December 2003 - Legacy - lists.gtalug.org

More "end of the desktop PC"
by waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw＠public.gmane.org 15 Dec '03

15 Dec '03

On Mon, Dec 15, 2003 at 11:46:23AM -0500, JoeHill wrote > > I've been reading articles like this for years now, in various forms > proclaiming that the home desktop PC is a flawed and obsolete model, > and that all of our software should be run from secure servers > instead. > > Personally, they can take my desktop when they pry it from my cold > dead hands, but I'm curious about how others see this issue. Of > course there's nothing *inherantly* wrong with relinquishing some > control to networked servers, While composing this email, I'm listening to an American Internet radio station that plays nothing but pre-Beatles rock/pop. This freaks out the CRTC (Commission for Repression and Thought Control) no small amount. When she became chair of the CRTC, Mme. Francoise Bertrand had a rant about "Canadians spending too much time visiting American websites" and by-golly, we're gonna do something about it... http://www.efc.ca/pages/media/ottawa-sun.18nov96.html Just be thankful that the web exploded and created itself in a big-bang event that caught the regulators flat-footed. Look at what happened with satellite TV. Following the same pattern, we'd now all have 9600 bps dial-up, and we'd only be allowed to view Sympatico.ca internal webpages. The CRTC has tried to "make the internet safer for children" on a couple of occasions, but gotten nowhere. However, if there only a few major servers running our programs, it'll make things "so much easier" for regulators. > but dare we trust our software when we don't have ultimate control > over it locally, especially when we are talking about proprietary, > closed source software that we cannot see what's "under the hood"? Show-stoppers... If you aren't running broadband, forget about it. You have to get the data into the program. This means either downloading the program to your "set-top box", or uploading large spreadsheets and databases to publicly accessable systems. Yeah sure. -- Walter Dnes <waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org> Email users are divided into two classes; 1) Those who have effective spam-blocking 2) Those who wish they did -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml

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ZeroInstall; application installallation Nirvana ?
by davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg＠public.gmane.org 15 Dec '03

15 Dec '03

Lloyd Budd wrote: > > On 13-Dec-03, at 19:43, David J Patrick wrote: > >> I just followed an osnews.com story and discovered ZeroInstall >> (http://zero-install.sourceforge.net/) >> I'm /floored/ by the implications. >> Does this not look like THE most brilliant approach to software >> availability ? >> ..or do I need more sleep ? > > > You probably need more sleep. This does not seem any different than > the "promise" of Java (applets), and other applet incarnations. > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > Much faster (lower level unix implimentation) requiring no Runtime Environment and capapble of running full applications, not just applets, from any avalable media; local drive, CDrom, http etc. second time the app runs from the cache, negating the need for always-on connection. and yes, I _do_ need more sleep. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml

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ZeroInstall; dare ya !
by davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg＠public.gmane.org 15 Dec '03

15 Dec '03

JoeHill wrote: >On Mon, 15 Dec 2003 18:34:04 -0500 >David J Patrick <davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org> wrote: > > > >>kernel compilin' cowboy, such as yerself. >> >> > >/joehill spews tea all over monitor > >I never cowpiled a kernel in my life...tried a coupla times, never got past >selecting the modules, hadn't the faintest idea what I was doing. > >You need a kenel module for this zeroinstsall?! Hmmm, did not know that. > > > sorry 'bout the monitor Joe, I was was just guessing that you were "the sort" what with all the consulting aspirations and such. I too must confess to membership of the "kernel kittens" club. I'm gonna learn how, dammit ! I just gotta symlink my temp directory first, see, it's a partition thing .. anyhoo. maybe future "kernel kaptains" will see fit to include this good good thing, in future distros. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml

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ZeroInstall; dare ya !
by davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg＠public.gmane.org 15 Dec '03

