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C programming question
by jingsu-26n5VD7DAF2Tm46uYYfjYg＠public.gmane.org 19 Dec '03

19 Dec '03

For the purposes of just seeing what the kernel does, even in protected mode, with regards to both virtual and physical memory, an easier method may be to run it in an emulator instead of trying to examine the running operating system. Try something like bochs. http://bochs.sourceforge.net/ A colleague of mine uses Bochs for simulating Linux on an x86 for his runtime trace optimization research. Apparently Bochs is a really well constructed and designed piece of work; expecially nice if it becomes necessary to dig under Bochs itself to see what it's doing in terms of emulation. -Jing -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml

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C programming question
by taavi-LbuTpDkqzNzXI80/IeQp7B2eb7JE58TQ＠public.gmane.org 19 Dec '03

19 Dec '03

On Fri, Dec 19, 2003 at 06:08:04PM -0500, Sergey Kuznetsov wrote: > In this case you can't reach the physical memory. Intel processors ( and > other CPU as well ) protects the access to the real physical memory. > Only kernel have access to it. > You can do it only thru the kernel space as a driver module, or thru the > /proc/kcore, but this is file in format of core file, you should know how to > handle and read it. "Physical memory" is an interesting topic when talking about CPUs with MMUs (memory management units). x86 CPUs since the 286 iirc have MMUs. To read the actual first few hundred bytes of physical, you will probably want to go through DOS, or write your own bootable program and eschew with an OS entirely. The Linux kernel does have the ability to map bits of real physical memory into the standard protected mode address space, though. I just don't know how to do it. Much simpler from DOS. ;) Note that doing something like: char *memory = 0x0202; will let you access memory at address 0x0202, relative to the program as it runs. In DOS, this is actually the 0x0202 byte in real, physical memory(*). In Linux, it'll be whatever's in 0x00000202 as seen by that process. Even in the kernel, it'll be 0x00000202 as seen by the kernel. The MMU can dynamically map physical and logical memory addresses by making use of a TLB (translation lookaside buffer). Because the kernel has to deal with physical devices which are memory mapped, however, it is possible using existing interfaces. You'd want to explore some of the driver and "real mode" memory interfaces, I think. No, it's never as simple as you thought. ;) (*) Of course, you'd want to be sure that you were accessing offset 0x0202 from segment 0x0000. DOS and all other intel real-mode applications have the concept of a "near" and a "far" pointer, the former being 16-bit, and the latter being 24-bit (the middle 8 bits of segment and offset overlap). See, it's NEVER as simple as you thought. ;) -- taa Hackers (the movie) n. A notable bomb from 1995. Should have been titled "Crackers", because cracking is what the movie was about. It's understandable that they didn't however; titles redolent of snack food are probably a tough sell in Hollywood. --From the Jargon File 4.1.2 --http://www.sunsite.ualberta.ca/jargon/ /*eof*/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml

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Waaaay offtopic
by legrady-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA＠public.gmane.org 19 Dec '03

19 Dec '03

Actually, the reverse is the basis of science, ironically. You can't prove Newton's Theory of Gravity, but given Einstein's Theory of Relativity, you can disprove Newton's theory .... or, more precisely, you can prove that Newton's theory is a reasonably approximation, but only until you consider certain situations. And Einstein's theories are disproven by the the Uncertainty Principle, and by String Theory .... which are refinements of Einstein. But it's impossible ( so far ) to prove any of these. Maybe String Theory will be proven, and then we'll know everything. What does this have to do with Perl, kernels, or memory mapping? JoeHill wrote: >On Fri, 19 Dec 2003 22:40:29 -0500 >James Knott <james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org> wrote: > > > >> If someone has a claim, the onus is on them to prove their claims, not on >> someone else to prove them wrong. >> >> > >...actually, IIRC it isn't even logically possible to prove a negative. Been >awhile since Formal Logic 101 for me, and many many, er, "memory-loss inducers". > > > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml

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Waaaay offtopic
by joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg＠public.gmane.org 19 Dec '03

19 Dec '03

On Fri, 19 Dec 2003 22:51:09 -0500 "Hugh Reilly" <hughreilly1-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org> wrote: > Joe, I gotta say that I know William personally, and I will vouch for him > 100%. Friends don't always have to agree with one another. The fact that > William chooses a Linux Users Group as his medium for defending Bill Gates > may seem a little unusual, but I think it's borne more from a sense of > frustration about developing viable models for successful business in the > Linux realm. > > I think we'd all like to see Linux as successful as Microsoft has been. And > I think we will. Well, knock yourself out then ;-) Unfortunately for Will, the majority of the Linux community are what he would consider "commies", you know, people who believe in evil things like sharing and collaborating. Must be very frustrating. He's still *plonked*. -- JoeHill ++ ICQ # 280779813 Registered Linux user #282046 Homepage: www.orderinchaos.org +++++++++++++++++++++++++++ "If the Americans go in and overthrow Saddam Hussein and it's clean, he has nothing, I will apologize to the nation, and I will not trust the Bush Administration again, all right?"-- Bill O'Reilly, March 18, 2003 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml

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Waaaay offtopic
by joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg＠public.gmane.org 19 Dec '03

19 Dec '03

On Fri, 19 Dec 2003 22:40:29 -0500 James Knott <james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org> wrote: > If someone has a claim, the onus is on them to prove their claims, not on > someone else to prove them wrong. ...actually, IIRC it isn't even logically possible to prove a negative. Been awhile since Formal Logic 101 for me, and many many, er, "memory-loss inducers". -- JoeHill ++ ICQ # 280779813 Registered Linux user #282046 Homepage: www.orderinchaos.org +++++++++++++++++++++++++++ "And so if people are violating the law by doing drugs, they ought to be accused and they ought to be convicted and they ought to be sent up."-- Rush Limbaugh, drug abuser -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml

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Waaaay offtopic
by hughreilly1-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ＠public.gmane.org 19 Dec '03

19 Dec '03

>JoeHill ++ ICQ # 280779813 >Registered Linux user #282046 >Homepage: www.orderinchaos.org > > Yes, William, I expect more. But I have to admit that when people are >afraid > > for their livelihoods, they do tend to act against the "greater good" if >it > > will help their own individual circumstances. That's why I think it's so > > important to make sure our systems and institutions are designed to >harness > > human nature to increase the "greater good". > >Hugh, please, it's getting painful. I mean seriously: > >"Even though the only people who are losing bone calcium are those who >drink milk like water, they will defend their livelihood." > >Does that make *any* sense whatsoever to you? Do you really think the mind >that >came up with that sentence is ever going to see your point of view? Joe, I gotta say that I know William personally, and I will vouch for him 100%. Friends don't always have to agree with one another. The fact that William chooses a Linux Users Group as his medium for defending Bill Gates may seem a little unusual, but I think it's borne more from a sense of frustration about developing viable models for successful business in the Linux realm. I think we'd all like to see Linux as successful as Microsoft has been. And I think we will. -Hugh _______________________________________________ Hugh Reilly XEN Technology Group | LinuxLab 600 Bay Street, Suite 405 Toronto ON M5R 1G6 tel: 416-204-9951 fax: 416-204-9723 email: info-2K4XOyu7qTosA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org _______________________________________________ http://www.xen.ca | http://www.linuxlab.ca >From: JoeHill <joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org> >Reply-To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org >To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org >Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Waaaay offtopic >Date: Fri, 19 Dec 2003 21:54:58 -0500 > >On Fri, 19 Dec 2003 21:37:28 -0500 >"Hugh Reilly" <hughreilly1-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org> wrote: > > > Yes, William, I expect more. But I have to admit that when people are >afraid > > for their livelihoods, they do tend to act against the "greater good" if >it > > will help their own individual circumstances. That's why I think it's so > > important to make sure our systems and institutions are designed to >harness > > human nature to increase the "greater good". > >Hugh, please, it's getting painful. I mean seriously: > >"Even though the only people who are losing bone calcium are those who >drink milk like water, they will defend their livelihood." > >Does that make *any* sense whatsoever to you? Do you really think the mind >that >came up with that sentence is ever going to see your point of view? > >Anyway, it's your call, but my guess is we're a coupla cans short of a >sixpack >with this one :-P > >-- >JoeHill ++ ICQ # 280779813 >Registered Linux user #282046 >Homepage: www.orderinchaos.org >+++++++++++++++++++++++++++ >"You tell me it's the institution; Well you know, you better free your mind >instead..."-- John Lennon >-- >The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org >TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus&pgmarket=en-ca&RU=http%3a%2f%2fjoi… -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml

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Waaaay offtopic
by james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA＠public.gmane.org 19 Dec '03

19 Dec '03

William Park wrote: >>BTW, I tried emailing you earlier today, but got an undeliverable >>thingy back from your address. > > > Try now. I'm totally overloaded with spams. Yahoo's 6MB limit gets > used up in 2 hours. My other accounts are not as bad, about 1MB/hour. > Maybe you should try that Zapper, to cure the spam! ;-) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml

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Waaaay offtopic
by james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA＠public.gmane.org 19 Dec '03

