August 2003 - Legacy - lists.gtalug.org

when dealing with an extortionist
by fcsoft-rxKNY4w4koG3ikBYyZqyVg＠public.gmane.org 19 Aug '03

19 Aug '03

It seems that the Open Source community has indicated its willingness to make a deal with the SCO extortionists. http://linuxtoday.com/developer/2003081901726OSCYLL In my opinion this is a very dangerous tactic but I recognize that the court system may be many things but fair isn't one of them. In my opinion if we are going to cut a deal with SCO as an Open Source community it should contain some elements which ensure that they will never be a problem again: a) SCO must cease to be a Linux distributor permanently b) SCO must agree to never bundle any Open Source code with its core SCO product going forward c) SCO must agree to never use any Open Source tools in its development chain In return the Linux community should remove the contentious pieces of source code from the 2.6 source tree ( presumably until the matter of ownership is clarified by a court ). Meanwhile as an Open Source community we should crank it up a notch and continue to innovate like crazy and lose the closed source companies in our dust. We should pool the millions of dollars that would have been spent on legal costs and set up a foundation to helping independent Open Source projects help their developers eat. The reality of this whole debate is that those elements of the Linux kernel that are at the centre of the dispute are the big enterprise features on Intel boxes. Those are the elements on which the big two (IBM and HP) are sucking all the available profits at the moment. The bulk of the rest of the Open Source community is working on aspects (and trying to eek out a living ) of the Open Source pool that is ultimately going to consume all the competition in areas such as: i) programming tools ii) embedded development iii) web services iv) desktop -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml

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TLUG vs Sympatico
by billt-l+PWtdWbHAuXFJAUJl40Xg＠public.gmane.org 19 Aug '03

19 Aug '03

On the subject of disconnect/reconnect brought up. The procedure is that when you disconnect the sympatico line a disconnect order is sent for a disconnect on a specific day. If a reconnect order is recieved prior to that day the computer program will detect this and overide the disconnect work order. The new work order will be a "reprogram" instead of "pull the card". This was the 3 million dollar upgrade I was responsible for back in 1999. On "why use pppoe". PPPoe is used because it allows for changing peoples ip addresses seemlessly without requiring a disconnect/reconnect sequence. PPPoe was compitable with the method used for billing of IP services that ALL odf the telcos in North America agreed upon nearly a decade ago, so instead of changing the billing system, they added the extra layer. Hope this has been enlightening. Bill On Tue, Aug 12, 2003 at 05:55:54PM -0400, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Tue, Aug 12, 2003 at 10:44:19AM -0400, Keith Mastin wrote: > > Unfortunately, this doesn't work unless you have 2 unique PICs. I run into > > this all the time. Bell pulls the DSLAM on directions from Sympatico and > > then plugs another one in on direction from the new provider. You might be > > able to get it down to 4 days if you have an insider at Bell, but I > > wouldn't count on it. > > > > Sometimes, you just have to bite the bullet. > > Actually you can use multiple dsl providers at the same time and select > based on the pppoe parameters you set. Your line is either DSL enabled > or it isn't, there is no choice of which equipment it plugs into. That > is the whole reason they use pppoe in the first place. It is to select > the other end of your tunnel. > > It is possible that when you disconnect sympatico they will order > disconnect even though you now have service with another provider. > Perhaps the new provider will have some method of ensuring they don't do > so. Ask them, since I imagine it is a common question that they > probably have the answer to. > > Lennart Sorensen > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml

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Distributions' differences
by pmills-5bG9SNWDbRX3fQ9qLvQP4Q＠public.gmane.org 19 Aug '03

19 Aug '03

On Tuesday, August 19, 2003, at 11:22 AM, Keith Mastin wrote: > Coca-Cola/Pepsi, Labatts/Molsons... which is > better? Oh, I've been around computers long enough to know not to ask THAT! (Apple ][, TRS-80; Atari, Amiga....) But my assumption/experience is that various distributions target various audiences. (I remember the Corel one having Wizard-everything; conversely I've installed -- some years ago -- by searching for a kernel that had the basic drivers I needed, creating a boot-floppy on Windows....) Actually, I think the "distrowatch" site has what I need where it describes some history and motivation...rather than popularity. Thanks to all for the help. ........................ Phillip Mills Multi-platform software development (416) 224-0714 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml

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Distributions' differences
by kmastin-PzQIwG9Jn9VAFePFGvp55w＠public.gmane.org 19 Aug '03

19 Aug '03

> Over the years I've used only a few different Linux distributions. Can > anyone summarize differences in substance or style among most of what > exists? ...perhaps a website that compares or describes the most > likely audience for the various types...especially in terms of how > technically adept the user/admin needs to be? .. pretty difficult to do with any degree of accuracy, as what you're asking is so subjective. Even putting a poll together probably won't give you the data you're looking for, as the results would depend on the respondants and their degree of technical proficiency, plus whatever prejudices they carry. Coca-Cola/Pepsi, Labatts/Molsons... which is better? -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml

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Distributions' differences
by lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys＠public.gmane.org 19 Aug '03

19 Aug '03

On Tue, Aug 19, 2003 at 08:11:42AM -0400, Phillip Mills wrote: > Over the years I've used only a few different Linux distributions. Can > anyone summarize differences in substance or style among most of what > exists? ...perhaps a website that compares or describes the most > likely audience for the various types...especially in terms of how > technically adept the user/admin needs to be? Well main differences that matter are: Installer (some are friendly, some have many features, some let you choose everything, others give you what makes sense to many new users). Package management (or lack thereof). Some have full dependancy checking, auto download from mirror sites, simple upgrades. Some have some of that but requrie you to download the packages yourself and then install them. Some have no dependancy handling and just put the files on the drive for you. Some use source code only. Configuration and management: Some have GUIs to "help" you with everything, some have command line tools, some expect you to edit the config files yourself. Some allow multiple of those. Default desktop: Some come with a nicely configured ready to use desktop environment, some have multiple choices of desktops, some ave none. Some force you to have one, some let you choose, and some just don't give you anything. Release cycle: Some distributions release every X months, sometimes even if they aren't fully tested. Some only release when they are done (even if it takes years between releases). Some have multiple levels of release that you can choose from, from very stable to leading edge but not fully tested. As for what is best, that depends on the user's experience level, how low level into the nit picky stuff they like to get, and how much control they expect to have over things. Some are very efficient time wise for admins who need to admin many machines, possibly remotely, and can be managed quickly and simply using ssh only. Others are more like windows and need to you run X applications to change settings (unless you know what file to edit and what the exact syntax is.) Which distribution fits what is also arguable (and people do argue about it.) Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml

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Multiple installations
by kmastin-PzQIwG9Jn9VAFePFGvp55w＠public.gmane.org 19 Aug '03

19 Aug '03

> When it comes to PC hardware, I really don't, therefore I have what's > probably a ridiculous question. > > I set up a machine with a single hard drive partitioned to dual-boot > between NT Workstation and SuSE Linux. I use my current Linux > installation for all kinds of volatile stuff: trying out various SW > packages, my own development projects.... I would like to have a > second, bootable Linux environment on that computer that would stay > relatively clean as a "production" server where I could demo stuff to > clients without wondering what my latest downloads mangled. > > I've done this on Macs where it's as simple as adding another drive, > installing a second copy of the system, and choosing which > volume/partition to boot from. With PCs, however, I've heard horror > stories from others about failing to boot because of number, location, > or size of a given partition...or master vs. slave drives. Are there > warnings/guidelines for what I want to do? (It sounds like it should > be a "just do it", but others' experiences make me nervous.) Just do it. If there are problems they are workable. I would trust linux/xBSD for this long before I would trust M$. You can share filesystems between the installations. Windoh$ wants to be on the first filesystem of the primary drive, linux really has no limitations in comparison. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml

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REQUESTING INTERRUPT ON 4
by bonnie-grKYUO1WUpSaMJb+Lgu22Q＠public.gmane.org 19 Aug '03

