EA DATA.SF". > > There's a very happy "feature" of VFAT. > > Create a file "Thisisaverylongfile2.txt". Note that the short > version of this comes out as "THISIS~1.TXT". > > Create a file "Thisisaverylongfile1.txt". Note that the short > version of this comes out as "THISIS~2.TXT". > > Now "del *1.TXT" and watch BOTH FILES DISSAPEAR. > > Did you really mean to do that? > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml

1 0

M$ to license FAT
by james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA＠public.gmane.org 09 Dec '03

09 Dec '03

Taavi Burns wrote: > On Mon, Dec 08, 2003 at 10:42:21PM -0500, cbbrowne-HInyCGIudOg at public.gmane.org wrote: > >>What is VERY interesting is that none of the patents in question have to >>do with the filesystem. They ALL have to do with the way DOS 6 started > > > DOS provided long filename support? Not that I remember. > It all started with Windows 95. > Wasn't W95 just a pretty shell on DOS 6? ;-) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml

1 0

Kiting: ( was *Really* bad week for SCO)
by james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA＠public.gmane.org 09 Dec '03

09 Dec '03

Another scam was to get non personalized deposit slips for your account, and slip them in with the generic deposit slips at the bank counter. An unsuspecting customer might use your slip, when making a deposit, but the money gets put in your account. That's one of the reasons the 2 types of deposit slips have a completely different layout. Gary Layng wrote: > That isn't precisely a kiting scheme, but it's pretty close. It's actually > a computer fraud case. It depended on the technology of the time (the > 1970's, I believe). He had a printer friend print cheques with the logo of > the New York bank, but the bank identifier in the MICR code at the bottom > was for a California bank. Those cheques went back and forth between the > two Federal Reserve districts for months before the scheme was uncovered, by > which time the perpetrator was long gone. > > Classic kiting is what brought down broker E.F. Hutton (remember their ads, > "When E.F. Hutton speaks, people listen"?). This company was extremely old, > dating back to before the 1907 California earthquake, and had a great > reputation for honesty - at least until they got caught. It died > ignominiously in the early 1980's. The guys running the scheme within the > firm would scour the States for obscure little banks where the cheques would > remain in the float as long as possible. It was quite the scandal at the > time. > > > His Lordship Mayhem > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org [mailto:owner-tlug at ss.org] On Behalf Of Peter > Hiscocks > Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2003 12:04 AM > To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org > Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Kiting: ( was *Really* bad week for SCO) > > > I heard of one kiting scheme that was finally discovered when the magnetic > ink on the cheque wore down to the point that it could no longer be read by > the cheque-reading machines and had to be handled by a human. Apparently the > cheque had been going back and forth across the continental US for several > weeks before that happened. > > Peter > > > On Mon, Dec 08, 2003 at 11:52:49PM -0500, Gary Layng wrote: > >>I think I can google something up, but for now: >> - kiting is illegal. The scheme depends on how long it takes cheques to >>clear the central clearing facility that all banks share. Imagine you > > have > >>two bank accounts with, say, $50 in each. You cut a cheque from your >>account in Bank 1 for, say, $5 million, and deposit it into the account > > you > >>have in Bank 2. At the same time you also cut a cheque from the Bank 2 >>account and deposit it into the account in Bank 1. When the cheques > > clear, > >>you have enough money to cover them. You get the interest on the $10 >>million dollars you had for two-three days in the two accounts. >> - Margin is perfectly legal. "On margin" means that you borrowed money >>from your broker to buy shares. Typically the broker lends you up to > > about > >>75% of the value of the shares. If the value of the shares drops 25% you >>get a "margin call" and they can sell the shares. You're leveraging your >>potential capital gains by borrowing the money, but it's quite dangerous. >> >> >>His Lordship Mayhem >> >>-----Original Message----- >>From: owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org [mailto:owner-tlug at ss.org] On Behalf Of Byron > > Sonne > >>Sent: Monday, December 08, 2003 7:30 PM >>To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org >>Subject: Re: [TLUG]: *Really* bad week for SCO >> >> >>>its stock price may jump to $50, and if you hold -100 of them, you'll >>>now have to pay $5000 to close out your position, and you're in the hole >> >>big >> >>>time. >> >>Does anyone have a link to a site or some docs that explain, to a putz >>like me, what all this various financial wizardry is? >> >>I've seen shorting briefly explained here, but what about kiting, >>selling on margin, etc, and various other techniques and scams? I'd like >>to know but I don't have the inclination to read entire books about this >>stuff, or become a CPA or something. >> >>Later, >>B >>-- >>The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org >>TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >>How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml >> >>-- >>The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org >>TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >>How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml

