December 2003 - Legacy - lists.gtalug.org

OT: keyboard layouts
by taavi-LbuTpDkqzNzXI80/IeQp7B2eb7JE58TQ＠public.gmane.org 13 Dec '03

13 Dec '03

On Sat, Dec 13, 2003 at 01:03:05AM -0500, Henry Spencer wrote: > Similar tests, on a smaller scale, have been done by modern ergonomics > researchers. Same uninspiring results -- at most, a small advantage. But if it's a distinct, statistically valid advantage, is there any good reason to avoid learning, using, and/or promoting the use of a marginally superior layout? what does a Maltron layout look like? Is it even physically similar to the keyboards we use today? Perhaps Dvorak is a step in the right direction, if only as a stepping stone, showing peole that There Is More Than One Way To Do It. Don't forget that there are also left- and right-handed Dvorak layouts which I think would be unarguably superior for one-handed typists. They use four levels of letters, with the numbers all off to one side. -- taa /*eof*/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml

1 0

OT: keyboard layouts
by taavi-LbuTpDkqzNzXI80/IeQp7B2eb7JE58TQ＠public.gmane.org 13 Dec '03

13 Dec '03

On Sat, Dec 13, 2003 at 12:35:41AM -0500, William Park wrote: > Typing English essay and typing computer program are a little different. > Also, Dvorak doesn't work for Vi users. Since I'm hardcore vi-guy (even > my shell commandline is vi-mode), I'm stuck with Qwerty. It works perfectly well. You just have to relearn the command keys. ;) -- taa /*eof*/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml

1 0

Exchange replacement, again...
by linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ＠public.gmane.org 12 Dec '03

12 Dec '03

Hi all, I know this was talked about recently but for the life of me I couldn't find the old thread(s) anywhere... Forgive me for asking again. Can anyone recommend a method, how-to or general pointer to an application or collection of applications that would allow for providing similar services that Exchange does except on Linux? Obviously compatibility with MS Outlook would be nice however that is not a requirement is there is a windows client (Mozilla?) that can access these services. In fact, I would prefer the later option over trying to stay inter operable with MS. Essentially I need personal e-mail, private and shared contacts, shared scheduling and itineraries and so forth. I would like this to tie into Linux-based network user authentication. So far, I am thinking I will be using PAM for authentication, Samba (via PAM) for windows access and print serving (over CUPS) with an OpenLDAP database to store actual user data (authentication), e-mails, contact lists and so forth. Am I on the right track? Is there a canned or partially canned application already available? I am trying to stay as completely within the GPL as possible so I would like to avoid proprietary solutions (such as what Suse offers). Many thanks all! Madison -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml

1 0

OT: keyboard layouts
by henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg＠public.gmane.org 12 Dec '03

12 Dec '03

On Sat, 13 Dec 2003, Anton Markov wrote: > I think the best test for Dvorak vs. Qwerty would be to have two people > who have never used a keyboard (yes, there are such people) of about the > same age, background, command of the english language, etc. to learn > touch-typing (in say 1 month) and have periodic speed contests > throughout the period. That would be a real un-bias (if there is such a > thing) test. More or less this test was done, with careful controls, in the 1950s by the US government's General Services Administration. They retrained existing typists rather than picking keyboard-naive people, but they were careful to keep it an equal competition -- for example, when the Dvorak typists got up to their previous speed level, all further training they got was matched by extra training for the non-retrained Qwerty control group. (Training and practice will improve typing speed, so you have to make sure both groups get similar levels of it. And you have to control carefully for individual differences in ability, which is one reason why it's convenient to choose people whose performance as typists is already somewhat calibrated. This test was generally much more carefully and fairly run than Dvorak's badly-slanted tests.) The Dvorak typists never did substantially better than the Qwerty group. That test largely ended interest in the Dvorak layout. Similar tests, on a smaller scale, have been done by modern ergonomics researchers. Same uninspiring results -- at most, a small advantage. Folks, this is not some unexplored mystery; such careful, fair trials have been done a number of times in the last 50 years. The only reason the issue keeps coming up is that True Believers in the Dvorak layout insist that all those negative results must be wrong. By the way, although the early typewriter layouts were not done with the benefit of modern human-factors knowledge, there *were* quite a variety of them -- Qwerty was far from the only choice -- and organized speed competitions were common and got serious attention from customers. One reason why Qwerty survived is that it consistently did fairly well in those. It *is* a reasonably good layout, if far from perfect. > Any other keyboard layouts out there? The Maltron keyboard really is what the Dvorak keyboard pretends to be -- a new keyboard layout designed for electronic keyboards and based on modern ergonomics. It is, alas, hard to find and expensive; it's mostly marketed to people with RSI and similar medical problems. Henry Spencer henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml

