OK notebook at a good price: $300, refurb / open box
<https://www.thesource.ca/en-ca/clearance/clearance/asus-x415ja-ts31-cb-14%22-notebook-with-intel%c2%ae-i3-1005g1%2c-8gb-ddr4%2c-256gb-ssd%2c-intel-uhd-graphics-windows-10-home---slate-grey---refurbished/p/108098177> These go in and out of stock. Intel® i3-1005G1: not fast but better than Atom. A little out of date. 14" FullHD (1920x1080) IPS display 8G RAM (4G is socketted so you could replace it with a larger SODIMM) 256GB eMMC (replaceable) I've actually bought three of these. Their condition was perfect. They came in the original box. I didn't notice signs that anyone had actually used them. Fedora 36 runs fine on them. And Win 11 (from slight testing). The integrated GPU is not at all powerful. That doesn't bother me. The battery life is OK, not great. Summary: a very workmanlike notebook and a very affordable price. Here's a ladder of better notebooks but they start at twice the price <https://forums.redflagdeals.com/lenovo-canada-lenovo-e14-609-e15-605-l14-823-l15-872-t14-1298-ryzen-5-8gb-256gb-prices-higher-without-id-me-2573429/#p36704157> Cheaper notebooks are usually Atom-based and skimp on things that matter. - eMMC flash as disk memory slows the system down - 64GB of disk is constraining (usable but limiting) - 4GB of RAM is OK but seems to curtail the number of browser tabs you can have open - Atom CPUs range from dog slow to slow. + these systems are sometime fanless and sometimes have long battery runs.
On 2022-10-23 18:21, D. Hugh Redelmeier via talk wrote:
Currently only listed with Canadian French keyboards, which are great if you don't touch-type. Stewart
On 2022-10-23 21:10, Stewart C. Russell via talk wrote:
On 2022-10-23 18:21, D. Hugh Redelmeier via talk wrote:
Currently only listed with Canadian French keyboards, which are great if you don't touch-type.
Touch type or not, I just hate French keyboard. My fingers only recognize US keyboard.
On 2022-10-23 22:17, William Park via talk wrote:
Currently only listed with Canadian French keyboards, which are great if you don't touch-type.
Touch type or not, I just hate French keyboard. My fingers only recognize US keyboard.
I recently bought a Lenovo Chromebook which has a U.S. international keyboard. It's the same layout as the normal U.S. keyboard, but it has several extra characters, accessed by using the Alt Gr key. I've had my keyboard configured that way for years. For example, it's easy for me to type a ³ or á, etc.. BTW, back when I was at IBM, in the late 90s, in my testing I often found myself using an English keyboard on a French system, or French on English. Lots of "fun". 😉
On Sun, 23 Oct 2022 at 21:10, Stewart C. Russell via talk <talk@gtalug.org> wrote:
Currently only listed with Canadian French keyboards
It actually says "French Bilingual" keyboard, which is likely the Canadian English/French bilingual layout. If it is, I consider this a bonus. I have these on my desktop and most used laptop. With Ubuntu Linux it defaults to English, with all key symbols matching a standard US English keyboard and you can touch-type as such. By simply pressing "Windows Key"+Space, it switches to French mode, with the additional or alternative key symbols activated, giving easy access to this whole range of symbols using the "Alt Gr" key. You could touch-type if familiar with the Canadian French layout. Another press of "Windows Key"+Space toggles back to English layout. The current selection is shown on the status bar and can be selected from there as an alternative. https://superuser.com/questions/1308515/what-is-the-bilingual-canadian-keybo... -- Scott
| From: Scott Allen via talk <talk@gtalug.org> | It actually says "French Bilingual" keyboard, which is likely the | Canadian English/French bilingual layout. If it is, I consider this a | bonus. I have these on my desktop and most used laptop. I think that that must be correct. All the keys are where I expect them. I configure them as US layout when installing Linux. (You can install more than one layout.) The inscriptions on the key-caps are perhaps confusing since they cover english- and french-Canadian layout, without a colour code to distinguish the interpretations. I mostly touch-type. This keyboard does not confuse my fingers. | By simply pressing "Windows Key"+Space, it switches to French mode, Neat. I've never bothered to figure this out but it could be a useful feature. I'm embarrassed to say that I rarely type accented characters or or anything else beyond ASCII.