15 Dec '03

William Park wrote: >On Mon, Dec 15, 2003 at 06:34:04PM -0500, David J Patrick wrote: > > >>(from the website) Key Points; >> >> * Software is only ever /cached/, not /installed/. Anyone can run >> any software, and nothing is run as root. >> * Running a program is done in the same way whether it's cached or not. >> * Running cached software is as fast as running >> traditionally-installed software. >> * Zero Install is both simpler and more secure than traditional >> packaging systems. >> * Software can be removed from the cache to free space without >> affecting the behaviour of the system (it will be recached on demand). >> >>How hard could it be ? >> ok, it requires a small Linux kernel module to provide the >>/uri/0install directory, >>but that's probably a piece o cake, for a seasoned, Rox lovin', kernel >>compilin' cowboy, such as yerself. >> right ? >> >>If this thing works, as advertized, it'll change the world.. unless >>nobody "gets it". >> check it out, try it out. spread the word. >> >>(when I learn to cook up a kernel, I'm gonn go 2.6, cause Linus said to, >>and get me some 0install, >> >> > >But, how would you run Vim or LaTeX? You would have to dial out every >time you turn your computer on, no? Is that like doing network install, >every time? > > > Only the first time you use an application. After that, you got it in the cache. (this will be a much smaller PITA than the current download+install medthod) Of course, down the road _when_ this bit of super-genius takes off, a "distribution" will be nothing more than a core cache of esential apps and preconfigured pointers that will allowing any user to bootstrap any ol' online box to anything developers have made available via 0install. tell two people ! djp -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml

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ZeroInstall; dare ya !
by cbbrowne-HInyCGIudOg＠public.gmane.org 15 Dec '03

15 Dec '03

William Park wrote: > On Mon, Dec 15, 2003 at 06:34:04PM -0500, David J Patrick wrote: > > (from the website) Key Points; > > > > * Software is only ever /cached/, not /installed/. Anyone can run > > any software, and nothing is run as root. > > * Running a program is done in the same way whether it's cached or not. > > * Running cached software is as fast as running > > traditionally-installed software. > > * Zero Install is both simpler and more secure than traditional > > packaging systems. > > * Software can be removed from the cache to free space without > > affecting the behaviour of the system (it will be recached on demand). > > > > How hard could it be ? > > ok, it requires a small Linux kernel module to provide the > > /uri/0install directory, > > but that's probably a piece o cake, for a seasoned, Rox lovin', kernel > > compilin' cowboy, such as yerself. > > right ? > > > > If this thing works, as advertized, it'll change the world.. unless > > nobody "gets it". > > check it out, try it out. spread the word. > > > > (when I learn to cook up a kernel, I'm gonn go 2.6, cause Linus said to, > > and get me some 0install, > > But, how would you run Vim or LaTeX? You would have to dial out every > time you turn your computer on, no? Is that like doing network install, > every time? I suspect you missed the term "cached." If aggressive disk-based cacheing is taking place, Vim and LaTeX are already cached on your system after you run them the first time, and little if any work is needed to pull them in again. When you reboot, they are still in the cache. The really slick part of this is that if you run this way for a few weeks, you could monitor what remains cached, and take the wild guess that that set of software is probably what would be of value to install permanently on any other system. And that things that aren't in the cache aren't used often enough to be worth installing. -- output = reverse("gro.gultn" "@" "enworbbc") http://cbbrowne.com/info/linuxxian.html VERITAS AETERNA -- DON'T SETQ T. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml

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ZeroInstall; application installallation Nirvana ?
by lloyd-fEEwcc3XMu8jODpR/OX0VQ＠public.gmane.org 15 Dec '03

15 Dec '03

On 13-Dec-03, at 19:43, David J Patrick wrote: > I just followed an osnews.com story and discovered ZeroInstall > (http://zero-install.sourceforge.net/) > I'm /floored/ by the implications. > Does this not look like THE most brilliant approach to software > availability ? > ..or do I need more sleep ? You probably need more sleep. This does not seem any different than the "promise" of Java (applets), and other applet incarnations. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml

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ZeroInstall; dare ya !
by joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg＠public.gmane.org 15 Dec '03

15 Dec '03

On Mon, 15 Dec 2003 18:34:04 -0500 David J Patrick <davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org> wrote: > kernel compilin' cowboy, such as yerself. /joehill spews tea all over monitor I never cowpiled a kernel in my life...tried a coupla times, never got past selecting the modules, hadn't the faintest idea what I was doing. You need a kenel module for this zeroinstsall?! Hmmm, did not know that. -- JoeHill ++ ICQ # 280779813 Registered Linux user #282046 Homepage: www.orderinchaos.org +++++++++++++++++++++++++++ "Capitalism is the astounding belief that the most wickedest of men will do the most wickedest of things for the greatest good of everyone."-- John Maynard Keynes -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml

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ZeroInstall; dare ya !
by opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA＠public.gmane.org 15 Dec '03

