August 2003 - Legacy - lists.gtalug.org

City of Toronto using Linux (on the desktop, yet!)
by pmills-5bG9SNWDbRX3fQ9qLvQP4Q＠public.gmane.org 21 Aug '03

21 Aug '03

On Thursday, August 21, 2003, at 08:41 AM, Max Blanco wrote: > Shouldn't we, as taxpayers, invest in linux, and save ourselves and our > neighbours $$$ and stress? I just sent a letter to the Globe and Mail (we'll see what happens) suggesting that exposing Microsoft products to the Internet, and thereby inviting vandals to "have at it", is an abuse of the trust we put in civil servants to manage resources for the good of the taxpayers. (This in reference to a recent article titled, "Blaster Worm hampering power repair.") ........................ Phillip Mills Multi-platform software development (416) 224-0714 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml

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6.2 vs. 7.3
by anton-F0u+EriZ6ihBDgjK7y7TUQ＠public.gmane.org 21 Aug '03

21 Aug '03

Tim Writer wrote: >Howard Gibson <hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org> writes: > > >More RAM will definitely help. > > I agree. I found that a RAM upgrade from 64MB to 192MB will almost double your overall performance. > > >> My first strategy for speeding things up is to run FVWM2 instead of >> Gnome or KDE. There are a couple of other small window managers out >> there, but I have a long history with FVWM. There are a couple of >> other FVWM freaks in this user group, so you can get help. >> >> There was some talk about running an FVWM demo at one of the user >> meetings. Is there any more interest in this? >> >> > >Consider xfce4 instead. It's a lightweight, functional desktop, reminiscent >of CDE. > Also have a look at Fluxbox. It is a very simple yet powerful window manager with a right-click based menu system for starting applications and configuration. Great for customized setups; it doesn't share Redhat's default menus. --- Anton -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml

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City of Toronto using Linux (on the desktop, yet!)
by blanco-S8qYAnHmZTt34ZA5RureAJ4VBq8PJc8F＠public.gmane.org 21 Aug '03

21 Aug '03

On Wed, 20 Aug 2003, Evan Leibovitch wrote: > > http://www.itworldcanada.com/index.cfm/ci_id/46194.htm > The Metro Ref library at 789 Yonge St has over 100 desktop computers, all running windows. (The TPL runs windows exclusively.) Linux systems are cheap and easy; the IT staff at "Children's Services Division" of the City know that already, as reported by itworld. Windows systems are expensive to operate and maintain and may be a primary cause of stress. Perhaps this leads to road rage and spousal or child abuse. Shouldn't we, as taxpayers, invest in linux, and save ourselves and our neighbours $$$ and stress? A good place to start might be to ask for linux to be installed on one computer in the Metro Ref. This would be a prime location to educate John Q. Public... cheekily yours, max. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml

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City of Toronto using Linux (on the desktop, yet!)
by fcsoft-rxKNY4w4koG3ikBYyZqyVg＠public.gmane.org 21 Aug '03

21 Aug '03

Even more interesting when you find out that it was essentially implemented by Sun Microsystems ... one of the two major vendors who have publically acknowledged financing our current IP extortionist. At 09:48 PM 8/20/03 -0400, you wrote: >I may have missed this if it had previously been on the list. If this is a >repeat, sorry. > >http://www.itworldcanada.com/index.cfm/ci_id/46194.htm > >Very interesting stuff. > >-- >The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org >TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml

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6.2 vs. 7.3
by hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ＠public.gmane.org 20 Aug '03

20 Aug '03

On 20 Aug 2003 21:41:01 -0400 Tim Writer <tim-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org> wrote: > Howard Gibson <hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org> writes: > > My first strategy for speeding things up is to run FVWM2 instead of > > Gnome or KDE. There are a couple of other small window managers out > > there, but I have a long history with FVWM. There are a couple of > > other FVWM freaks in this user group, so you can get help. > > > > There was some talk about running an FVWM demo at one of the user > > meetings. Is there any more interest in this? > > Consider xfce4 instead. It's a lightweight, functional desktop, reminiscent > of CDE. RAM hungry apps like OpenOffice or Mozilla will still be unwieldy > (without a RAM upgrade) but you can run a decent desktop on this machine if > you choose your components carefully. Debian is arguably a better choice for > a low power machine as you have far more ready made packages to choose from; > thus, you can better experiment with tradoffs between footprint and > functionality. Be prepared, however, to spend a good bit of time customizing > it to your liking. Tim, I tried XFCE briefly a couple of years ago. It buggered up my Gnome configuration somehow. It wrote over Sawfish theme I had picked out. This probably is irrelevant now, since they keep changing Gnome. I used to use FVWM2 as my Gnome window manager, but then Gnome changed and intercepted the mouse menus, which are one of the things I like about FVWM. Wasn't somebody around here working on a distribution for older smaller computers? -- Howard Gibson hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org howard-42qnO8ePF9cV+D8aMU/kSg at public.gmane.org http://home.eol.ca/~hgibson -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml

