December 2003 - Legacy - lists.gtalug.org

FYI on updated RPMs for redhat 7.3 (see note
by henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg＠public.gmane.org 24 Dec '03

24 Dec '03

> ...and statistics show that many other companies/people out > there still use 7.3 (especially on the server platform) for its > stability and quality. Never mind 7.3, there are still a lot of people using 7.2 on servers. (7.3 made an unusually large number of changes for a .3 release, and not everyone liked it.) Henry Spencer henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml

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In the Dark with Midnight Commander
by plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg＠public.gmane.org 24 Dec '03

24 Dec '03

On Wed, 24 Dec 2003, Geoffrey Hunter wrote: > Echoing Peter Peres' concern about the inadequacy of Linux documentation: > I switched to Linux in the summer of 2002 to regain control of how I compute; > as a former DOS user I used to use Norton Commander as my window into my > computer: it displayed the contents of two directories side by side, and the > bottom box had a command-line prompt - commands typed there automatically > looked for files in the selected left or right directory. > With Norton I was in command: I could easily display any directory, > and once selected easily (one-keystroke commands) select files and then copy, > move, edit, and process them and see what you were doing the whole time - > so I was induced to switch to Linux because it had "midnight commander" > supposedly modeled after Norton Commander. > Midnight commander (and linux generally) has been a big disappointment: > I have yet to find any documentation (man pages or anything else), and > unlike Norton Commander the command-line (bottom) box doesn't automatically > look for files in the selected directory - I have to issue a cd command. > Each box has round and square buttons at the bottom (turn green when clicked) > but what they do/mean remains a mystery. Well, this post was probably answered already, but I'll do it anyway: mc has a manual page, I just double checked it. It is long. So is the Norton Commander documentation afair. I do not entirely understand what function does not work in your mc. mc is not a Norton Commander clone, it is a complete rewrite, and some things are different. I did not have any system shock when switching to MC from NC, the slash/backslash thing got me much harder than that. I just wrote up a cheat sheet and used it for a week, then I no longer needed it. As to documentation, the Linux user documents supplied with every installation (I mean the Linux User Guide) should get you started, and there are howtos for everything. The problem is you have to read them. If program P resembles some old favorite it does not mean that it works like it. It might ressemble it. If you read the docs you might find out ... The normal starting point is "Linux Installation and Getting Started" (one of the authors of this document is on this list), followed by faqs and howtos. There is no 'ONE' way to do things, each user has his or her own. Purchasing a book about basic Unix (Like 'Unix Primer' by Michael Joy I think - I had this book but I can't find it now) experienced as a user might be helpful if you intend to leave the well-oiled path of the gui. Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml

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In the Dark with Midnight Commander
by tim-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ＠public.gmane.org 24 Dec '03

24 Dec '03

Justin Zygmont <jzygmont-tEQKYFGiemxAYG7eUwYNkWD2FQJk+8+b at public.gmane.org> writes: > i'm suprised that you are using an xterm to run mc in, myself being a dos > user, I use the virtual consoles. I use mc everyday, and i'd be at a > major loss without it. nc was a mystery to me when i first got it, at > least we have searchable documentation these days on the internet. I'm > suprised more people don't use mc, it was a major hit when it came out for > dos, and the linux one is free. A quick google search will turn up lots > of info on it. nc was popular with DOS users because the DOS shell was pathetic and DOS offered so few utilities. mc is probably a nice interface for DOS users familiar with nc but doesn't offer much to anyone already comfortable with Linux/UNIX shells. Users with a Windows background, not (yet) comfortable with the Linux/UNIX command line, are probably most comfortable with graphical tools like Konqueror's file manager. -- tim writer <tim-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org> starnix inc. 905.771.0017 ext. 225 thornhill, ontario, canada http://www.starnix.com professional linux services & products -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml

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FYI on updated RPMs for redhat 7.3 (see note
by lloyd-fEEwcc3XMu8jODpR/OX0VQ＠public.gmane.org 24 Dec '03

24 Dec '03

-----Forwarded Message----- From: Chip Cuccio <chipster-hjhRz81uzAkdnm+yROfE0A at public.gmane.org> To: norlug-rpms-hjhRz81uzAkdnm+yROfE0A at public.gmane.org Subject: [NORLUG-RPMS] Updates for 12-24-2003 (and a note to all) Date: Wed, 24 Dec 2003 11:32:54 -0600 <<snip>> NOTE: ----- I also maintain a large repository of Red Hat 7.3 RPMs, mainly because I manage quite a few 7.3 servers at work and my home "data center" - and statistics show that many other companies/people out there still use 7.3 (especially on the server platform) for its stability and quality. That being said, I have recently added a huge number of new custom RPMs to my Red Hat 7.3 repository. Included are updated versions of Perl, Python, Apache (both 1.3 and 2.0!), PHP, and many others. If you still run/own/manage/deploy Red Hat 7.3 machines, you should really check out my repository; <http://norlug.org/~chipster/rpm_index.pxml?cat=1> Cheers... _______________________________________________ NORLUG-RPMS mailing list Get your custom Mandrake RPMs: http://norlug.org/~chipster/?rpms RPM Mailing list: http://norlug.org/mailman/listinfo/norlug-rpms -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml

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In the Dark with Midnight Commander
by jzygmont-tEQKYFGiemxAYG7eUwYNkWD2FQJk+8+b＠public.gmane.org 24 Dec '03

24 Dec '03

i'm suprised that you are using an xterm to run mc in, myself being a dos user, I use the virtual consoles. I use mc everyday, and i'd be at a major loss without it. nc was a mystery to me when i first got it, at least we have searchable documentation these days on the internet. I'm suprised more people don't use mc, it was a major hit when it came out for dos, and the linux one is free. A quick google search will turn up lots of info on it. On Wed, 24 Dec 2003, Geoffrey Hunter wrote: > Echoing Peter Peres' concern about the inadequacy of Linux documentation: > I switched to Linux in the summer of 2002 to regain control of how I compute; > as a former DOS user I used to use Norton Commander as my window into my > computer: it displayed the contents of two directories side by side, and the > bottom box had a command-line prompt - commands typed there automatically > looked for files in the selected left or right directory. > With Norton I was in command: I could easily display any directory, > and once selected easily (one-keystroke commands) select files and then copy, > move, edit, and process them and see what you were doing the whole time - > so I was induced to switch to Linux because it had "midnight commander" > supposedly modeled after Norton Commander. > Midnight commander (and linux generally) has been a big disappointment: > I have yet to find any documentation (man pages or anything else), and > unlike Norton Commander the command-line (bottom) box doesn't automatically > look for files in the selected directory - I have to issue a cd command. > Each box has round and square buttons at the bottom (turn green when clicked) > but what they do/mean remains a mystery. > > Geoffrey Hunter > York University, 4700 Keele Street > Toronto, Ontario, Canada M3J1P3 > email: GHunter-4mebg6r7xUY at public.gmane.org > _______________________________________________ > Quoting "Peter L. Peres" <plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org>: > > > > > I tried to read the man mmap(2) pages, but as always, these pages leave me > > in > > > the dark. It would be so nice, if there would be a typical usage example > > > included ( in all man pages!). > > > These pages are designed for people who already know all the In's and > > outs, > > > but are rather useless to anyone not yet familiar with their content. > > > Am I alone in this assessment? > > > > Ah, you came to my old conclusion that u*ix consists of four-letter > > commands with 100-page apologies ;-) > > > > Yes, you are right, up to a point. The manpages do not intend to tech you > > anything, they remind the programmer of all the details. For learning, use > > a book about programming or tutorials. > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml

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In the Dark with Midnight Commander
by paulmora-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA＠public.gmane.org 24 Dec '03

24 Dec '03

On Wed, 2003-12-24 at 07:11, Geoffrey Hunter wrote: > Midnight commander (and linux generally) has been a big disappointment: > I have yet to find any documentation (man pages or anything else), and > unlike Norton Commander the command-line (bottom) box doesn't automatically > look for files in the selected directory - I have to issue a cd command. > Each box has round and square buttons at the bottom (turn green when clicked) > but what they do/mean remains a mystery. There is lots of documentation, you just have to know where to look. Midnight Commander has some built-in help, accessible by typing F1. If that's not enough, there is a FAQ installed to answer common questions (I'm assuming a few things here... on my Red Hat Linux 9 system, when I installed the "mc" RPM, it came with a FAQ file located in /usr/share/doc/mc-<version>/FAQ. If you use a different distro, they may or may not include it, but you can probably find it at www.tldp.org) As for not looking in the selected directory, that may have to do with the $PATH variable. The shell normally only looks for executable files in the $PATH. If you wish to look in your current directory as well, append a ":." on the end of the $PATH variable contents. Don't dismiss Linux too quickly. Keep in mind that it is a different operating system. It takes a bit of tinkering to learn all the nuances, but once you do, you will be surprised at it's power, stability, and quality. pm -- Paul Mora <paulmora-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org> -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml

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In the Dark with Midnight Commander
by mervc-MwcKTmeKVNQ＠public.gmane.org 24 Dec '03