1 0

Kiting: ( was *Really* bad week for SCO)
by james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA＠public.gmane.org 09 Dec '03

09 Dec '03

That doesn't make sense. A cheque is returned to the home bank as quickly as practical, either directly, through a clearing house or via 3rd party banks. Once it's there, it stays unless bounced back. There's no reason for it to keep making the rounds. Kiting requires issuing a series of checques to cover the previous ones. Peter Hiscocks wrote: > I heard of one kiting scheme that was finally discovered when the magnetic > ink on the cheque wore down to the point that it could no longer be read by > the cheque-reading machines and had to be handled by a human. Apparently the > cheque had been going back and forth across the continental US for several > weeks before that happened. > > Peter > > > On Mon, Dec 08, 2003 at 11:52:49PM -0500, Gary Layng wrote: > >>I think I can google something up, but for now: >> - kiting is illegal. The scheme depends on how long it takes cheques to >>clear the central clearing facility that all banks share. Imagine you have >>two bank accounts with, say, $50 in each. You cut a cheque from your >>account in Bank 1 for, say, $5 million, and deposit it into the account you >>have in Bank 2. At the same time you also cut a cheque from the Bank 2 >>account and deposit it into the account in Bank 1. When the cheques clear, >>you have enough money to cover them. You get the interest on the $10 >>million dollars you had for two-three days in the two accounts. >> - Margin is perfectly legal. "On margin" means that you borrowed money >>from your broker to buy shares. Typically the broker lends you up to about >>75% of the value of the shares. If the value of the shares drops 25% you >>get a "margin call" and they can sell the shares. You're leveraging your >>potential capital gains by borrowing the money, but it's quite dangerous. >> >> >>His Lordship Mayhem >> >>-----Original Message----- >>From: owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org [mailto:owner-tlug at ss.org] On Behalf Of Byron Sonne >>Sent: Monday, December 08, 2003 7:30 PM >>To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org >>Subject: Re: [TLUG]: *Really* bad week for SCO >> >> >>>its stock price may jump to $50, and if you hold -100 of them, you'll >>>now have to pay $5000 to close out your position, and you're in the hole >> >>big >> >>>time. >> >>Does anyone have a link to a site or some docs that explain, to a putz >>like me, what all this various financial wizardry is? >> >>I've seen shorting briefly explained here, but what about kiting, >>selling on margin, etc, and various other techniques and scams? I'd like >>to know but I don't have the inclination to read entire books about this >>stuff, or become a CPA or something. >> >>Later, >>B >>-- >>The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org >>TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >>How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml >> >>-- >>The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org >>TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >>How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml

1 0

munged 8.3 filenames --> RE:Re: M$ to license FAT
by pegasoft-40qIwYH5687wQaAp52fGBB2eb7JE58TQ＠public.gmane.org 09 Dec '03

09 Dec '03

Hi Guys, Type in c:\dir /x under Win2k and get the 8.3 munged filename!! Dan -- Dan Braun - PegaSoft Canada / CityTV danb.nospam-iRg7kjdsKiH3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org -----Original Message----- From: owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org [mailto:owner-tlug at ss.org] On Behalf Of Chris Aitken Taavi Burns wrote: It's moot, but I think it was the Windows 95 version of DOS, which stored long filenames with the 8.3 convention. So whateverfile.txt is stored in W95 DOS as whatev~1.txt Chris -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml

