Hi folks, What I am seeking is an open source program that tests aspects of say your motherboard. that the serial ports or parallel ports work, that the USB ports are sound etc. I am asking because due to an as of yet not fixed hydro problem in my new apartment, the occasional power surges, even with machines attached to protectors, are causing slight damage to hardware. Need to know how much as I only have so many computers I can use. Any program ideas? Will be sharing suggestions with someone hopefully helping me troubleshoot. Thanks, Karen
This is a hard question. Most digital systems components work or don't work. It gets really hard when they kind of work. Let me be a little more explicit about that, with an example. A computer can mostly work but have a failing serial port. Then the component to look at is the serial port, not the whole computer. The serial port will usually work or not work. Then again, when one says that a serial port isn't completely working, one has to realize that it is made up of components. For example: - the software using the port - the OS - the serial cable - the device on the other end Each of these may be the failure. It gets more difficult if more than one is the problem. For complete testing I/O (like a serial port), you usually need some kind of hardware test jig to observe what's leaving your system and to generate inputs. Usually a serial port has gross misbehaviour. Hooking it up to anything just doesn't work. Or either the input or the output just doesn't work. Often the problem turns out to be something simple like cables. OK, I admit, serial cables aren't actually simple: too many configurations. Sometimes the problem is just dirty contacts. Plugging and unplugging a few times might fix this. Long ago, I had to replace 1488 or 1489 levl-shifting / buffering chips for serial ports. They could be burnt out by static, I think. Those aren't used any longer so I don't know what you do these days. In the past, when I've tried to help you, I've failed. I think that the problem is that we have different models of how things work. Clearly your model is correct for you. It means that my attempts of help haven't been useful to you and have just wasted time. | From: Karen Lewellen via talk <talk@gtalug.org> | | What I am seeking is an open source program that tests aspects of say your | motherboard. that the serial ports or parallel ports work, that the USB ports | are sound etc. | I am asking because due to an as of yet not fixed hydro problem in my new | apartment, the occasional power surges, even with machines attached to | protectors, are causing slight damage to hardware. | Need to know how much as I only have so many computers I can use. | Any program ideas? | Will be sharing suggestions with someone hopefully helping me troubleshoot.
On 2023-07-12 11:17, D. Hugh Redelmeier via talk wrote:
Let me be a little more explicit about that, with an example. A computer can mostly work but have a failing serial port. Then the component to look at is the serial port, not the whole computer. The serial port will usually work or not work.
The other part of this is serial & parallel ports aren't often used these days, having been supplanted by USB. Why bother testing something that's not likely to be used?
because my reading edge connects via serial port on the computer, to a parallel port on the back of the reading edge. was amazed that I found a new cable in fact, for like $14 no less. On Wed, 12 Jul 2023, James Knott via talk wrote:
On 2023-07-12 11:17, D. Hugh Redelmeier via talk wrote:
Let me be a little more explicit about that, with an example. A computer can mostly work but have a failing serial port. Then the component to look at is the serial port, not the whole computer. The serial port will usually work or not work.
The other part of this is serial & parallel ports aren't often used these days, having been supplanted by USB. Why bother testing something that's not likely to be used?
--- Post to this mailing list talk@gtalug.org Unsubscribe from this mailing list https://gtalug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
On Wed, 12 Jul 2023 at 12:33, Karen Lewellen via talk <talk@gtalug.org> wrote:
because my reading edge connects via serial port on the computer, to a parallel port on the back of the reading edge.
No, it doesn't. You can't directly connect a serial port to a parallel port. What you probably have is a 9 pin serial cable (IBM PC pinout) to a 25 pin serial port (EIA/RS 232 standard pinout). (Just in case you have to describe it in the future.)
was amazed that I found a new cable in fact, for like $14 no less.
They were quite common, because of the two connector/pinout standards, so they're probably still readily available. I have a number of them lying around. -- Scott
Clearly that I referenced the cable in the next sentence indicates I understand the machine requires one. On Wed, 12 Jul 2023, Scott Allen wrote:
On Wed, 12 Jul 2023 at 12:33, Karen Lewellen via talk <talk@gtalug.org> wrote:
because my reading edge connects via serial port on the computer, to a parallel port on the back of the reading edge.
No, it doesn't. You can't directly connect a serial port to a parallel port. What you probably have is a 9 pin serial cable (IBM PC pinout) to a 25 pin serial port (EIA/RS 232 standard pinout). (Just in case you have to describe it in the future.)
was amazed that I found a new cable in fact, for like $14 no less.
They were quite common, because of the two connector/pinout standards, so they're probably still readily available. I have a number of them lying around.
-- Scott
On Wed, 12 Jul 2023 at 13:13, Karen Lewellen <klewellen@shellworld.net> wrote:
Clearly that I referenced the cable in the next sentence indicates I understand the machine requires one.
Yes, It requires a 9 pin to 25 pin serial port connector cable. Not a serial port to parallel port cable that you referenced. A serial to parallel cable would be somewhat custom and likely expensive, since it would have to contain active electronics to convert serial protocol to parallel protocol. -- Scott
...and of course that the words serial to parallel appear in the product description , for smart marketing is unimportant. Is there a reason why you wish to play dueling dictionaries? Someone previously started an entire thread on the reading edge, so some on the list have seen the unit in question. On Wed, 12 Jul 2023, Scott Allen wrote:
On Wed, 12 Jul 2023 at 13:13, Karen Lewellen <klewellen@shellworld.net> wrote:
Clearly that I referenced the cable in the next sentence indicates I understand the machine requires one.
Yes, It requires a 9 pin to 25 pin serial port connector cable. Not a serial port to parallel port cable that you referenced. A serial to parallel cable would be somewhat custom and likely expensive, since it would have to contain active electronics to convert serial protocol to parallel protocol.
-- Scott
On Wed, 12 Jul 2023 at 15:09, Karen Lewellen <klewellen@shellworld.net> wrote:
...and of course that the words serial to parallel appear in the product description , for smart marketing is unimportant.
The product description of what? The cable you bought or the reader? I found a photo of the back of a Kurzweil "The Reading Edge" reader online. Next to the 25 pin DB-25 female connector is printed the words "SERIAL PORT".
Is there a reason why you wish to play dueling dictionaries?
I was merely trying to do you a courtesy by letting you know what the cable correctly is, in case you need to obtain another one in the future and have to describe what it is to someone. However, If what I've said has offended you in some way, I'll bow out, as I've done in other discussions with you on this mailing list. -- Scott
The product description, for the cable, I just aquired, and can order again..never read the back of my reading edge, in fact this is the first time I needed to replace this cable in easily 30 years. Makes me glad I could find the cable, described as I required it. On Wed, 12 Jul 2023, Scott Allen wrote:
On Wed, 12 Jul 2023 at 15:09, Karen Lewellen <klewellen@shellworld.net> wrote:
...and of course that the words serial to parallel appear in the product description , for smart marketing is unimportant.
The product description of what? The cable you bought or the reader?
I found a photo of the back of a Kurzweil "The Reading Edge" reader online. Next to the 25 pin DB-25 female connector is printed the words "SERIAL PORT".
Is there a reason why you wish to play dueling dictionaries?
I was merely trying to do you a courtesy by letting you know what the cable correctly is, in case you need to obtain another one in the future and have to describe what it is to someone.
However, If what I've said has offended you in some way, I'll bow out, as I've done in other discussions with you on this mailing list.
-- Scott
There is a reason for being pedantic. But in this case, the issue has no consequences. We are being given an incomplete view of the problem. That's natural and to be expected. But when an inconsistency comes up, it casts doubt on the description and we want to get rid of the doubt. Doubt is where bugs often lie. Good debugging requires systematically collapsing doubt. In this case, you didn't seem to know the meaning of "parallel" and "serial". I'm not convinced that you do now. Serial ports on a computer carry EAE RS232 signals <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RS-232> Parallel ports on a computer carry a very different set of signals, originally intended for printers <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parallel_port> The relevant standard is IEEE 1284. You really don't want to mix these two up. Even if computer manufacturers sometimes used the same connectors for each signal (lunatics). If you connect a serial and parallel port together directly, one or both might burn out. My guess is that they won't, but I don't know. Calling the 25-pin connector on your reader "parallel" is wrong and could lead to disastrous mistakes.
From what you have said, there is currently no problem caused by this confusion. I cannot imagine that any of you concerns arose from this confusion.
| From: Karen Lewellen via talk <talk@gtalug.org> | | ...and of course that the words serial to parallel appear in the product | description , for smart marketing is unimportant. | Is there a reason why you wish to play dueling dictionaries? | Someone previously started an entire thread on the reading edge, so some on | the list have seen the unit in question.
On 2023-07-12 13:19, Scott Allen via talk wrote:
Yes, It requires a 9 pin to 25 pin serial port connector cable. Not a serial port to parallel port cable that you referenced. A serial to parallel cable would be somewhat custom and likely expensive, since it would have to contain active electronics to convert serial protocol to parallel protocol.
Also, the old style 25 pin serial cable and the printer cable have opposite connector genders. The serial cable has a female connector and the printer cable has a male connector.
no one spoke of printer cables. Serial connectors are 9 pin, parallel cables are 25 pin. while old style printer cables use 25 pin as well, there is no, or not to my personal experience a 9 pin connector at all for those printer cables. as a side note allot of external speech synthesizer hardware used 25 pin connectors. and lpt port allocations as well. On Wed, 12 Jul 2023, James Knott via talk wrote:
On 2023-07-12 13:19, Scott Allen via talk wrote:
Yes, It requires a 9 pin to 25 pin serial port connector cable. Not a serial port to parallel port cable that you referenced. A serial to parallel cable would be somewhat custom and likely expensive, since it would have to contain active electronics to convert serial protocol to parallel protocol.
Also, the old style 25 pin serial cable and the printer cable have opposite connector genders. The serial cable has a female connector and the printer cable has a male connector.
--- Post to this mailing list talk@gtalug.org Unsubscribe from this mailing list https://gtalug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
On Wed, 12 Jul 2023 at 18:18, Karen Lewellen via talk <talk@gtalug.org> wrote:
Serial connectors are 9 pin, parallel cables are 25 pin.
