August 2003 - Legacy - lists.gtalug.org

Grub Not Starting
by tim-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ＠public.gmane.org 29 Aug '03

29 Aug '03

lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) writes: > On Fri, Aug 29, 2003 at 11:30:03AM -0400, Kareem Shehata wrote: > > Apologies in advance for the total newbie-ness of this question, but I > > can't seem to figure this one out. > > > > I've managed to shrink the ntfs partition my Inspiron shipped with > > thanks to Fraser's tip. I've set up swap on hda2 and Gentoo on hda3. I > > followed the gentoo docs on setting up grub on the MBR (hda or hd0), but > > every time it boots I get: > > > > GRUB Loading stage1.5. > > > > > > GRUB Loading, please wait... > > > > Then nothing. > > > > The good news is that I can boot both XP and Gentoo using a grub boot > > floppy and typing in my grub.conf manually. That leaves me with the > > impression that there's something wrong with the way I'm setting up > > grub. The docs said to do the following in grub: > > > root (hd0,2) > > > setup (hd0) > > > > Any ideas? > > On debian I do: grub-install /dev/hda and that's it. I don't use grub > to install grub. FWIW, on my Inspiron 1100, the hard disk is actually hdc, the CD-ROM is hda. Debian suggested this in my lilo.conf: # Overrides the default mapping between harddisk names and the BIOS' # harddisk order. Use with caution. disk=/dev/hdc bios=0x80 Perhaps Grub has a similar option or maybe you need to use hd1. Just a thought. -- tim writer <tim-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org> starnix inc. tollfree: 1-87-pro-linux thornhill, ontario, canada http://www.starnix.com professional linux services & products -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml

1 0

Drive Imaging with dd
by kareem-d+8TeBu5bOew5LPnMra/2Q＠public.gmane.org 29 Aug '03

29 Aug '03

On Fri, 2003-08-29 at 16:41, Robert Brockway wrote: > Hmm...good point. I was trying to get the dd stream non-interrupted > before sending it to gzip. How about this: > > gzip -1 `dd if=/dev/hda1 of=shuttlepod.hda1` I thing gzip has to interrupt the stream, unfortunately. Oh well, 10Mb/s is about 4x faster than the previous usb solution, and it gets better compression too. > > I'm trying to take a complete snapshot of the partition so that if > > *anything* happens, all I have to do is create the partition, dump the > > data, and boot. I'm not certain tar would capture everything, and NT/XP > > are notorious for doing interesting things with the filesystem. > > I take your point about NT/XP. I hadn't heard of any weirdness that > Linux's emulation of these filesystem types didn't cope with. Might be > worth checking into further though. > > I'm currently experimenting with tar for this purpose for the backup CD I > mentioned and I've seen no problems so far. My test system is Win98 using > vfat. With Win9x, this is definitely doable. Actually, I used to just xcopy stuff across, once upon a time. NTFS is a whole other ball of wax. Windows does all kinds of funny stuff with the filesystem, but there's good news. There's a new version of the kernel driver for ntfs that supports everything up to XP. I just did a quick google for mkntfs, and it looks as though it may be possible. > As I'm sure you're aware the problem with dd is that what you get is an > image of the filesystem, which means when you dump the image onto a new HD > you get the old filesystem back, meaning that you may not be able to > effectively use the full size of the new drive without resizing, or > something like that. > > I'm been working on the assumption that my CD will have all the tools to > make a fat/vfat filesystem when needed, and then drop the tar file > back. The CD itself will carry doco on the procedure, etc. I can't > recall offhand if I'd located a unix based tool to make an NTFS. I > actually suspect not. Is this a tool for migration or backup? I find when migrating boxes, it's best to reinstall Windows, then pour across any data. For backups, I like the idea of a drive image because I'm guaranteed to have everything on the drive, and restoring is simple. But that's just my personal preference. For less demanding users, simply throwing the tar file might do the trick. > I'll look at including dd as alternative backup mechanism. I suspect it > would have speed advantages over tar. dd is an essential tool, even if all you use it for is making floppy's or cd images. I wouldn't write scripts around it, as anyone who really needs it will know how to use it, or use Ghost4Unix. Let me know how the CD goes. Kareem -- /********************************************************************* kareem-d+8TeBu5bOew5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org - Kareem Shehata - 416-676-6611 -------------------------------------------------------------------- I may not have gone where I intended to go, but I think I have ended up where I intended to be. -- Douglas Adams ********************************************************************/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml

1 0

Drive Imaging with dd
by lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys＠public.gmane.org 29 Aug '03

29 Aug '03

On Fri, Aug 29, 2003 at 04:41:30PM -0400, Robert Brockway wrote: > Hmm...good point. I was trying to get the dd stream non-interrupted > before sending it to gzip. How about this: > > gzip -1 `dd if=/dev/hda1 of=shuttlepod.hda1` So dd send data from disk to a file, then gzip is told to use the output of dd (number of i/o's done, etc) as command line. That won't do anything useful. Perhaps dd if=/dev/hda1 bs=100k | gzip -1 > result.image.gz Lennarh Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml

1 0

Windows refund: stymied
by linux-cOjNTMaGA5U＠public.gmane.org 29 Aug '03

29 Aug '03

On Fri, Aug 29, 2003 at 04:43:33PM -0400, Herb Richter wrote: > BTW, I see a very interesting situation here: if in fact the two > contracts are separate and the first cannot bind the buyer to agree to > the second; can the buyer end up with a "legal" instance of the OS without > being obligated by the eula? As far as I understand, this is never possible. You can do all the tricks you like to avoid agreeing to the EULA, but since that's the document which grants you the permission you need to *copy the software from the hard disk to the computer's memory*, you'd no longer be allowed to do that. *That's* the reason EULAs are so ridiculous: *using* computer software is considered *copying* it, and you need explicit permission to do so. Bundled with that permission, you get all manner of restrictions. <thinking mode="wishful"> If only copyright law were phrased in such a way that you could only infringe it in the case you were giving copies to other people... </thinking> But it's not. :-( - Ian -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml

1 0

Windows refund: stymied
by hgr-FjoMob2a1F7QT0dZR+AlfA＠public.gmane.org 29 Aug '03

29 Aug '03

On Thu, 28 Aug 2003, Ian Goldberg wrote: > I spent all afternoon on the phone with Dell. It turns out the Windows > refund issue didn't even come up, because (get this), when you boot the > computer, you're presented with a *Dell* screen that forces you to say > you've read and agreed to all the EULAs for the software on the system. > > Trick is, they don't give them to you. > > No one at Dell seemed perplexed by this. I was being forced to say I've > read agreements I don't have. So we didn't even get to the bit where I > could point to the "refund" clause in the Windows EULA, since I was > never presented with it in the first place. > > The whole story: > > http://www.cypherpunks.ca/dell.html > > This is the next level above "click-through" licenses. Now, they figure > no one reads the EULAs anyway, so why bother even providing a copy? > They'll click "I've read and agreed" anyhow. I think another course will work / would have worked better... <IANAL> Depending on a few possible "gotchas"(1), and notwithstanding your "all afternoon on the phone with Dell", you should be better off taking the position that though you preferred not to have any windows on the machine, you decided that you that you might be able to utilize windows (ie with dual boot) and you really do *need* the computer running now(2), but upon viewing the windows eula you found terms that you could not agree to and that you then had to continue on and install Linux but with no working windows(3). This (probably) leaves the situation that you have a contract with Dell where they are obligated to supply a working computer but cannot without you agreeing to a second contract (the eula). Unless the original contract was clear that further terms and or conditions existed and that those terms and conditions were available for your perusal somewhere convienant *and* that they contained no unusual or unexpected terms(4), the terms of the eula would not form part of the first contract. Because "a contract to contract is not a contract", the first contract cannot require you enter into another future contract. The first contract (probably) existed and was binding upon both parties before the machine was actually received. (1) ...in your original conversation with the sales people and disclaimers or notices presented during the order process or on the final invoice (if displayed before you agreeded to complete the purchase). (2) assuming that it can be said that you were thinking this at the time. (3) your position would likely be better if Linux were not yet installed. (4) unless any unusual or unexpected terms were explained to you. </IANAL> As a business man I would now ask Dell how they intend to deliver a working computer? What provisions or policies do they have to deal with such a situation? Will they refund all your money plus compensation for your time and any other expenses and arrange for the pickup of the machine. Or will they agree to your offer to accept compensation for the value of the un-usable OS (windows) included in the purchase price? If not - I would think you would have a good shot in small claims court naming both Dell and MS as defendants. BTW, I see a very interesting situation here: if in fact the two contracts are separate and the first cannot bind the buyer to agree to the second; can the buyer end up with a "legal" instance of the OS without being obligated by the eula? -- Herb Richter <hgr-FjoMob2a1F7QT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org> Toronto, Ontario http://PartsAndService.com http://PartsAndService.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml

1 0

Windows refund: stymied
by kmastin-PzQIwG9Jn9VAFePFGvp55w＠public.gmane.org 29 Aug '03

29 Aug '03

<snip> > > I really doubt they have an agreement with MS that says that they have > to get consumers to agree to the license before they have a chance to > see it. okay, I see. This is just about that first splash screen, not about the larger issues of unfair software bundling practices. I suspect that the 2 are inexplicitly linked, but I dunno how <snip> -- Keith Mastin BeechTree Information Technology Services Inc. Toronto, Canada (416)696 6070 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml

1 0

Drive Imaging with dd
by robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy＠public.gmane.org 29 Aug '03

29 Aug '03

On Fri, 29 Aug 2003, Kareem Shehata wrote: > On Fri, 2003-08-29 at 09:08, Robert Brockway wrote: > > Have you considered: > > > > dd if=/dev/hda1 of=shuttlepod.hda1 | gzip -1 > > I'm not entirely sure what would happen there. The if and of directives > tell dd to just pipe the data to the file shuttlepod.hda1, what's left > to go to gzip? Hmm...good point. I was trying to get the dd stream non-interrupted before sending it to gzip. How about this: gzip -1 `dd if=/dev/hda1 of=shuttlepod.hda1` > I'm trying to take a complete snapshot of the partition so that if > *anything* happens, all I have to do is create the partition, dump the > data, and boot. I'm not certain tar would capture everything, and NT/XP > are notorious for doing interesting things with the filesystem. I take your point about NT/XP. I hadn't heard of any weirdness that Linux's emulation of these filesystem types didn't cope with. Might be worth checking into further though. I'm currently experimenting with tar for this purpose for the backup CD I mentioned and I've seen no problems so far. My test system is Win98 using vfat. As I'm sure you're aware the problem with dd is that what you get is an image of the filesystem, which means when you dump the image onto a new HD you get the old filesystem back, meaning that you may not be able to effectively use the full size of the new drive without resizing, or something like that. I'm been working on the assumption that my CD will have all the tools to make a fat/vfat filesystem when needed, and then drop the tar file back. The CD itself will carry doco on the procedure, etc. I can't recall offhand if I'd located a unix based tool to make an NTFS. I actually suspect not. I'll look at including dd as alternative backup mechanism. I suspect it would have speed advantages over tar. > I'd be interested in giving it a shot. One more tool can only be a good > thing. Definately. Cheers, Rob -- Robert Brockway B.Sc. email: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org, zzbrock at uqconnect.net Linux counter project ID #16440 (http://counter.li.org) "The earth is but one country and mankind its citizens" -Baha'u'llah -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml

1 0

The most recent meeting
by robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy＠public.gmane.org 29 Aug '03