1 0

OT: keyboard layouts
by opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA＠public.gmane.org 12 Dec '03

12 Dec '03

On Fri, Dec 12, 2003 at 11:41:26PM -0500, Peter Hiscocks wrote: > Personally, it's my opinion that it's gotta be easier on the hands to have > the commonly used consonants and vowels in the home row. In Querty, the 'e' > is on the top row, where you have to reach for it. Apparently IBM used to > sponsor typing speed contests to promote their typewriters. One of Dvorak's > claims was that IBM did not want to have to produce two layouts, so they > opposed the Dvorak layout. When Dvorak typists began to clean up in the > contests, IBM dropped their sponsorship. It would be interesting to > have a modern-day speed contest between an expert Querty and Dvorak typist > and see if there really is a consistent speed difference. Typing English essay and typing computer program are a little different. Also, Dvorak doesn't work for Vi users. Since I'm hardcore vi-guy (even my shell commandline is vi-mode), I'm stuck with Qwerty. -- William Park, Open Geometry Consulting, <opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org> Linux solution for data management and processing. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml

1 0

OT: keyboard layouts
by anton-F0u+EriZ6ihBDgjK7y7TUQ＠public.gmane.org 12 Dec '03

12 Dec '03

I think the best test for Dvorak vs. Qwerty would be to have two people who have never used a keyboard (yes, there are such people) of about the same age, background, command of the english language, etc. to learn touch-typing (in say 1 month) and have periodic speed contests throughout the period. That would be a real un-bias (if there is such a thing) test. By the way, does anyone know a good typing-tutor style software for Linux that supports qwerty and dvorak. Any other keyboard layouts out there? Peter Hiscocks wrote: > Personally, it's my opinion that it's gotta be easier on the hands to have > the commonly used consonants and vowels in the home row. In Querty, the 'e' > is on the top row, where you have to reach for it. Apparently IBM used to > sponsor typing speed contests to promote their typewriters. One of Dvorak's > claims was that IBM did not want to have to produce two layouts, so they > opposed the Dvorak layout. When Dvorak typists began to clean up in the > contests, IBM dropped their sponsorship. It would be interesting to > have a modern-day speed contest between an expert Querty and Dvorak typist > and see if there really is a consistent speed difference. -- Anton Markov <("anton" + "@" + "truxtar" + "." + "com")> GnuPGP Key fingerprint = 5546 A6E2 1FFB 9BB8 15C3 CE34 46B7 8D93 3AD1 44B4 "The difference between insanity and genius is measured only by success." - Some bad guy from 007 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml

1 0

Firewall script for NAT server to protect the smtp
by teddymills-VFlxZYho3OA＠public.gmane.org 12 Dec '03