On the PC side this is true. A PC parallel printer port is usually a DB-25 female connector, which joins to a DB-25 male connector on the cable. The other end of the cable will have a 36 pin "Centronics" male connector (officially known as a "Micro Ribbon" connector). The printer will have a matching 36 pin female Centronics/Micro Ribbon connector. -- Scott
On Wed, Jul 12, 2023 at 06:18:41PM -0400, Karen Lewellen via talk wrote:
no one spoke of printer cables. Serial connectors are 9 pin, parallel cables are 25 pin. while old style printer cables use 25 pin as well, there is no, or not to my personal experience a 9 pin connector at all for those printer cables. as a side note allot of external speech synthesizer hardware used 25 pin connectors. and lpt port allocations as well.
Serial ports on PCs eventually tended to be 9 pin. Earlier on and on most other platforms they were 25 pin. Usually the serial and parallel ports used the opposite gender, but on some systems that was not the case. Even worse, some systems (Macintosh and Amiga for example) even used 25 pin ports for SCSI (with the same gender as the parallel port, sometimes places right next to each other. Mixing them up fried things). There were too many standards made by too many people. Many of them conflicting with each other. So the number of pins tells you nothing about what the port is unfortunately. Or at least not with much certainty. If the device has a serial interface, it connects to a serial port on the PC. If the device has a parallel interface it connects to a parallel port on the PC. The cable might adjust the connector, but it does not change the protocol, unless it is an active cable (like a USB to serial or USB to parallel cable for example). -- Len Sorensen
On 2023-07-12 18:18, Karen Lewellen wrote:
no one spoke of printer cables. Serial connectors are 9 pin, parallel cables are 25 pin. while old style printer cables use 25 pin as well, there is no, or not to my personal experience a 9 pin connector at all for those printer cables. as a side note allot of external speech synthesizer hardware used 25 pin connectors. and lpt port allocations as well.
I thought you mentioned a parallel port in your first message and in a reply to me you said "connects via serial port on the computer, to a parallel port on the back of the reading edge". I suspect you got confused because while printer ports, on computers, are 25 pin, serial ports, while currently 9 pin, used to be 25 pin. I then mentioned gender, so you could tell one from the other by touch.
I believe the confusion, speaking personally, came from well meaning projections of information not focused on my actual question, which was and remains, for software options that tested the integrity of internal hardware like motherboards and their included ports. Given I have bought a suitable cable less than two weeks ago, the connectors were never the issue. Kare On Wed, 12 Jul 2023, James Knott wrote:
On 2023-07-12 18:18, Karen Lewellen wrote:
no one spoke of printer cables. Serial connectors are 9 pin, parallel cables are 25 pin. while old style printer cables use 25 pin as well, there is no, or not to my personal experience a 9 pin connector at all for those printer cables. as a side note allot of external speech synthesizer hardware used 25 pin connectors. and lpt port allocations as well.
I thought you mentioned a parallel port in your first message and in a reply to me you said "connects via serial port on the computer, to a parallel port on the back of the reading edge". I suspect you got confused because while printer ports, on computers, are 25 pin, serial ports, while currently 9 pin, used to be 25 pin. I then mentioned gender, so you could tell one from the other by touch.
On Wed, 12 Jul 2023 at 17:44, James Knott via talk <talk@gtalug.org> wrote:
The serial cable has a female connector and the printer cable has a male connector.
To be precise, for a serial cable: The PC will have a DE-9 male connector and the cable that connects to it will have a DE-9 female connector. The PC will be wired as Data Terminal Equipment (DTE). The other end of the cable will have a DB-25 male connector, which will plug into the DB-25 female connector on the Kurzweil "The Reading Edge" reader. The reader will be wired as Data Communications Equipment (DCE), like a telephone modem. Occasionally you would find PCs with DB-25 male DTE serial ports, usually on expansion cards but that is not the case in this discussion. -- Scott
actually, this is quite brilliant. Your serial port example is perfect. When the issue started, it turned out that the machine was working, but the port had stopped. had I known then, what I know now, changing the cable, I likely would not have spent hours reconstructing an older machine. I found on amazon Canada a replacement serial port cable, solving the problem for weeks. However the real issue, how my landlord manages hydro in my apartment, means that the issue as it did last night can start again. Please do not feel you are not providing solutions, because you have in the past just as here. Kare On Wed, 12 Jul 2023, D. Hugh Redelmeier via talk wrote:
This is a hard question.
Most digital systems components work or don't work. It gets really hard when they kind of work.
Let me be a little more explicit about that, with an example. A computer can mostly work but have a failing serial port. Then the component to look at is the serial port, not the whole computer. The serial port will usually work or not work.
Then again, when one says that a serial port isn't completely working, one has to realize that it is made up of components. For example: - the software using the port - the OS - the serial cable - the device on the other end Each of these may be the failure. It gets more difficult if more than one is the problem.
For complete testing I/O (like a serial port), you usually need some kind of hardware test jig to observe what's leaving your system and to generate inputs.
Usually a serial port has gross misbehaviour. Hooking it up to anything just doesn't work. Or either the input or the output just doesn't work. Often the problem turns out to be something simple like cables. OK, I admit, serial cables aren't actually simple: too many configurations.
Sometimes the problem is just dirty contacts. Plugging and unplugging a few times might fix this.
Long ago, I had to replace 1488 or 1489 levl-shifting / buffering chips for serial ports. They could be burnt out by static, I think. Those aren't used any longer so I don't know what you do these days.
In the past, when I've tried to help you, I've failed. I think that the problem is that we have different models of how things work. Clearly your model is correct for you. It means that my attempts of help haven't been useful to you and have just wasted time.
| From: Karen Lewellen via talk <talk@gtalug.org> | | What I am seeking is an open source program that tests aspects of say your | motherboard. that the serial ports or parallel ports work, that the USB ports | are sound etc. | I am asking because due to an as of yet not fixed hydro problem in my new | apartment, the occasional power surges, even with machines attached to | protectors, are causing slight damage to hardware. | Need to know how much as I only have so many computers I can use. | Any program ideas? | Will be sharing suggestions with someone hopefully helping me troubleshoot.
--- Post to this mailing list talk@gtalug.org Unsubscribe from this mailing list https://gtalug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
| From: Karen Lewellen via talk <talk@gtalug.org> | When the issue started, it turned out that the machine was working, but the | port had stopped. Correctly diagnosing a problem is often the first 90% of fixing it. It often isn't easy. (Often it is easy, but we don't remember those events.) | However the real issue, how my landlord manages hydro in my apartment, means | that the issue as it did last night can start again. How does your landlord manage hydro? It is unlikely that a hydro problem will damage a serial cable. I think that a surge powerful enough to melt copper would first fry the electronics. Serial cables can be damaged by rabbits, by wheely chairs, by desk drawers, by excessive flexing and other physical trauma. The soldering of the connectors can fail due to mechanical stress (especially home-made cables). Pins can get bent and even break. Over the years, contact oxidization can happen. <http://melslilzoo.blogspot.com/2016/09/rabbit-proofing-for-your-indoor-rabbit.html> This contains a picture of a rabbit laying waste to cables on a desk. My experience is that they find cables on the floor, behind a desk. Or ones that come too close to their cage. | Please do not feel you are not providing solutions, because you have in the | past just as here. I'm glad to be corrected.
My explanation was not clear. I believe the serge damaged the port not the cable, which is why I am seeking software to test the integrity of internal things like the motherboard. My apartment is the upper basement of a house, where hydro is a part of my rent. However outlets on this floor seem to share circuits with other things both on this floor and likely in the rest of the house which may not be wired well. for example the fridge is on an outlet with other items, so, at least according to those who have already investigated a slight surge or feedback may be being sent. I suspect one of my older mac laptops has paid the price, my stereo which was just refurbished will stop, if something elsewhere int the house is turned on those kinds of things. Have to run extensions because the outlets are all under the radiators etc. The thing is though I cannot be sure just what is damaged, without a tool to test the internal items like the board itself. I only know the machine would not speak, even though sighted help at the time indicated the software was loading on the screen. Kare On Thu, 13 Jul 2023, D. Hugh Redelmeier via talk wrote:
| From: Karen Lewellen via talk <talk@gtalug.org>
| When the issue started, it turned out that the machine was working, but the | port had stopped.
Correctly diagnosing a problem is often the first 90% of fixing it. It often isn't easy. (Often it is easy, but we don't remember those events.)
| However the real issue, how my landlord manages hydro in my apartment, means | that the issue as it did last night can start again.
How does your landlord manage hydro?
It is unlikely that a hydro problem will damage a serial cable. I think that a surge powerful enough to melt copper would first fry the electronics.
Serial cables can be damaged by rabbits, by wheely chairs, by desk drawers, by excessive flexing and other physical trauma. The soldering of the connectors can fail due to mechanical stress (especially home-made cables). Pins can get bent and even break. Over the years, contact oxidization can happen.
<http://melslilzoo.blogspot.com/2016/09/rabbit-proofing-for-your-indoor-rabbit.html> This contains a picture of a rabbit laying waste to cables on a desk. My experience is that they find cables on the floor, behind a desk. Or ones that come too close to their cage.
| Please do not feel you are not providing solutions, because you have in the | past just as here.
I'm glad to be corrected. --- Post to this mailing list talk@gtalug.org Unsubscribe from this mailing list https://gtalug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
Fridges don't usually damage electronic equipment. I'm in a 70s build detached house and my fridge is also on a circuit with other things. If the circuit is overdrawn it will trip the fuse. When the fridge is initially starting up the compressor my lights will momentarily dim. Most power surges that I've heard that damage electronic equipment are from lightning strikes. Don On Thu, 13 Jul 2023 at 10:56, Karen Lewellen via talk <talk@gtalug.org> wrote:
My explanation was not clear. I believe the serge damaged the port not the cable, which is why I am seeking software to test the integrity of internal things like the motherboard. My apartment is the upper basement of a house, where hydro is a part of my rent. However outlets on this floor seem to share circuits with other things both on this floor and likely in the rest of the house which may not be wired well. for example the fridge is on an outlet with other items, so, at least according to those who have already investigated a slight surge or feedback may be being sent. I suspect one of my older mac laptops has paid the price, my stereo which was just refurbished will stop, if something elsewhere int the house is turned on those kinds of things. Have to run extensions because the outlets are all under the radiators etc. The thing is though I cannot be sure just what is damaged, without a tool to test the internal items like the board itself. I only know the machine would not speak, even though sighted help at the time indicated the software was loading on the screen. Kare
On Thu, 13 Jul 2023, D. Hugh Redelmeier via talk wrote:
| From: Karen Lewellen via talk <talk@gtalug.org>
| When the issue started, it turned out that the machine was working, but the | port had stopped.
