Seeking help with a unique Linux project?
greetings everyone, My name is Karen. I have only recently found this LUG, and joined the talk list. I am a professional singer/ songwriter and media producer with a unique Linux goal. I wish to make use of the varied console or command line based tools in Linux for my composition work, and if possible for accessing media materials too. I use adaptive technology, which is part of why my desire is to ssh telnet into my Linux box rather than work with it directly. I tend to prefer more traditional tools. for example one sound card in this box will be an m-audio audiofile 2496 production card to which I will be attaching my music keyboard. In any case while I have some of the tools I require, and firm knowledge that my goals are possible. I have not, at least not until now, found a Linux users group in Toronto where I can get the extra wisdom required. I am very used to Linux and UNIX based shell structures. I am using one at this moment based in freedsb, to draft my email, and use another based in Ubuntu for my nonprofit media newsroom's hosting account. Such is also part of why I want to start with a comparative way to use my Linux box. I would rather begin with a foundation where I can make use of and learn more right away, than fail to use the Linux box well at all. Let me be sure my post is suitable before both asking and answering questions. Thanks in advance, Karen
Seems suitable (email) but you broke the #77 rule of email, don't start 4+ lines with capital I's, it looks like you were indenting for a reply to those lines :) I looked a bit a music+linux a while back, didn't work out so well, I had a Mac collecting dust so ...... I would just recommend google like crazy to get the most up-to-date lay of the land. You will also see some reference to "on linux" via crossover/codeweavers, and of course, that would be cheating :) -tl On Thu, Dec 10, 2015 at 7:17 PM, Karen Lewellen <klewellen@shellworld.net> wrote:
greetings everyone, My name is Karen. I have only recently found this LUG, and joined the talk list. I am a professional singer/ songwriter and media producer with a unique Linux goal. I wish to make use of the varied console or command line based tools in Linux for my composition work, and if possible for accessing media materials too. I use adaptive technology, which is part of why my desire is to ssh telnet into my Linux box rather than work with it directly. I tend to prefer more traditional tools. for example one sound card in this box will be an m-audio audiofile 2496 production card to which I will be attaching my music keyboard. In any case while I have some of the tools I require, and firm knowledge that my goals are possible. I have not, at least not until now, found a Linux users group in Toronto where I can get the extra wisdom required. I am very used to Linux and UNIX based shell structures. I am using one at this moment based in freedsb, to draft my email, and use another based in Ubuntu for my nonprofit media newsroom's hosting account. Such is also part of why I want to start with a comparative way to use my Linux box. I would rather begin with a foundation where I can make use of and learn more right away, than fail to use the Linux box well at all. Let me be sure my post is suitable before both asking and answering questions. Thanks in advance, Karen
--- Talk Mailing List talk@gtalug.org http://gtalug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
Hi, I do apologize for breaking that rule. I use a screen reader due to the experience of sight loss, so do not indent in Pine, nor can I really know how the lines appear to you laughs. Will try to be more careful as I can however. Thanks, Kare On Thu, 10 Dec 2015, ted leslie wrote:
Seems suitable (email) but you broke the #77 rule of email, don't start 4+ lines with capital I's, it looks like you were indenting for a reply to those lines :)
I looked a bit a music+linux a while back, didn't work out so well, I had a Mac collecting dust so ...... I would just recommend google like crazy to get the most up-to-date lay of the land. You will also see some reference to "on linux" via crossover/codeweavers, and of course, that would be cheating :)
-tl
On Thu, Dec 10, 2015 at 7:17 PM, Karen Lewellen <klewellen@shellworld.net> wrote:
greetings everyone, My name is Karen. I have only recently found this LUG, and joined the talk list. I am a professional singer/ songwriter and media producer with a unique Linux goal. I wish to make use of the varied console or command line based tools in Linux for my composition work, and if possible for accessing media materials too. I use adaptive technology, which is part of why my desire is to ssh telnet into my Linux box rather than work with it directly. I tend to prefer more traditional tools. for example one sound card in this box will be an m-audio audiofile 2496 production card to which I will be attaching my music keyboard. In any case while I have some of the tools I require, and firm knowledge that my goals are possible. I have not, at least not until now, found a Linux users group in Toronto where I can get the extra wisdom required. I am very used to Linux and UNIX based shell structures. I am using one at this moment based in freedsb, to draft my email, and use another based in Ubuntu for my nonprofit media newsroom's hosting account. Such is also part of why I want to start with a comparative way to use my Linux box. I would rather begin with a foundation where I can make use of and learn more right away, than fail to use the Linux box well at all. Let me be sure my post is suitable before both asking and answering questions. Thanks in advance, Karen
--- Talk Mailing List talk@gtalug.org http://gtalug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
You probably already know of Sonar project for Linux then? If not, may want to check it out. Also you may find some of the interviews (podcasts) with Jonathan Nadeau on tllts.org interesting. -tl On Thu, Dec 10, 2015 at 10:26 PM, Karen Lewellen <klewellen@shellworld.net> wrote:
Hi, I do apologize for breaking that rule. I use a screen reader due to the experience of sight loss, so do not indent in Pine, nor can I really know how the lines appear to you laughs. Will try to be more careful as I can however.
Thanks, Kare
On Thu, 10 Dec 2015, ted leslie wrote:
Seems suitable (email) but you broke the #77 rule of email, don't start 4+
lines with capital I's, it looks like you were indenting for a reply to those lines :)
I looked a bit a music+linux a while back, didn't work out so well, I had a Mac collecting dust so ...... I would just recommend google like crazy to get the most up-to-date lay of the land. You will also see some reference to "on linux" via crossover/codeweavers, and of course, that would be cheating :)
-tl
On Thu, Dec 10, 2015 at 7:17 PM, Karen Lewellen <klewellen@shellworld.net
wrote:
greetings everyone,
My name is Karen. I have only recently found this LUG, and joined the talk list. I am a professional singer/ songwriter and media producer with a unique Linux goal. I wish to make use of the varied console or command line based tools in Linux for my composition work, and if possible for accessing media materials too. I use adaptive technology, which is part of why my desire is to ssh telnet into my Linux box rather than work with it directly. I tend to prefer more traditional tools. for example one sound card in this box will be an m-audio audiofile 2496 production card to which I will be attaching my music keyboard. In any case while I have some of the tools I require, and firm knowledge that my goals are possible. I have not, at least not until now, found a Linux users group in Toronto where I can get the extra wisdom required. I am very used to Linux and UNIX based shell structures. I am using one at this moment based in freedsb, to draft my email, and use another based in Ubuntu for my nonprofit media newsroom's hosting account. Such is also part of why I want to start with a comparative way to use my Linux box. I would rather begin with a foundation where I can make use of and learn more right away, than fail to use the Linux box well at all. Let me be sure my post is suitable before both asking and answering questions. Thanks in advance, Karen
--- Talk Mailing List talk@gtalug.org http://gtalug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
--- Talk Mailing List talk@gtalug.org http://gtalug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
Hi, Cannot imagine sonar being run 100% from the command line as i require, but I can ask. I do not use windows whatsoever, and recall Sonar tends to flow graphically in general. i am really wanting to find local knowledge more than third party podcast type recordings, because at some point I imagine requiring some hands on Linux help. Thanks, Karen On Thu, 10 Dec 2015, ted leslie wrote:
You probably already know of Sonar project for Linux then? If not, may want to check it out. Also you may find some of the interviews (podcasts) with Jonathan Nadeau on tllts.org interesting. -tl
On Thu, Dec 10, 2015 at 10:26 PM, Karen Lewellen <klewellen@shellworld.net> wrote:
Hi, I do apologize for breaking that rule. I use a screen reader due to the experience of sight loss, so do not indent in Pine, nor can I really know how the lines appear to you laughs. Will try to be more careful as I can however.
Thanks, Kare
On Thu, 10 Dec 2015, ted leslie wrote:
Seems suitable (email) but you broke the #77 rule of email, don't start 4+
lines with capital I's, it looks like you were indenting for a reply to those lines :)
I looked a bit a music+linux a while back, didn't work out so well, I had a Mac collecting dust so ...... I would just recommend google like crazy to get the most up-to-date lay of the land. You will also see some reference to "on linux" via crossover/codeweavers, and of course, that would be cheating :)
-tl
On Thu, Dec 10, 2015 at 7:17 PM, Karen Lewellen <klewellen@shellworld.net
wrote:
greetings everyone,
My name is Karen. I have only recently found this LUG, and joined the talk list. I am a professional singer/ songwriter and media producer with a unique Linux goal. I wish to make use of the varied console or command line based tools in Linux for my composition work, and if possible for accessing media materials too. I use adaptive technology, which is part of why my desire is to ssh telnet into my Linux box rather than work with it directly. I tend to prefer more traditional tools. for example one sound card in this box will be an m-audio audiofile 2496 production card to which I will be attaching my music keyboard. In any case while I have some of the tools I require, and firm knowledge that my goals are possible. I have not, at least not until now, found a Linux users group in Toronto where I can get the extra wisdom required. I am very used to Linux and UNIX based shell structures. I am using one at this moment based in freedsb, to draft my email, and use another based in Ubuntu for my nonprofit media newsroom's hosting account. Such is also part of why I want to start with a comparative way to use my Linux box. I would rather begin with a foundation where I can make use of and learn more right away, than fail to use the Linux box well at all. Let me be sure my post is suitable before both asking and answering questions. Thanks in advance, Karen
--- Talk Mailing List talk@gtalug.org http://gtalug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
--- Talk Mailing List talk@gtalug.org http://gtalug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
Welcome, Karen. This is certainly a good place to ask questions about the Linux command line. I've gotten some excellent help in the past. I'm not an expert on the command line - I tend to use it as a series of recipes rather than with a deep understanding of regular expression and so on. But there are others on this list with that kind of knowledge. And we might learn something from your questions and their anwers. So ask away, and let's see if someone can help. Regards - Peter
greetings everyone, My name is Karen. I have only recently found this LUG, and joined the talk list. I am a professional singer/ songwriter and media producer with a unique Linux goal. I wish to make use of the varied console or command line based tools in Linux for my composition work, and if possible for accessing media materials too. I use adaptive technology, which is part of why my desire is to ssh telnet into my Linux box rather than work with it directly. I tend to prefer more traditional tools. for example one sound card in this box will be an m-audio audiofile 2496 production card to which I will be attaching my music keyboard. In any case while I have some of the tools I require, and firm knowledge that my goals are possible. I have not, at least not until now, found a Linux users group in Toronto where I can get the extra wisdom required. I am very used to Linux and UNIX based shell structures. I am using one at this moment based in freedsb, to draft my email, and use another based in Ubuntu for my nonprofit media newsroom's hosting account. Such is also part of why I want to start with a comparative way to use my Linux box. I would rather begin with a foundation where I can make use of and learn more right away, than fail to use the Linux box well at all. Let me be sure my post is suitable before both asking and answering questions. Thanks in advance, Karen
--- Talk Mailing List talk@gtalug.org http://gtalug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
-- Peter Hiscocks Syscomp Electronic Design Limited, Toronto http://www.syscompdesign.com USB Oscilloscope and Waveform Generator 647-839-0325
Hi Peter, I appreciate the welcome. Oddly enough the one question I can think of first is if drivers for hardware tend to remain even as the hardware ages? Again for a few reasons, I would prefer to use Debian squeeze. Yes it is a couple of generations back, but I am told that more current editions have an accessibility issue, the use of speech from the <spelling> Kernel. Granted as expressed, I do not want to use the speech itself from the machine, but use my own speech sources available to me as I ssh telnet. Still if I ever want to change this, I should be able to do as much. My sound card goal while of professional quality does go back a bit. Will I still find that Debian squeeze supports this card? thanks so much, Kare On Thu, 10 Dec 2015, phiscock@ee.ryerson.ca wrote:
Welcome, Karen.
This is certainly a good place to ask questions about the Linux command line. I've gotten some excellent help in the past. I'm not an expert on the command line - I tend to use it as a series of recipes rather than with a deep understanding of regular expression and so on. But there are others on this list with that kind of knowledge. And we might learn something from your questions and their anwers.
So ask away, and let's see if someone can help.
Regards - Peter
greetings everyone, My name is Karen. I have only recently found this LUG, and joined the talk list. I am a professional singer/ songwriter and media producer with a unique Linux goal. I wish to make use of the varied console or command line based tools in Linux for my composition work, and if possible for accessing media materials too. I use adaptive technology, which is part of why my desire is to ssh telnet into my Linux box rather than work with it directly. I tend to prefer more traditional tools. for example one sound card in this box will be an m-audio audiofile 2496 production card to which I will be attaching my music keyboard. In any case while I have some of the tools I require, and firm knowledge that my goals are possible. I have not, at least not until now, found a Linux users group in Toronto where I can get the extra wisdom required. I am very used to Linux and UNIX based shell structures. I am using one at this moment based in freedsb, to draft my email, and use another based in Ubuntu for my nonprofit media newsroom's hosting account. Such is also part of why I want to start with a comparative way to use my Linux box. I would rather begin with a foundation where I can make use of and learn more right away, than fail to use the Linux box well at all. Let me be sure my post is suitable before both asking and answering questions. Thanks in advance, Karen
--- Talk Mailing List talk@gtalug.org http://gtalug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
-- Peter Hiscocks Syscomp Electronic Design Limited, Toronto http://www.syscompdesign.com USB Oscilloscope and Waveform Generator 647-839-0325
--- Talk Mailing List talk@gtalug.org http://gtalug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
On Thu, Dec 10, 2015 at 10:35:54PM -0500, Karen Lewellen wrote:
Hi Peter, I appreciate the welcome. Oddly enough the one question I can think of first is if drivers for hardware tend to remain even as the hardware ages? Again for a few reasons, I would prefer to use Debian squeeze. Yes it is a couple of generations back, but I am told that more current editions have an accessibility issue, the use of speech from the <spelling> Kernel. Granted as expressed, I do not want to use the speech itself from the machine, but use my own speech sources available to me as I ssh telnet. Still if I ever want to change this, I should be able to do as much. My sound card goal while of professional quality does go back a bit. Will I still find that Debian squeeze supports this card?
Yes linux very rarely removes drivers for old hardware. It only happens if they are broken and no one is willing to spend the time to fix them. So tape drives connected to the floppy controller went away for example because they didn't work with SMP machines, and were a terrible hack in the first place, and pretty much no one still has one in use. My Gravis Ultrasound sound card I bought in the early 90s still has drivers in the current kernel. Now Debian squeeze is not something I would recommend, since it is long past due (in fact wheezy that replaced squeeze is about to be unsupported too since it was replaced almost a year ago by jessie). I would actually be surprised if Debian had issues with speech devices, since that seems to be one of the things they work hard to keep working, but since I don't have any such hardware and have never used any, I wouldn't know for sure. If there are issues, I am sure they would like to hear about it so it can be fixed. -- Len Sorensen
As Lennart observes, yes, indeed, Linux rarely removes drivers for old hardware, mainly when there is something broken about the driver that makes it troublesome to continue to fix it I took a peek at Linux kernels going into the moderately distant past, and the M-Audio Audiophile 2496 is based on a chipset called "Envy24" or "ICE1712", and there is a fairly sizable list of PCI sound cards using that hardware, which points to it being reasonable to expect it to be supported for a good while. I see support in both latest (4.4) and pretty old (3.18) kernels, all using a kernel module called snd-ice1712. Loui Chang's suggestions of audio tools like ffmpeg, mplayer, flac, metaflac, lame, mutagen seem likely to be helpful. Unfortunately, a lot of the literature on sound tools points towards friendly graphical tools that won't be friendly at all to anyone having difficulty seeing the screen. I suspect that this is enough of a specialty area that it may be necessary to look to a topic-related group rather than a geographically oriented group. One mailing list I can point to offhand that seems likely to be relevant is debian-accessibility, which is the place where discussions take place for accessibility-related issues on Debian. https://lists.debian.org/debian-accessibility/
Oh I have been on various Linux access list, even the Debian one for almost a decade. However at some point one requires in person help and it has taken me a very long time to find a group where that might be possible. I am thrilled to learn my sound card should be supported though. Such is one of the terrific things about Linux in general. I owe what I know about the ability for ssh telnet into the box to access lists, the talent though can only be managed locally if that makes sense. Thanks, Kare On Fri, 11 Dec 2015, Christopher Browne wrote:
As Lennart observes, yes, indeed, Linux rarely removes drivers for old hardware, mainly when there is something broken about the driver that makes it troublesome to continue to fix it
I took a peek at Linux kernels going into the moderately distant past, and the M-Audio Audiophile 2496 is based on a chipset called "Envy24" or "ICE1712", and there is a fairly sizable list of PCI sound cards using that hardware, which points to it being reasonable to expect it to be supported for a good while. I see support in both latest (4.4) and pretty old (3.18) kernels, all using a kernel module called snd-ice1712.
Loui Chang's suggestions of audio tools like ffmpeg, mplayer, flac, metaflac, lame, mutagen seem likely to be helpful. Unfortunately, a lot of the literature on sound tools points towards friendly graphical tools that won't be friendly at all to anyone having difficulty seeing the screen.
I suspect that this is enough of a specialty area that it may be necessary to look to a topic-related group rather than a geographically oriented group.
One mailing list I can point to offhand that seems likely to be relevant is debian-accessibility, which is the place where discussions take place for accessibility-related issues on Debian. https://lists.debian.org/debian-accessibility/
On Thu 10 Dec 2015 19:17 -0500, Karen Lewellen wrote:
I wish to make use of the varied console or command line based tools in Linux for my composition work, and if possible for accessing media materials too.