19 Dec '03

Hugh Reilly wrote: >> From: James Knott <james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org> >> Reply-To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org >> To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org >> Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Waaaay offtopic >> Date: Fri, 19 Dec 2003 18:13:01 -0500 > > >> One person I'd never believe is a naturopathic "doctor". Naturopathy >> is based on a bogus belief that a tiny amount of something that causes >> the same symptoms as a disease will cure or prevent it. The problem >> is, that the doses generally prescribed are physically impossible. >> For example a common dilution of the "medicine" is 10X or divided with >> water or alcohol 10:1, 10 times. The problem with this amount of >> dilution, is that the number of molecules gets in the way. In order >> to consume one molecule of the substance, you'd have to drink several >> thousand gallons of water. They also have another dilution of 100C, >> which is 100:1 100 times, which is even more impossible. > > > You're mistaking naturopathy for homeopathy. Quite so. My mistake. Plus, your world-view is > getting in the way. The truth is, there are "mysteries" which science > as-we-know-it cannot explain. The fact that science ("official" science, > anyway) cannot explain homeopathy has no influence whatsoever on the > thousands of people worldwide who benefit from its practice. Science is > not yet finished explaining the world to us; it's evolving, and so are > we. Keeping an open mind is good survival instinct. Bottom line, is much of that so called "medicine" cannot show any benefit in comparitive tests. As for not knowing all about the world, the only way to change that is to study. If someone has an idea, they should try to show some supporting evidence. I don't know if you recall something called "Essiac". It was supposed to be a cancer cure, developed by a woman, who lived up near Huntsville. She appeared almost 30 years ago, with her claims. She wanted the provincial government to pay her a large amount of money for her cure, before she'd allow any tests or provide any info on it. She had nothing to show it was effective, other than her own claims. The government turned her down, but a private company paid her. Last I heard they were suing her for fraud. With a scientific approach, a claim and any supporting data is examined by others. Sometimes this process fails, but overall, it results in the advancement of knowledge. If someone has a claim, the onus is on them to prove their claims, not on someone else to prove them wrong. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml

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When will the persecution of MS *end*?!
by james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA＠public.gmane.org 19 Dec '03

19 Dec '03

William Park wrote: > On Fri, Dec 19, 2003 at 06:52:59AM -0500, James Knott wrote: > >>>RealNetwork is like after-market car radio company that is suing GM >>>because GM has the arrogance to put radio in all GM cars, thereby >>>shutting out after-market radio companies. >> >>Actually, that matter did go to court and the auto makers lost. > > > What do you mean they lost? You mean GM can't sell red cars, because > that will shutout after-market companies selling red paints? > It means they couldn't force a customer to take a radio they didn't want. The result was that if you planned to get an aftermarket radio, you didn't have to pay for one "bundled" with the car. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml

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Waaaay offtopic
by james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA＠public.gmane.org 19 Dec '03

19 Dec '03

Hugh Reilly wrote: >> From: James Knott <james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org> >> Reply-To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org >> To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org >> Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Waaaay offtopic >> Date: Fri, 19 Dec 2003 18:23:29 -0500 >> >> Hugh Reilly wrote: >> >>> Has anyone out there heard of the "zapper", invented by Saskatchewan >>> naturopathic doctor and celll biologist Hulda Clark? She claims that >>> disease-causing bacteria and viruses in the body can be killed by >>> low-level radio frequencies. The zapper delivers that frequency to >>> the body, and has been claimed by some to actually cure AIDS. >> >> >> If that's all it takes, we're all going to be fine. We're constantly >> bathed in RF from many sources. The above claim, indicates she's a >> fraud. > > > No it doesn't. The science behind it is, of course, more complex than > you could have known from my post. What I find interesting is that that > didn't stop you from jumping to conclusions. Real medicine requires trials to show effectiveness and risks of a medicine or treatment. By examining the results of a study with several participants, the effects can be analyzed. Taking a single case will not prove much, as you cannot say whether what you did or if the results could be attributed to something else. > >>> I have been experimenting myself with the device, having built >>> several over the past couple of years. And I have to say, with very >>> positive results. And I am NOT getting a flu shot! >> >> >> How do you know you've had positive results? Did you run a full >> study, with several participant, including a control group? If not, >> all you've got is a delusion. I could claim that eating pizza & beer >> prevents disease. After all, I've had lots of both and rarely get >> sick (only one sick day in 21 years, with one employer). > > > I don't need to employ the scientific method to prove something to > myself. Neither do you, unless you don't trust yourself. If pizza and > beer works for you, who am I to argue? Well, what's that saying about he who refuses to see? If you don't have a carefully controlled study, what have you got? So you didn't get the flu. Would you have gotten it if you hadn't zapped yourself? There's absolutely no way to tell. Now if you get 2 large groups of people, one experiment, one control, you can then compare how the 2 groups responded. If there's no significant difference, your treament had no effect. If one group is measurably better (or worse), then you have some idea as to the effectiveness of your treatment. Anything else is at best a delusion or worst a deadly fraud. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml

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