Correctly diagnosing a problem is often the first 90% of fixing it. It often isn't easy. (Often it is easy, but we don't remember those events.)
| However the real issue, how my landlord manages hydro in my apartment, means | that the issue as it did last night can start again.
How does your landlord manage hydro?
It is unlikely that a hydro problem will damage a serial cable. I think that a surge powerful enough to melt copper would first fry the electronics.
Serial cables can be damaged by rabbits, by wheely chairs, by desk drawers, by excessive flexing and other physical trauma. The soldering of the connectors can fail due to mechanical stress (especially home-made cables). Pins can get bent and even break. Over the years, contact oxidization can happen.
< http://melslilzoo.blogspot.com/2016/09/rabbit-proofing-for-your-indoor-rabbi...
This contains a picture of a rabbit laying waste to cables on a desk. My experience is that they find cables on the floor, behind a desk. Or ones that come too close to their cage.
| Please do not feel you are not providing solutions, because you have in the | past just as here.
I'm glad to be corrected. --- Post to this mailing list talk@gtalug.org Unsubscribe from this mailing list https://gtalug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
--- Post to this mailing list talk@gtalug.org Unsubscribe from this mailing list https://gtalug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
Oh yes, we have gotten some fuse blows..which my landlord expects me to manage by sticking my hand into the fuse box. No labels, and that I might have an issue seeing them seems not to matter here. On Thu, 13 Jul 2023, Don Tai wrote:
Fridges don't usually damage electronic equipment. I'm in a 70s build detached house and my fridge is also on a circuit with other things. If the circuit is overdrawn it will trip the fuse. When the fridge is initially starting up the compressor my lights will momentarily dim.
Most power surges that I've heard that damage electronic equipment are from lightning strikes.
Don
On Thu, 13 Jul 2023 at 10:56, Karen Lewellen via talk <talk@gtalug.org> wrote:
My explanation was not clear. I believe the serge damaged the port not the cable, which is why I am seeking software to test the integrity of internal things like the motherboard. My apartment is the upper basement of a house, where hydro is a part of my rent. However outlets on this floor seem to share circuits with other things both on this floor and likely in the rest of the house which may not be wired well. for example the fridge is on an outlet with other items, so, at least according to those who have already investigated a slight surge or feedback may be being sent. I suspect one of my older mac laptops has paid the price, my stereo which was just refurbished will stop, if something elsewhere int the house is turned on those kinds of things. Have to run extensions because the outlets are all under the radiators etc. The thing is though I cannot be sure just what is damaged, without a tool to test the internal items like the board itself. I only know the machine would not speak, even though sighted help at the time indicated the software was loading on the screen. Kare
On Thu, 13 Jul 2023, D. Hugh Redelmeier via talk wrote:
| From: Karen Lewellen via talk <talk@gtalug.org>
| When the issue started, it turned out that the machine was working, but the | port had stopped.
Correctly diagnosing a problem is often the first 90% of fixing it. It often isn't easy. (Often it is easy, but we don't remember those events.)
| However the real issue, how my landlord manages hydro in my apartment, means | that the issue as it did last night can start again.
How does your landlord manage hydro?
It is unlikely that a hydro problem will damage a serial cable. I think that a surge powerful enough to melt copper would first fry the electronics.
Serial cables can be damaged by rabbits, by wheely chairs, by desk drawers, by excessive flexing and other physical trauma. The soldering of the connectors can fail due to mechanical stress (especially home-made cables). Pins can get bent and even break. Over the years, contact oxidization can happen.
< http://melslilzoo.blogspot.com/2016/09/rabbit-proofing-for-your-indoor-rabbi...
This contains a picture of a rabbit laying waste to cables on a desk. My experience is that they find cables on the floor, behind a desk. Or ones that come too close to their cage.
| Please do not feel you are not providing solutions, because you have in the | past just as here.
I'm glad to be corrected. --- Post to this mailing list talk@gtalug.org Unsubscribe from this mailing list https://gtalug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
--- Post to this mailing list talk@gtalug.org Unsubscribe from this mailing list https://gtalug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
On Thu, 13 Jul 2023 at 11:31, Karen Lewellen via talk <talk@gtalug.org> wrote:
Oh yes, we have gotten some fuse blows..which my landlord expects me to manage by sticking my hand into the fuse box.
It is actually a fuse box or is it a breaker panel? If it's a fuse box, with fuses that have to be removed and replaced, then yes, someone with impaired vision should not be messing with it. If it's a breaker panel, feelling for a tripped breaker and resetting it shouldn't be a problem, as long as there are no other exposed dangers in the area. -- Scott
It is a box, which my landlord told me was the fuse one, with scores of switches with no indication of what circuits they control..he has no idea himself. Speaking personally as someone who has embodied sight loss for several decades, this is not how I manage hydro, especially with other property standards violations in place. On Thu, 13 Jul 2023, Scott Allen wrote:
On Thu, 13 Jul 2023 at 11:31, Karen Lewellen via talk <talk@gtalug.org> wrote:
Oh yes, we have gotten some fuse blows..which my landlord expects me to manage by sticking my hand into the fuse box.
It is actually a fuse box or is it a breaker panel? If it's a fuse box, with fuses that have to be removed and replaced, then yes, someone with impaired vision should not be messing with it.
If it's a breaker panel, feelling for a tripped breaker and resetting it shouldn't be a problem, as long as there are no other exposed dangers in the area.
-- Scott
If they are switches, they will be circuit breakers. I don't know if that means that the box has no fuses. So: I think that it probably safe for you to feel around but I am not confident in that guess. As someone pointed out: if you cause your landlord problems, will they evict you? I hate that question but pragmatically you need to judge the risk/reward ratio. The rental market is so tight. Keeping track of what breakers are for what circuits seems to be hard to do. I don't know why. I currently suffer with this in two different houses. | From: Karen Lewellen via talk <talk@gtalug.org> | | It is a box, which my landlord told me was the fuse one, with scores of | switches with no indication of what circuits they control..he has no idea | himself. | | Speaking personally as someone who has embodied sight loss for several | decades, this is not how I manage hydro, especially with other property | standards violations in place.
On 2023-07-13 11:31, Karen Lewellen via talk wrote:
Oh yes, we have gotten some fuse blows..which my landlord expects me to manage by sticking my hand into the fuse box. No labels, and that I might have an issue seeing them seems not to matter here.
It should go without saying but I'll say it anyway. :) You should add labels as you replace fuses to make it easier down the road when you have to replace a fuse. -- Cheers! Kevin. https://www.patreon.com/KevinCozens | "Nerds make the shiny things that | distract the mouth-breathers, and Owner of Elecraft K2 #2172 | that's why we're powerful" #include <disclaimer/favourite> | --Chris Hardwick
Well yes on the labels, first apartment I have ever lived in without them, with the fuse box for the entire house. Very nice inspector. while the unit does pass inspection where safety and number of outlets are concerned, he asked if I want to log the intermittent nature of power..which is the problem after a fashion. What that eaves me with in terms of finding a solution are a couple of ideas. line conditioning, a UPS, or some very good quality serge protectors. My landlord has offered a dedicated line in the living room, but I am unsure that will solve the computer problems in my office, sparks from somewhere impacting my system. Perhaps a more solid surge protector with enough places to plug things in might? Had not heard of line conditioning until today, which may be a better solution? Thanks all for our thoughts and ideas. Karen
On Mon, 17 Jul 2023 at 20:32, Karen Lewellen via talk <talk@gtalug.org> wrote:
Perhaps a more solid surge protector with enough places to plug things in might?
You can get "whole house" surge protectors that are wired or plugged into the breaker panel. One of the ones that are wired in might be able to be wired into your house's fuse box. (Do you actually have a fuse box? Did the inspector say whether it was a fuse box or a breaker panel?) Perhaps your landlord would be open to installing one of these. Search for "whole house surge protector", you'll find lots of information and recommendations, such as: https://energyrates.ca/product-reviews/surge-protectors/ -- Scott
The inspector referred to it as a fuse box, so has my landlord. No idea where the breaker is, only that there is not one specifically for my floor. My landlord has offered to give me a dedicated line in my living room, not sure how that would impact my office as I shared I believe. Least complex, but most impactive solution will likely be the one he embraces, he keeps saying that the prior tenet never complained..while having o idea how they managed power. On Mon, 17 Jul 2023, Scott Allen wrote:
On Mon, 17 Jul 2023 at 20:32, Karen Lewellen via talk <talk@gtalug.org> wrote:
Perhaps a more solid surge protector with enough places to plug things in might?
You can get "whole house" surge protectors that are wired or plugged into the breaker panel. One of the ones that are wired in might be able to be wired into your house's fuse box. (Do you actually have a fuse box? Did the inspector say whether it was a fuse box or a breaker panel?)
Perhaps your landlord would be open to installing one of these.
Search for "whole house surge protector", you'll find lots of information and recommendations, such as:
https://energyrates.ca/product-reviews/surge-protectors/
-- Scott
If you don't know the source of the problem, it is kind of hard to be sure where you need to fix it. I imagine that a whole house conditioner would be meant to address problems with power coming into the house. If the problem is inside the house, it probably isn't the best solution. As far as I remember you don't know where the problem originates and you don't actually know the nature of the problem. What do you actually know and what do you suspect? As far as I remember: - You fixed one problem by replacing a serial cable connecting your computer and your reader (DB9 to DB25). It is very unlikely that that this cable problem was caused by a power problem - you suspect that something in the power supply may have damaged something else in your computer. Do you know of any symptoms? - one of your devices (I forget which) spontaneously shut off. I don't remember whether this was a single event Are there any other symptoms of power problems? (I too suffer a problem that might be power-related. My home office seems to burn out LED lightbulbs more quickly than it should. I don't know where to start on that one. It might even be heat related rather than power-related.) | From: Karen Lewellen via talk <talk@gtalug.org> | My landlord has offered to give me a dedicated line in my living room, not | sure how that would impact my office as I shared I believe. | Least complex, but most impactive solution will likely be the one he | embraces, he keeps saying that the prior tenet never complained..while having | o idea how they managed power.