Command-line media tools: ffmpeg, mplayer, flac, metaflac, lame, mutagen Composition: lilypond Have a look here: http://wiki.linuxaudio.org/apps/start There are so many programs to play around with.
Such is also part of why I want to start with a comparative way to use my Linux box. I would rather begin with a foundation where I can make use of and learn more right away, than fail to use the Linux box well at all.
What do you mean by comparative way? There are so many possibilities that you always risk "failing to use it well". What's important is that things work well enough to you and you always strive for improvements.
Hi, indeed you are touching on some I intend using for sure. What I mean by comparative way is my reaching the box via ssh telnet to the command line console instead of using the box directly. this has more to do with the screen reader / speech options in Linux presently than anything else. Since I can ssh telnet already to other Linux / Unix shell structures, I want to start my use of this Linux box in the same way. This lets me concentrate on using the programs without worrying about screen reader and speech factors at the same time if that makes sense. Kare On Fri, 11 Dec 2015, Loui Chang wrote:
On Thu 10 Dec 2015 19:17 -0500, Karen Lewellen wrote:
I wish to make use of the varied console or command line based tools in Linux for my composition work, and if possible for accessing media materials too.
Command-line media tools: ffmpeg, mplayer, flac, metaflac, lame, mutagen Composition: lilypond
Have a look here: http://wiki.linuxaudio.org/apps/start There are so many programs to play around with.
Such is also part of why I want to start with a comparative way to use my Linux box. I would rather begin with a foundation where I can make use of and learn more right away, than fail to use the Linux box well at all.
What do you mean by comparative way? There are so many possibilities that you always risk "failing to use it well". What's important is that things work well enough to you and you always strive for improvements.
--- Talk Mailing List talk@gtalug.org http://gtalug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
Since you are familiar with Ubuntu, have you tried Ubuntu Studio? Lots of A/V software for creators there, including virtual multi-track mixing boards (specific name escapes me), Audacity (for multi-track audio), OpenShot (for multi-track A/V). I use Ubuntu Studio for creating my YouTube videos. Compared to Adobe Premiere Elements (Windows), I prefer OpenShot. None of the software I mentioned is console-based, but you can remotely SSH from Windows through a xterm client in Cygwin/X (ssh -Y <user@host>), and the X-windows programs should be useable in all their GUI-based glory. You need to install Cygwin/X on Windows, first. Dyne:Bolic linux also deals with A/V for creators, and is more committed to the Open Source philosophy (but has less to offer). Command line tools? Not sure if any fit the bill, but I never looked. Paul King On 10 Dec 2015 at 19:17, Karen Lewellen wrote: Date sent: Thu, 10 Dec 2015 19:17:31 -0500 (EST) From: Karen Lewellen <klewellen@shellworld.net> To: talk@gtalug.org Subject: [GTALUG] Seeking help with a unique Linux project? Send reply to: GTALUG Talk <talk@gtalug.org>
greetings everyone, My name is Karen. I have only recently found this LUG, and joined the talk list. I am a professional singer/ songwriter and media producer with a unique Linux goal. I wish to make use of the varied console or command line based tools in Linux for my composition work, and if possible for accessing media materials too. I use adaptive technology, which is part of why my desire is to ssh telnet into my Linux box rather than work with it directly. I tend to prefer more traditional tools. for example one sound card in this box will be an m-audio audiofile 2496 production card to which I will be attaching my music keyboard. In any case while I have some of the tools I require, and firm knowledge that my goals are possible. I have not, at least not until now, found a Linux users group in Toronto where I can get the extra wisdom required. I am very used to Linux and UNIX based shell structures. I am using one at this moment based in freedsb, to draft my email, and use another based in Ubuntu for my nonprofit media newsroom's hosting account. Such is also part of why I want to start with a comparative way to use my Linux box. I would rather begin with a foundation where I can make use of and learn more right away, than fail to use the Linux box well at all. Let me be sure my post is suitable before both asking and answering questions. Thanks in advance, Karen
--- Talk Mailing List talk@gtalug.org http://gtalug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
I do not use windows. The synthesize voices in it, just as those in Linux will stimulate the dizzy centres of my brain. I prefer making music outside of hospital if possible laughs! I do not require wisdom on the ssh telnet side. I hope to find help with the Debian one. our media nonprofit newsroom is hosted by dreamhost who provides a shell much like shellworld but using Ubuntu. it has a great deal of issues in general, so I prefer simply keeping this strictly Debian squeeze, certainly until i know I can use what i desire with the speech I intend via the door that is best for the body differences I experience if that makes sense. Kare On Fri, 11 Dec 2015, Paul King wrote:
Since you are familiar with Ubuntu, have you tried Ubuntu Studio? Lots of A/V software for creators there, including virtual multi-track mixing boards (specific name escapes me), Audacity (for multi-track audio), OpenShot (for multi-track A/V). I use Ubuntu Studio for creating my YouTube videos. Compared to Adobe Premiere Elements (Windows), I prefer OpenShot.
None of the software I mentioned is console-based, but you can remotely SSH from Windows through a xterm client in Cygwin/X (ssh -Y <user@host>), and the X-windows programs should be useable in all their GUI-based glory. You need to install Cygwin/X on Windows, first.
Dyne:Bolic linux also deals with A/V for creators, and is more committed to the Open Source philosophy (but has less to offer).
Command line tools? Not sure if any fit the bill, but I never looked.
Paul King
On 10 Dec 2015 at 19:17, Karen Lewellen wrote:
Date sent: Thu, 10 Dec 2015 19:17:31 -0500 (EST) From: Karen Lewellen <klewellen@shellworld.net> To: talk@gtalug.org Subject: [GTALUG] Seeking help with a unique Linux project? Send reply to: GTALUG Talk <talk@gtalug.org>
greetings everyone, My name is Karen. I have only recently found this LUG, and joined the talk list. I am a professional singer/ songwriter and media producer with a unique Linux goal. I wish to make use of the varied console or command line based tools in Linux for my composition work, and if possible for accessing media materials too. I use adaptive technology, which is part of why my desire is to ssh telnet into my Linux box rather than work with it directly. I tend to prefer more traditional tools. for example one sound card in this box will be an m-audio audiofile 2496 production card to which I will be attaching my music keyboard. In any case while I have some of the tools I require, and firm knowledge that my goals are possible. I have not, at least not until now, found a Linux users group in Toronto where I can get the extra wisdom required. I am very used to Linux and UNIX based shell structures. I am using one at this moment based in freedsb, to draft my email, and use another based in Ubuntu for my nonprofit media newsroom's hosting account. Such is also part of why I want to start with a comparative way to use my Linux box. I would rather begin with a foundation where I can make use of and learn more right away, than fail to use the Linux box well at all. Let me be sure my post is suitable before both asking and answering questions. Thanks in advance, Karen
--- Talk Mailing List talk@gtalug.org http://gtalug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 At Software Freedom Day we had a great presentation on using Free Software for Musical Performance by Blaise Alleyne. He was using graphical tools for his performance, but has the Music-On-Linux part covered. He may have expertise in command-line musical performance tools too. I'll ping him with this message. I wonder what it would take to convince Blaise to haul his studio equipment up to the room at Ryerson to do his presentation for GTALUG... :) - --Bob. SFDToronto: http://wiki.softwarefreedomday.org/2015/Canada/Toronto/LibrePlanet Bob Jonkman <bjonkman@sobac.com> Phone: +1-519-635-9413 SOBAC Microcomputer Services http://sobac.com/sobac/ Software --- Office & Business Automation --- Consulting GnuPG Fngrprnt:04F7 742B 8F54 C40A E115 26C2 B912 89B0 D2CC E5EA On 10/12/15 07:17 PM, Karen Lewellen wrote:
greetings everyone, My name is Karen. I have only recently found this LUG, and joined the talk list. I am a professional singer/ songwriter and media producer with a unique Linux goal. I wish to make use of the varied console or command line based tools in Linux for my composition work, and if possible for accessing media materials too. I use adaptive technology, which is part of why my desire is to ssh telnet into my Linux box rather than work with it directly. I tend to prefer more traditional tools. for example one sound card in this box will be an m-audio audiofile 2496 production card to which I will be attaching my music keyboard. In any case while I have some of the tools I require, and firm knowledge that my goals are possible. I have not, at least not until now, found a Linux users group in Toronto where I can get the extra wisdom required. I am very used to Linux and UNIX based shell structures. I am using one at this moment based in freedsb, to draft my email, and use another based in Ubuntu for my nonprofit media newsroom's hosting account. Such is also part of why I want to start with a comparative way to use my Linux box. I would rather begin with a foundation where I can make use of and learn more right away, than fail to use the Linux box well at all. Let me be sure my post is suitable before both asking and answering questions. Thanks in advance, Karen
--- Talk Mailing List talk@gtalug.org http://gtalug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.20 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Ensure confidentiality, authenticity, non-repudiability
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Wow that must have been amazing. The Linux audio list at yahoo groups is full of people mostly in Europe who use command line Linux tools for their music work, some of them are authors of packages included. Still it would be fun to witness it firsthand. Kare On Fri, 11 Dec 2015, Bob Jonkman wrote:
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1
At Software Freedom Day we had a great presentation on using Free Software for Musical Performance by Blaise Alleyne. He was using graphical tools for his performance, but has the Music-On-Linux part covered. He may have expertise in command-line musical performance tools too. I'll ping him with this message.
I wonder what it would take to convince Blaise to haul his studio equipment up to the room at Ryerson to do his presentation for GTALUG... :)
- --Bob.
SFDToronto: http://wiki.softwarefreedomday.org/2015/Canada/Toronto/LibrePlanet
Bob Jonkman <bjonkman@sobac.com> Phone: +1-519-635-9413 SOBAC Microcomputer Services http://sobac.com/sobac/ Software --- Office & Business Automation --- Consulting GnuPG Fngrprnt:04F7 742B 8F54 C40A E115 26C2 B912 89B0 D2CC E5EA
On 10/12/15 07:17 PM, Karen Lewellen wrote:
greetings everyone, My name is Karen. I have only recently found this LUG, and joined the talk list. I am a professional singer/ songwriter and media producer with a unique Linux goal. I wish to make use of the varied console or command line based tools in Linux for my composition work, and if possible for accessing media materials too. I use adaptive technology, which is part of why my desire is to ssh telnet into my Linux box rather than work with it directly. I tend to prefer more traditional tools. for example one sound card in this box will be an m-audio audiofile 2496 production card to which I will be attaching my music keyboard. In any case while I have some of the tools I require, and firm knowledge that my goals are possible. I have not, at least not until now, found a Linux users group in Toronto where I can get the extra wisdom required. I am very used to Linux and UNIX based shell structures. I am using one at this moment based in freedsb, to draft my email, and use another based in Ubuntu for my nonprofit media newsroom's hosting account. Such is also part of why I want to start with a comparative way to use my Linux box. I would rather begin with a foundation where I can make use of and learn more right away, than fail to use the Linux box well at all. Let me be sure my post is suitable before both asking and answering questions. Thanks in advance, Karen
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Hi Karen, I don't have very much experience with command line tools for music in GNU/Linux, barring some pretty simple uses (encoding, monitoring MIDI notes, making minor edits to sheet music typeset in Lilypond generated by Rosegarden). But I have taken a head-first dive into audio production in GNU/Linux over the past few years, and I use it for live performance and for composition and home recording. I'd also be personally interested in at least some command line tools for doing some of the things I currently do in GUIs. I don't think I fully understand what you're trying to do (both musically, or with the SSH component), but hopefully I can be of some assistance. Very curious to learn more about what you're hoping to do in case I can help! Regards, Blaise ps thanks for pinging me, Bob! On 11/12/15 06:38 PM, Karen Lewellen wrote:
Wow that must have been amazing. The Linux audio list at yahoo groups is full of people mostly in Europe who use command line Linux tools for their music work, some of them are authors of packages included. Still it would be fun to witness it firsthand. Kare
On Fri, 11 Dec 2015, Bob Jonkman wrote:
At Software Freedom Day we had a great presentation on using Free Software for Musical Performance by Blaise Alleyne. He was using graphical tools for his performance, but has the Music-On-Linux part covered. He may have expertise in command-line musical performance tools too. I'll ping him with this message.
I wonder what it would take to convince Blaise to haul his studio equipment up to the room at Ryerson to do his presentation for GTALUG... :)
--Bob.
SFDToronto: http://wiki.softwarefreedomday.org/2015/Canada/Toronto/LibrePlanet
Bob Jonkman <bjonkman@sobac.com> Phone: +1-519-635-9413 SOBAC Microcomputer Services http://sobac.com/sobac/ Software --- Office & Business Automation --- Consulting GnuPG Fngrprnt:04F7 742B 8F54 C40A E115 26C2 B912 89B0 D2CC E5EA
On 10/12/15 07:17 PM, Karen Lewellen wrote:
greetings everyone, My name is Karen. I have only recently found this LUG, and joined the talk list. I am a professional singer/ songwriter and media producer with a unique Linux goal. I wish to make use of the varied console or command line based tools in Linux for my composition work, and if possible for accessing media materials too. I use adaptive technology, which is part of why my desire is to ssh telnet into my Linux box rather than work with it directly. I tend to prefer more traditional tools. for example one sound card in this box will be an m-audio audiofile 2496 production card to which I will be attaching my music keyboard. In any case while I have some of the tools I require, and firm knowledge that my goals are possible. I have not, at least not until now, found a Linux users group in Toronto where I can get the extra wisdom required. I am very used to Linux and UNIX based shell structures. I am using one at this moment based in freedsb, to draft my email, and use another based in Ubuntu for my nonprofit media newsroom's hosting account. Such is also part of why I want to start with a comparative way to use my Linux box. I would rather begin with a foundation where I can make use of and learn more right away, than fail to use the Linux box well at all. Let me be sure my post is suitable before both asking and answering questions. Thanks in advance, Karen
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Hello Blaise, Thanks so very much in advance for the wisdom I feel sure you can provide. I honestly admit to being a touch of a singer snob who imagines one can only perform live with well other live people smiles. So when Bob wrote of your creating, I confess I got rather curious as well. As for command line music making tools, there are actually rather a few I am learning. I am compiling a list with links, since I do not know yet your distribution of preference, or exactly how you work. Articulating my desires musically may make more sense than the ssh telnet aspect truth be told. In all honesty however, I cannot say with hands on firmness that I can drive the car where I wish to go. I was more of a singer / arranger than a songwriter until the past few years. Now I have all this music I desire moving from the studio in my head and heart onto sheet music, into performing form, as I am sure you can understand. Since I am writing full arrangements, all the parts with my lyrics, I want to play all of the parts, piano, strings, guitar etc., that are in my head and then get the completed work into sheet certainly both audio and sheet possibly. How I imagine doing this, is with a quality piano / keyboard that also has several additional instrument options to simulate sound wise for composition only for now at least, the other instrument's for which I am writing. <Still awake?> Now, this is where my visual memory, blended with my lack of first hand Linux experience starts to get a bit...well hopeful. I imagine connecting said piano / keyboard to the m-audio audiophile 2496 sound card I have in mind, using any one of the dozen or so tools for the command line I am finding are included in Debian, writing each part one at a time, putting the piece together, and transferring the completed work to a composing package, you referenced Lillypoind, which is terrific, but there are a couple more. I am hunting the instrument along with the talent for the Linux side of my desire. The older the better in a way, I tend to be a buttons kind of girl, not a touch screen one. Granted I know some keyboards have multi-track sequencers built in. Letting me <I think? compose entirely on said keyboard and transfer the finished product...strong emphasis on the I think. There may be another way that I have not considered, I mean besides the traditional way of doing the recording, I am a radio producer too, so have pro tools, a mac a control surface etc. etc. Still I would rather use Linux because I know the composition programs exist, that i may be able to script in Linux some of what I need...not me, but tap into some sources for this. There is no real program for composition mac wise, certainly not going back to the edition I am using to run my pro tools setup. The ssh-telnet aspect simply lets me treat the Linux box like a server, running the commands from my main computer where I am already comfortable, both with my speech synthesizer, and in a small way with the command line based on my daily use of a comparative Linux shell. Oh that reminds me, I spoke of issues with speech in more current Linux Kernels. This is because the ability to use a hardware source for speech no longer exists in the new ones, like in Jessie. Only software speech which for me is out of the question. One can compile the new distribution with the older Kennel, but that. is. way!!! beyond me laughs. Is all this making more sense? Will have those programs for you tomorrow. Thanks for joining the adventure! I likewise thank you Bob for inviting Blaise to the party. Kare On Mon, 14 Dec 2015, Blaise Alleyne wrote:
Hi Karen,
I don't have very much experience with command line tools for music in GNU/Linux, barring some pretty simple uses (encoding, monitoring MIDI notes, making minor edits to sheet music typeset in Lilypond generated by Rosegarden). But I have taken a head-first dive into audio production in GNU/Linux over the past few years, and I use it for live performance and for composition and home recording. I'd also be personally interested in at least some command line tools for doing some of the things I currently do in GUIs.
I don't think I fully understand what you're trying to do (both musically, or with the SSH component), but hopefully I can be of some assistance. Very curious to learn more about what you're hoping to do in case I can help!
Regards, Blaise
ps thanks for pinging me, Bob!
On 11/12/15 06:38 PM, Karen Lewellen wrote:
Wow that must have been amazing. The Linux audio list at yahoo groups is full of people mostly in Europe who use command line Linux tools for their music work, some of them are authors of packages included. Still it would be fun to witness it firsthand. Kare
On Fri, 11 Dec 2015, Bob Jonkman wrote:
At Software Freedom Day we had a great presentation on using Free Software for Musical Performance by Blaise Alleyne. He was using graphical tools for his performance, but has the Music-On-Linux part covered. He may have expertise in command-line musical performance tools too. I'll ping him with this message.