1 0

*Really* bad week for SCO
by clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ＠public.gmane.org 09 Dec '03

09 Dec '03

At 23:52 08/12/2003 -0500, Gary Layng wrote: > - kiting is illegal. [snip] ... unless you are a bank:) I have never bought the lame excuses that banks give as to why it takes five business days for cheques that are deposited to clear versus why cheques the funds for cheques that I write are out of the account within 24 hours. Even for a cheque drawn on the same bank, in the same city, the banks claim it can take up to five business days for it to clear. Out of town or out of country cheques take longer of course. I was reading something recently about how the banks intend to do away with shuffling paper in the form of cheques and move to electronic clearing to speed up the process. It is about time! Regards, Clifford Ilkay Dinamis Corporation 3266 Yonge Street, Suite 1419 Toronto, Ontario Canada M4N 3P6 Tel: 416-410-3326 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml

1 0

M$ to license FAT
by taavi-LbuTpDkqzNzXI80/IeQp7B2eb7JE58TQ＠public.gmane.org 09 Dec '03

09 Dec '03

On Tue, Dec 09, 2003 at 01:04:09PM -0500, Chris Aitken wrote: > Taavi Burns wrote: > > DOS provided long filename support? Not that I remember. > > It all started with Windows 95. > > It's moot, but I think it was the Windows 95 version of DOS, which stored > long filenames with the 8.3 convention. So whateverfile.txt is stored in > W95 DOS as whatev~1.txt Yes, as Chris said, MS-DOS 7. It's not really clear which is which, though, since you can access files by their long or short names in both DOS 7 and Win9x. They both store both names; you can't put long filenames on FAT without having an 8.3 version, too. -- taa /*eof*/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml

1 0

M$ to license FAT
by cbbrowne-HInyCGIudOg＠public.gmane.org 09 Dec '03

09 Dec '03

> On Mon, Dec 08, 2003 at 10:42:21PM -0500, cbbrowne-HInyCGIudOg at public.gmane.org wrote: > > What is VERY interesting is that none of the patents in question have to > > do with the filesystem. They ALL have to do with the way DOS 6 started > > DOS provided long filename support? Not that I remember. > It all started with Windows 95. Oops, my bad. DOS 7. (Which was not marketed under that name, though if you looked for the VERSION, that's what you'd see...) -- "cbbrowne","@","cbbrowne.com" http://www3.sympatico.ca/cbbrowne/spreadsheets.html This less-than-witty quote forces Emacs into -*-Quip-*- mode. I may be wise, witty, and wonderful, but if I have a custom mode for this, I obviously spend too much time manipulating fortune messages... -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml

1 0

M$ to license FAT
by taavi-LbuTpDkqzNzXI80/IeQp7B2eb7JE58TQ＠public.gmane.org 09 Dec '03

09 Dec '03

On Tue, Dec 09, 2003 at 11:47:05AM -0500, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > That would be DOS 7 (aka win95). No version prior to Win95 (OR if you > ran NT) could do long filenames on FAT. I think OS/2 had a way to do it > though. IIRC OS/2 could only do long filenames with HPFS. Your DOS apps could access HPFS files through what looked like a network share, but long filenames would be totally masked. It was suboptimal, but possibly better than allowing two filenames (one explicit, one implicit) for one file. There's a very happy "feature" of VFAT. Create a file "Thisisaverylongfile2.txt". Note that the short version of this comes out as "THISIS~1.TXT". Create a file "Thisisaverylongfile1.txt". Note that the short version of this comes out as "THISIS~2.TXT". Now "del *1.TXT" and watch BOTH FILES DISSAPEAR. Did you really mean to do that? -- taa /*eof*/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml

2 2