On 2022-10-24 11:54, D. Hugh Redelmeier via talk wrote:
I mostly touch-type. This keyboard does not confuse my fingers.
That's good to know. I once had a French bilingual MacBook, and it was confusing even for a non-touch typist. For all other special characters, there's always the Compose key, configuration of which is usually buried deep within your system configs. I only use (and remember) a few of them: ½ ² ₂ — – «» µ ° “” ‘’ è á ï õ ŵ ç ¢ ® ☺ …
On Mon, Oct 24, 2022 at 08:30:15AM -0400, Scott Allen via talk wrote:
It actually says "French Bilingual" keyboard, which is likely the Canadian English/French bilingual layout. If it is, I consider this a bonus. I have these on my desktop and most used laptop. With Ubuntu Linux it defaults to English, with all key symbols matching a standard US English keyboard and you can touch-type as such.
By simply pressing "Windows Key"+Space, it switches to French mode, with the additional or alternative key symbols activated, giving easy access to this whole range of symbols using the "Alt Gr" key. You could touch-type if familiar with the Canadian French layout.
Another press of "Windows Key"+Space toggles back to English layout. The current selection is shown on the status bar and can be selected from there as an alternative.
https://superuser.com/questions/1308515/what-is-the-bilingual-canadian-keybo...
Since it has the wrong shape enter key and the wrong shape left shift key, it is unusable for typing on. Wrong keys get hit all the time. -- Len Sorensen
On Tue, 25 Oct 2022 at 18:50, Lennart Sorensen <lsorense@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> wrote:
Since it has the wrong shape enter key and the wrong shape left shift key, it is unusable for typing on.
But that has nothing to do with its usability from having a Canadian English/French bilingual layout, unless they change the shape of the enter and left shift keys for US standard layout keyboards on this model. -- Scott
On Tue, Oct 25, 2022 at 07:22:44PM -0400, Scott Allen wrote:
But that has nothing to do with its usability from having a Canadian English/French bilingual layout, unless they change the shape of the enter and left shift keys for US standard layout keyboards on this model.
Any keyboard with french canadian layout has a short left shift key (and an extra key to the left of z) and a skinny vertical enter key (with another key between ' and enter). If you can order it with a US layout then it won't have any of that, although many brands don't even offer any other layout on models sold in Canada because apparently it's easier to just ship one model to the entire country that most of the country (including many in Quebec) doesn't want and despises. In fact most keyboard layouts in the world are based on the ISO layout unfortunately which sucks for those of us that learned to type on a US layout. -- Len Sorensen
| From: Lennart Sorensen via talk <talk@gtalug.org> | Any keyboard with french canadian layout has a short left shift key | (and an extra key to the left of z) and a skinny vertical enter key (with | another key between ' and enter). Looking at one of these notebooks, I see: - a US-style left shift, adjacent to z. - an enter key that is wide but not tall - left of enter is a key with 5 inscribed symbols but works as ' and " So I think that you'd be happy with the layout. To the right of the touchpad is a sticker saying why you should buy this model (like every other laptop). It is in french, with no english except for words that work in both languages ("ASUS Laptop", "SuperBattery"). BTW, I would like to be able to tell Linux about the keyboard layout matching the extra key inscriptions, but not enough to figure it out. I'm happy with telling linux that I have US layout for all practical purposes. Some of the extra inscriptions are just translations. For example the up key has an arrow and a small "PgUp / P Prec" (with an accute accent on the e). Function Shift: There is a "Fn" key, as on many notebooks. It is between the left "Ctrl" key and the left Windows key. It functions as another kind of shift key, as is usual. For example, the F1 key generates an F1 keystroke normally, but if the Fn key is held down, F1 mutes/unmutes the speaker. Most keyboards have inscriptions for the Fn-shifted function in a distinct colour. Often distinct french interpretations are in yet another colour. In this keyboard, all inscriptions are white. The Fn function can be locked by typing Fn + Esc. It can be unlocked by the same sequence. On Linux, while it is unlocked, a little LED shines through the Fn keycap. I think that this lock only affects the F1-F12 keys. I almost never use F1-F12 so I'm fairly indifferent to the default state, but having the light on is a little distracting at first. Come to think of it, the light is an easy way to see that the computer is on: the normal power lights are on the right side of the computer. The Caps Lock / Verr.Maj. key also has a light in the keycap. I never use caps lock so I only discovered this while composing this message. Function keys (top row): I'm a touch typist. The F1-F12 keys are not touch-typable so I rarely use them. The one exception: in the GNOME "Files" program (used to be called Nautilus), I use F2 frequently to rename files. (A keystroke is better than a menu item if you use it enough to remember. But discovery remains a problem.) I used to use Ctrl-Alt-F_ to switch virtual consoles but that doesn't seem to be needed and I'm not sure it works these days. Certainly Ctrl-Alt-Backspace is no longer useful. Do you use F1-F12?