I wonder what it would take to convince Blaise to haul his studio equipment up to the room at Ryerson to do his presentation for GTALUG... :)
--Bob.
SFDToronto: http://wiki.softwarefreedomday.org/2015/Canada/Toronto/LibrePlanet
Bob Jonkman <bjonkman@sobac.com> Phone: +1-519-635-9413 SOBAC Microcomputer Services http://sobac.com/sobac/ Software --- Office & Business Automation --- Consulting GnuPG Fngrprnt:04F7 742B 8F54 C40A E115 26C2 B912 89B0 D2CC E5EA
On 10/12/15 07:17 PM, Karen Lewellen wrote:
greetings everyone, My name is Karen. I have only recently found this LUG, and joined the talk list. I am a professional singer/ songwriter and media producer with a unique Linux goal. I wish to make use of the varied console or command line based tools in Linux for my composition work, and if possible for accessing media materials too. I use adaptive technology, which is part of why my desire is to ssh telnet into my Linux box rather than work with it directly. I tend to prefer more traditional tools. for example one sound card in this box will be an m-audio audiofile 2496 production card to which I will be attaching my music keyboard. In any case while I have some of the tools I require, and firm knowledge that my goals are possible. I have not, at least not until now, found a Linux users group in Toronto where I can get the extra wisdom required. I am very used to Linux and UNIX based shell structures. I am using one at this moment based in freedsb, to draft my email, and use another based in Ubuntu for my nonprofit media newsroom's hosting account. Such is also part of why I want to start with a comparative way to use my Linux box. I would rather begin with a foundation where I can make use of and learn more right away, than fail to use the Linux box well at all. Let me be sure my post is suitable before both asking and answering questions. Thanks in advance, Karen
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Hi Karen, Thanks for the additional details! I'm Debian-based these days, with the KXStudio repositories for current audio production software and a low latency liquorix kernel, though I'm also still running Ubuntu Studio on my home desktop. One thing that may be a challenge (for which others on the list might have more knowledge) is your issue with speech in post-Squeeze Linux kernels. For pro audio work, the standard Squeeze kernel isn't going to be great... you want a low latency kernel if you want notes to play when you press them on a MIDI keyboard, or to be able to play back audio from several instrument sources at the same time reliably, nevermind to record any audio reliably. So I'm not sure how you solve that problem -- an older low latency kernel perhaps, which supports your speech hardware requirements but also pro audio? I'm not quite sure. (Also, are you using JACK yet? That may be another challenge with speech software, though an ALSA or Pulseaudio bridge may do the trick.) Beyond that, maybe best to take the discussion off-list? Feel free to email me at blaise@apeironmusic.com. Blaise On 15/12/15 01:11 AM, Karen Lewellen wrote:
Hello Blaise, Thanks so very much in advance for the wisdom I feel sure you can provide. I honestly admit to being a touch of a singer snob who imagines one can only perform live with well other live people smiles. So when Bob wrote of your creating, I confess I got rather curious as well. As for command line music making tools, there are actually rather a few I am learning. I am compiling a list with links, since I do not know yet your distribution of preference, or exactly how you work. Articulating my desires musically may make more sense than the ssh telnet aspect truth be told. In all honesty however, I cannot say with hands on firmness that I can drive the car where I wish to go. I was more of a singer / arranger than a songwriter until the past few years. Now I have all this music I desire moving from the studio in my head and heart onto sheet music, into performing form, as I am sure you can understand. Since I am writing full arrangements, all the parts with my lyrics, I want to play all of the parts, piano, strings, guitar etc., that are in my head and then get the completed work into sheet certainly both audio and sheet possibly. How I imagine doing this, is with a quality piano / keyboard that also has several additional instrument options to simulate sound wise for composition only for now at least, the other instrument's for which I am writing. <Still awake?> Now, this is where my visual memory, blended with my lack of first hand Linux experience starts to get a bit...well hopeful. I imagine connecting said piano / keyboard to the m-audio audiophile 2496 sound card I have in mind, using any one of the dozen or so tools for the command line I am finding are included in Debian, writing each part one at a time, putting the piece together, and transferring the completed work to a composing package, you referenced Lillypoind, which is terrific, but there are a couple more. I am hunting the instrument along with the talent for the Linux side of my desire. The older the better in a way, I tend to be a buttons kind of girl, not a touch screen one. Granted I know some keyboards have multi-track sequencers built in. Letting me <I think? compose entirely on said keyboard and transfer the finished product...strong emphasis on the I think. There may be another way that I have not considered, I mean besides the traditional way of doing the recording, I am a radio producer too, so have pro tools, a mac a control surface etc. etc. Still I would rather use Linux because I know the composition programs exist, that i may be able to script in Linux some of what I need...not me, but tap into some sources for this. There is no real program for composition mac wise, certainly not going back to the edition I am using to run my pro tools setup. The ssh-telnet aspect simply lets me treat the Linux box like a server, running the commands from my main computer where I am already comfortable, both with my speech synthesizer, and in a small way with the command line based on my daily use of a comparative Linux shell. Oh that reminds me, I spoke of issues with speech in more current Linux Kernels. This is because the ability to use a hardware source for speech no longer exists in the new ones, like in Jessie. Only software speech which for me is out of the question. One can compile the new distribution with the older Kennel, but that. is. way!!! beyond me laughs. Is all this making more sense? Will have those programs for you tomorrow. Thanks for joining the adventure! I likewise thank you Bob for inviting Blaise to the party. Kare
On Mon, 14 Dec 2015, Blaise Alleyne wrote:
Hi Karen,
I don't have very much experience with command line tools for music in GNU/Linux, barring some pretty simple uses (encoding, monitoring MIDI notes, making minor edits to sheet music typeset in Lilypond generated by Rosegarden). But I have taken a head-first dive into audio production in GNU/Linux over the past few years, and I use it for live performance and for composition and home recording. I'd also be personally interested in at least some command line tools for doing some of the things I currently do in GUIs.
I don't think I fully understand what you're trying to do (both musically, or with the SSH component), but hopefully I can be of some assistance. Very curious to learn more about what you're hoping to do in case I can help!
Regards, Blaise
ps thanks for pinging me, Bob!
On 11/12/15 06:38 PM, Karen Lewellen wrote:
Wow that must have been amazing. The Linux audio list at yahoo groups is full of people mostly in Europe who use command line Linux tools for their music work, some of them are authors of packages included. Still it would be fun to witness it firsthand. Kare
On Fri, 11 Dec 2015, Bob Jonkman wrote:
At Software Freedom Day we had a great presentation on using Free Software for Musical Performance by Blaise Alleyne. He was using graphical tools for his performance, but has the Music-On-Linux part covered. He may have expertise in command-line musical performance tools too. I'll ping him with this message.
I wonder what it would take to convince Blaise to haul his studio equipment up to the room at Ryerson to do his presentation for GTALUG... :)
--Bob.
SFDToronto: http://wiki.softwarefreedomday.org/2015/Canada/Toronto/LibrePlanet
Bob Jonkman <bjonkman@sobac.com> Phone: +1-519-635-9413 SOBAC Microcomputer Services http://sobac.com/sobac/ Software --- Office & Business Automation --- Consulting GnuPG Fngrprnt:04F7 742B 8F54 C40A E115 26C2 B912 89B0 D2CC E5EA
On 10/12/15 07:17 PM, Karen Lewellen wrote:
greetings everyone, My name is Karen. I have only recently found this LUG, and joined the talk list. I am a professional singer/ songwriter and media producer with a unique Linux goal. I wish to make use of the varied console or command line based tools in Linux for my composition work, and if possible for accessing media materials too. I use adaptive technology, which is part of why my desire is to ssh telnet into my Linux box rather than work with it directly. I tend to prefer more traditional tools. for example one sound card in this box will be an m-audio audiofile 2496 production card to which I will be attaching my music keyboard. In any case while I have some of the tools I require, and firm knowledge that my goals are possible. I have not, at least not until now, found a Linux users group in Toronto where I can get the extra wisdom required. I am very used to Linux and UNIX based shell structures. I am using one at this moment based in freedsb, to draft my email, and use another based in Ubuntu for my nonprofit media newsroom's hosting account. Such is also part of why I want to start with a comparative way to use my Linux box. I would rather begin with a foundation where I can make use of and learn more right away, than fail to use the Linux box well at all. Let me be sure my post is suitable before both asking and answering questions. Thanks in advance, Karen
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On Tue, Dec 15, 2015 at 11:24 AM, Blaise Alleyne <email+libre@blaise.ca> wrote:
Beyond that, maybe best to take the discussion off-list? Feel free to email me at blaise@apeironmusic.com.
Speaking for myself, please stay on-list. I'm watching with rapt attention as details unfold 8-) Mike
On Tue, 15 Dec 2015, Mike wrote:
Speaking for myself, please stay on-list. I'm watching with rapt attention as details unfold 8-)
Mike
Here you go.. Hi all, Blaise, I will indeed write you off list too, but am never one to disappoint an audience, smiles. Especially if they are reading with wrapped attention. As promised, some of the command line tools I have discovered so far. For music notation there are a couple, ABC Notation is included in Debian, which I understand is a really simple tool. there are some more complete doors though, Like muscript, for example :-) http://www.pjb.com.au/muscript/index.html with its associated midi2muscript utility: http://www.pjb.com.au/midi/midi2muscript.html Which lets you shift a midi file into notation..or so I understand. Then there are the tools for monitoring and audio work, For Audio recording and processing by way of example, there is Joel's Nama: https://freeshell.de/~bolangi/nama/ Joel is a presence on both the Debian users discussion list, and the Linux audio list via yahoo groups. Very nice guy, with rather a few samples of his programs in creative use on his site. I am told that ecasound is needful for his program, http://www.eca.cx/ecasound I am equally told though that the package already exists in Linux distributions like Debian, but have no first hand knowledge of this being true. For MIDI there is Midish: http://www.midish.org I am told manuals are actually on the site <hurrah!> but I dare say how you can incorporate the program is up to you. I was directed to some helpful commands however. https://freeshell.de/~silvain/software/fs_midish_extra-1.0.tar.bz I am told that audio processing can be improved with good LADSPA and LV2 plugins. Again either in the distros themselves, or search worthy via Google. I do not know directly if this helps with the latency kernel factor though? For very good quality reverbs checkout Fons Adriaensen's jconvolver: http://kokkinizita.linuxaudio.org/linuxaudio/downloads/index.html I am told it will tell you, which packages to download or again Perhaps already in the distribution, though I'm not sure about jconvolver. As for your Jack question, the answer is no. In fact I am not even sure what that program does, but I am not as of yet using Linux directly on any computer of my own. I am feeling that you are building a very strong case for my ssh telnet idea with the kennel situation as it relates to pro audio. I care far more about the machine's ability to let me make music at the professional level then I do about my using speech on the computer itself. Since a server should, or can be a part of a properly configured Linux installation though, I believe I can still do my work even if the kernel does not support speech for me. More off list and thanks for that invitation! Hope others find these tools of use. Harmoniously, Kare
On 15/12/15 03:35 PM, Karen Lewellen wrote:
For music notation there are a couple, ABC Notation is included in Debian, which I understand is a really simple tool. there are some more complete doors though,
I wouldn't discount ABC notation as being too simple. I haven't used it yet, but it's been on my radar for a while. It could be very useful for entry and editing, because you can do that all in plain text, and then convert to MIDI or typeset with Lilypond. I had the sense there are a wide variety of tools like this for turning ABC into something else. You can think of it like a sort of "source code" for your music -- you can write in in ABC, but then "compile" or convert it to other forms when you're finished. I wouldn't rule ABC out for being too simple. It seems very powerful. I'd be more concerned if it's too cryptic, i.e. are you comfortable managing music notation with this syntax?
Like muscript, for example :-) http://www.pjb.com.au/muscript/index.html with its associated midi2muscript utility: http://www.pjb.com.au/midi/midi2muscript.html Which lets you shift a midi file into notation..or so I understand.
Cool, I hadn't heard of that. In comparing Muscript to ABC Notation, I'd be curious if Muscript has the same wide support for its standard notation. ABC has tons of software avaiable around it: http://abcnotation.com/software#linux e.g. abcMIDI: http://abc.sourceforge.net/abcMIDI/ Or abc2ly, which comes with LilyPond My sense is that ABC has a more mature ecosystem, with broader support, but that's just the first I'm encountering Muscript, so I could be wrong!
Then there are the tools for monitoring and audio work, For Audio recording and processing by way of example, there is Joel's Nama: https://freeshell.de/~bolangi/nama/
Very cool.
[...] I am told that ecasound is needful for his program, http://www.eca.cx/ecasound I am equally told though that the package already exists in Linux distributions like Debian, but have no first hand knowledge of this being true.
Never heard of it or used it before, but, yes, it's in the Debian repos: https://packages.debian.org/search?keywords=ecasound And it looks like it can interface with the JACK audio server, which you may need for other pro audio software: http://ecasound.seul.org/ecasound/Documentation/examples.html#rtjack
For MIDI there is Midish: http://www.midish.org
Cool! Looks like it's ALSA MIDI, but can interface with JACK MIDI using the available bridge: http://lists.linuxaudio.org/pipermail/linux-audio-user/2010-October/073533.h... This is also in the Debian repos.
I am told that audio processing can be improved with good LADSPA and LV2 plugins. Again either in the distros themselves, or search worthy via Google.
Yes, another reason IMHO to have an audio distro -- they'll package the latest LADSPA and LV2 plugins. I get mine mostly from the KXStudio repositories.
I do not know directly if this helps with the latency kernel factor though?
No, that's not directly related. You'll want a low latency kernel, IMHO, to make sure your plugins don't add to the delay in audio, but the plugins won't do anything to improve the latency (if anything, they increase the need for a low latency kernel I'd imagine).
As for your Jack question, the answer is no. In fact I am not even sure what that program does, but I am not as of yet using Linux directly on any computer of my own.
Ah, I see. Yeah, most GNU/Linux distributions use PulseAudio (/ ALSA) for sound these days, but most pro audio applications use JACK. JACK is a low latency audio server. You don't need it for all audio applications, but the more serious ones tend to require it. This is another thing that an audio distribution might help with -- though, if you're running JACK from the command line, might require some manual work to get the right settings anyways. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JACK_Audio_Connection_Kit http://jackaudio.org/
I am feeling that you are building a very strong case for my ssh telnet idea with the kennel situation as it relates to pro audio. I care far more about the machine's ability to let me make music at the professional level then I do about my using speech on the computer itself. Since a server should, or can be a part of a properly configured Linux installation though, I believe I can still do my work even if the kernel does not support speech for me.
A question I forgot to add about the SSH option: Where will the speakers be? If you're using SSH to access your music machine, and your speakers are connected to your music machine, and it's all still in the same room as you, I could see that working. Just making sure you're not expecting audio to be output through the other computer that you're using as an SSH client!
Hi again Blaise, This one is really fun from a creative standpoint. You wrote,
For music notation there are a couple, ABC Notation is included in Debian, which I understand is a really simple tool. there are some more complete doors though,
I wouldn't discount ABC notation as being too simple. I haven't used it yet, but it's been on my radar for a while. It could be very useful for entry and editing, because you can do that all in plain text, and then convert to MIDI or typeset with Lilypond.
This is the nifty thing about creating here. do I want to create the music in midi files first then turn them into notation, or the other way around? decisions, decisions.
I had the sense there are a wide variety of tools like this for turning ABC into something else. You can think of it like a sort of "source code" for your music -- you can write in in ABC, but then "compile" or convert it to other forms when you're finished.
I wouldn't rule ABC out for being too simple. It seems very powerful. I'd be more concerned if it's too cryptic, i.e. are you comfortable managing music notation with this syntax?
and that seems to be the challenge some musicians I know express about the abc notation platform, the syntax is perhaps too simplistic. I wonder myself what it does that Lillypond does not truth be told. And again there is that creative question, which comes first the notation, or the music? Peter's creative philosophy outlined in the program below is yet another variation.
Like muscript, for example :-) http://www.pjb.com.au/muscript/index.html with its associated midi2muscript utility: http://www.pjb.com.au/midi/midi2muscript.html Which lets you shift a midi file into notation..or so I understand.
Cool, I hadn't heard of that. In comparing Muscript to ABC Notation, I'd be curious if Muscript has the same wide support for its standard notation.
ABC has tons of software avaiable around it: http://abcnotation.com/software#linux
Yet another more philosophical question I dare say largely tied to how one defines their computer experiences. I am a member of the Debian-users discussion group here, lists.debian.org It is where I heard about abc notation, and got an invitation to join their own discussion group. However Peter who wrote the other program is directly involved in support and assistance. Who is best able to fortify the user experience, the individual directly involved in writing the software, or others who have built tools around the software? Speaking only for myself, I do not equate music making with writing software code, if that makes sense. Since I am personally less worried at this stage about how the computer elements enter act than I am how easily I can translate music I have played first into printed form for other musicians to play, I suspect a tool that starts with midi translates into notation, then lets me do cleanup in something like lillypond before printing may feel more natural...for me.
e.g. abcMIDI: http://abc.sourceforge.net/abcMIDI/ Or abc2ly, which comes with LilyPond tools abound to be sure yes.
My sense is that ABC has a more mature ecosystem, with broader support, but that's just the first I'm encountering Muscript, so I could be wrong!
