December 2003 - Legacy - lists.gtalug.org

Exchange replacement, again...
by kcozens-qazKcTl6WRFWk0Htik3J/w＠public.gmane.org 13 Dec '03

13 Dec '03

At 01:04 AM 12/13/2003 -0500, Madison Kelly wrote: > Can anyone recommend a method, how-to or general pointer to an > application or collection of applications that would allow for providing > similar services that Exchange does except on Linux? Obviously > compatibility with MS Outlook would be nice however that is not a > requirement is there is a windows client (Mozilla?) that can access these > services. A Linux-based replacement for Exchange has been done. It was described in an issue of Linux Journal within the past year. I don't remember the specific issue off-hand. The article explains what was done and may have links to what you need to set it up. Cheers! Kevin. (http://www.interlog.com/~kcozens/) Owner of Elecraft K2 #2172 |"What are we going to do today, Borg?" E-mail:kcozens at interlog dot com|"Same thing we always do, Pinkutus: Packet:ve3syb-XXPEJ3/fxIc at public.gmane.org#con.on.ca.na| Try to assimilate the world!" #include <disclaimer/favourite> | -Pinkutus & the Borg -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml

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OT: keyboard layouts
by henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg＠public.gmane.org 13 Dec '03

13 Dec '03

On Sat, 13 Dec 2003, Taavi Burns wrote: > > Similar tests, on a smaller scale, have been done by modern ergonomics > > researchers. Same uninspiring results -- at most, a small advantage. > > But if it's a distinct, statistically valid advantage, is there any good > reason to avoid learning, using, and/or promoting the use of a marginally > superior layout? Mainly, the very high costs of conversion, including a lengthy period of operating both. As with a number of other things, having everybody do things the same reasonably-good way is much more important than finding the absolutely optimal way. > what does a Maltron layout look like? Is it even physically similar to > the keyboards we use today? Only very loosely. It's closer to the "natural" keyboards. On each end, there is a sort of shallow bowl of finger keys. Below and inward from that, tilted backward, on each side is a small array of thumb keys (which includes assorted shifts and movement keys, the space key, and the E key). In the center above the thumb arrays is a numeric keypad -- accessible to either hand -- and some other odds and ends. It's a very sculptured layout with a very different key pattern, a full redesign rather than a trivial remapping of an ordinary keyboard. There's a picture at <http://www.keytools-ergonomics.co.uk/keyboards/maltron.asp>, although it's not quite large enough to make out all the key markings. (Google on "Maltron keyboard" for more references.) You might perhaps be able to come up with a vaguely Maltron-ish remapping of the standard layout. The thumb areas would be tricky. > Perhaps Dvorak is a step in the right direction, > if only as a stepping stone, showing peole that There Is More Than One > Way To Do It. The cost of conversion, however, suggests that at most one switchover is acceptable. > Don't forget that there are also left- and right-handed Dvorak layouts > which I think would be unarguably superior for one-handed typists. They > use four levels of letters, with the numbers all off to one side. <http://www.keytools-ergonomics.co.uk/advice/onehanded.asp> concludes that unless a one-handed typist was previously a fast two-handed typist, the overwhelmingly best choice is one-handed typing on a standard Qwerty keyboard, simply because it avoids needing special accommodations for that one person. (And if he or she was a fast two-handed typist, there are one-handed variants of Qwerty which may be preferred.) In any case, if you're buying a custom keyboard, there are one-handed Maltron keyboards which are probably preferable over anything Dvorak. Henry Spencer henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml

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Firewall script for NAT server to protect the smtp
by efmccurdy-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA＠public.gmane.org 13 Dec '03

13 Dec '03

>>>>> "Teddy" == Teddy Mills <teddymills-VFlxZYho3OA at public.gmane.org> writes: Teddy> This statement in the script gives a chain/target/match Teddy> error. /sbin/iptables -A INPUT -m state -p tcp --state Teddy> ESTABLISHED,RELATED -j ACCEPT Usually that means the the kernel does'nt have the neccessary ipfilter options set. I don't know how to get an error message that specifies exactly which options. I'd check the Netfilter Configuration section of the kernel config, eg CONFIG_IP_NF_MATCH_STATE. If they are configured as modules, you may need to use modprobe to load them earlier in the firewall script. Regards, Ed -- Edward F. McCurdy, | efmccurdy-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml

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OT: keyboard layouts
by phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w＠public.gmane.org 13 Dec '03