On 2022-10-26 12:51, D. Hugh Redelmeier via talk wrote:
Looking at one of these notebooks, I see: - a US-style left shift, adjacent to z. - an enter key that is wide but not tall - left of enter is a key with 5 inscribed symbols but works as ' and " So I think that you'd be happy with the layout.
Does the keyboard look something like this? It's the U.S. International layout. My Chromebook uses it and I have long had my keyboards configured for it. It's easy enough to do. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_and_American_keyboards#/media/File:KB_...
On Wed, Oct 26, 2022 at 01:02:52PM -0400, James Knott via talk wrote:
Does the keyboard look something like this? It's the U.S. International layout. My Chromebook uses it and I have long had my keyboards configured for it. It's easy enough to do. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_and_American_keyboards#/media/File:KB_...
I used to have my system configured for something very similar to that. I may remember wrong but I thought it was the Dutch International Macintosh keyboard layout or something like that, which was an ANSI keyboard layout with extra keys you could access with alt-gr. These days I just use compose. More flexible and easier to remember. Let's me type lots of useful things and some less useful things too. æøå°🚇🚆¿ étc… -- Len Sørensen
On Wed, Oct 26, 2022 at 12:51:35PM -0400, D. Hugh Redelmeier via talk wrote:
Looking at one of these notebooks, I see: - a US-style left shift, adjacent to z. - an enter key that is wide but not tall - left of enter is a key with 5 inscribed symbols but works as ' and " So I think that you'd be happy with the layout.
Looking at one in real life or on the webpage? The webpage almost always uses images of a US model that is different than whey they actually sell. Every Asus (and most other brands) I have ever seen in person with a Canadian Bilingual keyboard layout (so most of the ones sold in Canada in the last number of years) looks like this one: https://laptopparts.ca/products/new-asus-ca-canadian-bilingual-keyboard-0knb0-112bcb00-ae0c8k00010?variant=39933652729943&dfw_tracker=124191-shopify_CA_6802837471319_39933652729943&gclid=Cj0KCQjwteOaBhDuARIsADBqRegQj8Sewv50k4bpLm_0jjp5HMBlRNsKC8oKEiNlhB9h-2OqbD-k898aAovlEALw_wcB Not sure how they could claim it is canadian bilingual if it is any other way although it sure would be nice if they had figured out a better layout to make. Do you have a picture?
To the right of the touchpad is a sticker saying why you should buy this model (like every other laptop). It is in french, with no english except for words that work in both languages ("ASUS Laptop", "SuperBattery").
BTW, I would like to be able to tell Linux about the keyboard layout matching the extra key inscriptions, but not enough to figure it out. I'm happy with telling linux that I have US layout for all practical purposes.
Hmm, I would think there is an option for that layout available. Of course it doesn't help that there exists both Canadian Multilingual and Canadian French layouts and they are not the same thing.
Some of the extra inscriptions are just translations. For example the up key has an arrow and a small "PgUp / P Prec" (with an accute accent on the e).
Function Shift:
There is a "Fn" key, as on many notebooks. It is between the left "Ctrl" key and the left Windows key. It functions as another kind of shift key, as is usual. For example, the F1 key generates an F1 keystroke normally, but if the Fn key is held down, F1 mutes/unmutes the speaker.
Most keyboards have inscriptions for the Fn-shifted function in a distinct colour. Often distinct french interpretations are in yet another colour. In this keyboard, all inscriptions are white.