I can only speak to how the program gets discussed. I have personally not found productive interaction on list. I have for example learned more here, and from the main Debian discussion list than I have reading posts on the ABC Notation one, but again that is me. I prefer asking the most primary source about things if i can.
Then there are the tools for monitoring and audio work, For Audio recording and processing by way of example, there is Joel's Nama: https://freeshell.de/~bolangi/nama/
Very cool.
Joel is a fine example of primary source. He was one of the first to encourage me in creating the two separate machines I am aiming for using ssh telnet to reach the Linux one treating it like a command line based server. Letting me start in relatively known territory since I ssh TELNET into Freebsd and Ubuntu shell services many times a day. Allot of those updating Linux programs naturally think like programmers, and I am not one of those. .
Never heard of it or used it before, but, yes, it's in the Debian repos: https://packages.debian.org/search?keywords=ecasound
And it looks like it can interface with the JACK audio server, which you may need for other pro audio software: http://ecasound.seul.org/ecasound/Documentation/examples.html#rtjack
Oh yes, Joel's program is indeed a part of Debian. The Debian users list is where I heard about the option, and met him directly.
For MIDI there is Midish: http://www.midish.org
Cool! Looks like it's ALSA MIDI, but can interface with JACK MIDI using the available bridge: http://lists.linuxaudio.org/pipermail/linux-audio-user/2010-October/073533.h...
This is also in the Debian repos. Exactly, there are already allot of command line tools, some tied to traditional midi usage, some with bridges to new avenues like Jack. To be honest t it is sort of a Linux drawback. there are so many items on the menu, one can get overwhelmed if that makes sense.
search worthy via Google.
Yes, another reason IMHO to have an audio distro -- they'll package the latest LADSPA and LV2 plugins. I get mine mostly from the KXStudio repositories.
Only further supporting your wise idea to build a strong Debian floor first and add the kxstudio and low latency kernels on top.
As for your Jack question, the answer is no. In fact I am not even sure what that program does, but I am not as of yet using Linux directly on any computer of my own.
Ah, I see. Yeah, most GNU/Linux distributions use PulseAudio (/ ALSA) for sound these days, but most pro audio applications use JACK. JACK is a low latency audio server. You don't need it for all audio applications, but the more serious ones tend to require it. This is another thing that an audio distribution might help with -- though, if you're running JACK from the command line, might require some manual work to get the right settings anyways.
What does jack give you in any case? By which I mean, what can you create musically with it that could not be done before in your professional opinion? I will visit the pages below of course, but I am wondering how it makes a real world difference?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JACK_Audio_Connection_Kit http://jackaudio.org/
I care far
more about the machine's ability to let me make music at the professional level then I do about my using speech on the computer itself. Since a server should, or can be a part of a properly configured Linux installation though, I believe I can still do my work even if the kernel does not support speech for me.
A question I forgot to add about the SSH option: Where will the speakers be?
If you're using SSH to access your music machine, and your speakers are connected to your music machine, and it's all still in the same room as you, I could see that working.
Just making sure you're not expecting audio to be output through the other computer that you're using as an SSH client!
Oh how funny! no, that would be quite impossible unnecessary and counter productive. The speakers will be connected to the Linux music machine, its what the m-audio card is for. The midi keyboard will be connected to this music computer as well. the ssh telnet client is not in Linux, or windows either for that matter, smiles. Now off to answer in part my own question about jack. Kare
---
On Mon, Jan 4, 2016 at 1:46 PM, Karen Lewellen <klewellen@shellworld.net> wrote:
Hi again Blaise, This one is really fun from a creative standpoint. You wrote,
For music notation there are a couple, ABC Notation is included in Debian, which I understand is a really simple tool. there are some more complete doors though,
I wouldn't discount ABC notation as being too simple. I haven't used it yet, but it's been on my radar for a while. It could be very useful for entry and editing, because you can do that all in plain text, and then convert to MIDI or typeset with Lilypond.
This is the nifty thing about creating here. do I want to create the music in midi files first then turn them into notation, or the other way around? decisions, decisions.
Speaking from my experience with music. You could tell someone you want a regular 4 beat with pizzaz AND swing and I would understand that what was on the page might be square but that I was to do x with that notation and that would make it come alive. Western music notation has so many things it can't notate. That's why you can get 10 different people doing something and have30 different versions of something that's interesting! Interesting music notated by a computer might be rather wickedly difficult for the 'normal' musician to read and do. YMMV snip Over to you. Dee
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1
Beyond that, maybe best to take the discussion off-list?
Oh no! Although I'm not able to contribute, I'm learning lots. - --Bob. On 15/12/15 11:24 AM, Blaise Alleyne wrote:
Hi Karen,
Thanks for the additional details!
I'm Debian-based these days, with the KXStudio repositories for current audio production software and a low latency liquorix kernel, though I'm also still running Ubuntu Studio on my home desktop.
One thing that may be a challenge (for which others on the list might have more knowledge) is your issue with speech in post-Squeeze Linux kernels. For pro audio work, the standard Squeeze kernel isn't going to be great... you want a low latency kernel if you want notes to play when you press them on a MIDI keyboard, or to be able to play back audio from several instrument sources at the same time reliably, nevermind to record any audio reliably.
So I'm not sure how you solve that problem -- an older low latency kernel perhaps, which supports your speech hardware requirements but also pro audio? I'm not quite sure.
(Also, are you using JACK yet? That may be another challenge with speech software, though an ALSA or Pulseaudio bridge may do the trick.)
Beyond that, maybe best to take the discussion off-list? Feel free to email me at blaise@apeironmusic.com.
Blaise
On 15/12/15 01:11 AM, Karen Lewellen wrote:
Hello Blaise, Thanks so very much in advance for the wisdom I feel sure you can provide. I honestly admit to being a touch of a singer snob who imagines one can only perform live with well other live people smiles. So when Bob wrote of your creating, I confess I got rather curious as well. As for command line music making tools, there are actually rather a few I am learning. I am compiling a list with links, since I do not know yet your distribution of preference, or exactly how you work. Articulating my desires musically may make more sense than the ssh telnet aspect truth be told. In all honesty however, I cannot say with hands on firmness that I can drive the car where I wish to go. I was more of a singer / arranger than a songwriter until the past few years. Now I have all this music I desire moving from the studio in my head and heart onto sheet music, into performing form, as I am sure you can understand. Since I am writing full arrangements, all the parts with my lyrics, I want to play all of the parts, piano, strings, guitar etc., that are in my head and then get the completed work into sheet certainly both audio and sheet possibly. How I imagine doing this, is with a quality piano / keyboard that also has several additional instrument options to simulate sound wise for composition only for now at least, the other instrument's for which I am writing. <Still awake?> Now, this is where my visual memory, blended with my lack of first hand Linux experience starts to get a bit...well hopeful. I imagine connecting said piano / keyboard to the m-audio audiophile 2496 sound card I have in mind, using any one of the dozen or so tools for the command line I am finding are included in Debian, writing each part one at a time, putting the piece together, and transferring the completed work to a composing package, you referenced Lillypoind, which is terrific, but there are a couple more. I am hunting the instrument along with the talent for the Linux side of my desire. The older the better in a way, I tend to be a buttons kind of girl, not a touch screen one. Granted I know some keyboards have multi-track sequencers built in. Letting me <I think? compose entirely on said keyboard and transfer the finished product...strong emphasis on the I think. There may be another way that I have not considered, I mean besides the traditional way of doing the recording, I am a radio producer too, so have pro tools, a mac a control surface etc. etc. Still I would rather use Linux because I know the composition programs exist, that i may be able to script in Linux some of what I need...not me, but tap into some sources for this. There is no real program for composition mac wise, certainly not going back to the edition I am using to run my pro tools setup. The ssh-telnet aspect simply lets me treat the Linux box like a server, running the commands from my main computer where I am already comfortable, both with my speech synthesizer, and in a small way with the command line based on my daily use of a comparative Linux shell. Oh that reminds me, I spoke of issues with speech in more current Linux Kernels. This is because the ability to use a hardware source for speech no longer exists in the new ones, like in Jessie. Only software speech which for me is out of the question. One can compile the new distribution with the older Kennel, but that. is. way!!! beyond me laughs. Is all this making more sense? Will have those programs for you tomorrow. Thanks for joining the adventure! I likewise thank you Bob for inviting Blaise to the party. Kare
On Mon, 14 Dec 2015, Blaise Alleyne wrote:
Hi Karen,
I don't have very much experience with command line tools for music in GNU/Linux, barring some pretty simple uses (encoding, monitoring MIDI notes, making minor edits to sheet music typeset in Lilypond generated by Rosegarden). But I have taken a head-first dive into audio production in GNU/Linux over the past few years, and I use it for live performance and for composition and home recording. I'd also be personally interested in at least some command line tools for doing some of the things I currently do in GUIs.
I don't think I fully understand what you're trying to do (both musically, or with the SSH component), but hopefully I can be of some assistance. Very curious to learn more about what you're hoping to do in case I can help!
Regards, Blaise
ps thanks for pinging me, Bob!
On 11/12/15 06:38 PM, Karen Lewellen wrote:
Wow that must have been amazing. The Linux audio list at yahoo groups is full of people mostly in Europe who use command line Linux tools for their music work, some of them are authors of packages included. Still it would be fun to witness it firsthand. Kare
On Fri, 11 Dec 2015, Bob Jonkman wrote:
At Software Freedom Day we had a great presentation on using Free Software for Musical Performance by Blaise Alleyne. He was using graphical tools for his performance, but has the Music-On-Linux part covered. He may have expertise in command-line musical performance tools too. I'll ping him with this message.
I wonder what it would take to convince Blaise to haul his studio equipment up to the room at Ryerson to do his presentation for GTALUG... :)
--Bob.
SFDToronto: http://wiki.softwarefreedomday.org/2015/Canada/Toronto/LibrePlanet
Bob Jonkman <bjonkman@sobac.com> Phone: +1-519-635-9413
SOBAC Microcomputer Services http://sobac.com/sobac/ Software --- Office & Business Automation --- Consulting GnuPG Fngrprnt:04F7 742B 8F54 C40A E115 26C2 B912 89B0 D2CC E5EA
On 10/12/15 07:17 PM, Karen Lewellen wrote:
> greetings everyone, My name is Karen. I have only > recently found this LUG, and joined the talk list. I am > a professional singer/ songwriter and media producer > with a unique Linux goal. I wish to make use of the > varied console or command line based tools in Linux for > my composition work, and if possible for accessing > media materials too. I use adaptive technology, which > is part of why my desire is to ssh telnet into my Linux > box rather than work with it directly. I tend to prefer > more traditional tools. for example one sound card in > this box will be an m-audio audiofile 2496 production > card to which I will be attaching my music keyboard. > In any case while I have some of the tools I require, > and firm knowledge that my goals are possible. I have > not, at least not until now, found a Linux users group > in Toronto where I can get the extra wisdom required. I > am very used to Linux and UNIX based shell structures. > I am using one at this moment based in freedsb, to > draft my email, and use another based in Ubuntu for my > nonprofit media newsroom's hosting account. Such is > also part of why I want to start with a comparative way > to use my Linux box. I would rather begin with a > foundation where I can make use of and learn more right > away, than fail to use the Linux box well at all. Let > me be sure my post is suitable before both asking and > answering questions. Thanks in advance, Karen > > --- Talk Mailing List talk@gtalug.org > http://gtalug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk --- Talk Mailing List talk@gtalug.org http://gtalug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
--- Talk Mailing List talk@gtalug.org http://gtalug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
--- Talk Mailing List talk@gtalug.org http://gtalug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
--- Talk Mailing List talk@gtalug.org http://gtalug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
--- Talk Mailing List talk@gtalug.org http://gtalug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.20 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Ensure confidentiality, authenticity, non-repudiability iEYEARECAAYFAlZwYdMACgkQuRKJsNLM5epJqACg9yLIEzcUawWjutHN2e7SAOSA JrUAoI7mUcH0sn1WYGfUqOq3npYmjRLo =O2Rx -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
Hi Blaise, one of two. Thanks for the off list invitation! I shall certainly write you, but at least given another post, will keep some of this on list. i am posting the software options in that reply. still can you explain, or can others give examples of low latency kernels? What a fascinating idea. More in a moment, Kare On Tue, 15 Dec 2015, Blaise Alleyne wrote:
Hi Karen,
Thanks for the additional details!
I'm Debian-based these days, with the KXStudio repositories for current audio production software and a low latency liquorix kernel, though I'm also still running Ubuntu Studio on my home desktop.
One thing that may be a challenge (for which others on the list might have more knowledge) is your issue with speech in post-Squeeze Linux kernels. For pro audio work, the standard Squeeze kernel isn't going to be great... you want a low latency kernel if you want notes to play when you press them on a MIDI keyboard, or to be able to play back audio from several instrument sources at the same time reliably, nevermind to record any audio reliably.
So I'm not sure how you solve that problem -- an older low latency kernel perhaps, which supports your speech hardware requirements but also pro audio? I'm not quite sure.
(Also, are you using JACK yet? That may be another challenge with speech software, though an ALSA or Pulseaudio bridge may do the trick.)
Beyond that, maybe best to take the discussion off-list? Feel free to email me at blaise@apeironmusic.com.
Blaise
On 15/12/15 01:11 AM, Karen Lewellen wrote:
Hello Blaise, Thanks so very much in advance for the wisdom I feel sure you can provide. I honestly admit to being a touch of a singer snob who imagines one can only perform live with well other live people smiles. So when Bob wrote of your creating, I confess I got rather curious as well. As for command line music making tools, there are actually rather a few I am learning. I am compiling a list with links, since I do not know yet your distribution of preference, or exactly how you work. Articulating my desires musically may make more sense than the ssh telnet aspect truth be told. In all honesty however, I cannot say with hands on firmness that I can drive the car where I wish to go. I was more of a singer / arranger than a songwriter until the past few years. Now I have all this music I desire moving from the studio in my head and heart onto sheet music, into performing form, as I am sure you can understand. Since I am writing full arrangements, all the parts with my lyrics, I want to play all of the parts, piano, strings, guitar etc., that are in my head and then get the completed work into sheet certainly both audio and sheet possibly. How I imagine doing this, is with a quality piano / keyboard that also has several additional instrument options to simulate sound wise for composition only for now at least, the other instrument's for which I am writing. <Still awake?> Now, this is where my visual memory, blended with my lack of first hand Linux experience starts to get a bit...well hopeful. I imagine connecting said piano / keyboard to the m-audio audiophile 2496 sound card I have in mind, using any one of the dozen or so tools for the command line I am finding are included in Debian, writing each part one at a time, putting the piece together, and transferring the completed work to a composing package, you referenced Lillypoind, which is terrific, but there are a couple more. I am hunting the instrument along with the talent for the Linux side of my desire. The older the better in a way, I tend to be a buttons kind of girl, not a touch screen one. Granted I know some keyboards have multi-track sequencers built in. Letting me <I think? compose entirely on said keyboard and transfer the finished product...strong emphasis on the I think. There may be another way that I have not considered, I mean besides the traditional way of doing the recording, I am a radio producer too, so have pro tools, a mac a control surface etc. etc. Still I would rather use Linux because I know the composition programs exist, that i may be able to script in Linux some of what I need...not me, but tap into some sources for this. There is no real program for composition mac wise, certainly not going back to the edition I am using to run my pro tools setup. The ssh-telnet aspect simply lets me treat the Linux box like a server, running the commands from my main computer where I am already comfortable, both with my speech synthesizer, and in a small way with the command line based on my daily use of a comparative Linux shell. Oh that reminds me, I spoke of issues with speech in more current Linux Kernels. This is because the ability to use a hardware source for speech no longer exists in the new ones, like in Jessie. Only software speech which for me is out of the question. One can compile the new distribution with the older Kennel, but that. is. way!!! beyond me laughs. Is all this making more sense? Will have those programs for you tomorrow. Thanks for joining the adventure! I likewise thank you Bob for inviting Blaise to the party. Kare
On Mon, 14 Dec 2015, Blaise Alleyne wrote:
Hi Karen,
I don't have very much experience with command line tools for music in GNU/Linux, barring some pretty simple uses (encoding, monitoring MIDI notes, making minor edits to sheet music typeset in Lilypond generated by Rosegarden). But I have taken a head-first dive into audio production in GNU/Linux over the past few years, and I use it for live performance and for composition and home recording. I'd also be personally interested in at least some command line tools for doing some of the things I currently do in GUIs.
I don't think I fully understand what you're trying to do (both musically, or with the SSH component), but hopefully I can be of some assistance. Very curious to learn more about what you're hoping to do in case I can help!
Regards, Blaise
ps thanks for pinging me, Bob!
On 11/12/15 06:38 PM, Karen Lewellen wrote:
Wow that must have been amazing. The Linux audio list at yahoo groups is full of people mostly in Europe who use command line Linux tools for their music work, some of them are authors of packages included. Still it would be fun to witness it firsthand. Kare
On Fri, 11 Dec 2015, Bob Jonkman wrote:
At Software Freedom Day we had a great presentation on using Free Software for Musical Performance by Blaise Alleyne. He was using graphical tools for his performance, but has the Music-On-Linux part covered. He may have expertise in command-line musical performance tools too. I'll ping him with this message.
I wonder what it would take to convince Blaise to haul his studio equipment up to the room at Ryerson to do his presentation for GTALUG... :)
--Bob.