On Tue, 18 Jul 2023 at 11:27, D. Hugh Redelmeier via talk <talk@gtalug.org> wrote:
I imagine that a whole house conditioner would be meant to address problems with power coming into the house. If the problem is inside the house, it probably isn't the best solution.
Most power surges are external, coming into the house from outside wiring. However, a whole house surge protector would still protect against internal surges, since all the wiring is essentially in parallel. This is especially true if a surge originated on a different circuit than a susceptible device is on because the surge would have to reach the panel (thus the protector) before going to the device's circuit. Internal equipment and wiring is more likely to generate electrical noise, brownouts and power sags. A conditioner would help against noise but you would likely need a UPS for brownouts and sags. Both a conditioner and UPS would usually also provide surge protection. -- Scott
On Tue, 18 Jul 2023 at 11:51, Scott Allen <mlxxxp@gmail.com> wrote:
A conditioner would help against noise but you would likely need a UPS for brownouts and sags.
In anticipation of a possible reply: There's a device called a harmonic transformer that can boost the voltage of a sagging line and also lower overvoltage; more or less an AC voltage regulator. However, these are large, heavy and expensive, even for a single device or circuit. The cost and size of a whole home capable one would be prohibitive. -- Scott
such a terrific question! The problem is in the house. what I suspect is that, because outlets on my floor share circuits with outlets on the upper floors, when power changes up there, I get electrical feedback, or slight surges down here. I do know that at least one outlet down here shares circuits with items upstairs because when the space heater provided by my landlord caused a fuse to blow, he experienced the problem upstairs. I suspect that outlets in my family room share circuits with outlets upstairs because there are long windows of time when, after again a change upstairs, outlets down here, or items connected to them do not work. I suspect, but cannot prove as I am unsure how Fibe for home draws power, that it is slightly possible what is happening is that fibe is drawing hydro to manage those upstairs outlets impacting mine. Lastly, given all this largely started when upstairs changed to air conditioning, I suspect some of those surges come from that change. does all this resonate? Thanks for providing a rich way for me to think this through. Kare On Tue, 18 Jul 2023, D. Hugh Redelmeier via talk wrote:
If you don't know the source of the problem, it is kind of hard to be sure where you need to fix it.
I imagine that a whole house conditioner would be meant to address problems with power coming into the house. If the problem is inside the house, it probably isn't the best solution.
As far as I remember you don't know where the problem originates and you don't actually know the nature of the problem.
What do you actually know and what do you suspect?
As far as I remember:
- You fixed one problem by replacing a serial cable connecting your computer and your reader (DB9 to DB25). It is very unlikely that that this cable problem was caused by a power problem
- you suspect that something in the power supply may have damaged something else in your computer. Do you know of any symptoms?
- one of your devices (I forget which) spontaneously shut off. I don't remember whether this was a single event
Are there any other symptoms of power problems?
(I too suffer a problem that might be power-related. My home office seems to burn out LED lightbulbs more quickly than it should. I don't know where to start on that one. It might even be heat related rather than power-related.)
| From: Karen Lewellen via talk <talk@gtalug.org>
| My landlord has offered to give me a dedicated line in my living room, not | sure how that would impact my office as I shared I believe. | Least complex, but most impactive solution will likely be the one he | embraces, he keeps saying that the prior tenet never complained..while having | o idea how they managed power. --- Post to this mailing list talk@gtalug.org Unsubscribe from this mailing list https://gtalug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
That means one for each room? or one for each outlet where a power strip will be run? On Tue, 18 Jul 2023, Scott Allen wrote:
On Tue, 18 Jul 2023 at 12:37, Karen Lewellen via talk <talk@gtalug.org> wrote:
Thanks for providing a rich way for me to think this through.
If I were you, I'd just put whatever equipment you're concerned about on a UPS.
-- Scott
On Tue, 18 Jul 2023 at 12:49, Karen Lewellen <klewellen@shellworld.net> wrote:
That means one for each room? or one for each outlet where a power strip will be run?
Think of a UPS as a power bar. If you can power all of the equipment you'd like to protect on one power bar or outlet, you need one UPS. If the equipment is in different rooms or on different circuits, you will need more than one, just like you would use multiple power bars. -- Scott
On Tue, Jul 18, 2023 at 12:09 PM Scott Allen via talk <talk@gtalug.org> wrote:
On Tue, 18 Jul 2023 at 12:49, Karen Lewellen <klewellen@shellworld.net> wrote:
That means one for each room? or one for each outlet where a power strip will be run?
Think of a UPS as a power bar. If you can power all of the equipment you'd like to protect on one power bar or outlet, you need one UPS. If the equipment is in different rooms or on different circuits, you will need more than one, just like you would use multiple power bars.
If you're buying ones that are rated at some 600W or so (1500 VA - - - - which should be watts but somehow isn't) you might be surprised at what all you can run. The cost in the mid $200 range - - - if I were buying 4 or 5 I think I might be asking for a bit off of each too. One thing to keep in mind is that you don't want to count on them too hard. If you drain the battery dead a couple times you capacity is going to hit the toilet! - - - These are short term tools - - - - NOT serious UPS where you have hours of backup. HTH
On Tue, 18 Jul 2023 at 13:57, James Knott via talk <talk@gtalug.org> wrote:
AC power is always rated in volt amps. Because of power factor, you can't use watts.
Unless it's a purely resistive load, naturally has a power factor of 1 or has power factor correction. But I don't think we should be complicating the discussion by continuing about this. -- Scott
On Tue, 18 Jul 2023 at 13:08, Scott Allen <mlxxxp@gmail.com> wrote:
If the equipment is in different rooms or on different circuits, you will need more than one, just like you would use multiple power bars.
To clarify: The need for more than one UPS is normally due to physical, location constraints. Unless all the equipment you'd like to protect would draw more power than is provided by a single 15 amp circuit, you can put it all on one UPS, as long as the power cords can all reach it. Note that you should only be considering equipment you are concerned about protecting or continuing to run during fairly short power outages. You wouldn't put appliances, or other things that aren't very susceptible to surges or noise, on a UPS. I would make a list of the devices you'd like to protect. For example, your PC and monitor, the Kurzweil reader, a TV?, maybe your internet modem/router?. From that, decide if you need more than one UPS based on their locations and power reach. Determine the current or wattage/VA that each requires. From that, along with considering how long you want the equipment to be able to continue running if there's a power failure, the proper size of the UPS(s) can be figured out. In many cases, the time that the equipment needs to run during a power failure doesn't have to be very long. Just enough time (with some margin) to be able to properly and safely shut the equipment down, then you wait out the power outage before turning everything back on. If you actually want to be able to continue using the equipment for some time during a power failure, then a more expensive UPS with a larger battery may be required for it. -- Scott
I'm not sure what you mean by "electrical feedback". Air conditioners (and fridges and freezers) have compressor motors that might well cause voltage sag when they start up. I would hope that the sag doesn't take the voltage outside of the specified range for power. You might see lights dim a bit. Space heaters are often designed to be 1500 Watts which is only a little bit below the limit for most circuits in a home. In this case, a circuit includes all the things connected to one breaker or fuse on the panel. So if you put another heavy load (eg. toaster) on the same circuit, and run them both at the same time, the breaker will likely pop or the fuse will blow. You might be able to tell if you have breakers or fuses by how loudly the landlord swears. Resetting a breaker is easy: just flip the switch back. Replacing a fuse is worse because you have to have a spare fuse and buy some more when you run low. It isn't easy to remember what things are on each circuit. Some heavy loads (eg. stoves) should be on their own circuit. Everyone knows you should have an inventory but that takes more discipline than most people have. I forget which Fibe service your landlord has: VDSL-based or FTTH (Fiber To The Home). I don't think that either system's modem takes significant power. Most modern electronics isn't too sensitive to power supply voltage problems. The switching power supplies don't blink an eye when they are fed 220V. I just looked at the label of one just now and it said AC 100-240V. I think that they are (accidentally) fairly immune a bunch of noise too. Summary: - yes, you might be getting surges/drooping from the air conditioner(s). I would think that they should be on their own circuits but that may well not be the case. - yes, a space heater can blow a fuse if there are significant other loads on the same circuit. - not many devices are sensitive to those droops unless they are severe - Questions: what problems are you actually observing? What device? What symptoms? | From: Karen Lewellen via talk <talk@gtalug.org> | such a terrific question! | The problem is in the house. | what I suspect is that, because outlets on my floor share circuits with | outlets on the upper floors, when power changes up there, I get electrical | feedback, or slight surges down here. | I do know that at least one outlet down here shares circuits with items | upstairs because when the space heater provided by my landlord caused a fuse | to blow, he experienced the problem upstairs. | I suspect that outlets in my family room share circuits with outlets upstairs | because there are long windows of time when, after again a change upstairs, | outlets down here, or items connected to them do not work. | I suspect, but cannot prove as I am unsure how Fibe for home draws power, | that it is slightly possible what is happening is that Fibe is drawing hydro | to manage those upstairs outlets impacting mine. | Lastly, given all this largely started when upstairs changed to air | conditioning, I suspect some of those surges come from that change. | does all this resonate? | Thanks for providing a rich way for me to think this through. | Kare | | | | On Tue, 18 Jul 2023, D. Hugh Redelmeier via talk wrote: | | > If you don't know the source of the problem, it is kind of hard to be | > sure where you need to fix it. | > | > I imagine that a whole house conditioner would be meant to address | > problems with power coming into the house. If the problem is inside | > the house, it probably isn't the best solution. | > | > As far as I remember you don't know where the problem originates and | > you don't actually know the nature of the problem. | > | > What do you actually know and what do you suspect? | > | > As far as I remember: | > | > - You fixed one problem by replacing a serial cable connecting your | > computer and your reader (DB9 to DB25). It is very unlikely that | > that this cable problem was caused by a power problem | > | > - you suspect that something in the power supply may have damaged | > something else in your computer. Do you know of any symptoms? | > | > - one of your devices (I forget which) spontaneously shut off. | > I don't remember whether this was a single event | > | > Are there any other symptoms of power problems? | > | > (I too suffer a problem that might be power-related. My home office | > seems to burn out LED lightbulbs more quickly than it should. I don't | > know where to start on that one. It might even be heat related rather | > than power-related.) | > | > | From: Karen Lewellen via talk <talk@gtalug.org> | > | > | My landlord has offered to give me a dedicated line in my living room, not | > | sure how that would impact my office as I shared I believe. | > | Least complex, but most impactive solution will likely be the one he | > | embraces, he keeps saying that the prior tenet never complained..while | > | having | > | o idea how they managed power. | > --- | > Post to this mailing list talk@gtalug.org | > Unsubscribe from this mailing list https://gtalug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk | > | --- | Post to this mailing list talk@gtalug.org | Unsubscribe from this mailing list https://gtalug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk | |
On Tue, 18 Jul 2023 at 15:11, D. Hugh Redelmeier via talk <talk@gtalug.org> wrote:
You might be able to tell if you have breakers or fuses by how loudly the landlord swears. Resetting a breaker is easy: just flip the switch back. Replacing a fuse is worse because you have to have a spare fuse and buy some more when you run low.