The Fn function can be locked by typing Fn + Esc. It can be unlocked by the same sequence. On Linux, while it is unlocked, a little LED shines through the Fn keycap. I think that this lock only affects the F1-F12 keys. I almost never use F1-F12 so I'm fairly indifferent to the default state, but having the light on is a little distracting at first.
I use alt+F2 to launch programs in X, so working function keys have always been important.
Come to think of it, the light is an easy way to see that the computer is on: the normal power lights are on the right side of the computer.
The Caps Lock / Verr.Maj. key also has a light in the keycap. I never use caps lock so I only discovered this while composing this message.
Function keys (top row):
I'm a touch typist. The F1-F12 keys are not touch-typable so I rarely use them.
Yes laptop function keys have always been too small and too close to work for touch typing.
The one exception: in the GNOME "Files" program (used to be called Nautilus), I use F2 frequently to rename files. (A keystroke is better than a menu item if you use it enough to remember. But discovery remains a problem.)
I used to use Ctrl-Alt-F_ to switch virtual consoles but that doesn't seem to be needed and I'm not sure it works these days. Certainly Ctrl-Alt-Backspace is no longer useful.
Do you use F1-F12?
I think F2 is the only one I use much anymore. Well in windows alt+F4 is handy for closing a program. -- Len Sorensen
| From: Lennart Sorensen via talk <talk@gtalug.org> | On Wed, Oct 26, 2022 at 12:51:35PM -0400, D. Hugh Redelmeier via talk wrote: | > Looking at one of these notebooks, I see: | Looking at one in real life or on the webpage? Looking at one of the three I bought in real life. | The webpage almost always | uses images of a US model that is different than whey they actually sell. No problem, you cannot even make out the keyboard in the listing I posted. | Every Asus (and most other brands) I have ever seen in person with a | Canadian Bilingual keyboard layout (so most of the ones sold in Canada | in the last number of years) looks like this one: | https://laptopparts.ca/products/new-asus-ca-canadian-bilingual-keyboard-0knb0-112bcb00-ae0c8k00010?variant=39933652729943&dfw_tracker=124191-shopify_CA_6802837471319_39933652729943&gclid=Cj0KCQjwteOaBhDuARIsADBqRegQj8Sewv50k4bpLm_0jjp5HMBlRNsKC8oKEiNlhB9h-2OqbD-k898aAovlEALw_wcB Not at all like that. | Not sure how they could claim it is canadian bilingual if it is any | other way although it sure would be nice if they had figured out a better | layout to make. | | Do you have a picture? No. I could take one but I think that this list scrubs pictures from messages. Do you have a favourite pastebin-like site for pictures? Or I could send a picture to your email address.
On Wed, Oct 26, 2022 at 05:02:36PM -0400, D. Hugh Redelmeier via talk wrote:
No problem, you cannot even make out the keyboard in the listing I posted.
Certainly not with any detail.
Not at all like that.
No. I could take one but I think that this list scrubs pictures from messages.
Do you have a favourite pastebin-like site for pictures? Or I could send a picture to your email address.
Sure sending a picture to me works fine. I am curious what it actually looks like given it is apparently not like any other canadian keyboard I have seen. -- Len Sorensen
On Wed, 26 Oct 2022 at 13:36, Lennart Sorensen via talk <talk@gtalug.org> wrote:
Do you have a picture?
Here's a (hastily taken and cropped) photo of the actual keyboard for this notebook. https://drive.google.com/file/d/1UkuOAdxahQjU2uq9m_vc9e2E7OfzQTP-/view?usp=s... -- Scott
On Wed, Oct 26, 2022 at 09:56:10PM -0400, Scott Allen via talk wrote:
On Wed, 26 Oct 2022 at 13:36, Lennart Sorensen via talk <talk@gtalug.org> wrote:
Do you have a picture?
Here's a (hastily taken and cropped) photo of the actual keyboard for this notebook.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1UkuOAdxahQjU2uq9m_vc9e2E7OfzQTP-/view?usp=s...