SFDToronto: http://wiki.softwarefreedomday.org/2015/Canada/Toronto/LibrePlanet
Bob Jonkman <bjonkman@sobac.com> Phone: +1-519-635-9413 SOBAC Microcomputer Services http://sobac.com/sobac/ Software --- Office & Business Automation --- Consulting GnuPG Fngrprnt:04F7 742B 8F54 C40A E115 26C2 B912 89B0 D2CC E5EA
On 10/12/15 07:17 PM, Karen Lewellen wrote:
> greetings everyone, My name is Karen. I have only recently found > this LUG, and joined the talk list. I am a professional singer/ > songwriter and media producer with a unique Linux goal. I wish to > make use of the varied console or command line based tools in Linux > for my composition work, and if possible for accessing media > materials too. I use adaptive technology, which is part of why my > desire is to ssh telnet into my Linux box rather than work with it > directly. I tend to prefer more traditional tools. for example one > sound card in this box will be an m-audio audiofile 2496 > production card to which I will be attaching my music keyboard. In > any case while I have some of the tools I require, and firm > knowledge that my goals are possible. I have not, at least not > until now, found a Linux users group in Toronto where I can get the > extra wisdom required. I am very used to Linux and UNIX based shell > structures. I am using one at this moment based in freedsb, to > draft my email, and use another based in Ubuntu for my nonprofit > media newsroom's hosting account. Such is also part of why I want > to start with a comparative way to use my Linux box. I would > rather begin with a foundation where I can make use of and learn > more right away, than fail to use the Linux box well at all. Let me > be sure my post is suitable before both asking and answering > questions. Thanks in advance, Karen > > --- Talk Mailing List talk@gtalug.org > http://gtalug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
Talk Mailing List talk@gtalug.org http://gtalug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
--- Talk Mailing List talk@gtalug.org http://gtalug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
--- Talk Mailing List talk@gtalug.org http://gtalug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
--- Talk Mailing List talk@gtalug.org http://gtalug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
--- Talk Mailing List talk@gtalug.org http://gtalug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
I'll keep this on-list since people seem to be interested! Libre Music Production has a good getting started guide on selecting a GNU/Linux distribution for pro audio: http://libremusicproduction.com/articles/advantages-choosing-audio-orientate... That article recommends an audio distribution, because they have certain tweaks applied, like the low latency kernel selection, or changes to /etc/security/limits.conf with respect to the audio group, etc. Using an audio distribution, or the KXStudio repositories, handles much of that for you. (But the KXStudio repositories don't include the kernel.) In Ubuntu, there's a linux-lowlatency package. In Debian, I added the Liquorix repositories to get that low latency kernel. That Libre Music Production article doesn't go into a lot of technical detail, but it explains: """ Realtime audio performance is important to many when working with audio software. What this means in real terms is having the recorded signal played back through your playback system without any audible delay. This is important when monitoring your performance. Latency is inherent in computers but there are things that can be done to minimize it. There are many tweaks, big and small, that Linux distros make under the hood that are beneficial to this and general audio performance. As an end user, you don't need to know the technical ins and outs of what these do. You just need to know that the end result is that audio processes are prioritized by the operating system, thus, allowing you to more easily achieve stable and/or low latency audio. """ There's more technical information on latency and audio production in the Ardour manual, but far more in depth than you really need to understand! http://manual.ardour.org/synchronization/latency-and-latency-compensation/ I've tried using the standard Debian Jessie kernel. With that on my machine, the best I can do without audio glitches (xruns) is about ~21ms latency. With liquorix, it's ~2ms. If you're playing something slow or flowy, you might not even notice the difference. But if you're playing a series of fast notes, or something rhythmic or percussive, it's really disorienting to have that slight delay between pressing the keys on your keyboard and hearing the sound. It's often noticeable in normal music performance. A low latency Linux kernel -- which is basically the standard Linux kernel, but with some changes around scheduling and deadlines -- just allows for a more natural feel for pro audio, where you can hear notice when you play them rather than with a slight delay. Hope that helps... Blaise On 15/12/15 03:27 PM, Karen Lewellen wrote:
Hi Blaise, one of two. Thanks for the off list invitation! I shall certainly write you, but at least given another post, will keep some of this on list. i am posting the software options in that reply. still can you explain, or can others give examples of low latency kernels? What a fascinating idea. More in a moment, Kare
On Tue, 15 Dec 2015, Blaise Alleyne wrote:
Hi Karen,
Thanks for the additional details!
I'm Debian-based these days, with the KXStudio repositories for current audio production software and a low latency liquorix kernel, though I'm also still running Ubuntu Studio on my home desktop.
One thing that may be a challenge (for which others on the list might have more knowledge) is your issue with speech in post-Squeeze Linux kernels. For pro audio work, the standard Squeeze kernel isn't going to be great... you want a low latency kernel if you want notes to play when you press them on a MIDI keyboard, or to be able to play back audio from several instrument sources at the same time reliably, nevermind to record any audio reliably.
So I'm not sure how you solve that problem -- an older low latency kernel perhaps, which supports your speech hardware requirements but also pro audio? I'm not quite sure.
(Also, are you using JACK yet? That may be another challenge with speech software, though an ALSA or Pulseaudio bridge may do the trick.)
Beyond that, maybe best to take the discussion off-list? Feel free to email me at blaise@apeironmusic.com.
Blaise
On 15/12/15 01:11 AM, Karen Lewellen wrote:
Hello Blaise, Thanks so very much in advance for the wisdom I feel sure you can provide. I honestly admit to being a touch of a singer snob who imagines one can only perform live with well other live people smiles. So when Bob wrote of your creating, I confess I got rather curious as well. As for command line music making tools, there are actually rather a few I am learning. I am compiling a list with links, since I do not know yet your distribution of preference, or exactly how you work. Articulating my desires musically may make more sense than the ssh telnet aspect truth be told. In all honesty however, I cannot say with hands on firmness that I can drive the car where I wish to go. I was more of a singer / arranger than a songwriter until the past few years. Now I have all this music I desire moving from the studio in my head and heart onto sheet music, into performing form, as I am sure you can understand. Since I am writing full arrangements, all the parts with my lyrics, I want to play all of the parts, piano, strings, guitar etc., that are in my head and then get the completed work into sheet certainly both audio and sheet possibly. How I imagine doing this, is with a quality piano / keyboard that also has several additional instrument options to simulate sound wise for composition only for now at least, the other instrument's for which I am writing. <Still awake?> Now, this is where my visual memory, blended with my lack of first hand Linux experience starts to get a bit...well hopeful. I imagine connecting said piano / keyboard to the m-audio audiophile 2496 sound card I have in mind, using any one of the dozen or so tools for the command line I am finding are included in Debian, writing each part one at a time, putting the piece together, and transferring the completed work to a composing package, you referenced Lillypoind, which is terrific, but there are a couple more. I am hunting the instrument along with the talent for the Linux side of my desire. The older the better in a way, I tend to be a buttons kind of girl, not a touch screen one. Granted I know some keyboards have multi-track sequencers built in. Letting me <I think? compose entirely on said keyboard and transfer the finished product...strong emphasis on the I think. There may be another way that I have not considered, I mean besides the traditional way of doing the recording, I am a radio producer too, so have pro tools, a mac a control surface etc. etc. Still I would rather use Linux because I know the composition programs exist, that i may be able to script in Linux some of what I need...not me, but tap into some sources for this. There is no real program for composition mac wise, certainly not going back to the edition I am using to run my pro tools setup. The ssh-telnet aspect simply lets me treat the Linux box like a server, running the commands from my main computer where I am already comfortable, both with my speech synthesizer, and in a small way with the command line based on my daily use of a comparative Linux shell. Oh that reminds me, I spoke of issues with speech in more current Linux Kernels. This is because the ability to use a hardware source for speech no longer exists in the new ones, like in Jessie. Only software speech which for me is out of the question. One can compile the new distribution with the older Kennel, but that. is. way!!! beyond me laughs. Is all this making more sense? Will have those programs for you tomorrow. Thanks for joining the adventure! I likewise thank you Bob for inviting Blaise to the party. Kare
On Mon, 14 Dec 2015, Blaise Alleyne wrote:
Hi Karen,
I don't have very much experience with command line tools for music in GNU/Linux, barring some pretty simple uses (encoding, monitoring MIDI notes, making minor edits to sheet music typeset in Lilypond generated by Rosegarden). But I have taken a head-first dive into audio production in GNU/Linux over the past few years, and I use it for live performance and for composition and home recording. I'd also be personally interested in at least some command line tools for doing some of the things I currently do in GUIs.
I don't think I fully understand what you're trying to do (both musically, or with the SSH component), but hopefully I can be of some assistance. Very curious to learn more about what you're hoping to do in case I can help!
Regards, Blaise
ps thanks for pinging me, Bob!
On 11/12/15 06:38 PM, Karen Lewellen wrote:
Wow that must have been amazing. The Linux audio list at yahoo groups is full of people mostly in Europe who use command line Linux tools for their music work, some of them are authors of packages included. Still it would be fun to witness it firsthand. Kare
On Fri, 11 Dec 2015, Bob Jonkman wrote:
At Software Freedom Day we had a great presentation on using Free Software for Musical Performance by Blaise Alleyne. He was using graphical tools for his performance, but has the Music-On-Linux part covered. He may have expertise in command-line musical performance tools too. I'll ping him with this message.
I wonder what it would take to convince Blaise to haul his studio equipment up to the room at Ryerson to do his presentation for GTALUG... :)
--Bob.
SFDToronto: http://wiki.softwarefreedomday.org/2015/Canada/Toronto/LibrePlanet
Bob Jonkman <bjonkman@sobac.com> Phone: +1-519-635-9413 SOBAC Microcomputer Services http://sobac.com/sobac/ Software --- Office & Business Automation --- Consulting GnuPG Fngrprnt:04F7 742B 8F54 C40A E115 26C2 B912 89B0 D2CC E5EA
On 10/12/15 07:17 PM, Karen Lewellen wrote:
>> greetings everyone, My name is Karen. I have only recently found >> this LUG, and joined the talk list. I am a professional singer/ >> songwriter and media producer with a unique Linux goal. I wish to >> make use of the varied console or command line based tools in Linux >> for my composition work, and if possible for accessing media >> materials too. I use adaptive technology, which is part of why my >> desire is to ssh telnet into my Linux box rather than work with it >> directly. I tend to prefer more traditional tools. for example one >> sound card in this box will be an m-audio audiofile 2496 >> production card to which I will be attaching my music keyboard. In >> any case while I have some of the tools I require, and firm >> knowledge that my goals are possible. I have not, at least not >> until now, found a Linux users group in Toronto where I can get the >> extra wisdom required. I am very used to Linux and UNIX based shell >> structures. I am using one at this moment based in freedsb, to >> draft my email, and use another based in Ubuntu for my nonprofit >> media newsroom's hosting account. Such is also part of why I want >> to start with a comparative way to use my Linux box. I would >> rather begin with a foundation where I can make use of and learn >> more right away, than fail to use the Linux box well at all. Let me >> be sure my post is suitable before both asking and answering >> questions. Thanks in advance, Karen >> >> --- Talk Mailing List talk@gtalug.org >> http://gtalug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk --- Talk Mailing List talk@gtalug.org http://gtalug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
--- Talk Mailing List talk@gtalug.org http://gtalug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
--- Talk Mailing List talk@gtalug.org http://gtalug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
--- Talk Mailing List talk@gtalug.org http://gtalug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
--- Talk Mailing List talk@gtalug.org http://gtalug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
--- Talk Mailing List talk@gtalug.org http://gtalug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
Hi Blaise, Again thanks for that terrific article link. I am wondering which of the two options presented is likely to allow for the greatest command line access? I am feeling avlinux, but that is just a feeling. The command line aspect is critical since a graphical structure will not work with speech for me if I come in from the outside. I will cripple check that to be certain though. Thanks again, Karen On Tue, 15 Dec 2015, Blaise Alleyne wrote:
I'll keep this on-list since people seem to be interested!
Libre Music Production has a good getting started guide on selecting a GNU/Linux distribution for pro audio: http://libremusicproduction.com/articles/advantages-choosing-audio-orientate...
That article recommends an audio distribution, because they have certain tweaks applied, like the low latency kernel selection, or changes to /etc/security/limits.conf with respect to the audio group, etc. Using an audio distribution, or the KXStudio repositories, handles much of that for you.
(But the KXStudio repositories don't include the kernel.)
In Ubuntu, there's a linux-lowlatency package. In Debian, I added the Liquorix repositories to get that low latency kernel.
That Libre Music Production article doesn't go into a lot of technical detail, but it explains: """ Realtime audio performance is important to many when working with audio software. What this means in real terms is having the recorded signal played back through your playback system without any audible delay. This is important when monitoring your performance. Latency is inherent in computers but there are things that can be done to minimize it.
There are many tweaks, big and small, that Linux distros make under the hood that are beneficial to this and general audio performance. As an end user, you don't need to know the technical ins and outs of what these do. You just need to know that the end result is that audio processes are prioritized by the operating system, thus, allowing you to more easily achieve stable and/or low latency audio. """
There's more technical information on latency and audio production in the Ardour manual, but far more in depth than you really need to understand! http://manual.ardour.org/synchronization/latency-and-latency-compensation/
I've tried using the standard Debian Jessie kernel. With that on my machine, the best I can do without audio glitches (xruns) is about ~21ms latency. With liquorix, it's ~2ms.
If you're playing something slow or flowy, you might not even notice the difference. But if you're playing a series of fast notes, or something rhythmic or percussive, it's really disorienting to have that slight delay between pressing the keys on your keyboard and hearing the sound. It's often noticeable in normal music performance.
A low latency Linux kernel -- which is basically the standard Linux kernel, but with some changes around scheduling and deadlines -- just allows for a more natural feel for pro audio, where you can hear notice when you play them rather than with a slight delay.
Hope that helps...
Blaise
On 15/12/15 03:27 PM, Karen Lewellen wrote:
Hi Blaise, one of two. Thanks for the off list invitation! I shall certainly write you, but at least given another post, will keep some of this on list. i am posting the software options in that reply. still can you explain, or can others give examples of low latency kernels? What a fascinating idea. More in a moment, Kare
On Tue, 15 Dec 2015, Blaise Alleyne wrote:
Hi Karen,
Thanks for the additional details!
I'm Debian-based these days, with the KXStudio repositories for current audio production software and a low latency liquorix kernel, though I'm also still running Ubuntu Studio on my home desktop.
One thing that may be a challenge (for which others on the list might have more knowledge) is your issue with speech in post-Squeeze Linux kernels. For pro audio work, the standard Squeeze kernel isn't going to be great... you want a low latency kernel if you want notes to play when you press them on a MIDI keyboard, or to be able to play back audio from several instrument sources at the same time reliably, nevermind to record any audio reliably.
So I'm not sure how you solve that problem -- an older low latency kernel perhaps, which supports your speech hardware requirements but also pro audio? I'm not quite sure.
(Also, are you using JACK yet? That may be another challenge with speech software, though an ALSA or Pulseaudio bridge may do the trick.)
Beyond that, maybe best to take the discussion off-list? Feel free to email me at blaise@apeironmusic.com.
Blaise
On 15/12/15 01:11 AM, Karen Lewellen wrote:
Hello Blaise, Thanks so very much in advance for the wisdom I feel sure you can provide. I honestly admit to being a touch of a singer snob who imagines one can only perform live with well other live people smiles. So when Bob wrote of your creating, I confess I got rather curious as well. As for command line music making tools, there are actually rather a few I am learning. I am compiling a list with links, since I do not know yet your distribution of preference, or exactly how you work. Articulating my desires musically may make more sense than the ssh telnet aspect truth be told. In all honesty however, I cannot say with hands on firmness that I can drive the car where I wish to go. I was more of a singer / arranger than a songwriter until the past few years. Now I have all this music I desire moving from the studio in my head and heart onto sheet music, into performing form, as I am sure you can understand. Since I am writing full arrangements, all the parts with my lyrics, I want to play all of the parts, piano, strings, guitar etc., that are in my head and then get the completed work into sheet certainly both audio and sheet possibly. How I imagine doing this, is with a quality piano / keyboard that also has several additional instrument options to simulate sound wise for composition only for now at least, the other instrument's for which I am writing. <Still awake?> Now, this is where my visual memory, blended with my lack of first hand Linux experience starts to get a bit...well hopeful. I imagine connecting said piano / keyboard to the m-audio audiophile 2496 sound card I have in mind, using any one of the dozen or so tools for the command line I am finding are included in Debian, writing each part one at a time, putting the piece together, and transferring the completed work to a composing package, you referenced Lillypoind, which is terrific, but there are a couple more. I am hunting the instrument along with the talent for the Linux side of my desire. The older the better in a way, I tend to be a buttons kind of girl, not a touch screen one. Granted I know some keyboards have multi-track sequencers built in. Letting me <I think? compose entirely on said keyboard and transfer the finished product...strong emphasis on the I think. There may be another way that I have not considered, I mean besides the traditional way of doing the recording, I am a radio producer too, so have pro tools, a mac a control surface etc. etc. Still I would rather use Linux because I know the composition programs exist, that i may be able to script in Linux some of what I need...not me, but tap into some sources for this. There is no real program for composition mac wise, certainly not going back to the edition I am using to run my pro tools setup. The ssh-telnet aspect simply lets me treat the Linux box like a server, running the commands from my main computer where I am already comfortable, both with my speech synthesizer, and in a small way with the command line based on my daily use of a comparative Linux shell. Oh that reminds me, I spoke of issues with speech in more current Linux Kernels. This is because the ability to use a hardware source for speech no longer exists in the new ones, like in Jessie. Only software speech which for me is out of the question. One can compile the new distribution with the older Kennel, but that. is. way!!! beyond me laughs. Is all this making more sense? Will have those programs for you tomorrow. Thanks for joining the adventure! I likewise thank you Bob for inviting Blaise to the party. Kare
On Mon, 14 Dec 2015, Blaise Alleyne wrote:
Hi Karen,
I don't have very much experience with command line tools for music in GNU/Linux, barring some pretty simple uses (encoding, monitoring MIDI notes, making minor edits to sheet music typeset in Lilypond generated by Rosegarden). But I have taken a head-first dive into audio production in GNU/Linux over the past few years, and I use it for live performance and for composition and home recording. I'd also be personally interested in at least some command line tools for doing some of the things I currently do in GUIs.