You can get breakers shaped like a fuse, with a reset button in the middle, to replace actual fuses. This could reduce the swearing if it's a fuse box. I don't know if the electrical code actually allows these things but it may. https://www.canadiantire.ca/en/pdp/leviton-mini-push-button-fuse-breaker-120... -- Scott
The feedback term was provided by one of the folks helping me troubleshoot. How I am tracking this is based on what happens to my reading edge, which has its own set of diagnostic tools. The errors are serial port related, sudden sparks in speech, garbled text sent to my synthesizer, which seem to coincide with say someone making a power change upstairs. I am on my second computer experiencing the problem, with the edge itself perfectly fine. Since power flow is the only factor I can influence, and I am having other power issues elsewhere in the space, I want to address that first to the best of my ability. So, let me translate this into short term or mid term options. Keeping in mind that I must install any choice myself are there say on amazon Canada, 1. a UPS unit less than $100 that is small, just for my office stuff that I can simply plug in, without knowing anything about the circuits? or B, a better quality surge protector / power bar, that might help short term, again below $100? thanks, Kare On Tue, 18 Jul 2023, D. Hugh Redelmeier via talk wrote:
I'm not sure what you mean by "electrical feedback".
Air conditioners (and fridges and freezers) have compressor motors that might well cause voltage sag when they start up. I would hope that the sag doesn't take the voltage outside of the specified range for power. You might see lights dim a bit.
Space heaters are often designed to be 1500 Watts which is only a little bit below the limit for most circuits in a home. In this case, a circuit includes all the things connected to one breaker or fuse on the panel. So if you put another heavy load (eg. toaster) on the same circuit, and run them both at the same time, the breaker will likely pop or the fuse will blow.
You might be able to tell if you have breakers or fuses by how loudly the landlord swears. Resetting a breaker is easy: just flip the switch back. Replacing a fuse is worse because you have to have a spare fuse and buy some more when you run low.
It isn't easy to remember what things are on each circuit. Some heavy loads (eg. stoves) should be on their own circuit. Everyone knows you should have an inventory but that takes more discipline than most people have.
I forget which Fibe service your landlord has: VDSL-based or FTTH (Fiber To The Home). I don't think that either system's modem takes significant power.
Most modern electronics isn't too sensitive to power supply voltage problems. The switching power supplies don't blink an eye when they are fed 220V. I just looked at the label of one just now and it said AC 100-240V. I think that they are (accidentally) fairly immune a bunch of noise too.
Summary:
- yes, you might be getting surges/drooping from the air conditioner(s). I would think that they should be on their own circuits but that may well not be the case.
- yes, a space heater can blow a fuse if there are significant other loads on the same circuit.
- not many devices are sensitive to those droops unless they are severe
- Questions: what problems are you actually observing? What device? What symptoms?
| From: Karen Lewellen via talk <talk@gtalug.org>
| such a terrific question! | The problem is in the house. | what I suspect is that, because outlets on my floor share circuits with | outlets on the upper floors, when power changes up there, I get electrical | feedback, or slight surges down here. | I do know that at least one outlet down here shares circuits with items | upstairs because when the space heater provided by my landlord caused a fuse | to blow, he experienced the problem upstairs. | I suspect that outlets in my family room share circuits with outlets upstairs | because there are long windows of time when, after again a change upstairs, | outlets down here, or items connected to them do not work. | I suspect, but cannot prove as I am unsure how Fibe for home draws power, | that it is slightly possible what is happening is that Fibe is drawing hydro | to manage those upstairs outlets impacting mine. | Lastly, given all this largely started when upstairs changed to air | conditioning, I suspect some of those surges come from that change. | does all this resonate? | Thanks for providing a rich way for me to think this through. | Kare | | | | On Tue, 18 Jul 2023, D. Hugh Redelmeier via talk wrote: | | > If you don't know the source of the problem, it is kind of hard to be | > sure where you need to fix it. | > | > I imagine that a whole house conditioner would be meant to address | > problems with power coming into the house. If the problem is inside | > the house, it probably isn't the best solution. | > | > As far as I remember you don't know where the problem originates and | > you don't actually know the nature of the problem. | > | > What do you actually know and what do you suspect? | > | > As far as I remember: | > | > - You fixed one problem by replacing a serial cable connecting your | > computer and your reader (DB9 to DB25). It is very unlikely that | > that this cable problem was caused by a power problem | > | > - you suspect that something in the power supply may have damaged | > something else in your computer. Do you know of any symptoms? | > | > - one of your devices (I forget which) spontaneously shut off. | > I don't remember whether this was a single event | > | > Are there any other symptoms of power problems? | > | > (I too suffer a problem that might be power-related. My home office | > seems to burn out LED lightbulbs more quickly than it should. I don't | > know where to start on that one. It might even be heat related rather | > than power-related.) | > | > | From: Karen Lewellen via talk <talk@gtalug.org> | > | > | My landlord has offered to give me a dedicated line in my living room, not | > | sure how that would impact my office as I shared I believe. | > | Least complex, but most impactive solution will likely be the one he | > | embraces, he keeps saying that the prior tenet never complained..while | > | having | > | o idea how they managed power. | > --- | > Post to this mailing list talk@gtalug.org | > Unsubscribe from this mailing list https://gtalug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk | > | --- | Post to this mailing list talk@gtalug.org | Unsubscribe from this mailing list https://gtalug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk | | --- Post to this mailing list talk@gtalug.org Unsubscribe from this mailing list https://gtalug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
Thanks for more description of your device problems. I take it that a "sudden spark in speach" is a click or a pop. That's not going to be part of the signal from serial port. Garbled text sent to your synthesizer needs more analysis. That also isn't a typical serial signal error caused by power. Computers with bad power mostly crash. Does your synth log the input anywhere? Can you go back and review what the input was when the output was garbled? I'm not expert in UPSes. I think that any under $100 are quite limited in capacity. My guess is that $200 would get you one of suitable capacity. Here's an inexpensive one that would work but only for very small loads (like a modem): <https://www.amazon.ca/SCHNEIDER-ELECTRIC-APC-Protector-BE425M/dp/B01HDC236Q/ref=sr_1_5> I think that has hard to replace batteries too. There are a lot of things to know about UPSes. - is the output waveform a square wave, a rough approximatin of a sine wave, or a sine wave? Some devices care and some don't. - what kind of power filtering / conditioning does the unit provide? - how much wattage (affects the load you can put on it) - how much capacity does it have? (affects how long devices can run during a blackout) | From: Karen Lewellen via talk <talk@gtalug.org> | To: D. Hugh Redelmeier <hugh@mimosa.com>, GTALUG Talk <talk@gtalug.org> | Cc: Karen Lewellen <klewellen@shellworld.net> | Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2023 08:48:52 -0400 (EDT) | Subject: Re: [GTALUG] computer hardware testing tools. | | The feedback term was provided by one of the folks helping me troubleshoot. | How I am tracking this is based on what happens to my reading edge, which | has its own set of diagnostic tools. | The errors are serial port related, sudden sparks in speech, garbled text sent | to my synthesizer, which seem to coincide with say someone making a power | change upstairs. | I am on my second computer experiencing the problem, with the edge itself | perfectly fine. | Since power flow is the only factor I can influence, and I am having other | power issues elsewhere in the space, I want to address that first to the best | of my ability. | So, let me translate this into short term or mid term options. | Keeping in mind that I must install any choice myself are there say on amazon | Canada, | 1. a UPS unit less than $100 that is small, just for my office stuff that I | can simply plug in, without knowing anything about the circuits? or | B, a better quality surge protector / power bar, that might help short term, | again below $100? | thanks, | Kare
More terrific information, thanks for providing these details. One thing I would love to find, but am unsure where to look, is the technical repair manuals for the reading edge. That is because there is an entire set of onboard diagnostic tools, including ones that test the port connection from the side of the edge itself. I would absolutely not play with these without the manuals, its the only path I have to reading print and using a computer. No on the characters, they are not showing on screen, and overflow the character buffer when they reach the edge, so I clear them. Its random circumflex and letters and run together spoken stuff. My thought was power because my computer sometimes freezes as well. Based on your wisdom here, I am going to go with the actual surge protector avenue..and wait for a better idea UPS wise. Truly wish I had a way to test my serial port outside of the reading edge too, that way I would know which is the issue. Thanks, Karen On Wed, 19 Jul 2023, D. Hugh Redelmeier via talk wrote:
Thanks for more description of your device problems.
I take it that a "sudden spark in speach" is a click or a pop. That's not going to be part of the signal from serial port.
Garbled text sent to your synthesizer needs more analysis. That also isn't a typical serial signal error caused by power. Computers with bad power mostly crash.
Does your synth log the input anywhere? Can you go back and review what the input was when the output was garbled?
I'm not expert in UPSes. I think that any under $100 are quite limited in capacity. My guess is that $200 would get you one of suitable capacity.
Here's an inexpensive one that would work but only for very small loads (like a modem): <https://www.amazon.ca/SCHNEIDER-ELECTRIC-APC-Protector-BE425M/dp/B01HDC236Q/ref=sr_1_5> I think that has hard to replace batteries too.
There are a lot of things to know about UPSes.
- is the output waveform a square wave, a rough approximatin of a sine wave, or a sine wave? Some devices care and some don't.
- what kind of power filtering / conditioning does the unit provide?
