From the outside, it looks as if the init system decision has taken a horrible toll on debian: <http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=MTg0MjM> Very sad.
On 17/11/14 11:55 PM, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote:
From the outside, it looks as if the init system decision has taken a horrible toll on debian: <http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=MTg0MjM> Very sad.
I would place more of the blame on the (childish) reaction from Ian and others. From what I've seen, the resignations all are based on constant abuse and stress. How easily people forget that it's a group of volunteers. -- Digimer Papers and Projects: https://alteeve.ca/w/ What if the cure for cancer is trapped in the mind of a person without access to education?
On 18 November 2014 00:48, Digimer <lists@alteeve.ca> wrote:
On 17/11/14 11:55 PM, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote:
From the outside, it looks as if the init system decision has taken a horrible toll on debian: <http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=MTg0MjM> Very sad.
I would place more of the blame on the (childish) reaction from Ian and
others. From what I've seen, the resignations all are based on constant abuse and stress.
How easily people forget that it's a group of volunteers.
From the comments from the fellow that was working on systemd packaging, Tollef Fog Heen, I think there was a further, rather broader, poisonous
Right you are... You can't expect volunteers to put up with the abuse that paid staff are paid to take. thing going on, namely that a faction of those strongly against systemd were behaving spitefully. This parallels the way a lot of political debate goes, these days; I gather that our municipal Fords were seeing a lot of abusive comments, as, doubtless, did Olivia Chow, and, based on the "it's like ISIS coming to Toronto!!!" bit, doubtless John Tory saw some of this. The "GamerGate" thing sounds like it had a dose of the same. I think I'm seeing it just about any time someone picks up a rock nearby anything that has the least bit of controversy around it; you discover that there are dreadful people saying corrosively horrible things. What's awful is that there are groups of people prepared to dump poisonous vitrol, I would think, in an attempt to convince the targets to give up and leave. It would be pretty terrible if that led to the Debian project getting severely hobbled. It's awful that people that don't like systemd (and I don't count myself too much a fan; it definitely concerns me, technically) aren't trying to do things that are helpful to the project, but rather pouring acid into the works. I'm potentially an "opponent of systemd in Debian"; I don't want the vitrol-pourers that were harassing Tollef Fog Heen to be imagined to be part of "my side". I don't want that nonsense associated with me. -- When confronted by a difficult problem, solve it by reducing it to the question, "How would the Lone Ranger handle this?"
Agreed, Chris. And I'm not really even a Debian fan, let alone systemd. Even though I use both. Gordon On Tue, 2014-11-18 at 11:40 -0500, Christopher Browne wrote:
On 18 November 2014 00:48, Digimer <lists@alteeve.ca> wrote:
On 17/11/14 11:55 PM, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote:
From the outside, it looks as if the init system decision has
taken a
horrible toll on debian:
<http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=MTg0MjM>
Very sad.
I would place more of the blame on the (childish) reaction from Ian and others. From what I've seen, the resignations all are based on constant abuse and stress.
How easily people forget that it's a group of volunteers.
Right you are...
You can't expect volunteers to put up with the abuse that paid staff are paid to take.
From the comments from the fellow that was working on systemd packaging,
Tollef Fog Heen, I think there was a further, rather broader, poisonous thing going on, namely that a faction of those strongly against systemd were behaving spitefully.
This parallels the way a lot of political debate goes, these days; I gather
that our municipal Fords were seeing a lot of abusive comments, as,
doubtless, did Olivia Chow, and, based on the "it's like ISIS coming to
Toronto!!!" bit, doubtless John Tory saw some of this.
The "GamerGate" thing sounds like it had a dose of the same.
I think I'm seeing it just about any time someone picks up a rock
nearby anything that has the least bit of controversy around it; you discover that there are dreadful people saying corrosively horrible
things.
What's awful is that there are groups of people prepared to dump poisonous vitrol, I would think, in an attempt to convince the targets to give up and leave.
It would be pretty terrible if that led to the Debian project getting
severely hobbled. It's awful that people that don't like systemd
(and I don't count myself too much a fan; it definitely concerns me, technically) aren't trying to do things that are helpful to the project, but rather pouring acid into the works.
I'm potentially an "opponent of systemd in Debian"; I don't want
the vitrol-pourers that were harassing Tollef Fog Heen to
be imagined to be part of "my side". I don't want that nonsense associated with me.
-- When confronted by a difficult problem, solve it by reducing it to the question, "How would the Lone Ranger handle this?"
--- GTALUG Talk Mailing List - talk@gtalug.org http://gtalug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
participants (4)
-
Christopher Browne -
D. Hugh Redelmeier -
Digimer -
Gordon Chillcott