I don't think I fully understand what you're trying to do (both musically, or with the SSH component), but hopefully I can be of some assistance. Very curious to learn more about what you're hoping to do in case I can help!
Regards, Blaise
ps thanks for pinging me, Bob!
On 11/12/15 06:38 PM, Karen Lewellen wrote:
Wow that must have been amazing. The Linux audio list at yahoo groups is full of people mostly in Europe who use command line Linux tools for their music work, some of them are authors of packages included. Still it would be fun to witness it firsthand. Kare
On Fri, 11 Dec 2015, Bob Jonkman wrote:
At Software Freedom Day we had a great presentation on using Free Software for Musical Performance by Blaise Alleyne. He was using graphical tools for his performance, but has the Music-On-Linux part covered. He may have expertise in command-line musical performance tools too. I'll ping him with this message.
I wonder what it would take to convince Blaise to haul his studio equipment up to the room at Ryerson to do his presentation for GTALUG... :)
--Bob.
SFDToronto: http://wiki.softwarefreedomday.org/2015/Canada/Toronto/LibrePlanet
Bob Jonkman <bjonkman@sobac.com> Phone: +1-519-635-9413 SOBAC Microcomputer Services http://sobac.com/sobac/ Software --- Office & Business Automation --- Consulting GnuPG Fngrprnt:04F7 742B 8F54 C40A E115 26C2 B912 89B0 D2CC E5EA
On 10/12/15 07:17 PM, Karen Lewellen wrote: >>> greetings everyone, My name is Karen. I have only recently found >>> this LUG, and joined the talk list. I am a professional singer/ >>> songwriter and media producer with a unique Linux goal. I wish to >>> make use of the varied console or command line based tools in Linux >>> for my composition work, and if possible for accessing media >>> materials too. I use adaptive technology, which is part of why my >>> desire is to ssh telnet into my Linux box rather than work with it >>> directly. I tend to prefer more traditional tools. for example one >>> sound card in this box will be an m-audio audiofile 2496 >>> production card to which I will be attaching my music keyboard. In >>> any case while I have some of the tools I require, and firm >>> knowledge that my goals are possible. I have not, at least not >>> until now, found a Linux users group in Toronto where I can get the >>> extra wisdom required. I am very used to Linux and UNIX based shell >>> structures. I am using one at this moment based in freedsb, to >>> draft my email, and use another based in Ubuntu for my nonprofit >>> media newsroom's hosting account. Such is also part of why I want >>> to start with a comparative way to use my Linux box. I would >>> rather begin with a foundation where I can make use of and learn >>> more right away, than fail to use the Linux box well at all. Let me >>> be sure my post is suitable before both asking and answering >>> questions. Thanks in advance, Karen >>> >>> --- Talk Mailing List talk@gtalug.org >>> http://gtalug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > --- > Talk Mailing List > talk@gtalug.org > http://gtalug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > --- Talk Mailing List talk@gtalug.org http://gtalug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
--- Talk Mailing List talk@gtalug.org http://gtalug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
--- Talk Mailing List talk@gtalug.org http://gtalug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
--- Talk Mailing List talk@gtalug.org http://gtalug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
--- Talk Mailing List talk@gtalug.org http://gtalug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
--- Talk Mailing List talk@gtalug.org http://gtalug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
Oh, I lost one of these. Blaise asked if i already have my keyboard. Long & Mcquade is open on Sunday going the season, so i am going to view a few tomorrow! Thanks again, Kare On Sat, 19 Dec 2015, Karen Lewellen wrote:
Hi Blaise, Again thanks for that terrific article link. I am wondering which of the two options presented is likely to allow for the greatest command line access? I am feeling avlinux, but that is just a feeling. The command line aspect is critical since a graphical structure will not work with speech for me if I come in from the outside. I will cripple check that to be certain though. Thanks again, Karen
On Tue, 15 Dec 2015, Blaise Alleyne wrote:
I'll keep this on-list since people seem to be interested!
Libre Music Production has a good getting started guide on selecting a GNU/Linux distribution for pro audio: http://libremusicproduction.com/articles/advantages-choosing-audio-orientate...
That article recommends an audio distribution, because they have certain tweaks applied, like the low latency kernel selection, or changes to /etc/security/limits.conf with respect to the audio group, etc. Using an audio distribution, or the KXStudio repositories, handles much of that for you.
(But the KXStudio repositories don't include the kernel.)
In Ubuntu, there's a linux-lowlatency package. In Debian, I added the Liquorix repositories to get that low latency kernel.
That Libre Music Production article doesn't go into a lot of technical detail, but it explains: """ Realtime audio performance is important to many when working with audio software. What this means in real terms is having the recorded signal played back through your playback system without any audible delay. This is important when monitoring your performance. Latency is inherent in computers but there are things that can be done to minimize it.
There are many tweaks, big and small, that Linux distros make under the hood that are beneficial to this and general audio performance. As an end user, you don't need to know the technical ins and outs of what these do. You just need to know that the end result is that audio processes are prioritized by the operating system, thus, allowing you to more easily achieve stable and/or low latency audio. """
There's more technical information on latency and audio production in the Ardour manual, but far more in depth than you really need to understand! http://manual.ardour.org/synchronization/latency-and-latency-compensation/
I've tried using the standard Debian Jessie kernel. With that on my machine, the best I can do without audio glitches (xruns) is about ~21ms latency. With liquorix, it's ~2ms.
If you're playing something slow or flowy, you might not even notice the difference. But if you're playing a series of fast notes, or something rhythmic or percussive, it's really disorienting to have that slight delay between pressing the keys on your keyboard and hearing the sound. It's often noticeable in normal music performance.
A low latency Linux kernel -- which is basically the standard Linux kernel, but with some changes around scheduling and deadlines -- just allows for a more natural feel for pro audio, where you can hear notice when you play them rather than with a slight delay.
Hope that helps...
Blaise
On 15/12/15 03:27 PM, Karen Lewellen wrote:
Hi Blaise, one of two. Thanks for the off list invitation! I shall certainly write you, but at least given another post, will keep some of this on list. i am posting the software options in that reply. still can you explain, or can others give examples of low latency kernels? What a fascinating idea. More in a moment, Kare
On Tue, 15 Dec 2015, Blaise Alleyne wrote:
Hi Karen,
Thanks for the additional details!
I'm Debian-based these days, with the KXStudio repositories for current audio production software and a low latency liquorix kernel, though I'm also still running Ubuntu Studio on my home desktop.
One thing that may be a challenge (for which others on the list might have more knowledge) is your issue with speech in post-Squeeze Linux kernels. For pro audio work, the standard Squeeze kernel isn't going to be great... you want a low latency kernel if you want notes to play when you press them on a MIDI keyboard, or to be able to play back audio from several instrument sources at the same time reliably, nevermind to record any audio reliably.
So I'm not sure how you solve that problem -- an older low latency kernel perhaps, which supports your speech hardware requirements but also pro audio? I'm not quite sure.
(Also, are you using JACK yet? That may be another challenge with speech software, though an ALSA or Pulseaudio bridge may do the trick.)
Beyond that, maybe best to take the discussion off-list? Feel free to email me at blaise@apeironmusic.com.
Blaise
On 15/12/15 01:11 AM, Karen Lewellen wrote:
Hello Blaise, Thanks so very much in advance for the wisdom I feel sure you can provide. I honestly admit to being a touch of a singer snob who imagines one can only perform live with well other live people smiles. So when Bob wrote of your creating, I confess I got rather curious as well. As for command line music making tools, there are actually rather a few I am learning. I am compiling a list with links, since I do not know yet your distribution of preference, or exactly how you work. Articulating my desires musically may make more sense than the ssh telnet aspect truth be told. In all honesty however, I cannot say with hands on firmness that I can drive the car where I wish to go. I was more of a singer / arranger than a songwriter until the past few years. Now I have all this music I desire moving from the studio in my head and heart onto sheet music, into performing form, as I am sure you can understand. Since I am writing full arrangements, all the parts with my lyrics, I want to play all of the parts, piano, strings, guitar etc., that are in my head and then get the completed work into sheet certainly both audio and sheet possibly. How I imagine doing this, is with a quality piano / keyboard that also has several additional instrument options to simulate sound wise for composition only for now at least, the other instrument's for which I am writing. <Still awake?> Now, this is where my visual memory, blended with my lack of first hand Linux experience starts to get a bit...well hopeful. I imagine connecting said piano / keyboard to the m-audio audiophile 2496 sound card I have in mind, using any one of the dozen or so tools for the command line I am finding are included in Debian, writing each part one at a time, putting the piece together, and transferring the completed work to a composing package, you referenced Lillypoind, which is terrific, but there are a couple more. I am hunting the instrument along with the talent for the Linux side of my desire. The older the better in a way, I tend to be a buttons kind of girl, not a touch screen one. Granted I know some keyboards have multi-track sequencers built in. Letting me <I think? compose entirely on said keyboard and transfer the finished product...strong emphasis on the I think. There may be another way that I have not considered, I mean besides the traditional way of doing the recording, I am a radio producer too, so have pro tools, a mac a control surface etc. etc. Still I would rather use Linux because I know the composition programs exist, that i may be able to script in Linux some of what I need...not me, but tap into some sources for this. There is no real program for composition mac wise, certainly not going back to the edition I am using to run my pro tools setup. The ssh-telnet aspect simply lets me treat the Linux box like a server, running the commands from my main computer where I am already comfortable, both with my speech synthesizer, and in a small way with the command line based on my daily use of a comparative Linux shell. Oh that reminds me, I spoke of issues with speech in more current Linux Kernels. This is because the ability to use a hardware source for speech no longer exists in the new ones, like in Jessie. Only software speech which for me is out of the question. One can compile the new distribution with the older Kennel, but that. is. way!!! beyond me laughs. Is all this making more sense? Will have those programs for you tomorrow. Thanks for joining the adventure! I likewise thank you Bob for inviting Blaise to the party. Kare
On Mon, 14 Dec 2015, Blaise Alleyne wrote:
Hi Karen,
I don't have very much experience with command line tools for music in GNU/Linux, barring some pretty simple uses (encoding, monitoring MIDI notes, making minor edits to sheet music typeset in Lilypond generated by Rosegarden). But I have taken a head-first dive into audio production in GNU/Linux over the past few years, and I use it for live performance and for composition and home recording. I'd also be personally interested in at least some command line tools for doing some of the things I currently do in GUIs.
I don't think I fully understand what you're trying to do (both musically, or with the SSH component), but hopefully I can be of some assistance. Very curious to learn more about what you're hoping to do in case I can help!
Regards, Blaise
ps thanks for pinging me, Bob!
On 11/12/15 06:38 PM, Karen Lewellen wrote: > Wow that must have been amazing. The Linux audio list at yahoo > groups is full > of people mostly in Europe who use command line Linux tools for > their music > work, some of them are authors of packages included. > Still it would be fun to witness it firsthand. > Kare > > > On Fri, 11 Dec 2015, Bob Jonkman wrote: > > At Software Freedom Day we had a great presentation on using > Free > Software for Musical Performance by Blaise Alleyne. He was using > graphical tools for his performance, but has the Music-On-Linux > part > covered. He may have expertise in command-line musical > performance > tools too. I'll ping him with this message. > > I wonder what it would take to convince Blaise to haul his > studio > equipment up to the room at Ryerson to do his presentation for > GTALUG... :) > > --Bob. > > SFDToronto: > http://wiki.softwarefreedomday.org/2015/Canada/Toronto/LibrePlanet > > > Bob Jonkman <bjonkman@sobac.com> Phone: +1-519-635-9413 > SOBAC Microcomputer Services http://sobac.com/sobac/ > Software --- Office & Business Automation --- Consulting > GnuPG Fngrprnt:04F7 742B 8F54 C40A E115 26C2 B912 89B0 D2CC E5EA > > > On 10/12/15 07:17 PM, Karen Lewellen wrote: > > > > greetings everyone, My name is Karen. I have only > > > > recently found > > > > this LUG, and joined the talk list. I am a professional > > > > singer/ > > > > songwriter and media producer with a unique Linux goal. I > > > > wish to > > > > make use of the varied console or command line based tools > > > > in Linux > > > > for my composition work, and if possible for accessing > > > > media > > > > materials too. I use adaptive technology, which is part of > > > > why my > > > > desire is to ssh telnet into my Linux box rather than work > > > > with it > > > > directly. I tend to prefer more traditional tools. for > > > > example one > > > > sound card in this box will be an m-audio audiofile 2496 > > > > production card to which I will be attaching my music > > > > keyboard. In > > > > any case while I have some of the tools I require, and > > > > firm > > > > knowledge that my goals are possible. I have not, at least > > > > not > > > > until now, found a Linux users group in Toronto where I > > > > can get the > > > > extra wisdom required. I am very used to Linux and UNIX > > > > based shell > > > > structures. I am using one at this moment based in > > > > freedsb, to > > > > draft my email, and use another based in Ubuntu for my > > > > nonprofit > > > > media newsroom's hosting account. Such is also part of why > > > > I want > > > > to start with a comparative way to use my Linux box. I > > > > would > > > > rather begin with a foundation where I can make use of and > > > > learn > > > > more right away, than fail to use the Linux box well at > > > > all. Let me > > > > be sure my post is suitable before both asking and > > > > answering > > > > questions. Thanks in advance, Karen > > > > > > > > --- Talk Mailing List talk@gtalug.org > > > > http://gtalug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > > --- > > Talk Mailing List > > talk@gtalug.org > > http://gtalug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > > > --- > Talk Mailing List > talk@gtalug.org > http://gtalug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
--- Talk Mailing List talk@gtalug.org http://gtalug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
--- Talk Mailing List talk@gtalug.org http://gtalug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
--- Talk Mailing List talk@gtalug.org http://gtalug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
--- Talk Mailing List talk@gtalug.org http://gtalug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
--- Talk Mailing List talk@gtalug.org http://gtalug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
--- Talk Mailing List talk@gtalug.org http://gtalug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
I don't think it'll make much of a difference for command line usage. The differences are more in the graphical desktop environments, packaging and distribution, etc. The reason I like KXStudio is that you can install the distribution on the machine, *or* you can just add the KXStudio repositories to a supported Debian or Ubuntu installation. Since I was already using Debian (Jessie), it was convenient for me to just add the KXStudio repositories to my existing machine. (The only extra step was getting the Liquorix kernel, since the KXStudio repositories don't include a low latency kernel.) That way I could have all the stability and familiarity of Debian, but with up-to-date audio packages, and KXStudio assistance in optimizing configuration for real-time audio. I haven't tried AVLinux myself, but I don't think it'll be all that different from Debian or KXStudio as for as command line access goes. Blaise ps I was scanning the discussion on LAU about this. I think F. Silvain is right that most of the differences between difference audio distributions aren't relevant for command line usage ( http://lists.linuxaudio.org/pipermail/linux-audio-user/2015-December/103578.... ) , but he just overlooked a few things: - package management, software updates: if you're familiar with Debian/Ubuntu, then you might prefer aptitude/apt-get to Arch's repository management, or vice versa. This is used for installing new packages, or getting updates to existing packages - The audio distributions still might help with some of the configuration for low latency audio, and getting the latest pro audio packages. You could certainly make those adjustments manually in a non-audio distro, but if you haven't done it before, I still think it'd be worth going with something like AVLinux or KXStudio to reduce that learning curve and get started faster On Sat Dec 19 19:23:35 UTC 2015, Karen Lewellen wrote:
Hi Blaise, Again thanks for that terrific article link. I am wondering which of the two options presented is likely to allow for the greatest command line access? I am feeling avlinux, but that is just a feeling. The command line aspect is critical since a graphical structure will not work with speech for me if I come in from the outside. I will cripple check that to be certain though. Thanks again, Karen
On Tue, 15 Dec 2015, Blaise Alleyne wrote:
I'll keep this on-list since people seem to be interested!
Libre Music Production has a good getting started guide on selecting a GNU/Linux distribution for pro audio: http://libremusicproduction.com/articles/advantages-choosing-audio-orientate...
That article recommends an audio distribution, because they have certain tweaks applied, like the low latency kernel selection, or changes to /etc/security/limits.conf with respect to the audio group, etc. Using an audio distribution, or the KXStudio repositories, handles much of that for you.
(But the KXStudio repositories don't include the kernel.)
In Ubuntu, there's a linux-lowlatency package. In Debian, I added the Liquorix repositories to get that low latency kernel.
That Libre Music Production article doesn't go into a lot of technical detail, but it explains: """ Realtime audio performance is important to many when working with audio software. What this means in real terms is having the recorded signal played back through your playback system without any audible delay. This is important when monitoring your performance. Latency is inherent in computers but there are things that can be done to minimize it.
There are many tweaks, big and small, that Linux distros make under the hood that are beneficial to this and general audio performance. As an end user, you don't need to know the technical ins and outs of what these do. You just need to know that the end result is that audio processes are prioritized by the operating system, thus, allowing you to more easily achieve stable and/or low latency audio. """
There's more technical information on latency and audio production in the Ardour manual, but far more in depth than you really need to understand! http://manual.ardour.org/synchronization/latency-and-latency-compensation/
I've tried using the standard Debian Jessie kernel. With that on my machine, the best I can do without audio glitches (xruns) is about ~21ms latency. With liquorix, it's ~2ms.