- how much wattage (affects the load you can put on it)
- how much capacity does it have? (affects how long devices can run during a blackout)
| From: Karen Lewellen via talk <talk@gtalug.org> | To: D. Hugh Redelmeier <hugh@mimosa.com>, GTALUG Talk <talk@gtalug.org> | Cc: Karen Lewellen <klewellen@shellworld.net> | Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2023 08:48:52 -0400 (EDT) | Subject: Re: [GTALUG] computer hardware testing tools. | | The feedback term was provided by one of the folks helping me troubleshoot. | How I am tracking this is based on what happens to my reading edge, which | has its own set of diagnostic tools. | The errors are serial port related, sudden sparks in speech, garbled text sent | to my synthesizer, which seem to coincide with say someone making a power | change upstairs. | I am on my second computer experiencing the problem, with the edge itself | perfectly fine. | Since power flow is the only factor I can influence, and I am having other | power issues elsewhere in the space, I want to address that first to the best | of my ability. | So, let me translate this into short term or mid term options. | Keeping in mind that I must install any choice myself are there say on amazon | Canada, | 1. a UPS unit less than $100 that is small, just for my office stuff that I | can simply plug in, without knowing anything about the circuits? or | B, a better quality surge protector / power bar, that might help short term, | again below $100? | thanks, | Kare
--- Post to this mailing list talk@gtalug.org Unsubscribe from this mailing list https://gtalug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
There is one for $33 with a 12 volt circuit breaker made of aluminum <spelling> over kill? sorry no spell check, computer is crashing again. Kare
1. others on the list know way more than I do. 2. if you'd like us to comment on a device, a link to it would be good. 3. What would a 12v breaker be doing on a device for protection a 120V AC circuit? 4. spelling looked fine to me. "aluminum" is the North American word for the element. <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aluminium#Spelling> | From: Karen Lewellen via talk <talk@gtalug.org> | | There is one for $33 with a 12 volt circuit breaker made of aluminum | <spelling> | over kill? | sorry no spell check, computer is crashing again. | Kare
On Thu, 20 Jul 2023 at 14:48, D. Hugh Redelmeier via talk <talk@gtalug.org> wrote:
4. spelling looked fine to me.
In the title, I believe "is computer hardware testing tool" was meant to be "was computer hardware testing tool" -- Scott
Are there actual sparks that you know of? The only kinds of sparks that I'd accept are 1. When you unplug a heavy (inductive?) load, like an ordinary electric kettle. That seems to be normal. 2. Static electricity -- when you get grounded after shuffling across a carpet when humidity is low (winter, if you have no humidifier). Also after putting on or off a nylon coat. Anything else sounds unsafe. I'm not an expert in these matters. | From: Karen Lewellen via talk <talk@gtalug.org> | My landlord has offered a dedicated line in the living room, but I am unsure | that will solve the computer problems in my office, sparks from somewhere | impacting my system.
In my house I'd add arc welding, but that's just me. Heating metal to 6k C, in a controlled manner... On Tue, 18 Jul 2023 at 11:09, D. Hugh Redelmeier via talk <talk@gtalug.org> wrote:
Are there actual sparks that you know of? The only kinds of sparks that I'd accept are
1. When you unplug a heavy (inductive?) load, like an ordinary electric kettle. That seems to be normal.
2. Static electricity -- when you get grounded after shuffling across a carpet when humidity is low (winter, if you have no humidifier). Also after putting on or off a nylon coat.
Anything else sounds unsafe. I'm not an expert in these matters.
| From: Karen Lewellen via talk <talk@gtalug.org>
| My landlord has offered a dedicated line in the living room, but I am unsure | that will solve the computer problems in my office, sparks from somewhere | impacting my system. --- Post to this mailing list talk@gtalug.org Unsubscribe from this mailing list https://gtalug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
On Thu, 13 Jul 2023 at 10:56, Karen Lewellen via talk <talk@gtalug.org> wrote:
for example the fridge is on an outlet with other items
The Canadian and Ontario electrical codes require a fridge to have its own dedicated circuit. (Actually, you're allowed to have an additional outlet above the fridge location, on the same circuit, for a 120V AC electric clock, which isn't commonly used or provided these days.) If there are other things on the fridge circuit, you should remove them if it's under your control. If these other items aren't under your control, you should inform your landlord that it's a violation of the electrical code. If you're concerned about surges and brownouts caused by poor wiring, overloaded circuits, heavy loads being switched on or off, or even lightning, putting a UPS on the equipment you'd like to protect is a good idea, as has been previously discussed. -- Scott
On 2023-07-13 12:26, Scott Allen via talk wrote:
for example the fridge is on an outlet with other items The Canadian and Ontario electrical codes require a fridge to have its own dedicated circuit. (Actually, you're allowed to have an additional outlet above the fridge location, on the same circuit, for a 120V AC electric clock, which isn't commonly used or provided these days.) If
On Thu, 13 Jul 2023 at 10:56, Karen Lewellen via talk <talk@gtalug.org> wrote: there are other things on the fridge circuit, you should remove them if it's under your control. If these other items aren't under your control, you should inform your landlord that it's a violation of the electrical code.
The electrical code generally will allow wiring that met the code when it was installed to stay. That being said it is likely that the work that was done to build an apartment was done while a more current electrical code was in effect. So you could report the violation but that would not endear you to your landlord and possibly not end well for either of you. -- Alvin Starr || land: (647)478-6285 Netvel Inc. || Cell: (416)806-0133 alvin@netvel.net ||
As shared previously, the city is investigating, much about the layout violates property standards, they will be here on Monday. On Thu, 13 Jul 2023, Scott Allen wrote:
On Thu, 13 Jul 2023 at 10:56, Karen Lewellen via talk <talk@gtalug.org> wrote:
for example the fridge is on an outlet with other items
The Canadian and Ontario electrical codes require a fridge to have its own dedicated circuit. (Actually, you're allowed to have an additional outlet above the fridge location, on the same circuit, for a 120V AC electric clock, which isn't commonly used or provided these days.) If there are other things on the fridge circuit, you should remove them if it's under your control. If these other items aren't under your control, you should inform your landlord that it's a violation of the electrical code.
If you're concerned about surges and brownouts caused by poor wiring, overloaded circuits, heavy loads being switched on or off, or even lightning, putting a UPS on the equipment you'd like to protect is a good idea, as has been previously discussed.
-- Scott
On Thu, Jul 13, 2023 at 11:26 AM Scott Allen via talk <talk@gtalug.org> wrote:
On Thu, 13 Jul 2023 at 10:56, Karen Lewellen via talk <talk@gtalug.org> wrote:
for example the fridge is on an outlet with other items
The Canadian and Ontario electrical codes require a fridge to have its own dedicated circuit. (Actually, you're allowed to have an additional outlet above the fridge location, on the same circuit, for a 120V AC electric clock, which isn't commonly used or provided these days.) If there are other things on the fridge circuit, you should remove them if it's under your control. If these other items aren't under your control, you should inform your landlord that it's a violation of the electrical code.
You bet - - - - totally accurate as to about 2023 - - - any idea what the code was in ??? when that particular house was built? AIUI the fridge on a separate circuit is from some time in the 80s so if the house was built in the 70s it would have been code legal to do otherwise. Is it a good idea to have the fridge on with other items - - - nope - - - but codes change over time - - - sometimes in good ways and sometimes in not so good ways. Regards
On Thu, Jul 13, 2023 at 03:11:03PM -0500, o1bigtenor via talk wrote:
You bet - - - - totally accurate as to about 2023 - - - any idea what the code was in ??? when that particular house was built? AIUI the fridge on a separate circuit is from some time in the 80s so if the house was built in the 70s it would have been code legal to do otherwise. Is it a good idea to have the fridge on with other items - - - nope - - - but codes change over time - - - sometimes in good ways and sometimes in not so good ways.
I was surprised to find out the code for kitchen outlets has changed at some point from having 2x15A circuits to each counter outlet pair, to having 1x20A to each outlet pair. That seems like a downgrade, although sure saves some space in the panel. -- Len Sorensen
On Fri, 14 Jul 2023 at 18:58, Lennart Sorensen via talk <talk@gtalug.org> wrote:
I was surprised to find out the code for kitchen outlets has changed at some point from having 2x15A circuits to each counter outlet pair, to having 1x20A to each outlet pair.
At the risk of continuing to go off topic; actually it hasn't "changed". Allowing a 20A circuit is an addition. You can still do a split dual 15A outlet with a double pole breaker if you wish. Advantages of a 20A circuit are: - A single run of the required 12 gauge cable is cheaper and easier than running two 14 gauge cables. - You only need a single pole 20A breaker instead of a 2 pole 15A breaker. This is cheaper and takes up less space in the panel. - You can install a regular 20A breaker and use a receptacle with ground and arc fault (GFCI/AFCI) protection. They don't make 15A split receptacles with this protection so you have to use a 2 pole GFCI/AFCI breaker. A 2 pole GFCI/AFCI breaker with a standard receptacle is much more expensive than a non-protecting breaker with a GFCI/AFCI receptacle. -- Scott
On Fri, 14 Jul 2023 at 19:30, Scott Allen <mlxxxp@gmail.com> wrote:
- A single run of the required 12 gauge cable is cheaper and easier than running two 14 gauge cables.
Sorry, I'll correct myself. For the 15A circuit you can use a single 3 conductor (plus ground) 14 gauge cable, so pulling it is about the same as 2 conductor (plus ground) 12 gauge cable. The 12 gauge cable is still cheaper, though. -- Scott
On 2023-07-14 18:58, Lennart Sorensen via talk wrote:
I was surprised to find out the code for kitchen outlets has changed at some point from having 2x15A circuits to each counter outlet pair, to having 1x20A to each outlet pair. That seems like a downgrade, although sure saves some space in the panel.
My condo was new 30 years ago and it has the 2x15A circuits.
2x15A is what I'm aware of. We need a dictator to sort all this out. On 2023-07-14 20:28, James Knott via talk wrote:
On 2023-07-14 18:58, Lennart Sorensen via talk wrote:
I was surprised to find out the code for kitchen outlets has changed at some point from having 2x15A circuits to each counter outlet pair, to having 1x20A to each outlet pair. That seems like a downgrade, although sure saves some space in the panel.
My condo was new 30 years ago and it has the 2x15A circuits. --- Post to this mailing list talk@gtalug.org Unsubscribe from this mailing list https://gtalug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
On Fri, Jul 14, 2023 at 08:28:12PM -0400, James Knott via talk wrote:
My condo was new 30 years ago and it has the 2x15A circuits.
