December 2003 - Legacy - lists.gtalug.org

Data recovery emergency on a downed server... Help please!!
by tenger-ew0EfhANLmVEfu+5ix1nRw＠public.gmane.org 31 Dec '03

31 Dec '03

At 12:55 2003-12-31 -0500, Wil McGilvery wrote: > > I have not heard of anyone successfully using cd's for backup purposes, but I do know of people using removable hard drives as an alternate to tape backups. > I have been using CDs for a while now. Quite frankly, the cost of writer and media was the motivating factor, and I thought that tape would be "better". However, the earlier comments here make me think maybe I made a lucky choice. The backup CDs carried me through one recovery after I hosed my system quite thoroughly, and every month or so they save me after a slip of the brain. But, now that you mention it, it *is* time to test complete recovery again. BTW, I have Windows and Linux machines at my desk. I find myself moveing more and more to the Linux box just because my Linux backup procedure is easy enough that I can run it frequently. Terry. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml

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<OT> What I really wanted for Christmas
by wmcgilvery-6d3DWWOeJtE＠public.gmane.org 31 Dec '03

31 Dec '03

I am currently looking at Samsung Contact, Bynari and Communigate Pro as possible replacement solutions to our Exchange server and I would be interested in hearing from any one who is using these programs. I am not looking at replacing Outlook at this time. I would also be interested in hearing from anyone who is using a combination of IMAP and a scheduling tool to replace the scheduling feature of Exchange. Regards, Wil McGilvery Manager Lynch Digital Media Inc 416-744-7949 416-716-3964 (cell) 1-866-314-4678 416-744-0406? FAX www.LynchDigital.com -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml

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Data recovery emergency on a downed server... Help please!!
by wmcgilvery-6d3DWWOeJtE＠public.gmane.org 31 Dec '03

31 Dec '03

I find DAT tapes to be a waste of time and energy. I do find DLT and Ultruim tapes to be a reliable source for backing up data. These are more expensive that dat tapes but you get what you pay for. Backups in my opinion will never be a set it and forget it procedure. Periodic restores are necessary for peace of and the assurance that you can restore when necessary. It is also important to regularly clean your tape drives. I have not heard of anyone successfully using cd's for backup purposes, but I do know of people using removable hard drives as an alternate to tape backups. Good Luck. Regards, Wil McGilvery Manager Lynch Digital Media Inc 416-744-7949 416-716-3964 (cell) 1-866-314-4678 416-744-0406? FAX www.LynchDigital.com -----Original Message----- From: Madison Kelly [mailto:linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org] Sent: Wednesday, December 31, 2003 12:49 PM To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Data recovery emergency on a downed server... Help please!! I have been hearing over and over again how tape drives are far less reliable than I once believed... I am now giving serious thought to alternative backup schemes but I -have- to find something that will be easy to maintain lest user apathy kick in and the backups stop occuring. So far, I have helped negate the nee for a future recovery a certain amount by implementing a RAID1 mirror however that will do nothing to prevent more than a single disk failure. I have thought about DVD-/+RW drives but that would require more effort on the part of the users; see above fear. Finally, I have been thinking about getting a collection of laptop-size HDD and placing them into external USB2.0-powered chassis and writting a script to do the copy. This would allow for a simple swap of a chassis each day and would be a lot faster, to boot. The only fear there is the initial setup cost. As for the superblock; if I was more confident in my own abilities I would have tried exactly that. The problem is that the last PC actually lost the drive indicating a hardware failure. Given the value of the data, I was not willing to risk any further proding by me. If the data is recovered and the original drive is still intact than for practice I will try just that. Again, I can't express enough how much I appreciate all the help everyone has given me in this!! Madison (who has finally gotten herself a good night's sleep!!) Kevin Cozens wrote: > At 12:23 AM 12/29/2003 -0500, Madison wrote: > >> I have had a drive failure on a server and I can no longer mount the >> data partition on the hard drive (/dev/hda5 [ext3 under RH7.3]) because >> the replacement server (Fedora Core 1) claims that the drive's >> superblock is toast. > > > Sorry to hear about your hard drive and tape drive problems. Hopefully > the recovery service will be able to help you. As was suggested earlier > I was wondering if using one of the other superblocks would have helped > you recover the files if the primary superblock was bad. > >> Now, before anyone rips me a new one, I -DO- have a tape drive but >> that, >> too, has rather depressingly failed. When I try to recover the files >> from the IDE Travan 8GB drive it successdully recovers about 50 files >> and then fails with this... > > > I don't have anything against using tape for backups but I do have > something against tape drives. I have had four tape drives die on me. > Actually, it was three drives. The fourth drive was made up of the two > main pieces of two other identical drives that had previously failed in > different ways. None of the drives had seen heavy usage. In fact, they > had each been used for barely a dozen or so backups (IIRC). > > This is why I am now looking at the use of DVDs for backup. I already > have software that allows me to backup everything in my Windows side of > the machine to DVD. It backed up a bit over 6G on to two DVDs and the > bonus is that they are bootable so I can recover from bare metal > directly from the DVDs. I'm hoping to eventually be able to do something > similar under Linux. > > One other difference between the use of tape and CD/DVD for backup is > that the CD/DVD drives (AFAIK) are a lot cheaper to buy/replace should > something happen to the drive. There is a place I know of which can > repair the tape drives I have at a flat fee of $350 per drive. Only > problem is, I don't have confidence that a repaired drive would last any > longer then the new ones did. > > > Cheers! > > Kevin. (http://www.interlog.com/~kcozens/) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml

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Data recovery emergency on a downed server... Help please!!
by linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ＠public.gmane.org 31 Dec '03

31 Dec '03

I have been hearing over and over again how tape drives are far less reliable than I once believed... I am now giving serious thought to alternative backup schemes but I -have- to find something that will be easy to maintain lest user apathy kick in and the backups stop occuring. So far, I have helped negate the nee for a future recovery a certain amount by implementing a RAID1 mirror however that will do nothing to prevent more than a single disk failure. I have thought about DVD-/+RW drives but that would require more effort on the part of the users; see above fear. Finally, I have been thinking about getting a collection of laptop-size HDD and placing them into external USB2.0-powered chassis and writting a script to do the copy. This would allow for a simple swap of a chassis each day and would be a lot faster, to boot. The only fear there is the initial setup cost. As for the superblock; if I was more confident in my own abilities I would have tried exactly that. The problem is that the last PC actually lost the drive indicating a hardware failure. Given the value of the data, I was not willing to risk any further proding by me. If the data is recovered and the original drive is still intact than for practice I will try just that. Again, I can't express enough how much I appreciate all the help everyone has given me in this!! Madison (who has finally gotten herself a good night's sleep!!) Kevin Cozens wrote: > At 12:23 AM 12/29/2003 -0500, Madison wrote: > >> I have had a drive failure on a server and I can no longer mount the >> data partition on the hard drive (/dev/hda5 [ext3 under RH7.3]) because >> the replacement server (Fedora Core 1) claims that the drive's >> superblock is toast. > > > Sorry to hear about your hard drive and tape drive problems. Hopefully > the recovery service will be able to help you. As was suggested earlier > I was wondering if using one of the other superblocks would have helped > you recover the files if the primary superblock was bad. > >> Now, before anyone rips me a new one, I -DO- have a tape drive but >> that, >> too, has rather depressingly failed. When I try to recover the files >> from the IDE Travan 8GB drive it successdully recovers about 50 files >> and then fails with this... > > > I don't have anything against using tape for backups but I do have > something against tape drives. I have had four tape drives die on me. > Actually, it was three drives. The fourth drive was made up of the two > main pieces of two other identical drives that had previously failed in > different ways. None of the drives had seen heavy usage. In fact, they > had each been used for barely a dozen or so backups (IIRC). > > This is why I am now looking at the use of DVDs for backup. I already > have software that allows me to backup everything in my Windows side of > the machine to DVD. It backed up a bit over 6G on to two DVDs and the > bonus is that they are bootable so I can recover from bare metal > directly from the DVDs. I'm hoping to eventually be able to do something > similar under Linux. > > One other difference between the use of tape and CD/DVD for backup is > that the CD/DVD drives (AFAIK) are a lot cheaper to buy/replace should > something happen to the drive. There is a place I know of which can > repair the tape drives I have at a flat fee of $350 per drive. Only > problem is, I don't have confidence that a repaired drive would last any > longer then the new ones did. > > > Cheers! > > Kevin. (http://www.interlog.com/~kcozens/) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml

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Kernel 2.6 compile: Comaptability?
by kcozens-qazKcTl6WRFWk0Htik3J/w＠public.gmane.org 31 Dec '03

31 Dec '03

At 08:02 PM 12/26/2003 -0500, Paul King wrote: >An earlier poster posed what was a good issue: that I ought to check my >software for compatability with the kernel. OK, so I try to check, but >the compatability list doesn't appear to be in its usual place. Anyone >know where this stuff is? I don't know where the 'usual place' is supposed to be. Since I wanted to get the 2.6 kernel running on my own machine I looked in to this and found a simple answer. Take a look at the Changes file under the Documentation directory of the 2.6.0 kernel source tree. It lists everything you might need to update and what minimum version you should have. On my RH9 machine, I only needed to update procps and install the module-init-tools (replaces modtools). I still have some issues regarding my Terayon Cable modem which I access via the USB port. I haven't found out how to get a CDCEther module yet (which may not be the right thing to use with my cable modem but it works under 2.4), the sound system, and being able to have it shut the power off to my computer when I ask it to, but I have been able to boot a 2.6 kernel. Cheers! Kevin. (http://www.interlog.com/~kcozens/) Owner of Elecraft K2 #2172 |"What are we going to do today, Borg?" E-mail:kcozens at interlog dot com|"Same thing we always do, Pinkutus: Packet:ve3syb-XXPEJ3/fxIc at public.gmane.org#con.on.ca.na| Try to assimilate the world!" #include <disclaimer/favourite> | -Pinkutus & the Borg -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml

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Data recovery emergency on a downed server... Help please!!
by kcozens-qazKcTl6WRFWk0Htik3J/w＠public.gmane.org 31 Dec '03

31 Dec '03

At 12:23 AM 12/29/2003 -0500, Madison wrote: >I have had a drive failure on a server and I can no longer mount the >data partition on the hard drive (/dev/hda5 [ext3 under RH7.3]) because >the replacement server (Fedora Core 1) claims that the drive's >superblock is toast. Sorry to hear about your hard drive and tape drive problems. Hopefully the recovery service will be able to help you. As was suggested earlier I was wondering if using one of the other superblocks would have helped you recover the files if the primary superblock was bad. > Now, before anyone rips me a new one, I -DO- have a tape drive but that, >too, has rather depressingly failed. When I try to recover the files >from the IDE Travan 8GB drive it successdully recovers about 50 files >and then fails with this... I don't have anything against using tape for backups but I do have something against tape drives. I have had four tape drives die on me. Actually, it was three drives. The fourth drive was made up of the two main pieces of two other identical drives that had previously failed in different ways. None of the drives had seen heavy usage. In fact, they had each been used for barely a dozen or so backups (IIRC). This is why I am now looking at the use of DVDs for backup. I already have software that allows me to backup everything in my Windows side of the machine to DVD. It backed up a bit over 6G on to two DVDs and the bonus is that they are bootable so I can recover from bare metal directly from the DVDs. I'm hoping to eventually be able to do something similar under Linux. One other difference between the use of tape and CD/DVD for backup is that the CD/DVD drives (AFAIK) are a lot cheaper to buy/replace should something happen to the drive. There is a place I know of which can repair the tape drives I have at a flat fee of $350 per drive. Only problem is, I don't have confidence that a repaired drive would last any longer then the new ones did. Cheers! Kevin. (http://www.interlog.com/~kcozens/) Owner of Elecraft K2 #2172 |"What are we going to do today, Borg?" E-mail:kcozens at interlog dot com|"Same thing we always do, Pinkutus: Packet:ve3syb-XXPEJ3/fxIc at public.gmane.org#con.on.ca.na| Try to assimilate the world!" #include <disclaimer/favourite> | -Pinkutus & the Borg -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml

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now off topic: Formatting in C++ (fwd)
by tim-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ＠public.gmane.org 31 Dec '03

31 Dec '03

Jing Su <jingsu-26n5VD7DAF2Tm46uYYfjYg at public.gmane.org> writes: > But computer science curriculums mainly (only?) push the Thread model > when talking about concurrent execution. I've met many people that have > a hard time working with asynch event systems, which is too bad. It's > actually quite clean and simple once you get the gist of it. There's a famous quote from Alan Cox which goes something like this: Threads are for programmers who don't understand state machines. Computers are state machines. > I wonder what the software landscape would be like if curriculums started > with ObjectiveC instead of Java, and moved on to concurrent asynch events > instead of threads. I'd like to see them teach two very different languages in parallel in the first year, e.g. Java and Scheme. I suppose you could argue ObjectiveC is two very different languages rolled into one. :) -- tim writer <tim-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org> starnix inc. 905.771.0017 ext. 225 thornhill, ontario, canada http://www.starnix.com professional linux services & products -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml

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Data recovery emergency on a downed server... Help please!!
by jvetterli-zC6tqtfhjqE＠public.gmane.org 31 Dec '03

31 Dec '03

> Ilya Palagin wrote: > > For your daily backup operations, a recommend you to use star instead of > > tar. star has a nice "diff" option, which allows to verify backups. Like BTW, GNU tar has a diff option as well (tar df <filename>). JV -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml

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now off topic: Formatting in C++ (fwd)
by wildberger-iRg7kjdsKiH3fQ9qLvQP4Q＠public.gmane.org 31 Dec '03

31 Dec '03

I find it always amusing when highly intelligent people start arguing about the pros and cons of computer languages. They are all designed to fill a need to accomplish certain tasks. As people have different needs, they will use different tools. The degree of complexity is no measure for comparing one language with another. Languages evolve from simple to more complex to accommodate more and more sophisticred needs. The C++ language bears evidence to this. This makes it more valuable rather than less. For just understanding basic concepts ObjectiveC is a fine language. To all of you, Best Wishes for the New Year. John On December 31, 2003 11:45 am, Tim Writer wrote: > Jing Su <jingsu-26n5VD7DAF2Tm46uYYfjYg at public.gmane.org> writes: > > But computer science curriculums mainly (only?) push the Thread model > > when talking about concurrent execution. I've met many people that have > > a hard time working with asynch event systems, which is too bad. It's > > actually quite clean and simple once you get the gist of it. > > There's a famous quote from Alan Cox which goes something like this: > > Threads are for programmers who don't understand state machines. > Computers are state machines. > > > I wonder what the software landscape would be like if curriculums started > > with ObjectiveC instead of Java, and moved on to concurrent asynch events > > instead of threads. > > I'd like to see them teach two very different languages in parallel in the > first year, e.g. Java and Scheme. I suppose you could argue ObjectiveC is > two very different languages rolled into one. :) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml

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now off topic: Formatting in C++ (fwd)
by jingsu-26n5VD7DAF2Tm46uYYfjYg＠public.gmane.org 31 Dec '03

31 Dec '03

> I think if you can grok Java, you can handle Objective C. The object > systems are the same. Further, the same restrictions w.r.t. the types > int and char apply. The only real gotcha is that Objective C's syntax > is a touch bizarre... > > [anObject elementsPerform:aMethod]; > > ie, it looks more like smalltalk. Objective C's syntax is a message passing style. Which made me wonder... many research studies have shown that high-throughput systems run better when designed as asycnronous event systems. Thread-based systems are very hard to push at high-performance ranges. But computer science curriculums mainly (only?) push the Thread model when talking about concurrent execution. I've met many people that have a hard time working with asynch event systems, which is too bad. It's actually quite clean and simple once you get the gist of it. I wonder what the software landscape would be like if curriculums started with ObjectiveC instead of Java, and moved on to concurrent asynch events instead of threads. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml

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