If you're playing something slow or flowy, you might not even notice the difference. But if you're playing a series of fast notes, or something rhythmic or percussive, it's really disorienting to have that slight delay between pressing the keys on your keyboard and hearing the sound. It's often noticeable in normal music performance.
A low latency Linux kernel -- which is basically the standard Linux kernel, but with some changes around scheduling and deadlines -- just allows for a more natural feel for pro audio, where you can hear notice when you play them rather than with a slight delay.
Hope that helps...
Blaise
On 15/12/15 03:27 PM, Karen Lewellen wrote:
Hi Blaise, one of two. Thanks for the off list invitation! I shall certainly write you, but at least given another post, will keep some of this on list. i am posting the software options in that reply. still can you explain, or can others give examples of low latency kernels? What a fascinating idea. More in a moment, Kare
On Tue, 15 Dec 2015, Blaise Alleyne wrote:
Hi Karen,
Thanks for the additional details!
I'm Debian-based these days, with the KXStudio repositories for current audio production software and a low latency liquorix kernel, though I'm also still running Ubuntu Studio on my home desktop.
One thing that may be a challenge (for which others on the list might have more knowledge) is your issue with speech in post-Squeeze Linux kernels. For pro audio work, the standard Squeeze kernel isn't going to be great... you want a low latency kernel if you want notes to play when you press them on a MIDI keyboard, or to be able to play back audio from several instrument sources at the same time reliably, nevermind to record any audio reliably.
So I'm not sure how you solve that problem -- an older low latency kernel perhaps, which supports your speech hardware requirements but also pro audio? I'm not quite sure.
(Also, are you using JACK yet? That may be another challenge with speech software, though an ALSA or Pulseaudio bridge may do the trick.)
Beyond that, maybe best to take the discussion off-list? Feel free to email me at blaise at apeironmusic.com.
Blaise
On 15/12/15 01:11 AM, Karen Lewellen wrote:
Hello Blaise, Thanks so very much in advance for the wisdom I feel sure you can provide. I honestly admit to being a touch of a singer snob who imagines one can only perform live with well other live people smiles. So when Bob wrote of your creating, I confess I got rather curious as well. As for command line music making tools, there are actually rather a few I am learning. I am compiling a list with links, since I do not know yet your distribution of preference, or exactly how you work. Articulating my desires musically may make more sense than the ssh telnet aspect truth be told. In all honesty however, I cannot say with hands on firmness that I can drive the car where I wish to go. I was more of a singer / arranger than a songwriter until the past few years. Now I have all this music I desire moving from the studio in my head and heart onto sheet music, into performing form, as I am sure you can understand. Since I am writing full arrangements, all the parts with my lyrics, I want to play all of the parts, piano, strings, guitar etc., that are in my head and then get the completed work into sheet certainly both audio and sheet possibly. How I imagine doing this, is with a quality piano / keyboard that also has several additional instrument options to simulate sound wise for composition only for now at least, the other instrument's for which I am writing. <Still awake?> Now, this is where my visual memory, blended with my lack of first hand Linux experience starts to get a bit...well hopeful. I imagine connecting said piano / keyboard to the m-audio audiophile 2496 sound card I have in mind, using any one of the dozen or so tools for the command line I am finding are included in Debian, writing each part one at a time, putting the piece together, and transferring the completed work to a composing package, you referenced Lillypoind, which is terrific, but there are a couple more. I am hunting the instrument along with the talent for the Linux side of my desire. The older the better in a way, I tend to be a buttons kind of girl, not a touch screen one. Granted I know some keyboards have multi-track sequencers built in. Letting me <I think? compose entirely on said keyboard and transfer the finished product...strong emphasis on the I think. There may be another way that I have not considered, I mean besides the traditional way of doing the recording, I am a radio producer too, so have pro tools, a mac a control surface etc. etc. Still I would rather use Linux because I know the composition programs exist, that i may be able to script in Linux some of what I need...not me, but tap into some sources for this. There is no real program for composition mac wise, certainly not going back to the edition I am using to run my pro tools setup. The ssh-telnet aspect simply lets me treat the Linux box like a server, running the commands from my main computer where I am already comfortable, both with my speech synthesizer, and in a small way with the command line based on my daily use of a comparative Linux shell. Oh that reminds me, I spoke of issues with speech in more current Linux Kernels. This is because the ability to use a hardware source for speech no longer exists in the new ones, like in Jessie. Only software speech which for me is out of the question. One can compile the new distribution with the older Kennel, but that. is. way!!! beyond me laughs. Is all this making more sense? Will have those programs for you tomorrow. Thanks for joining the adventure! I likewise thank you Bob for inviting Blaise to the party. Kare
On Mon, 14 Dec 2015, Blaise Alleyne wrote:
Hi Karen,
I don't have very much experience with command line tools for music in GNU/Linux, barring some pretty simple uses (encoding, monitoring MIDI notes, making minor edits to sheet music typeset in Lilypond generated by Rosegarden). But I have taken a head-first dive into audio production in GNU/Linux over the past few years, and I use it for live performance and for composition and home recording. I'd also be personally interested in at least some command line tools for doing some of the things I currently do in GUIs.
I don't think I fully understand what you're trying to do (both musically, or with the SSH component), but hopefully I can be of some assistance. Very curious to learn more about what you're hoping to do in case I can help!
Regards, Blaise
ps thanks for pinging me, Bob!
On 11/12/15 06:38 PM, Karen Lewellen wrote: > Wow that must have been amazing. The Linux audio list at yahoo groups is full > of people mostly in Europe who use command line Linux tools for their music > work, some of them are authors of packages included. > Still it would be fun to witness it firsthand. > Kare > > > On Fri, 11 Dec 2015, Bob Jonkman wrote: > > At Software Freedom Day we had a great presentation on using Free > Software for Musical Performance by Blaise Alleyne. He was using > graphical tools for his performance, but has the Music-On-Linux part > covered. He may have expertise in command-line musical performance > tools too. I'll ping him with this message. > > I wonder what it would take to convince Blaise to haul his studio > equipment up to the room at Ryerson to do his presentation for > GTALUG... :) > > --Bob. > > SFDToronto: > http://wiki.softwarefreedomday.org/2015/Canada/Toronto/LibrePlanet > > > Bob Jonkman <bjonkman at sobac.com> Phone: +1-519-635-9413 > SOBAC Microcomputer Services http://sobac.com/sobac/ > Software --- Office & Business Automation --- Consulting > GnuPG Fngrprnt:04F7 742B 8F54 C40A E115 26C2 B912 89B0 D2CC E5EA > > > On 10/12/15 07:17 PM, Karen Lewellen wrote: >>>> greetings everyone, My name is Karen. I have only recently found >>>> this LUG, and joined the talk list. I am a professional singer/ >>>> songwriter and media producer with a unique Linux goal. I wish to >>>> make use of the varied console or command line based tools in Linux >>>> for my composition work, and if possible for accessing media >>>> materials too. I use adaptive technology, which is part of why my >>>> desire is to ssh telnet into my Linux box rather than work with it >>>> directly. I tend to prefer more traditional tools. for example one >>>> sound card in this box will be an m-audio audiofile 2496 >>>> production card to which I will be attaching my music keyboard. In >>>> any case while I have some of the tools I require, and firm >>>> knowledge that my goals are possible. I have not, at least not >>>> until now, found a Linux users group in Toronto where I can get the >>>> extra wisdom required. I am very used to Linux and UNIX based shell >>>> structures. I am using one at this moment based in freedsb, to >>>> draft my email, and use another based in Ubuntu for my nonprofit >>>> media newsroom's hosting account. Such is also part of why I want >>>> to start with a comparative way to use my Linux box. I would >>>> rather begin with a foundation where I can make use of and learn >>>> more right away, than fail to use the Linux box well at all. Let me >>>> be sure my post is suitable before both asking and answering >>>> questions. Thanks in advance, Karen >>>> >>>> --- Talk Mailing List talk at gtalug.org >>>> http://gtalug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk >> --- >> Talk Mailing List >> talk at gtalug.org >> http://gtalug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk >> > --- > Talk Mailing List > talk at gtalug.org > http://gtalug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
--- Talk Mailing List talk at gtalug.org http://gtalug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
--- Talk Mailing List talk at gtalug.org http://gtalug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
--- Talk Mailing List talk at gtalug.org http://gtalug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
--- Talk Mailing List talk at gtalug.org http://gtalug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
--- Talk Mailing List talk at gtalug.org http://gtalug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
Happy new year Blaise, everyone, Now that I am back in professional groove, let me speak to a couple of these in context. On Tue, 22 Dec 2015, Blaise Alleyne wrote:
I don't think it'll make much of a difference for command line usage. The differences are more in the graphical desktop environments, packaging and distribution, etc. This certainly makes sense, and as you discovered from my list of various command line programs for various music creation, they are largely in stable Debian distributions already.
The reason I like KXStudio is that you can install the distribution on the machine, *or* you can just add the KXStudio repositories to a supported Debian or Ubuntu installation. Again, you are the voice of practical reason. granted, I prefer installing the best Debian first then layering in the extras. Some posts here in other therads though may suggest issues with Jessie. I want this machine to automatically boot to the console, since i will not be using it directly. If Jessie now makes this a challenge, what is the best and least difficult solution?
Since I was already using Debian (Jessie), it was convenient for me to just add the KXStudio repositories to my existing machine. (The only extra step was getting the Liquorix kernel, since the KXStudio repositories don't include a low latency kernel.) That way I could have all the stability and familiarity of Debian, but with up-to-date audio packages, and KXStudio assistance in optimizing configuration for real-time audio.
Stability is 10000% the goal here, I do not want to spend or lose allot of time because things do not work well together. I am simply not that solid in Debian and have never found locally in person training in the operating system.
I haven't tried AVLinux myself, but I don't think it'll be all that different
from Debian or KXStudio as for as command line access goes.
I am really feeling that it will be easiest to add the tools like kxstudio and the low latency kennel to a stable established Debian floor, booting into the console assured I mean.
ps I was scanning the discussion on LAU about this. I think F. Silvain is right that most of the differences between difference audio distributions aren't relevant for command line usage ( ) , but he just overlooked a few things:
I might be wrong, but i believe Fanci is a woman, and by her own admission a hobbyist in music making not a professional. Still as I said before there are so many command line tools that do the job, those may be best regardless.
- package management, software updates: if you're familiar with Debian/Ubuntu, then you might prefer aptitude/apt-get to Arch's repository management, or vice versa. This is used for installing new packages, or getting updates to existing packages
but this is my point, I have absolutely zero experience updating packages in this way, certainly no positive efforts. I want to build this house for what I desire and keep using that house as long as possible without having to upgrade every time Debian developers change their hair style if that makes sense.
- The audio distributions still might help with some of the configuration for low latency audio, and getting the latest pro audio packages. You could certainly make those adjustments manually in a non-audio distro, but if you haven't done it before, I still think it'd be worth going with something like AVLinux or KXStudio to reduce that learning curve and get started faster
Amen brother! Kare
>> Kare >> >> >> On Fri, 11 Dec 2015, Bob Jonkman wrote: >> >> At Software Freedom Day we had a great presentation on using Free >> Software for Musical Performance by Blaise Alleyne. He was using >> graphical tools for his performance, but has the Music-On-Linux part >> covered. He may have expertise in command-line musical performance >> tools too. I'll ping him with this message. >> >> I wonder what it would take to convince Blaise to haul his studio >> equipment up to the room at Ryerson to do his presentation for >> GTALUG... :) >> >> --Bob. >> >> SFDToronto: >> http://wiki.softwarefreedomday.org/2015/Canada/Toronto/LibrePlanet >> >> >> Bob Jonkman <bjonkman at sobac.com> Phone: +1-519-635-9413 >> SOBAC Microcomputer Services http://sobac.com/sobac/ >> Software --- Office & Business Automation --- Consulting >> GnuPG Fngrprnt:04F7 742B 8F54 C40A E115 26C2 B912 89B0 D2CC E5EA >> >> >> On 10/12/15 07:17 PM, Karen Lewellen wrote: >>>>> greetings everyone, My name is Karen. I have only recently found >>>>> this LUG, and joined the talk list. I am a professional singer/ >>>>> songwriter and media producer with a unique Linux goal. I wish to >>>>> make use of the varied console or command line based tools in Linux >>>>> for my composition work, and if possible for accessing media >>>>> materials too. I use adaptive technology, which is part of why my >>>>> desire is to ssh telnet into my Linux box rather than work with it >>>>> directly. I tend to prefer more traditional tools. for example one >>>>> sound card in this box will be an m-audio audiofile 2496 >>>>> production card to which I will be attaching my music keyboard. In >>>>> any case while I have some of the tools I require, and firm >>>>> knowledge that my goals are possible. I have not, at least not >>>>> until now, found a Linux users group in Toronto where I can get the >>>>> extra wisdom required. I am very used to Linux and UNIX based shell >>>>> structures. I am using one at this moment based in freedsb, to >>>>> draft my email, and use another based in Ubuntu for my nonprofit >>>>> media newsroom's hosting account. Such is also part of why I want >>>>> to start with a comparative way to use my Linux box. I would >>>>> rather begin with a foundation where I can make use of and learn >>>>> more right away, than fail to use the Linux box well at all. Let me >>>>> be sure my post is suitable before both asking and answering >>>>> questions. Thanks in advance, Karen >>>>> >>>>> --- Talk Mailing List talk at gtalug.org >>>>> http://gtalug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk >>> --- >>> Talk Mailing List >>> talk at gtalug.org >>> http://gtalug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk >>> >> --- >> Talk Mailing List >> talk at gtalug.org >> http://gtalug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > > --- > Talk Mailing List > talk at gtalug.org > http://gtalug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > --- Talk Mailing List talk at gtalug.org http://gtalug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
--- Talk Mailing List talk at gtalug.org http://gtalug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
--- Talk Mailing List talk at gtalug.org http://gtalug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
--- Talk Mailing List talk at gtalug.org http://gtalug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
--- Talk Mailing List talk@gtalug.org http://gtalug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
Greetings I have been following this discussion with some interest due to both interest in the msuical side and in the computational side. On Mon, Jan 4, 2016 at 12:49 PM, Karen Lewellen <klewellen@shellworld.net> wrote:
Happy new year Blaise, everyone, Now that I am back in professional groove, let me speak to a couple of these in context.
On Tue, 22 Dec 2015, Blaise Alleyne wrote:
I don't think it'll make much of a difference for command line usage. The differences are more in the graphical desktop environments, packaging and distribution, etc.
This certainly makes sense, and as you discovered from my list of various command line programs for various music creation, they are largely in stable Debian distributions already.
The reason I like KXStudio is that you can install the distribution on the machine, *or* you can just add the KXStudio repositories to a supported Debian or Ubuntu installation.
Again, you are the voice of practical reason. granted, I prefer installing the best Debian first then layering in the extras. Some posts here in other therads though may suggest issues with Jessie. I want this machine to automatically boot to the console, since i will not be using it directly. If Jessie now makes this a challenge, what is the best and least difficult solution?
When it comes to software there seems to be very very rarely a best AND least difficult solution. A good solution is often a lot of work and a solution that is 'easy' isn't often very good.
Since I was already using Debian (Jessie), it was convenient for me to just add the KXStudio repositories to my existing machine. (The only extra step was getting the Liquorix kernel, since the KXStudio repositories don't include a low latency kernel.) That way I could have all the stability and familiarity of Debian, but with up-to-date audio packages, and KXStudio assistance in optimizing configuration for real-time audio.
Stability is 10000% the goal here, I do not want to spend or lose allot of time because things do not work well together. I am simply not that solid in Debian and have never found locally in person training in the operating system.
I think you can find some kind of web traingin fro RedHat and OpenSuse but I think that's it. My experience has been gotten in this kind of fashion (using a story to illustrate.) A young man was hired to work in the bank (small local US bank here - - its an OLD story!). He wanted to get ahead didn't want to appear stupid yet wanted to learn. He had heard that the owner/manager/banker was a man of few words but much wisdom. So he made an appointment to see his boss. At the appointed time he arrived and was escorted into the inner sanctum. After a brief greeting he asked, "How do I make get ahead?" having thought that this question would give him the most mileage with the least amount of time taken from his boss. The response, "Good decisions!" from his boss. He left and spent time pondering this response whilst doing his work. After a period of time he felt that he had the next question that needed his boss's input. Again an appointment with this time the question being "How do I know how to make good decisions?. His boss's response - - - "Experience." Again he left and pondered further and still felt stuck. Yes he understood that he needed good decisions to get somewhere and that it took experience to make good decisions but He also understood that he was NOT experienced. So he made another appointment. This time he asked "How do I get experience so that I can make good decisions?". The response was very pithy, being just two words - - - "Bad decisions!" Therein lies all my experience with debian where I have been for about 10 years now. Started well into adulthood as pcs came along when I was already in my 20s I have found that cycle of decisions made, found to be bad, wrong or inadequate, followed by my learning how to get out of the mess and then working further to get a solution that did/does what I want it to has become my normal. snip
- package management, software updates: if you're familiar with Debian/Ubuntu, then you might prefer aptitude/apt-get to Arch's repository management, or vice versa. This is used for installing new packages, or getting updates to existing packages
I have worked from aptitude back to apt-get as well. Apt-get is always there, even aptitude isn't always there.
but this is my point, I have absolutely zero experience updating packages in this way, certainly no positive efforts. I want to build this house for what I desire and keep using that house as long as possible without having to upgrade every time Debian developers change their hair style if that makes sense.