15 Dec '03

On Mon, Dec 15, 2003 at 06:34:04PM -0500, David J Patrick wrote: > (from the website) Key Points; > > * Software is only ever /cached/, not /installed/. Anyone can run > any software, and nothing is run as root. > * Running a program is done in the same way whether it's cached or not. > * Running cached software is as fast as running > traditionally-installed software. > * Zero Install is both simpler and more secure than traditional > packaging systems. > * Software can be removed from the cache to free space without > affecting the behaviour of the system (it will be recached on demand). > > How hard could it be ? > ok, it requires a small Linux kernel module to provide the > /uri/0install directory, > but that's probably a piece o cake, for a seasoned, Rox lovin', kernel > compilin' cowboy, such as yerself. > right ? > > If this thing works, as advertized, it'll change the world.. unless > nobody "gets it". > check it out, try it out. spread the word. > > (when I learn to cook up a kernel, I'm gonn go 2.6, cause Linus said to, > and get me some 0install, But, how would you run Vim or LaTeX? You would have to dial out every time you turn your computer on, no? Is that like doing network install, every time? -- William Park, Open Geometry Consulting, <opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org> Linux solution for data management and processing. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml

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ZeroInstall; dare ya !
by davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg＠public.gmane.org 15 Dec '03

15 Dec '03

JoeHill wrote: >On Sun, 14 Dec 2003 22:16:36 -0500 >David J Patrick <davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org> wrote: > > > >>Try it Joe, try it ! >>Rox rocks ! and ZeroInstall looks easy as pie. >> >> > >I already use ROX...no need for installing again :-) > >Best file manager on the planet, that's for sure though. > > > c'mon Joe.. (from the website) Key Points; * Software is only ever /cached/, not /installed/. Anyone can run any software, and nothing is run as root. * Running a program is done in the same way whether it's cached or not. * Running cached software is as fast as running traditionally-installed software. * Zero Install is both simpler and more secure than traditional packaging systems. * Software can be removed from the cache to free space without affecting the behaviour of the system (it will be recached on demand). How hard could it be ? ok, it requires a small Linux kernel module to provide the /uri/0install directory, but that's probably a piece o cake, for a seasoned, Rox lovin', kernel compilin' cowboy, such as yerself. right ? If this thing works, as advertized, it'll change the world.. unless nobody "gets it". check it out, try it out. spread the word. (when I learn to cook up a kernel, I'm gonn go 2.6, cause Linus said to, and get me some 0install, djp -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml

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spinning out of control :)
by jzygmont-tEQKYFGiemxAYG7eUwYNkWD2FQJk+8+b＠public.gmane.org 15 Dec '03

15 Dec '03

Actually I was just looking for a regular 3.5" drive for a PC. I thought there might be a lot of people around with old spares. If anyone has one they're willing to sell, please let me know. They seem to be a bit harder to find than I thought. On Mon, 15 Dec 2003, Madison Kelly wrote: > I am sure they do. If not though, I am pretty sure I do. Do you know if > you want/need a 12mm, 9mm or 4.5mm thick 2.5" drives? > > Madison > > PS - 9mm is the most common thickness > > Justin Zygmont wrote: > > >does your supplier have 2-4GB hardrives by any chance? :) I still can't > >find one, and below all electronics on Bloor st. is a bad choice. > > > > > >On Mon, 15 Dec 2003, Madison Kelly wrote: > > > > > > > >>Hi Emma, > >> > >> I called my supplier and they are pretty sure they have it in stock > >>for ~$10/15. There are a couple different types though so he suggested > >>(and I agree) that it would be best if I looked at the fan's part number > >>before going to get it. That said, if you would like me to swap that for > >>you e-mail me off the list and we can work out a time to meet so that I > >>can get that part number and then later to actually swap the fan out. > >> > >> Sound good? Talk to you later! > >> > >>Madison > >> > >>Emma Jane Hogbin wrote: > >> > >> > >> > >>>On Sun, Dec 14, 2003 at 05:17:59PM -0500, Madison Kelly wrote: > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>>>Be very careful trying to take it apart. There are a lot of little bits > >>>>with wires connected to them that can be torn easily (ie: the cable to the > >>>>touchpad is a usual issue). Unfortunately it is too late today to call for > >>>>parts so I will have to call tomorrow (which I will). Once I locate a fan > >>>>it would be a pretty easy job to swap out. > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>I've given up trying for tonight. I'm trying to ignore the dull roar and > >>>the tingling in my fingers from resting my hands on the keyboard--bad form > >>>comes back to bite me in the tinglies. :) > >>> > >>>Thanks so much for your help! Let me know how you fare tomorrow with > >>>finding a new fan. > >>> > >>>emma :) > >>> > >>> > >>> > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml

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