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Learning PHP
by sidney-3Kd7Tu4o6f/sBN0MCq728g＠public.gmane.org 20 Aug '03

20 Aug '03

> > At 02:32 AM 08/20/2003 -0400, you wrote: > >Does anyone know of a good course to learn PHP from absolutely nothing? > >Before anyone tells me to RTFM, I would like to learn from someone else > >and ask questions :) > > A course would be one way to learn PHP. Do you need one? It would depend > on > your background. If you have used Perl and/or C in the past then you may > be > able to pick up one of those "Teach Yourself PHP in X Days" type books. I > have been programming a long time (over 20 years) and have used a variety > of languages. A decent reference text is all I need to pick up the > specific > syntax of a new language and to learn what are the available built-in > library routines to do various things. I went through the first 8 hours of > an "...in 24 hours" book on PHP in about 1 hour and another 2 hours for > the > next several "hours" in the book. > > Picking up a book can be much cheaper than most formal courses and you can > go at your own pace. It will depend on how much programming background you > have, if you have used languages with similar syntax, and if you can pick > things up from books easily (some people can't). YMMV (Your Mileage May > Vary before someone asks. :-) It all depends, I find that while I can learn a lot from a book sometimes, (for example going from zero to newbie using the RH bible), I don't always have the luxury of six months to spend on something like this. I don't have much programming experience aside from Lingo and HTML, and thought it would be easier to learn by example from someone else. Its also good to be able to ask questions when you get stuck. Sid -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml

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City of Toronto using Linux (on the desktop, yet!)
by evan-WHMkLBA7RDE＠public.gmane.org 20 Aug '03

20 Aug '03

I may have missed this if it had previously been on the list. If this is a repeat, sorry. http://www.itworldcanada.com/index.cfm/ci_id/46194.htm Very interesting stuff. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml

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6.2 vs. 7.3
by tim-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ＠public.gmane.org 20 Aug '03

20 Aug '03

Howard Gibson <hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org> writes: > On Sun, 17 Aug 2003 21:47:32 -0400 > Chris Aitken <aitken-BwLjziHGQLusTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org> wrote: > > > I have an acer p166 (64 MB RAM, awe32 sound card, trio s3 virge video > > card) which my daughter has been using for WordPerfect 8, MSN (gaim), > > music CDs and Internet. It had RH 7.3 and ran a little slow. I upgraded > > it to 8.0 to see just how slow it would run - and, ya, it was *too* > > slow. I think the hardware is better suited to RH 6.2. That went on > > easily and everything seems a little faster. However, I can see I'll > > have to a lot of mucking around - no gaim, so I'll have to find > > something else that will run MSN, it liked my sound card but then > > announced that I'll have to compile sound support into the kernel, > > printing already gave me a little trouble. Problem is is that this is > > not a test/learning machine - this is my daughter's machine. I don't > > want to tell her she has to be off it for days and days while I learn > > about makefile, compiling the kernel (for the first time), etc. So, my > > question is: Is Rh 6.2 going to so much faster on this machine that's > > it's going to be worth my daughter being without a computer for a month > > while I try to get it to do what 7.3 will do right out of the box? > > > > Please, spare the other hundreds of people on the list, the "Gee, Chris, > > I know the answer to your problem - it's called Windows - embrace the > > Beaast." comments - or at least send it offline - thanks. > > > > Chris > > Chris, > > I have just upgraded my P233 laptop to Red Hat 8. I have 64MB of RAM, > and it too is running slowly. Definitely, I am into swap, so my second > strategy for speeding things up is more RAM. More RAM will definitely help. > My first strategy for speeding things up is to run FVWM2 instead of > Gnome or KDE. There are a couple of other small window managers out > there, but I have a long history with FVWM. There are a couple of > other FVWM freaks in this user group, so you can get help. > > There was some talk about running an FVWM demo at one of the user > meetings. Is there any more interest in this? Consider xfce4 instead. It's a lightweight, functional desktop, reminiscent of CDE. RAM hungry apps like OpenOffice or Mozilla will still be unwieldy (without a RAM upgrade) but you can run a decent desktop on this machine if you choose your components carefully. Debian is arguably a better choice for a low power machine as you have far more ready made packages to choose from; thus, you can better experiment with tradoffs between footprint and functionality. Be prepared, however, to spend a good bit of time customizing it to your liking. -- tim writer <tim-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org> starnix inc. tollfree: 1-87-pro-linux thornhill, ontario, canada http://www.starnix.com professional linux services & products -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml

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Multiple installations
by tim-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ＠public.gmane.org 20 Aug '03

20 Aug '03

"Keith Mastin" <kmastin-PzQIwG9Jn9VAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org> writes: > > When it comes to PC hardware, I really don't, therefore I have what's > > probably a ridiculous question. > > > > I set up a machine with a single hard drive partitioned to dual-boot > > between NT Workstation and SuSE Linux. I use my current Linux > > installation for all kinds of volatile stuff: trying out various SW > > packages, my own development projects.... I would like to have a > > second, bootable Linux environment on that computer that would stay > > relatively clean as a "production" server where I could demo stuff to > > clients without wondering what my latest downloads mangled. > > > > I've done this on Macs where it's as simple as adding another drive, > > installing a second copy of the system, and choosing which > > volume/partition to boot from. With PCs, however, I've heard horror > > stories from others about failing to boot because of number, location, > > or size of a given partition...or master vs. slave drives. Are there > > warnings/guidelines for what I want to do? (It sounds like it should > > be a "just do it", but others' experiences make me nervous.) > > Just do it. If there are problems they are workable. I would trust > linux/xBSD for this long before I would trust M$. You can share > filesystems between the installations. Windoh$ wants to be on the first > filesystem of the primary drive, linux really has no limitations in > comparison. Linux doesn't (care much about where it is) but some of the BSDs do. FreeBSD, for example, requires a primary partition which it slices in its own way (similar to logical partitions within an extended partition). Linux has support for FreeBSD slices but you have to be careful about layout as it (Linux) treats the slices as extended partitions. Consequently, installing FreeBSD in the wrong location on your disk can result in renumbering your Linux partitions. A good organization for triple booting Windows, Linux, and FreeBSD on one disk is: /dev/hda1 Windows /dev/hda2 extended /dev/hda3 FreeBSD (containing FreeBSD slices) /dev/hda4 unused /dev/hda5 Linux /dev/hda6 Linux ... /dev/hdaN Linux where hda5 through hdaN are your separate Linux partitions (e.g. /, swap, /var, /usr, and so on). In Linux, your M FreeBSD slices will be accessible as /dev/hdaN+1 through /dev/hdaN+M. Sometimes (e.g with older BIOSES that can't boot from a cylinder larger than 1024), it's advantageous to have a separate (small) /boot partition at the beginning of your disk, like this: /dev/hda1 /boot /dev/hda2 Windows /dev/hda3 extended /dev/hda4 FreeBSD (containing FreeBSD slices) /dev/hda5 Linux /dev/hda6 Linux ... /dev/hdaN Linux Note the placement of the extended partition (containg logical partitions used by Linux) before the FreeBSD partition. If the order was reversed, you'd have this arrangement: /dev/hda1 /boot /dev/hda2 Windows /dev/hda3 FreeBSD (containing FreeBSD slices, e.g. hda5, hda6, ... hdaM) /dev/hda4 extended /dev/hdaM+1 Linux /dev/hdaM+2 Linux ... /dev/hdaM+N Linux This can work but if you remove FreeBSD or simply boot Linux with a kernel w/o support for FreeBSD slices (such as a rescue kernel), your Linux partitions will be renumbered (starting from hda5 again). Needless to say, this can cause a lot of problems. -- tim writer <tim-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org> starnix inc. tollfree: 1-87-pro-linux thornhill, ontario, canada http://www.starnix.com professional linux services & products -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml

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Wonderful resource about IP packets and more
by plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg＠public.gmane.org 20 Aug '03

20 Aug '03

I just found this, it's a TCP/IP pocket guide in 2 page poster format: http://pw1.netcom.com/~jsnader/pg.pdf also see the page proper: http://pw1.netcom.com/~jsnader/ very nice, and I have no connection with it, Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml

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