29 Aug '03

On Fri, 29 Aug 2003, Mike Kallies wrote: > Damn, I'm sorry I missed this. > > http://linuxtoday.com/news_story.php3?ltsn=2003-08-29-008-26-OP-CY-MS > > I have these visions of some poor journalist standing at the front of an > auditorium with his notebook on a podium with 50 people yelling stuff > like "run ldconfig!", "Pick the frame buffer X driver!", "No, the OTHER > left mouse button!", "You need devfs for that to work!", "'ln' dash 's', > no! 'ln' _space_ dash 's'!" That was _exactly_ what it was like - are you sure you didn't attend? :) Rob -- Robert Brockway B.Sc. email: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org, zzbrock at uqconnect.net Linux counter project ID #16440 (http://counter.li.org) "The earth is but one country and mankind its citizens" -Baha'u'llah -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml

1 0

Windows refund: stymied
by linux-cOjNTMaGA5U＠public.gmane.org 29 Aug '03

29 Aug '03

On Fri, Aug 29, 2003 at 03:37:25PM -0400, Keith Mastin wrote: > > > On Thu, 2003-08-28 at 21:54, Ian Goldberg wrote: > >> The whole story: > >> > >> http://www.cypherpunks.ca/dell.html > > > > This is now on /. A good opportunity to muster ppl if any linux.ca + > > response to Dell + is desired. > > > > Cheers, > > Lloyd + > > I agree to where I've been sseing this thread going, but I have a question... > > Where will this all lead to? We send a petition, they look at it and > dismiss it because they have an agreement that stipulates they sell all > desktop systems with M$ software pre-installed. > > Are we asking them to break that agreement? What is their incentive to do > it voluntarily? A bunch of people screaming unfair business practices > isn't nearly as potent as one individual in court screaming no fair. > > Dell is a business, so they make decisions based on the bottom line. M$ > must have offered them something (or the appearance of something?) in the > agreement they have together, and locked them in hard with a bunch of > fancy legal mumbo-jumbo. > > The opensource community has to have something that they can see in their > future bottom line or they won't budge. Why should they if it isn't > plesing to shareholders? > > That's my thoughts on all this... Ian? Seems the ball's in your court. > what's your thoughts on the goal for a final outcome of all this? I really doubt they have an agreement with MS that says that they have to get consumers to agree to the license before they have a chance to see it. Kat's suspicion is that when the first license screen you saw was the MS license one (that contained the "return for a refund" clause), they were getting bothered by people trying to do that. So they put this screen up first. Now, by the time you ever _see_ the "return for a refund" clause, you've already agreed to the license. [My first /.ing! :-) ] I'd love it if they just removed the logically impossible requirement at boot. Simply displaying the EULAs to which the user needs to agree would be sufficient. (Well, and I'd like leads on laptops in the CA$1500-CA$2000 range that run Linux.) Thanks, - Ian -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml

1 0

Windows refund: stymied
by kmastin-PzQIwG9Jn9VAFePFGvp55w＠public.gmane.org 29 Aug '03

29 Aug '03

> On Thu, 2003-08-28 at 21:54, Ian Goldberg wrote: >> The whole story: >> >> http://www.cypherpunks.ca/dell.html > > This is now on /. A good opportunity to muster ppl if any linux.ca + > response to Dell + is desired. > > Cheers, > Lloyd + I agree to where I've been sseing this thread going, but I have a question... Where will this all lead to? We send a petition, they look at it and dismiss it because they have an agreement that stipulates they sell all desktop systems with M$ software pre-installed. Are we asking them to break that agreement? What is their incentive to do it voluntarily? A bunch of people screaming unfair business practices isn't nearly as potent as one individual in court screaming no fair. Dell is a business, so they make decisions based on the bottom line. M$ must have offered them something (or the appearance of something?) in the agreement they have together, and locked them in hard with a bunch of fancy legal mumbo-jumbo. The opensource community has to have something that they can see in their future bottom line or they won't budge. Why should they if it isn't plesing to shareholders? That's my thoughts on all this... Ian? Seems the ball's in your court. what's your thoughts on the goal for a final outcome of all this? -- Keith Mastin BeechTree Information Technology Services Inc. Toronto, Canada (416)696 6070 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml

1 0