13 Dec '03

Since this comes up from time to time (like most religious wars ;), there might be a web reference to the tests that Henry is referring to, done in 1950s by the US government's General Services Administration. Has anyone ever seen such a thing? > The Dvorak typists never did substantially better than the Qwerty group. > Similar tests, on a smaller scale, have been done by modern ergonomics > researchers. Same uninspiring results -- at most, a small advantage. Any reference for this? I can get most papers, however obscure, through our inter-library loan service at Ryerson. One criterion the GSA would apply to this test would be 'is it worthwhile to change our training materials and our typewriters to obtain this marginal advantage'? (I assume we're talking typewriters rather than computer keyboards in the 50's). So although there might be some benefit, it was not deemed worth the costs. For someone learning a keyboard on their own, the cost-benefit might be different. Further, I would assume this performance metric is 'speed'. It would be interesting to test for 'effort', but that's a lot more difficult to quantify. The other metric would be 'ease of learning', which would be relatively easy to measure. The nice thing about this issue in 2003 is that people are relatively free to choose. That wasn't true in the era of manual typewriters, when manufacturers generally produced only the Querty keyboard. Peter On Sat, Dec 13, 2003 at 01:03:05AM -0500, Henry Spencer wrote: > On Sat, 13 Dec 2003, Anton Markov wrote: > > I think the best test for Dvorak vs. Qwerty would be to have two people > > who have never used a keyboard (yes, there are such people) of about the > > same age, background, command of the english language, etc. to learn > > touch-typing (in say 1 month) and have periodic speed contests > > throughout the period. That would be a real un-bias (if there is such a > > thing) test. > > More or less this test was done, with careful controls, in the 1950s by > the US government's General Services Administration. They retrained > existing typists rather than picking keyboard-naive people, but they were > careful to keep it an equal competition -- for example, when the Dvorak > typists got up to their previous speed level, all further training they > got was matched by extra training for the non-retrained Qwerty control > group. (Training and practice will improve typing speed, so you have to > make sure both groups get similar levels of it. And you have to control > carefully for individual differences in ability, which is one reason why > it's convenient to choose people whose performance as typists is already > somewhat calibrated. This test was generally much more carefully and > fairly run than Dvorak's badly-slanted tests.) > > The Dvorak typists never did substantially better than the Qwerty group. > > That test largely ended interest in the Dvorak layout. > > Similar tests, on a smaller scale, have been done by modern ergonomics > researchers. Same uninspiring results -- at most, a small advantage. > > Folks, this is not some unexplored mystery; such careful, fair trials have > been done a number of times in the last 50 years. The only reason the > issue keeps coming up is that True Believers in the Dvorak layout insist > that all those negative results must be wrong. > > By the way, although the early typewriter layouts were not done with the > benefit of modern human-factors knowledge, there *were* quite a variety of > them -- Qwerty was far from the only choice -- and organized speed > competitions were common and got serious attention from customers. One > reason why Qwerty survived is that it consistently did fairly well in > those. It *is* a reasonably good layout, if far from perfect. > > > Any other keyboard layouts out there? > > The Maltron keyboard really is what the Dvorak keyboard pretends to be -- > a new keyboard layout designed for electronic keyboards and based on > modern ergonomics. It is, alas, hard to find and expensive; it's mostly > marketed to people with RSI and similar medical problems. > > Henry Spencer > henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -- Peter D. Hiscocks Department of Electrical and Computer Engineering Ryerson University, 350 Victoria Street, Toronto, Ontario, M5B 2K3, Canada Phone: (416) 979-5000 Ext 6109 Fax: (416) 979-5280 Email: phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org URL: http://www.ee.ryerson.ca/~phiscock -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml

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exchange replacement
by linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ＠public.gmane.org 13 Dec '03

13 Dec '03

Hey, I made the same mistake when I first started looking. Be kind, huh! :) Madison cbbrowne-HInyCGIudOg at public.gmane.org wrote: >>I think what you want is Ximiam Connector. >> >>http://www.ximian.com/products/connector/ > > > Ximian Connector allows you to connect Ximian Evolution to a Microsoft > Exchange server. > > The point of the exercise was to _replace_ Microsoft Exchange with > something that runs on Linux, not to replace the mail client with one > that MANDATES buying Exchange from Microsoft. > > What you have just suggested gets suggested quite often, and I expect > that there is someone at Microsoft laughing maniacally at this. > "Someone else asked for an Exchange replacement, and was pointed to a > product that will lead to them paying even more money to TWO vendors, > one of them being US!!! BWAHAHAHAHAHA!" > -- > (format nil "~S@~S" "cbbrowne" "cbbrowne.com") > http://www.ntlug.org/~cbbrowne/internet.html > A cool feature of OOP is that the simplest examples are 500 lines. > -- Peter Sestoft > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml

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exchange replacement
by cbbrowne-HInyCGIudOg＠public.gmane.org 13 Dec '03

13 Dec '03

> I think what you want is Ximiam Connector. > > http://www.ximian.com/products/connector/ Ximian Connector allows you to connect Ximian Evolution to a Microsoft Exchange server. The point of the exercise was to _replace_ Microsoft Exchange with something that runs on Linux, not to replace the mail client with one that MANDATES buying Exchange from Microsoft. What you have just suggested gets suggested quite often, and I expect that there is someone at Microsoft laughing maniacally at this. "Someone else asked for an Exchange replacement, and was pointed to a product that will lead to them paying even more money to TWO vendors, one of them being US!!! BWAHAHAHAHAHA!" -- (format nil "~S@~S" "cbbrowne" "cbbrowne.com") http://www.ntlug.org/~cbbrowne/internet.html A cool feature of OOP is that the simplest examples are 500 lines. -- Peter Sestoft -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml

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sco.com right off the map
by joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg＠public.gmane.org 13 Dec '03

13 Dec '03

On Wed, 10 Dec 2003 20:49:48 -0500 "Teddy Mills" <teddymills-VFlxZYho3OA at public.gmane.org> wrote: > that old law about "an eye for an eye" leaves everybody blind. The time is > always right to do the right thing > .~ Martin Luther King Jr. ~ Seems that perhaps this "attack" maybe wasn't an attack at all. Of course, far be it from Darl McBride to *make anything up* or manipulate the media for the purposes of bolstering his "case". http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=20031210163721614 -- JoeHill ++ ICQ # 280779813 Registered Linux user #282046 Homepage: www.orderinchaos.org +++++++++++++++++++++++++++ "If those in charge of our society - politicians, corporate executives, and owners of press and television - can dominate our ideas, they will be secure in their power. They will not need soldiers patrolling the streets. We will control ourselves."-- Howard Zinn -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml

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Exchange replacement, again...
by cgow-FlpYSvOe4acWeH+WijV1tNBPR1lH4CV8＠public.gmane.org 13 Dec '03

13 Dec '03

check out http://www.opengroupware.org It doesn't do mail, but all of the groupware functionality. It even has an Outlook plugin (not GPL'ed though). -- chris On Sat, 2003-12-13 at 01:04, Madison Kelly wrote: > Hi all, > > I know this was talked about recently but for the life of me I > couldn't find the old thread(s) anywhere... Forgive me for asking again. > > Can anyone recommend a method, how-to or general pointer to an > application or collection of applications that would allow for providing > similar services that Exchange does except on Linux? Obviously > compatibility with MS Outlook would be nice however that is not a > requirement is there is a windows client (Mozilla?) that can access > these services. In fact, I would prefer the later option over trying to > stay inter operable with MS. > > Essentially I need personal e-mail, private and shared contacts, > shared scheduling and itineraries and so forth. I would like this to tie > into Linux-based network user authentication. So far, I am thinking I > will be using PAM for authentication, Samba (via PAM) for windows access > and print serving (over CUPS) with an OpenLDAP database to store actual > user data (authentication), e-mails, contact lists and so forth. > > Am I on the right track? Is there a canned or partially canned > application already available? I am trying to stay as completely within > the GPL as possible so I would like to avoid proprietary solutions (such > as what Suse offers). > > Many thanks all! > > Madison > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml

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exchange replacement
by gilh-bXRf4i9N8VRnz3GQr/xE2Q＠public.gmane.org 13 Dec '03

13 Dec '03

I think that Connector allows Evolution to work with Exchange as a client. Here's something that might fit the bill ... http://www.suse.com/us/business/products/openexchange/index.html or http://www.bynari.net/ Regards, Gil Hauer > I think what you want is Ximiam Connector. > > http://www.ximian.com/products/connector/ > > > JMcG > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml

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exchange replacement
by mr.mcgregor-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg＠public.gmane.org 13 Dec '03

13 Dec '03

I think what you want is Ximiam Connector. http://www.ximian.com/products/connector/ JMcG -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml

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