12 Dec '03

Well I put my server behind a SmoothWall2.0 with a NAT address, (any I portforward the needed ports) but I still find I have to protect the SMTP 25 with this script. This statement in the script gives a chain/target/match error. /sbin/iptables -A INPUT -m state -p tcp --state ESTABLISHED,RELATED -j ACCEPT What is wrong with the above statement? [root-v+aXH1h/sVw at public.gmane.org scripts]# more firewall #!/bin/sh echo "FSNAT (Firewall for Server with NAT Address) starting..." # **************************************** # Flushing all chains and reset iptables # **************************************** /sbin/iptables -F /sbin/iptables -F INPUT /sbin/iptables -F OUTPUT /sbin/iptables -F FORWARD /sbin/iptables -X /sbin/iptables -Z # ********************************************** # DEFAULT POLICIES #*********************************************** echo DROP INPUT chain /sbin/iptables -P INPUT DROP echo DROP OUTPUT chain /sbin/iptables -P OUTPUT DROP echo ACCEPT FORWARD chain /sbin/iptables -P FORWARD ACCEPT # ********************************************** # drop these nutbars # ********************************************* echo Drop that spammer bitch from China 218.70.8.186 /sbin/iptables -A INPUT -s 218.70.8.186/24 -j DROP /sbin/iptables -A INPUT -s 218.70.0.0/24 -j DROP # *********************************************** # allow this traffic # *********************************************** echo accept packets from an already established TCP connection /sbin/iptables -A INPUT -m state -p tcp --state ESTABLISHED,RELATED -j ACCEPT echo allow everything on eth1 network /sbin/iptables -A INPUT -i eth1 -j ACCEPT /sbin/iptables -A OUTPUT -o eth1 -j ACCEPT /sbin/iptables -A FORWARD -i eth1 -j ACCEPT echo allow everything on the loopback interface /sbin/iptables -A INPUT -i lo -j ACCEPT /sbin/iptables -A OUTPUT -o lo -j ACCEPT /sbin/iptables -A FORWARD -i lo -j ACCEPT # **************************************************************** # ACCEPT THESE PACKETS # **************************************************************** echo allow INPUT eth1 only for ports 22 25 53 80 110 143 993 /sbin/iptables -A INPUT -p tcp -i eth1 --sport 22 -j ACCEPT /sbin/iptables -A INPUT -p tcp -i eth1 --sport 25 -j ACCEPT /sbin/iptables -A INPUT -p tcp -i eth1 --sport 53 -j ACCEPT /sbin/iptables -A INPUT -p udp -i eth1 --sport 53 -j ACCEPT /sbin/iptables -A INPUT -p tcp -i eth1 --sport 80 -j ACCEPT /sbin/iptables -A INPUT -p tcp -i eth1 --sport 110 -j ACCEPT /sbin/iptables -A INPUT -p tcp -i eth1 --sport 113 -j ACCEPT /sbin/iptables -A INPUT -p tcp -i eth1 --sport 143 -j ACCEPT /sbin/iptables -A INPUT -p tcp -i eth1 --sport 443 -j ACCEPT /sbin/iptables -A INPUT -p tcp -i eth1 --sport 993 -j ACCEPT # *************************************************************** # eth1 OUTPUT # *************************************************************** echo allow outgoing eth1 traffic only for ports 22 25 53 80 110 143 993 /sbin/iptables -A OUTPUT -p tcp -o eth1 --dport 22 -j ACCEPT /sbin/iptables -A OUTPUT -p tcp -o eth1 --dport 25 -j ACCEPT /sbin/iptables -A OUTPUT -p tcp -o eth1 --dport 53 -j ACCEPT /sbin/iptables -A OUTPUT -p udp -o eth1 --dport 53 -j ACCEPT /sbin/iptables -A OUTPUT -p tcp -o eth1 --dport 80 -j ACCEPT /sbin/iptables -A OUTPUT -p tcp -o eth1 --dport 110 -j ACCEPT /sbin/iptables -A OUTPUT -p tcp -o eth1 --dport 113 -j ACCEPT /sbin/iptables -A OUTPUT -p tcp -o eth1 --dport 143 -j ACCEPT /sbin/iptables -A OUTPUT -p tcp -o eth1 --dport 443 -j ACCEPT /sbin/iptables -A OUTPUT -p tcp -o eth1 --dport 993 -j ACCEPT # ********************************************************** # eth1 FORWARD incoming # default policy listed at top is ACCEPT. (this is a router) # ********************************************************** # ********************************************************** # eth1 FORWARD outgoing # default policy listed at top is ACCEPT. (this is a router) # ********************************************************** # ***************************************************** # Loading Iptable modules (enable if not kernel builtin) # ***************************************************** # /sbin/modprobe ip_tables # /sbin/modprobe ip_conntrack #Added this module # /sbin/modprobe ip_nat_ftp # /sbin/modprobe ip_conntrack_ftp # ***************************************** # Disabled rules # ***************************************** # echo Catchall In case a packet made it here, drop all other traffic. # /sbin/iptables -A FORWARD -j DROP # echo Drop any incoming SMTP packets # /sbin/iptables -A INPUT -p tcp -i ppp0 -s 0/0 --dport 25 -j DROP [root-v+aXH1h/sVw at public.gmane.org scripts]# --------------------------------------------------------------- teddy mills http://www.vger.ca VGER directives...To collect...all that is collectable. To sell...all that is saleable.To merchandise...all that is merchandisable. Family Guys, Quagmire "allllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll right" -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml

1 0

OT: keyboard layouts
by phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w＠public.gmane.org 12 Dec '03

12 Dec '03

I've been using the Dvorak layout since the early 70's. I'd been trying to learn to touch type using the Querty layout, without much success, and a friend (the same one who recommended the 3-wheeled Messerschmitt car ;) suggested Dvorak. The concept made sense to me, so I bought an SCM electric typewriter with the Dvorak layout. Needless to say, it was hard-coded. I was doing useful typing in a few hours. Once you learn the home row you can do a fair bit, and that's encouraging. The Dvorak training manuals were quite good. Then I got a Commodore PET computer and rewired the keyboard by cutting traces and adding jumpers with #30AWG wire. Nowadays I would reprogram the keyboard lookup table, but computers were still pretty mysterious at that point. For a number of years, I've been using a Keytronic keyboard which is switchable between Querty and Dvorak. They don't make it any more, apparently. These days, there is usually some sofware method of changing the configuration. In X for example, there is xdvorak. Even windows has methods of changing keyboard configuration to Dvorak. So if you're using a machine in an internet cafe you can still reconfigure the keyboard. (This causes no end of confusion of the computer goes in for service and the tech guy doesn't know about Dvorak. They figure the keyboard is defective.) My wife learned Dvorak at about the same time I did and she uses it without complaint on her Windows machine. I gave my daughter the option and she chose to learn Querty, figuring that she'd be using machines that could not easily be configured. But it took my daughter much longer to learn to touch-type. Personally, it's my opinion that it's gotta be easier on the hands to have the commonly used consonants and vowels in the home row. In Querty, the 'e' is on the top row, where you have to reach for it. Apparently IBM used to sponsor typing speed contests to promote their typewriters. One of Dvorak's claims was that IBM did not want to have to produce two layouts, so they opposed the Dvorak layout. When Dvorak typists began to clean up in the contests, IBM dropped their sponsorship. It would be interesting to have a modern-day speed contest between an expert Querty and Dvorak typist and see if there really is a consistent speed difference. As for RSI, I did have to deal with that at one point, and it's very scary indeed. Eventually I got it sorted out and yes, wrist position and height are very important. The key for me, were the upper back and shoulder stretching exercises which a sports medicine doctor/chiropracter prescribed. I have no idea why the upper back has such an effect on the wrists, but it seems to be important. Peter On Fri, Dec 12, 2003 at 10:10:01PM -0500, Marcus Brubaker wrote: > On Fri, 2003-12-12 at 16:15, Henry Spencer wrote: > > On Fri, 12 Dec 2003, William Park wrote: > > > > Placebo effect is powerful, and it's the reason why tests of things like > > > > new drugs absolutely must be done as "double-blind" tests: neither the > > > > patients nor the experimenters know which patients are getting the real > > > > pills and which are getting the dummies, until the experiment is over and > > > > the sealed envelopes are opened. > > > > > > Those who died were given placebo, and those who got better were given > > > real drug. Or, was it the other way around... :-) > > > > Well, at least the large-scale experiments typically also have third-party > > monitors, who know which group is which and are watching for signs of > > strong adverse effects (death certainly qualifies :-)). This is why you > > occasionally hear of a clinical trial being halted early -- it means that > > the real-drug group was having a suspiciously large number of heart > > attacks or whatever, and the monitors sounded the alarm. > > Actually, on occasion, long term studies are halted early for the exact > opposite reason. In fact recently a 10 year study of a certain drug > treatment on breast cancer was halted 6 years in so that those on the > placebo could take the real treatment because the results were so > positive. I forget the details anymore though. > > -- > Marcus Brubaker <marcus.brubaker-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org> > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -- Peter D. Hiscocks Department of Electrical and Computer Engineering Ryerson University, 350 Victoria Street, Toronto, Ontario, M5B 2K3, Canada Phone: (416) 979-5000 Ext 6109 Fax: (416) 979-5280 Email: phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org URL: http://www.ee.ryerson.ca/~phiscock -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml

1 0

Albatron motherboards
by anton-F0u+EriZ6ihBDgjK7y7TUQ＠public.gmane.org 12 Dec '03

12 Dec '03

Hello Everyone, Following my motherboard problems (See "What to do with kernel panics?"), I have decided to buy myself another motherboard (the one I got apparently supports FSB up to 400MHz; my P4 runs at 533MHz). I am looking at the Albatron PX845PEV-800 (or perhaps the Albatron PX865PE PRO II). I would like to know if anyone has had any good/bad experiences with these, as well as how compatible they are with Linux (I am going to do a search on that myself too, but I want a real-world opinion). The URLs for the details are: PX845PEV-800: <http://www.albatron.com.tw/english/it/mb/specification.asp?pro_id=4> PX865PE PRO II: <http://www.albatron.com.tw/english/it/mb/specification.asp?pro_id=51> (This one is sweet!) Thanks. -- Anton Markov <("anton" + "@" + "truxtar" + "." + "com")> GnuPGP Key fingerprint = 5546 A6E2 1FFB 9BB8 15C3 CE34 46B7 8D93 3AD1 44B4 "The difference between insanity and genius is measured only by success." - Some bad guy from 007 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml

1 0

OT: keyboard layouts
by marcus.brubaker-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA＠public.gmane.org 12 Dec '03

12 Dec '03

On Fri, 2003-12-12 at 16:15, Henry Spencer wrote: > On Fri, 12 Dec 2003, William Park wrote: > > > Placebo effect is powerful, and it's the reason why tests of things like > > > new drugs absolutely must be done as "double-blind" tests: neither the > > > patients nor the experimenters know which patients are getting the real > > > pills and which are getting the dummies, until the experiment is over and > > > the sealed envelopes are opened. > > > > Those who died were given placebo, and those who got better were given > > real drug. Or, was it the other way around... :-) > > Well, at least the large-scale experiments typically also have third-party > monitors, who know which group is which and are watching for signs of > strong adverse effects (death certainly qualifies :-)). This is why you > occasionally hear of a clinical trial being halted early -- it means that > the real-drug group was having a suspiciously large number of heart > attacks or whatever, and the monitors sounded the alarm. Actually, on occasion, long term studies are halted early for the exact opposite reason. In fact recently a 10 year study of a certain drug treatment on breast cancer was halted 6 years in so that those on the placebo could take the real treatment because the results were so positive. I forget the details anymore though. -- Marcus Brubaker <marcus.brubaker-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org> -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml

1 0