My current house from the mid 1970's uses 2x15A. My new place from right now (well supposed to be complete next January) is using 1x20A. Code allows (and seems to recommend) using that, and it costs less, so of course that is what new development is going to do. I was just surprised to see the change, although the space savings in the panel seem like a good idea given how much space the kitchen outlets took up in my current panel. I would think using both a toaster and a kettle at the same time from one pair of outlets may not work anymore. -- Len Sorensen
What exactly are the remaining problems that you can put your finger on? Laptops effectively have built-in UPSes. They should not be affected by drooping voltage and a surge would have to be fairly large to harm it. I would guess that the first thing to fail would be the power brick. Have you tested the system with a different brick? A stereo that stops is an odd symptom. What do you mean by "stop"? What components do what? (Many quite different constellations of devices are called stereos.) Do you have any remaining concrete problem with your computer? Wanting to run diagnostics is reasonable except that good broad spectrum tests are hard to find. The best diagnostic seems to be running the computer on normal tasks. Diagnostics I use: memtest86+ for RAM (stand-alone) SMARTmon utilities for disks (Linux or Windows) fsck for filesystems (Linux) | From: Karen Lewellen via talk <talk@gtalug.org> | | My explanation was not clear. | I believe the serge damaged the port not the cable, which is why I am seeking | software to test the integrity of internal things like the motherboard. | My apartment is the upper basement of a house, where hydro is a part of my | rent. | However outlets on this floor seem to share circuits with other things both on | this floor and likely in the rest of the house which may not be wired well. | for example the fridge is on an outlet with other items, so, at least | according to those who have already investigated a slight surge or feedback | may be being sent. | I suspect one of my older mac laptops has paid the price, my stereo which was | just refurbished will stop, if something elsewhere int the house is turned on | those kinds of things. Have to run extensions because the outlets are all | under the radiators etc. | The thing is though I cannot be sure just what is damaged, without a tool to | test the internal items like the board itself. I only know the machine would | not speak, even though sighted help at the time indicated the software was | loading on the screen. | Kare
If you live in an older house, older than a house built in the 1970s, then you probably have fuses and not breakers. Older houses could have the service panel upgraded to breakers, say from 100 amp to 200 amps. There is a chance that someone could remove a fuse and not replace it immediately. There are also blended cases where a panel can have fuses and some breakers. A person that is not careful could touch the wrong place and receive a nasty shock. I would not recommend you mess with your electrical panel unless you are sure it is completely safe all the time. On Thu, 13 Jul 2023 at 14:54, D. Hugh Redelmeier via talk <talk@gtalug.org> wrote:
What exactly are the remaining problems that you can put your finger on?
Laptops effectively have built-in UPSes. They should not be affected by drooping voltage and a surge would have to be fairly large to harm it. I would guess that the first thing to fail would be the power brick. Have you tested the system with a different brick?
A stereo that stops is an odd symptom. What do you mean by "stop"? What components do what? (Many quite different constellations of devices are called stereos.)
Do you have any remaining concrete problem with your computer? Wanting to run diagnostics is reasonable except that good broad spectrum tests are hard to find. The best diagnostic seems to be running the computer on normal tasks.
Diagnostics I use: memtest86+ for RAM (stand-alone) SMARTmon utilities for disks (Linux or Windows) fsck for filesystems (Linux)
| From: Karen Lewellen via talk <talk@gtalug.org> | | My explanation was not clear. | I believe the serge damaged the port not the cable, which is why I am seeking | software to test the integrity of internal things like the motherboard. | My apartment is the upper basement of a house, where hydro is a part of my | rent. | However outlets on this floor seem to share circuits with other things both on | this floor and likely in the rest of the house which may not be wired well. | for example the fridge is on an outlet with other items, so, at least | according to those who have already investigated a slight surge or feedback | may be being sent. | I suspect one of my older mac laptops has paid the price, my stereo which was | just refurbished will stop, if something elsewhere int the house is turned on | those kinds of things. Have to run extensions because the outlets are all | under the radiators etc. | The thing is though I cannot be sure just what is damaged, without a tool to | test the internal items like the board itself. I only know the machine would | not speak, even though sighted help at the time indicated the software was | loading on the screen. | Kare --- Post to this mailing list talk@gtalug.org Unsubscribe from this mailing list https://gtalug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
Computer component testing software, even if you can find it, won't prevent hardware damage. Maybe you should consider a UPS or other power management hardware that will even out any power surges and brownouts. Don On Tue, 11 Jul 2023 at 18:05, Karen Lewellen via talk <talk@gtalug.org> wrote:
Hi folks, What I am seeking is an open source program that tests aspects of say your motherboard. that the serial ports or parallel ports work, that the USB ports are sound etc. I am asking because due to an as of yet not fixed hydro problem in my new apartment, the occasional power surges, even with machines attached to protectors, are causing slight damage to hardware. Need to know how much as I only have so many computers I can use. Any program ideas? Will be sharing suggestions with someone hopefully helping me troubleshoot. Thanks, Karen
--- Post to this mailing list talk@gtalug.org Unsubscribe from this mailing list https://gtalug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
How expensive are UPS units, and how do they work? My hydro is included in my rent. However my landlord does not understand his layout from the city standards is not correct. It is being investigated, but may still need an alternative. On Wed, 12 Jul 2023, Don Tai wrote:
Computer component testing software, even if you can find it, won't prevent hardware damage. Maybe you should consider a UPS or other power management hardware that will even out any power surges and brownouts. Don
On Tue, 11 Jul 2023 at 18:05, Karen Lewellen via talk <talk@gtalug.org> wrote:
Hi folks, What I am seeking is an open source program that tests aspects of say your motherboard. that the serial ports or parallel ports work, that the USB ports are sound etc. I am asking because due to an as of yet not fixed hydro problem in my new apartment, the occasional power surges, even with machines attached to protectors, are causing slight damage to hardware. Need to know how much as I only have so many computers I can use. Any program ideas? Will be sharing suggestions with someone hopefully helping me troubleshoot. Thanks, Karen
--- Post to this mailing list talk@gtalug.org Unsubscribe from this mailing list https://gtalug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
A UPS is essentially a battery with some electronics. You plug the UPS into the wall and then plug your computer into the UPS. The UPS monitors the power and evens out brownouts and power surges. When power goes out completely the UPS allows you time to save your work and safely power down your computer. When there is constant power, the UPS will recharge the battery. Prices vary with the size of the UPS. On Wed, 12 Jul 2023 at 12:37, Karen Lewellen <klewellen@shellworld.net> wrote:
How expensive are UPS units, and how do they work? My hydro is included in my rent. However my landlord does not understand his layout from the city standards is not correct. It is being investigated, but may still need an alternative.
On Wed, 12 Jul 2023, Don Tai wrote:
Computer component testing software, even if you can find it, won't prevent hardware damage. Maybe you should consider a UPS or other power management hardware that will even out any power surges and brownouts. Don
On Tue, 11 Jul 2023 at 18:05, Karen Lewellen via talk <talk@gtalug.org> wrote:
Hi folks, What I am seeking is an open source program that tests aspects of say your motherboard. that the serial ports or parallel ports work, that the USB ports are sound etc. I am asking because due to an as of yet not fixed hydro problem in my new apartment, the occasional power surges, even with machines attached to protectors, are causing slight damage to hardware. Need to know how much as I only have so many computers I can use. Any program ideas? Will be sharing suggestions with someone hopefully helping me troubleshoot. Thanks, Karen
--- Post to this mailing list talk@gtalug.org Unsubscribe from this mailing list https://gtalug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
that is interesting..might need more than one due to hydro flow. I would hope that one could say connect power bars tot he UPS so that more than a single item gets monitored? On Wed, 12 Jul 2023, Don Tai wrote:
A UPS is essentially a battery with some electronics. You plug the UPS into the wall and then plug your computer into the UPS. The UPS monitors the power and evens out brownouts and power surges. When power goes out completely the UPS allows you time to save your work and safely power down your computer. When there is constant power, the UPS will recharge the battery.
Prices vary with the size of the UPS.
On Wed, 12 Jul 2023 at 12:37, Karen Lewellen <klewellen@shellworld.net> wrote:
How expensive are UPS units, and how do they work? My hydro is included in my rent. However my landlord does not understand his layout from the city standards is not correct. It is being investigated, but may still need an alternative.
On Wed, 12 Jul 2023, Don Tai wrote:
Computer component testing software, even if you can find it, won't prevent hardware damage. Maybe you should consider a UPS or other power management hardware that will even out any power surges and brownouts. Don
On Tue, 11 Jul 2023 at 18:05, Karen Lewellen via talk <talk@gtalug.org> wrote:
Hi folks, What I am seeking is an open source program that tests aspects of say your motherboard. that the serial ports or parallel ports work, that the USB ports are sound etc. I am asking because due to an as of yet not fixed hydro problem in my new apartment, the occasional power surges, even with machines attached to protectors, are causing slight damage to hardware. Need to know how much as I only have so many computers I can use. Any program ideas? Will be sharing suggestions with someone hopefully helping me troubleshoot. Thanks, Karen
--- Post to this mailing list talk@gtalug.org Unsubscribe from this mailing list https://gtalug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
yes, you can plug your power bar into the UPS On Wed, 12 Jul 2023 at 15:14, Karen Lewellen <klewellen@shellworld.net> wrote:
that is interesting..might need more than one due to hydro flow. I would hope that one could say connect power bars tot he UPS so that more than a single item gets monitored?
On Wed, 12 Jul 2023, Don Tai wrote:
A UPS is essentially a battery with some electronics. You plug the UPS into the wall and then plug your computer into the UPS. The UPS monitors the power and evens out brownouts and power surges. When power goes out completely the UPS allows you time to save your work and safely power down your computer. When there is constant power, the UPS will recharge the battery.
Prices vary with the size of the UPS.
On Wed, 12 Jul 2023 at 12:37, Karen Lewellen <klewellen@shellworld.net> wrote:
How expensive are UPS units, and how do they work? My hydro is included in my rent. However my landlord does not understand his layout from the city standards is not correct. It is being investigated, but may still need an alternative.
