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Non-public flag on Gmane TLUG newsgroup
by andzy-ZTO5kqT2PaM＠public.gmane.org 15 Dec '03

15 Dec '03

I'm the person who subscribed the TLUG list (Toronto Linux Users Group - gmane.org.user-groups.linux.tolug ) to Gmane back in August and I have a couple of questions for you: 1. This group is non-public (you need to subscribe to post), however Gmane doesn't bounce the message if non-subscribers try to post. I gather from the third paragraph of the 'Read-only groups' section of your 'Posting' page that Gmane should be doing this, so please make this happen. I think it would be helpful if there was a field on your list subscription form where public/non-public/read-only could be indicated. 2. The group list page has the description 'no articles; group not created yet'. This isn't correct - the list is active and the posts are showing up in Gmane. Thanks for your great service. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml

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(remote) install fest
by emmajane-MHIYrZpDPrNWk0Htik3J/w＠public.gmane.org 15 Dec '03

15 Dec '03

hi, Once I get my laptop under control again, I'll want to start working on my server. I've leased some rack space, but it has RedHat on it. I prefer Debian. I'm totally fine installing Debian, however, I've never done it remotely. I was wondering if I could bribe anyone(s) to give me a hand with this. A friend of mine is also trying to get Debian to work on his laptop. He's got the install down, but hasn't managed to get X working yet. Free coffee is about what my budget can handle these days--however, I'm sure I could also figure out some egg nog if someone else wanted to bring the rum. ;) I'm currently reading the tutorials I've found for remote installs and am waiting for debian to be declared safe again post infiltration. My apartment has wifi and a very nice coffee maker. Let me know if you're interested. emma :) -- Emma Jane Hogbin www.xtrinsic.com -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml

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More "end of the desktop PC"
by opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA＠public.gmane.org 15 Dec '03

15 Dec '03

On Mon, Dec 15, 2003 at 11:02:56PM -0500, Walter Dnes wrote: > Show-stoppers... If you aren't running broadband, forget about it. > You have to get the data into the program. This means either > downloading the program to your "set-top box", or uploading large > spreadsheets and databases to publicly accessable systems. Yeah > sure. You mean you're not willing to subsidize Bell Canada with your DSL account and with your computing needs? That's almost treasonous... :-) -- William Park, Open Geometry Consulting, <opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org> Linux solution for data management and processing. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml

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More "end of the desktop PC"
by waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw＠public.gmane.org 15 Dec '03

15 Dec '03

On Mon, Dec 15, 2003 at 11:46:23AM -0500, JoeHill wrote > > I've been reading articles like this for years now, in various forms > proclaiming that the home desktop PC is a flawed and obsolete model, > and that all of our software should be run from secure servers > instead. > > Personally, they can take my desktop when they pry it from my cold > dead hands, but I'm curious about how others see this issue. Of > course there's nothing *inherantly* wrong with relinquishing some > control to networked servers, While composing this email, I'm listening to an American Internet radio station that plays nothing but pre-Beatles rock/pop. This freaks out the CRTC (Commission for Repression and Thought Control) no small amount. When she became chair of the CRTC, Mme. Francoise Bertrand had a rant about "Canadians spending too much time visiting American websites" and by-golly, we're gonna do something about it... http://www.efc.ca/pages/media/ottawa-sun.18nov96.html Just be thankful that the web exploded and created itself in a big-bang event that caught the regulators flat-footed. Look at what happened with satellite TV. Following the same pattern, we'd now all have 9600 bps dial-up, and we'd only be allowed to view Sympatico.ca internal webpages. The CRTC has tried to "make the internet safer for children" on a couple of occasions, but gotten nowhere. However, if there only a few major servers running our programs, it'll make things "so much easier" for regulators. > but dare we trust our software when we don't have ultimate control > over it locally, especially when we are talking about proprietary, > closed source software that we cannot see what's "under the hood"? Show-stoppers... If you aren't running broadband, forget about it. You have to get the data into the program. This means either downloading the program to your "set-top box", or uploading large spreadsheets and databases to publicly accessable systems. Yeah sure. -- Walter Dnes <waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org> Email users are divided into two classes; 1) Those who have effective spam-blocking 2) Those who wish they did -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml

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ZeroInstall; application installallation Nirvana ?
by davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg＠public.gmane.org 15 Dec '03

15 Dec '03

Lloyd Budd wrote: > > On 13-Dec-03, at 19:43, David J Patrick wrote: > >> I just followed an osnews.com story and discovered ZeroInstall >> (http://zero-install.sourceforge.net/) >> I'm /floored/ by the implications. >> Does this not look like THE most brilliant approach to software >> availability ? >> ..or do I need more sleep ? > > > You probably need more sleep. This does not seem any different than > the "promise" of Java (applets), and other applet incarnations. > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > Much faster (lower level unix implimentation) requiring no Runtime Environment and capapble of running full applications, not just applets, from any avalable media; local drive, CDrom, http etc. second time the app runs from the cache, negating the need for always-on connection. and yes, I _do_ need more sleep. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml

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ZeroInstall; dare ya !
by davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg＠public.gmane.org 15 Dec '03