This is a huge issue. Even better is the documentation that isn't or is for a version that is 10 or 12 years old. I'm not sure its changeable because the people that write the software don't care about this. Documentation is very much an after thought, if and when it is. Hopefully you can find a guru or mentor who is somewhat local so that you can call them easily so that you might be ideas or help or maybe even just a shoulder to cry on. While I think Debian is a viable operating system it does have its issues. (Please note that I AM still using it!) Hopefully you will persevere. It should be worth it if you do, if you don't you will be no less frustrated than if you continue so enjoy the ride - - - it will be interesting. (Hoping the foregoing was encouragement rather than anything else!) Dee
On Mon, Jan 04, 2016 at 01:49:28PM -0500, Karen Lewellen wrote:
Again, you are the voice of practical reason. granted, I prefer installing the best Debian first then layering in the extras. Some posts here in other therads though may suggest issues with Jessie. I want this machine to automatically boot to the console, since i will not be using it directly. If Jessie now makes this a challenge, what is the best and least difficult solution?
If you unselect 'desktop' during the install, then there is no graphical desktop, and it will boot text mode only. Jessie is no different that way than any other debian release ever was. -- Len Sorensen
On Tue, Dec 15, 2015 at 01:11:00AM -0500, Karen Lewellen wrote:
Hello Blaise, Thanks so very much in advance for the wisdom I feel sure you can provide. I honestly admit to being a touch of a singer snob who imagines one can only perform live with well other live people smiles. So when Bob wrote of your creating, I confess I got rather curious as well. As for command line music making tools, there are actually rather a few I am learning. I am compiling a list with links, since I do not know yet your distribution of preference, or exactly how you work. Articulating my desires musically may make more sense than the ssh telnet aspect truth be told. In all honesty however, I cannot say with hands on firmness that I can drive the car where I wish to go. I was more of a singer / arranger than a songwriter until the past few years. Now I have all this music I desire moving from the studio in my head and heart onto sheet music, into performing form, as I am sure you can understand. Since I am writing full arrangements, all the parts with my lyrics, I want to play all of the parts, piano, strings, guitar etc., that are in my head and then get the completed work into sheet certainly both audio and sheet possibly. How I imagine doing this, is with a quality piano / keyboard that also has several additional instrument options to simulate sound wise for composition only for now at least, the other instrument's for which I am writing. <Still awake?> Now, this is where my visual memory, blended with my lack of first hand Linux experience starts to get a bit...well hopeful. I imagine connecting said piano / keyboard to the m-audio audiophile 2496 sound card I have in mind, using any one of the dozen or so tools for the command line I am finding are included in Debian, writing each part one at a time, putting the piece together, and transferring the completed work to a composing package, you referenced Lillypoind, which is terrific, but there are a couple more. I am hunting the instrument along with the talent for the Linux side of my desire. The older the better in a way, I tend to be a buttons kind of girl, not a touch screen one. Granted I know some keyboards have multi-track sequencers built in. Letting me <I think? compose entirely on said keyboard and transfer the finished product...strong emphasis on the I think. There may be another way that I have not considered, I mean besides the traditional way of doing the recording, I am a radio producer too, so have pro tools, a mac a control surface etc. etc. Still I would rather use Linux because I know the composition programs exist, that i may be able to script in Linux some of what I need...not me, but tap into some sources for this. There is no real program for composition mac wise, certainly not going back to the edition I am using to run my pro tools setup. The ssh-telnet aspect simply lets me treat the Linux box like a server, running the commands from my main computer where I am already comfortable, both with my speech synthesizer, and in a small way with the command line based on my daily use of a comparative Linux shell. Oh that reminds me, I spoke of issues with speech in more current Linux Kernels. This is because the ability to use a hardware source for speech no longer exists in the new ones, like in Jessie. Only software speech which for me is out of the question. One can compile the new distribution with the older Kennel, but that. is. way!!! beyond me laughs. Is all this making more sense? Will have those programs for you tomorrow. Thanks for joining the adventure! I likewise thank you Bob for inviting Blaise to the party.
Which hardware are you using for speech that works with jessie but not newer? As in, what is the name of it. -- Len Sorensen
On Tue, Dec 15, 2015 at 11:50 AM, Lennart Sorensen < lsorense@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> wrote:
Which hardware are you using for speech that works with jessie but not newer? As in, what is the name of it.
(Squeeze?) That's the question. If this hardware can be controlled in real-time (ish) and has an analog output to a real-time recorder, that might serve. Forward-porting linux drivers for anything newer than ISA-bus should not be prohibitively difficult... Mike
Hi again, I use a device called a reading edge for speech on my main computer. No speech program in Linux supports the device. Additionally, I have no need to run speech from the Linux box, since I can control it from the machine running the program, business vision, which does support my speech synthesizer. I really prefer ssh TELNETTing into this Linux box. will make it possible as well for me to run scripts loading what I require, and not needing speech at all. Noble ambition though! Kare On Tue, 15 Dec 2015, Mike wrote:
On Tue, Dec 15, 2015 at 11:50 AM, Lennart Sorensen < lsorense@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> wrote:
Which hardware are you using for speech that works with jessie but not newer? As in, what is the name of it.
(Squeeze?) That's the question. If this hardware can be controlled in real-time (ish) and has an analog output to a real-time recorder, that might serve. Forward-porting linux drivers for anything newer than ISA-bus should not be prohibitively difficult...
Mike
On Tue, Dec 15, 2015 at 12:16:01PM -0500, Karen Lewellen wrote:
Hi again, I use a device called a reading edge for speech on my main computer. No speech program in Linux supports the device. Additionally, I have no need to run speech from the Linux box, since I can control it from the machine running the program, business vision, which does support my speech synthesizer. I really prefer ssh TELNETTing into this Linux box. will make it possible as well for me to run scripts loading what I require, and not needing speech at all. Noble ambition though!
Well if you just ssh then I can't see why you would stick to squeeze rather than something still supported. -- Len Sorensen
Hi, It is my understanding that no hardware speech sources work at all post wheezy, not that it matters for me. I will not be running speech directly from this Linux box. In fact I do not believe my synthesizer is supported even if I wished to do this, which again I do not. Kare On Tue, 15 Dec 2015, Lennart Sorensen wrote:
On Tue, Dec 15, 2015 at 01:11:00AM -0500, Karen Lewellen wrote:
Hello Blaise, Thanks so very much in advance for the wisdom I feel sure you can provide. I honestly admit to being a touch of a singer snob who imagines one can only perform live with well other live people smiles. So when Bob wrote of your creating, I confess I got rather curious as well. As for command line music making tools, there are actually rather a few I am learning. I am compiling a list with links, since I do not know yet your distribution of preference, or exactly how you work. Articulating my desires musically may make more sense than the ssh telnet aspect truth be told. In all honesty however, I cannot say with hands on firmness that I can drive the car where I wish to go. I was more of a singer / arranger than a songwriter until the past few years. Now I have all this music I desire moving from the studio in my head and heart onto sheet music, into performing form, as I am sure you can understand. Since I am writing full arrangements, all the parts with my lyrics, I want to play all of the parts, piano, strings, guitar etc., that are in my head and then get the completed work into sheet certainly both audio and sheet possibly. How I imagine doing this, is with a quality piano / keyboard that also has several additional instrument options to simulate sound wise for composition only for now at least, the other instrument's for which I am writing. <Still awake?> Now, this is where my visual memory, blended with my lack of first hand Linux experience starts to get a bit...well hopeful. I imagine connecting said piano / keyboard to the m-audio audiophile 2496 sound card I have in mind, using any one of the dozen or so tools for the command line I am finding are included in Debian, writing each part one at a time, putting the piece together, and transferring the completed work to a composing package, you referenced Lillypoind, which is terrific, but there are a couple more. I am hunting the instrument along with the talent for the Linux side of my desire. The older the better in a way, I tend to be a buttons kind of girl, not a touch screen one. Granted I know some keyboards have multi-track sequencers built in. Letting me <I think? compose entirely on said keyboard and transfer the finished product...strong emphasis on the I think. There may be another way that I have not considered, I mean besides the traditional way of doing the recording, I am a radio producer too, so have pro tools, a mac a control surface etc. etc. Still I would rather use Linux because I know the composition programs exist, that i may be able to script in Linux some of what I need...not me, but tap into some sources for this. There is no real program for composition mac wise, certainly not going back to the edition I am using to run my pro tools setup. The ssh-telnet aspect simply lets me treat the Linux box like a server, running the commands from my main computer where I am already comfortable, both with my speech synthesizer, and in a small way with the command line based on my daily use of a comparative Linux shell. Oh that reminds me, I spoke of issues with speech in more current Linux Kernels. This is because the ability to use a hardware source for speech no longer exists in the new ones, like in Jessie. Only software speech which for me is out of the question. One can compile the new distribution with the older Kennel, but that. is. way!!! beyond me laughs. Is all this making more sense? Will have those programs for you tomorrow. Thanks for joining the adventure! I likewise thank you Bob for inviting Blaise to the party.
Which hardware are you using for speech that works with jessie but not newer? As in, what is the name of it.
-- Len Sorensen --- Talk Mailing List talk@gtalug.org http://gtalug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
On 15/12/15 12:04 PM, Karen Lewellen wrote:
It is my understanding that no hardware speech sources work at all post wheezy, not that it matters for me. I will not be running speech directly from this Linux box. In fact I do not believe my synthesizer is supported even if I wished to do this, which again I do not.
Oh, okay. So, why Squeeze then? I think I misread your earlier post. The best way I've found to run pro audio software under Debian (or even Ubuntu) is to add the KXStudio repositories, which provides the latest, greatest pro audio free software for GNU/Linux, as well as some packages that aren't available in the Debian repositories. http://kxstudio.linuxaudio.org/Repositories However, these repositories require Debian Jessie+ or Ubuntu 14.04+. Regarding a low latency kernel in Debian, I've been using Liquorix: http://liquorix.net/ It's not clear if that will work easily on older distributions, but might be an option if you want to stick with Squeeze for other reasons than the Squeeze kernel.
Hi there, playing catch up with these. You asked... On Tue, 15 Dec 2015, Blaise Alleyne wrote:
On 15/12/15 12:04 PM, Karen Lewellen wrote:
Oh, okay. So, why Squeeze then?
Well, prior to joining here and starting this exchange, I had several reasons, some of which remain. for one very important reason, I have a full set of Squeeze DVD images sitting in this space. I think I said I am on the Debian discussion list. A..couple of years ago or so, one of their members who claimed to understand Linux sent me a hard drive containing what was supposed to be enough Debian with which to start. I had a computer built for the drive, one of my engineer friends maintains my primary computers, even though Linux is not his thing. When we put the drive in, Debian recognize everything, but there is no way to access the internet. i later ran tests with the help of CNIB. Since I realize I am going to need knowledgeable greater sighted and in person help, and since asking for long distance help seems counter productive, I did not want to start from scratch unless absolutely needful. I have been told the lack of internet might be repaired, the programs i require for composition already here etc, and i want to be sure I can provide enough things to make any other help I require easy for someone...it is the least I can do. Then there is the question of if I want to totally forget ever using the box directly. My main synthesizer will not work to be sure. however there are other external hardware ones that do, they run with USB which is one of two reasons i do not desire a USB based keyboard. Still, it seems speech will be an issue, directly, at least outside of squeeze.
From what you provided in other posts though Latency is a far far greater issue. Music comes first for this machine. If a low latency kernel is required, then I must plan for ssh telnet to have screen reader access. If I cannot find a pro audio package plus a latency solution for an earlier kernel, then again speech must be via ssh TELNET and a later edition of Linux will be used. That will mean for me finding help on the installation however. Make more sense? Harmoniously, Kare
On Tue, 15 Dec 2015, Blaise Alleyne wrote:
On 15/12/15 12:04 PM, Karen Lewellen wrote:
Oh, okay. So, why Squeeze then?
Well, prior to joining here and starting this exchange, I had several reasons, some of which remain. for one very important reason, I have a full set of Squeeze DVD images sitting in this space. [...]
Personally, I wouldn't be attached to old Squeeze DVDs -- all the software on them will need to be upgraded when you run the first update anyways, and it's fairly easily to download an image (.iso) and create a startup disk with a USB flash drive these days. (I haven't burned to DVD for 5 or 6 years, USB flash drives are so much easier.)
On 15/12/15 01:11 AM, Karen Lewellen wrote:
I was more of a singer / arranger than a songwriter until the past few years. Now I have all this music I desire moving from the studio in my head and heart onto sheet music, into performing form, as I am sure you can understand. Since I am writing full arrangements, all the parts with my lyrics, I want to play all of the parts, piano, strings, guitar etc., that are in my head and then get the completed work into sheet certainly both audio and sheet possibly.
Are you looking to create audio recordings and sheet music? Or just sheet music? That is, are you looking to play the parts just to capture the notes for sheet music? Or to play the parts because you're interested in creating audio recordings in addition to the sheet music? Also, are you looking to play all of the parts for the different instruments on your keyboard, or on different instruments?
How I imagine doing this, is with a quality piano / keyboard that also has several additional instrument options to simulate sound wise for composition only for now at least, the other instrument's for which I am writing.
I spent a lot of time looking into keyboard last year. That's one of the reasons I dove deeper into GNU/Linux audio. I decided to go with a MIDI keyboard, and software-based tools, for more flexibility and freedom to re-purpose the keyboard in different ways. Do you have a keyboard already, or are you looking for one still? I imagine you want a MIDI keyboard, and the right software synths or software samplers to voice different instruments.
I imagine connecting said piano / keyboard to the m-audio audiophile 2496 sound card I have in mind
I decided to get a USB MIDI keyboard myself. As long as it's USB class compliant, it'll work in GNU/Linux. Then, the sound card is still useful for playback (or recording audio), but you don't actually need a traditional MIDI input port from the soundcard if you have a USB MIDI keyboard. (There are plenty of USB MIDI keyboards without touchscreens.) Also, are you hoping to record audio from the Audiophile 2496? It doesn't look like it has the quarter inch or XLR inputs you'd need for that.
There may be another way that I have not considered, I mean besides the traditional way of doing the recording...
You could sequence the parts in MIDI (or abc notation or something), instead of performing them? That might be better for certain instruments too. For example, if you're playing a piano part on a MIDI keyboard, that could work to capture MIDI notes which you could then edit and polish for sheet music. But if you're trying to capture a guitar part with a MIDI keyboard, I imagine it'd be better to enter the notes manually in a MIDI sequencer (or abc notation or something that can be converted to MIDI), as opposed to trying to get the feel of a guitar by playing a keyboard.
On 11/12/15 05:53 PM, Bob Jonkman wrote:
At Software Freedom Day we had a great presentation on using Free Software for Musical Performance by Blaise Alleyne. [...]
I wonder what it would take to convince Blaise to haul his studio equipment up to the room at Ryerson to do his presentation for GTALUG... :)
I'd be happy to do a talk / demo / performance for GTALUG if folks are interested. I gave the talk / demo / performance at FSOSS in October too, hoping to do it elsewhere in the future as well.
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 +1 I'd come back to Toronto for that! (but February or later) - --Bob. On 16/12/15 11:37 AM, Blaise Alleyne wrote:
On 11/12/15 05:53 PM, Bob Jonkman wrote:
At Software Freedom Day we had a great presentation on using Free Software for Musical Performance by Blaise Alleyne. [...]
I wonder what it would take to convince Blaise to haul his studio equipment up to the room at Ryerson to do his presentation for GTALUG... :)
I'd be happy to do a talk / demo / performance for GTALUG if folks are interested. I gave the talk / demo / performance at FSOSS in October too, hoping to do it elsewhere in the future as well. --- Talk Mailing List talk@gtalug.org http://gtalug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
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This just in... https://opensource.com/life/15/12/open-source-projects-musicians Sorry, couldn't help it, saw this right after Karen's post. I don't know if there is anything of value here as I'm not a musician, but the header seems right. Although a lot of what's there seems to be graphically based. But knowledge is knowledge. John. On 12/10/2015 07:17 PM, Karen Lewellen wrote:
greetings everyone, My name is Karen. I have only recently found this LUG, and joined the talk list. I am a professional singer/ songwriter and media producer with a unique Linux goal. I wish to make use of the varied console or command line based tools in Linux for my composition work, and if possible for accessing media materials too. I use adaptive technology, which is part of why my desire is to ssh telnet into my Linux box rather than work with it directly. I tend to prefer more traditional tools. for example one sound card in this box will be an m-audio audiofile 2496 production card to which I will be attaching my music keyboard. In any case while I have some of the tools I require, and firm knowledge that my goals are possible. I have not, at least not until now, found a Linux users group in Toronto where I can get the extra wisdom required. I am very used to Linux and UNIX based shell structures. I am using one at this moment based in freedsb, to draft my email, and use another based in Ubuntu for my nonprofit media newsroom's hosting account. Such is also part of why I want to start with a comparative way to use my Linux box. I would rather begin with a foundation where I can make use of and learn more right away, than fail to use the Linux box well at all. Let me be sure my post is suitable before both asking and answering questions. Thanks in advance, Karen
--- Talk Mailing List talk@gtalug.org http://gtalug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
participants (12)
-
Blaise Alleyne -
Bob Jonkman -
Christopher Browne -
John Moniz -
Karen Lewellen -
Lennart Sorensen -
Loui Chang -
Mike -
o1bigtenor -
Paul King -
phiscock＠ee.ryerson.ca -
ted leslie