24 Dec '03

On December 24, 2003 07:11 am, Geoffrey Hunter wrote: box > doesn't automatically look for files in the selected directory - I have > to issue a cd command. Each box has round and square buttons at the > bottom (turn green when clicked) but what they do/mean remains a mystery. > Are you using the 'term window' version or the Gnome version? I find the version I use in a term window is very Norton 'look alike'. Merry, merry -- Merv Curley Scarborough, Ont Libranet Linux 2.8 KDE 3.1.4 KMail 1.5.4 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml

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In the Dark with Midnight Commander
by forolinux-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w＠public.gmane.org 24 Dec '03

24 Dec '03

--- Geoffrey Hunter <GHunter-kgJIzn72htc at public.gmane.org> wrote: > Echoing Peter Peres' concern about the inadequacy of > Linux documentation: > I switched to Linux in the summer of 2002 to regain > control of how I compute; > as a former DOS user I used to use Norton Commander > as my window into my > computer: it displayed the contents of two > directories side by side, and the > bottom box had a command-line prompt - commands > typed there automatically > looked for files in the selected left or right > directory. > With Norton I was in command: I could easily > display any directory, > and once selected easily (one-keystroke commands) > select files and then copy, > move, edit, and process them and see what you were > doing the whole time - > so I was induced to switch to Linux because it had > "midnight commander" > supposedly modeled after Norton Commander. > Midnight commander (and linux generally) has > been a big disappointment: > I have yet to find any documentation (man pages or > anything else), and > unlike Norton Commander the command-line (bottom) > box doesn't automatically > look for files in the selected directory - I have to > issue a cd command. > Each box has round and square buttons at the bottom > (turn green when clicked) > but what they do/mean remains a mystery. Some things I've found googling: http://home.worldonline.co.za/~jctrembath/mctutorial.html http://www.suse.de/en/private/support/online_help/howto/mc/ http://www.linuxgazette.com/issue23/wkndmech_dec97/mc_article.html and the man mc http://man.he.net/?topic=mc&section=all I should read some of them too... __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml

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C programming question
by tim-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ＠public.gmane.org 24 Dec '03

24 Dec '03

John Wildberger <wildberger-iRg7kjdsKiH3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org> writes: > On December 24, 2003 03:47 am, Peter L. Peres wrote: > > > Yes, you are right, up to a point. The manpages do not intend to tech you > > anything, they remind the programmer of all the details. For learning, use > > a book about programming or tutorials. > > The man mmap consists of 192 lines. > Your sample code has 8 lines. It makes all the difference between useful and > useless. Why cannot the good people who write these man pages not include > such gems? Probably because Linux is a collaborative effort and most programmers (the people who best understand the functions needing documentation) usually prefer to program than write documentation. FWIW, the man pages of commercial versions of UNIX (such as Solaris), are often more complete than the corresponding Linux documentation. I find http://docs.sun.com useful in this regard. IIRC, The Open Group http://www.opengroup.org also has manual pages on-line. -- tim writer <tim-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org> starnix inc. 905.771.0017 ext. 225 thornhill, ontario, canada http://www.starnix.com professional linux services & products -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml

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C programming question
by tim-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ＠public.gmane.org 24 Dec '03

24 Dec '03

John Wildberger <wildberger-iRg7kjdsKiH3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org> writes: > On December 23, 2003 06:45 pm, Matthew Rice wrote: > > > And this is better than: > > > > od -j 68 -N 2 -t x2 /dev/mem > > > > because??? ;) > > You don't get an argument from me on this. :-) > I actually used this to verify my program. It is short, but not as much > educational as writing a C- program. > > > > > short x; > > > ssize_t size = read( fd, &x, 4 ); > > > > Shorts aren't 4 bytes. Perhaps you should change the '4' to: > > > > sizeof(short) > > or sizeof(x) > > It does not chane the result. It may not change the result with your specific example but the code still contains a bug. Think about what would happen if you wanted to use your program to read the last two bytes of /dev/mem. > I used the 'short' to get away from a printout with four bytes (high order > first, followed by low order) which was confusing and not what was asked. Matt was not objecting to your use of a short, he was objecting to you reading 4 bytes into a two byte quantity. In your example, this could overwrite valuable data on the stack (like the return address or other local variables) causing your program to crash, report incorrect results, or behave erratically. This is, of course, system and compiler dependent. In this case, you got away with it probably because gcc added two bytes of padding following the short. A better way to write this is to use C99's exact size types (from <inttypes.h>): uint16_t x; ssize_t size = read(fd, &x, sizeof(x)); And then you can print it with: printf("%" PRIx16 "\n", x); -- tim writer <tim-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org> starnix inc. 905.771.0017 ext. 225 thornhill, ontario, canada http://www.starnix.com professional linux services & products -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml

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