They put the old canadian bilingual layout on it with one missing key and hence without the changes to the left shift and enter keys? How bizarre. Thanks for the picture. -- Len Sorensen
On Fri, 28 Oct 2022 at 09:54, Lennart Sorensen <lsorense@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> wrote:
They put the old canadian bilingual layout on it with one missing key and hence without the changes to the left shift and enter keys?
The missing key (that should be between left shift and Z) is for right and left double angle brackets « » and the degree symbol ° I don't use the double brackets but being able to easily enter the degree symbol is somewhat useful. -- Scott
On Fri, 28 Oct 2022 at 14:04, Scott Allen <mlxxxp@gmail.com> wrote:
The missing key (that should be between left shift and Z) is for right and left double angle brackets « » and the degree symbol °
Correction: They're not double angle brackets. They're guillemets (quotation marks). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guillemet -- Scott
On Fri, Oct 28, 2022 at 02:04:26PM -0400, Scott Allen via talk wrote:
The missing key (that should be between left shift and Z) is for right and left double angle brackets « » and the degree symbol ° I don't use the double brackets but being able to easily enter the degree symbol is somewhat useful.
I am quite happy with compose for entering such things. If I remember right degree is compose+o+o which gives ° so that seems to work. I also like that compose+?+? gives ¿ which seems to make sense to me. I imagine compose+<+< would give the desired quotation mark « and yes it does as expected. -- Len Sorensen
On 2022-10-30 10:06, Lennart Sorensen via talk wrote:
I am quite happy with compose for entering such things. If I remember right degree is compose+o+o which gives ° so that seems to work. I also like that compose+?+? gives ¿ which seems to make sense to me.
I imagine compose+<+< would give the desired quotation mark « and yes it does as expected.
Those are all available on the U.S. International keyboard. All you have to do is enable it. ° ¿ « » https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_and_American_keyboards#/media/File:KB_...
On Sun, Oct 30, 2022 at 10:14:35AM -0400, James Knott via talk wrote:
Those are all available on the U.S. International keyboard. All you have to do is enable it.
Sure, if you remember where they are. :) It would be an improvement if all US keyboards came leveled for that layout.
° ¿ « »
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_and_American_keyboards#/media/File:KB_...
How about αβψπλ etc? Are those easy to type? Of course on windows I use wincompose which has lots of extra definitions that are totally crazy such as compose+t+f giving: (ﾉಥ益ಥ）ﾉ彡┻━┻ Now sure why that is supposed to be useful. -- Len Sorensen
On 2022-10-30 11:01, Lennart Sorensen wrote:
Those are all available on the U.S. International keyboard. All you have to do is enable it. Sure, if you remember where they are. 😄
It would be an improvement if all US keyboards came leveled for that layout.
I keep a PDF of that layout on my desktop, for when I have to look up a character.
° ¿ « »
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_and_American_keyboards#/media/File:KB_... How about αβψπλ etc? Are those easy to type?
Anything that's on that layout is. Nothing to stop using the compose key for those that aren't.
Of course on windows I use wincompose which has lots of extra definitions that are totally crazy such as compose+t+f giving:
The keyboard is like this: https://www.dsi-keyboards.com/shop/accessories/language-labels/cd-languages/... I think it's just a standard US Qwerty keyboard with some additional labels on the keys. I suspect you can set it up so the right Alt button works to enter the additional characters, but I don't know how that works.
A good addition to this laptop is a keyboard cover to protect from spills. I killed the power button on my Asus Zenbook and replacing the keyboard involved replacing half the case (the half everything is bolted to, as well). Here's one I'm going to get: https://m.aliexpress.com/item/1005002934736015.html
Very nice find, thanks! I ordered one. I'm still making good use of my Asus Zenbook UX305CA suggested on the mailing list years ago.
| From: D. Hugh Redelmeier via talk <talk@gtalug.org> | Fedora 36 runs fine on them. In the interest of full disclosure: Fedora doesn't see the fingerprint reader. I forgot to mention this because I almost never want a fingerprint reader. They are convenient but I have security reservations. Worst case: I don't want any incentive for someone to chop off my finger.
participants (7)
-
D. Hugh Redelmeier -
James Knott -
Lennart Sorensen -
Scott Allen -
Stewart C. Russell -
Tim Tisdall -
William Park