19 Aug '03

IRQ4 WEDNESDAY AUGUST 20 ******new location --------> FUNHAUS 526 QUEEN STREET WEST (FORMER ZEN LOUNGE) featuring performances by: cyborg data jockey GHETTOCYB.ORG CEREBRAL ITCH spinning electro-space-glitch, and a live PA by SUBRYTHM - plus an 802.11b wireless net, live videomixing by DR. RX, MISTERBONNIE on teh commandline, an ascii porn room, art by BADPACKET and others... pls c http://www.asciipr0n.com/irq/ a floppyswap (imgs, html, txt, mods or anything that fits on a floppy) (archive of past floppyswaps can be found @ http://www.asciipr0n.com/archive/0015/ ) bcnu there ^_^ irq-grKYUO1WUpSaMJb+Lgu22Q at public.gmane.org 4 more info -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml

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Multiple installations
by lloyd-fEEwcc3XMu8jODpR/OX0VQ＠public.gmane.org 19 Aug '03

19 Aug '03

On Tue, 2003-08-19 at 10:56, Phillip Mills wrote: > On Tuesday, August 19, 2003, at 10:14 AM, Lloyd D Budd wrote: > > > On Tue, 2003-08-19 at 08:27, Phillip Mills wrote: > > > > [snip] > >> I would like to have a > >> second, bootable Linux environment on that computer that would stay > >> relatively clean as a "production" server where I could demo stuff to > >> clients without wondering what my latest downloads mangled. > > > > On a box from the last few years there should be no issue. > > > > I suggest installing Microsoft OS' first : oldest to newest. > > That sounds as if you're suggesting a reinstallation of what's already > there? I was hoping that, by adding a second drive and putting my > production system on that, I could leave the NT/Linux development stuff > as is. It's not like I'd be likely to put a second version of Windows > on a nice clean drive or anything. :-) Sorry for the confusion. My mention of MS OS is a distracting. You are correct, no re-installation should be necessary. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml

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Multiple installations
by pmills-5bG9SNWDbRX3fQ9qLvQP4Q＠public.gmane.org 19 Aug '03

19 Aug '03

On Tuesday, August 19, 2003, at 10:14 AM, Lloyd D Budd wrote: > On Tue, 2003-08-19 at 08:27, Phillip Mills wrote: > > [snip] >> I would like to have a >> second, bootable Linux environment on that computer that would stay >> relatively clean as a "production" server where I could demo stuff to >> clients without wondering what my latest downloads mangled. > > On a box from the last few years there should be no issue. > > I suggest installing Microsoft OS' first : oldest to newest. That sounds as if you're suggesting a reinstallation of what's already there? I was hoping that, by adding a second drive and putting my production system on that, I could leave the NT/Linux development stuff as is. It's not like I'd be likely to put a second version of Windows on a nice clean drive or anything. :-) ........................ Phillip Mills Multi-platform software development (416) 224-0714 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml

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Multiple installations
by steellis-MemsRbtxb9FWk0Htik3J/w＠public.gmane.org 19 Aug '03

19 Aug '03

Maybe you should consider products like VMWare. You would then have the ability to run many O/S systems without worrying too much about killing the host system. Steve -----Original Message----- From: Phillip Mills [mailto:pmills-5bG9SNWDbRX3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org] Sent: Tuesday, August 19, 2003 8:27 AM To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Subject: [TLUG]: Multiple installations When it comes to PC hardware, I really don't, therefore I have what's probably a ridiculous question. I set up a machine with a single hard drive partitioned to dual-boot between NT Workstation and SuSE Linux. I use my current Linux installation for all kinds of volatile stuff: trying out various SW packages, my own development projects.... I would like to have a second, bootable Linux environment on that computer that would stay relatively clean as a "production" server where I could demo stuff to clients without wondering what my latest downloads mangled. I've done this on Macs where it's as simple as adding another drive, installing a second copy of the system, and choosing which volume/partition to boot from. With PCs, however, I've heard horror stories from others about failing to boot because of number, location, or size of a given partition...or master vs. slave drives. Are there warnings/guidelines for what I want to do? (It sounds like it should be a "just do it", but others' experiences make me nervous.) ........................ Phillip Mills Multi-platform software development (416) 224-0714 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml

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