On Wed, 12 Jul 2023, Don Tai wrote:
Computer component testing software, even if you can find it, won't prevent hardware damage. Maybe you should consider a UPS or other power management hardware that will even out any power surges and brownouts. Don
On Tue, 11 Jul 2023 at 18:05, Karen Lewellen via talk <talk@gtalug.org
wrote:
Hi folks, What I am seeking is an open source program that tests aspects of say your motherboard. that the serial ports or parallel ports work, that the USB ports are sound etc. I am asking because due to an as of yet not fixed hydro problem in my new apartment, the occasional power surges, even with machines attached to protectors, are causing slight damage to hardware. Need to know how much as I only have so many computers I can use. Any program ideas? Will be sharing suggestions with someone hopefully helping me troubleshoot. Thanks, Karen
--- Post to this mailing list talk@gtalug.org Unsubscribe from this mailing list https://gtalug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
On 12/07/2023 15:15, Don Tai via talk wrote:
yes, you can plug your power bar into the UPS
You can and I do but I do not plug surge-protected power bars in. These might trigger on the output provided by the UPS (not that I ever tried, but I respect this rule)
On Wed, 12 Jul 2023 at 15:14, Karen Lewellen <klewellen@shellworld.net> wrote:
that is interesting..might need more than one due to hydro flow. I would hope that one could say connect power bars tot he UPS so that more than a single item gets monitored?
On Wed, 12 Jul 2023, Don Tai wrote:
> A UPS is essentially a battery with some electronics. You plug the UPS into > the wall and then plug your computer into the UPS. The UPS monitors the > power and evens out brownouts and power surges. When power goes out > completely the UPS allows you time to save your work and safely power down > your computer. When there is constant power, the UPS will recharge the > battery. > > Prices vary with the size of the UPS. > > On Wed, 12 Jul 2023 at 12:37, Karen Lewellen <klewellen@shellworld.net> > wrote: > >> How expensive are UPS units, and how do they work? >> My hydro is included in my rent. However my landlord does not understand >> his layout from the city standards is not correct. It is being >> investigated, but may still need an alternative. >> >> >> >> On Wed, 12 Jul 2023, Don Tai wrote: >> >>> Computer component testing software, even if you can find it, won't >> prevent >>> hardware damage. Maybe you should consider a UPS or other power >> management >>> hardware that will even out any power surges and brownouts. >>> Don >>> >>> On Tue, 11 Jul 2023 at 18:05, Karen Lewellen via talk <talk@gtalug.org> >>> wrote: >>> >>>> Hi folks, >>>> What I am seeking is an open source program that tests aspects of say >> your >>>> motherboard. that the serial ports or parallel ports work, that the USB >>>> ports are sound etc. >>>> I am asking because due to an as of yet not fixed hydro problem in my >> new >>>> apartment, the occasional power surges, even with machines attached to >>>> protectors, are causing slight damage to hardware. >>>> Need to know how much as I only have so many computers I can use. >>>> Any program ideas? >>>> Will be sharing suggestions with someone hopefully helping me >>>> troubleshoot. >>>> Thanks, >>>> Karen >>>> >>>> >>>> --- >>>> Post to this mailing list talk@gtalug.org >>>> Unsubscribe from this mailing list >>>> https://gtalug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk >>>> >>> >> >
--- Post to this mailing listtalk@gtalug.org Unsubscribe from this mailing listhttps://gtalug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
-- -- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. www.avast.com
On Wed, 12 Jul 2023 at 12:37, Karen Lewellen via talk <talk@gtalug.org> wrote:
How expensive are UPS units, and how do they work?
I was typing this when Don Tai replied but I'll post it just in case anything additional I've said is helpful: UPS stands for Uninterruptible Power Supply, sometimes also called a "battery backup" unit. It's a piece of equipment that contains a rechargeable battery, connects to your building's AC power (usually by just plugging it into a standard AC outlet) and has AC receptacles on it that you plug your equipment into instead of plugging them directly into the wall. You could think of it as a big power bar with a battery in it. The battery is kept continually charged by a built-in battery charger while it's plugged in. If the power fails, an DC to AC converter (called an inverter) switches to the outlets and continues to provide AC power to your equipment. When mains power is restored, the battery is switched out and the AC is switched in and the battery is again charged. Thus, it provides "uninterruptible" AC power to your equipment. Like power bars, most UPSs also provide surge protection and sometimes also other line conditioning. The cost and size of the UPS you require will depend on how much power the equipment you want to keep running draws and how long you have to keep it running. For your requirements, the size could vary from about 12 inches square to the size of a large suitcase. Cost could be from maybe $75 to many hundreds. -- Scott
Your explanation is better and more thorough. On Wed, 12 Jul 2023 at 13:35, Scott Allen <mlxxxp@gmail.com> wrote:
On Wed, 12 Jul 2023 at 12:37, Karen Lewellen via talk <talk@gtalug.org> wrote:
How expensive are UPS units, and how do they work?
I was typing this when Don Tai replied but I'll post it just in case anything additional I've said is helpful:
UPS stands for Uninterruptible Power Supply, sometimes also called a "battery backup" unit. It's a piece of equipment that contains a rechargeable battery, connects to your building's AC power (usually by just plugging it into a standard AC outlet) and has AC receptacles on it that you plug your equipment into instead of plugging them directly into the wall. You could think of it as a big power bar with a battery in it.
The battery is kept continually charged by a built-in battery charger while it's plugged in. If the power fails, an DC to AC converter (called an inverter) switches to the outlets and continues to provide AC power to your equipment. When mains power is restored, the battery is switched out and the AC is switched in and the battery is again charged. Thus, it provides "uninterruptible" AC power to your equipment. Like power bars, most UPSs also provide surge protection and sometimes also other line conditioning.
The cost and size of the UPS you require will depend on how much power the equipment you want to keep running draws and how long you have to keep it running. For your requirements, the size could vary from about 12 inches square to the size of a large suitcase. Cost could be from maybe $75 to many hundreds.
-- Scott
On Tue, Jul 11, 2023 at 06:05:29PM -0400, Karen Lewellen via talk wrote:
Hi folks, What I am seeking is an open source program that tests aspects of say your motherboard. that the serial ports or parallel ports work, that the USB ports are sound etc. I am asking because due to an as of yet not fixed hydro problem in my new apartment, the occasional power surges, even with machines attached to protectors, are causing slight damage to hardware. Need to know how much as I only have so many computers I can use. Any program ideas? Will be sharing suggestions with someone hopefully helping me troubleshoot.
I am not aware of anything that does that. It gets complicated really fast. You could have a loopback plug to test part of a serial port. A better test requires connecting two serial ports together and testing them with each other (I used to work on a product where we did exactly that as part of the manufacturing test of the product). Parallel ports could probably be done in a similar way, although something with a bit of electronics on it you could do some latching on might make some of the pins on the port easier to test. It sure was simpler back when computers had a fixed feature set and a test harness and software could be made for it (lke the commodore 64 for example). I have seen USB testers that you plug in and they have a display on them that shows if the port is working correctly. They very clearly assume the user can visually detemine what it is doing unfortunately. It seems for PCs people tend to assume it is working unless it obviously isn't. Not very convinient if you think there might be a problem and would like to be sure. -- Len Sorensen
Getting back to original thread... There are programs to test memory, cpu, and disk, because you have control of data, and can compare against expected data. However, you can't easily test serial, parallel, USB, network, and other I/Os, because you can't easily control both side of connection. People just try it, and if it works, then it works. Eg. Network -- Just try it, and if "google.com" gives you expected webpage, then it works. Eg. USB -- Plug in a known usb stick or device, and if it works, then it works. On 2023-07-11 18:05, Karen Lewellen via talk wrote:
Hi folks, What I am seeking is an open source program that tests aspects of say your motherboard. that the serial ports or parallel ports work, that the USB ports are sound etc. I am asking because due to an as of yet not fixed hydro problem in my new apartment, the occasional power surges, even with machines attached to protectors, are causing slight damage to hardware. Need to know how much as I only have so many computers I can use. Any program ideas? Will be sharing suggestions with someone hopefully helping me troubleshoot. Thanks, Karen
--- Post to this mailing list talk@gtalug.org Unsubscribe from this mailing list https://gtalug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
Thanks for getting back to my question smiles. I believe i have been focused on Motherboards more than the ports for your exact reason, the ports are connection dependent. what about boards themselves? On Thu, 13 Jul 2023, William Park via talk wrote:
Getting back to original thread... There are programs to test memory, cpu, and disk, because you have control of data, and can compare against expected data.
However, you can't easily test serial, parallel, USB, network, and other I/Os, because you can't easily control both side of connection. People just try it, and if it works, then it works. Eg. Network -- Just try it, and if "google.com" gives you expected webpage, then it works. Eg. USB -- Plug in a known usb stick or device, and if it works, then it works.
On 2023-07-11 18:05, Karen Lewellen via talk wrote:
Hi folks, What I am seeking is an open source program that tests aspects of say your motherboard. that the serial ports or parallel ports work, that the USB ports are sound etc. I am asking because due to an as of yet not fixed hydro problem in my new apartment, the occasional power surges, even with machines attached to protectors, are causing slight damage to hardware. Need to know how much as I only have so many computers I can use. Any program ideas? Will be sharing suggestions with someone hopefully helping me troubleshoot. Thanks, Karen
--- Post to this mailing list talk@gtalug.org Unsubscribe from this mailing list https://gtalug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
Post to this mailing list talk@gtalug.org Unsubscribe from this mailing list https://gtalug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
On Thu, Jul 13, 2023 at 05:22:07PM -0400, Karen Lewellen via talk wrote:
Thanks for getting back to my question smiles. I believe i have been focused on Motherboards more than the ports for your exact reason, the ports are connection dependent. what about boards themselves?
Unfortunately software can only really test that the registers in the chips are responding as expected. The port on the board may still be damaged and not working even if you can talk to the chip that drives the port. There is often another chip involved between the controller and the port to convert voltage levels (a PHY in the case of a network port or a level converter for a serial port). If that chip is damaged (and if a port has a surge that is the chip most likely to take the damage) then you won't find out other than by trying to use it unfortunately. -- Len Sorensen
On 2023-07-13 17:14, William Park via talk wrote:
However, you can't easily test serial, parallel, USB, network, and other I/Os, because you can't easily control both side of connection.
Actually, when I was a technician for CN Telecommunications, back in the 70s, we had test sets for doing that with serial connections. Of course, these would be connecting different locations, sometimes across the country, not within an office. Later on, there were Bit Error Rate Testers (BERT), for high speed connections.
participants (11)
-
Alvin Starr -
Aurelian Melinte -
D. Hugh Redelmeier -
Don Tai -
James Knott -
Karen Lewellen -
Kevin Cozens -
Lennart Sorensen -
o1bigtenor -
Scott Allen -
William Park