15 Dec '03

JoeHill wrote: >On Mon, 15 Dec 2003 18:34:04 -0500 >David J Patrick <davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org> wrote: > > > >>kernel compilin' cowboy, such as yerself. >> >> > >/joehill spews tea all over monitor > >I never cowpiled a kernel in my life...tried a coupla times, never got past >selecting the modules, hadn't the faintest idea what I was doing. > >You need a kenel module for this zeroinstsall?! Hmmm, did not know that. > > > sorry 'bout the monitor Joe, I was was just guessing that you were "the sort" what with all the consulting aspirations and such. I too must confess to membership of the "kernel kittens" club. I'm gonna learn how, dammit ! I just gotta symlink my temp directory first, see, it's a partition thing .. anyhoo. maybe future "kernel kaptains" will see fit to include this good good thing, in future distros. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml

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ZeroInstall; dare ya !
by davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg＠public.gmane.org 15 Dec '03

15 Dec '03

William Park wrote: >On Mon, Dec 15, 2003 at 06:34:04PM -0500, David J Patrick wrote: > > >>(from the website) Key Points; >> >> * Software is only ever /cached/, not /installed/. Anyone can run >> any software, and nothing is run as root. >> * Running a program is done in the same way whether it's cached or not. >> * Running cached software is as fast as running >> traditionally-installed software. >> * Zero Install is both simpler and more secure than traditional >> packaging systems. >> * Software can be removed from the cache to free space without >> affecting the behaviour of the system (it will be recached on demand). >> >>How hard could it be ? >> ok, it requires a small Linux kernel module to provide the >>/uri/0install directory, >>but that's probably a piece o cake, for a seasoned, Rox lovin', kernel >>compilin' cowboy, such as yerself. >> right ? >> >>If this thing works, as advertized, it'll change the world.. unless >>nobody "gets it". >> check it out, try it out. spread the word. >> >>(when I learn to cook up a kernel, I'm gonn go 2.6, cause Linus said to, >>and get me some 0install, >> >> > >But, how would you run Vim or LaTeX? You would have to dial out every >time you turn your computer on, no? Is that like doing network install, >every time? > > > Only the first time you use an application. After that, you got it in the cache. (this will be a much smaller PITA than the current download+install medthod) Of course, down the road _when_ this bit of super-genius takes off, a "distribution" will be nothing more than a core cache of esential apps and preconfigured pointers that will allowing any user to bootstrap any ol' online box to anything developers have made available via 0install. tell two people ! djp -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml

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ZeroInstall; dare ya !
by cbbrowne-HInyCGIudOg＠public.gmane.org 15 Dec '03

15 Dec '03

William Park wrote: > On Mon, Dec 15, 2003 at 06:34:04PM -0500, David J Patrick wrote: > > (from the website) Key Points; > > > > * Software is only ever /cached/, not /installed/. Anyone can run > > any software, and nothing is run as root. > > * Running a program is done in the same way whether it's cached or not. > > * Running cached software is as fast as running > > traditionally-installed software. > > * Zero Install is both simpler and more secure than traditional > > packaging systems. > > * Software can be removed from the cache to free space without > > affecting the behaviour of the system (it will be recached on demand). > > > > How hard could it be ? > > ok, it requires a small Linux kernel module to provide the > > /uri/0install directory, > > but that's probably a piece o cake, for a seasoned, Rox lovin', kernel > > compilin' cowboy, such as yerself. > > right ? > > > > If this thing works, as advertized, it'll change the world.. unless > > nobody "gets it". > > check it out, try it out. spread the word. > > > > (when I learn to cook up a kernel, I'm gonn go 2.6, cause Linus said to, > > and get me some 0install, > > But, how would you run Vim or LaTeX? You would have to dial out every > time you turn your computer on, no? Is that like doing network install, > every time? I suspect you missed the term "cached." If aggressive disk-based cacheing is taking place, Vim and LaTeX are already cached on your system after you run them the first time, and little if any work is needed to pull them in again. When you reboot, they are still in the cache. The really slick part of this is that if you run this way for a few weeks, you could monitor what remains cached, and take the wild guess that that set of software is probably what would be of value to install permanently on any other system. And that things that aren't in the cache aren't used often enough to be worth installing. -- output = reverse("gro.gultn" "@" "enworbbc") http://cbbrowne.com/info/linuxxian.html VERITAS AETERNA -- DON'T SETQ T. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml

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ZeroInstall; application installallation Nirvana ?
by lloyd-fEEwcc3XMu8jODpR/OX0VQ＠public.gmane.org 15 Dec '03

15 Dec '03

On 13-Dec-03, at 19:43, David J Patrick wrote: > I just followed an osnews.com story and discovered ZeroInstall > (http://zero-install.sourceforge.net/) > I'm /floored/ by the implications. > Does this not look like THE most brilliant approach to software > availability ? > ..or do I need more sleep ? You probably need more sleep. This does not seem any different than the "promise" of Java (applets), and other applet incarnations. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml

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ZeroInstall; dare ya !
by joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg＠public.gmane.org 15 Dec '03

15 Dec '03

On Mon, 15 Dec 2003 18:34:04 -0500 David J Patrick <davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org> wrote: > kernel compilin' cowboy, such as yerself. /joehill spews tea all over monitor I never cowpiled a kernel in my life...tried a coupla times, never got past selecting the modules, hadn't the faintest idea what I was doing. You need a kenel module for this zeroinstsall?! Hmmm, did not know that. -- JoeHill ++ ICQ # 280779813 Registered Linux user #282046 Homepage: www.orderinchaos.org +++++++++++++++++++++++++++ "Capitalism is the astounding belief that the most wickedest of men will do the most wickedest of things for the greatest good of everyone."-- John Maynard Keynes -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml

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