analog land line phone service in Toronto?
Hi folks, Any carrier still provide this as an option? I have moved, with Bell no longer offering analog, only fiberactic which seems to interact with the specialty phone I use due to disability. Thoughts? Karen
Hi Karen, If the problem is that your new location can be served by analog but Bell refuses to sell it, you may have luck with Teksavvy which I use for my home landline. They wholesale the analog service from Bell for a home phone product. On Teksavvy's website at https://www.teksavvy.com/services/phone/ is a Javascript applet into which you enter your postal code and reports back if their service is available. If that doesn't work you can reach them by phone at 1-877-779-1575 Their tech support has been pretty good for me. Even if your new location is served only by fiber and cannot do DSL or analog natively, Teksavvy uses different home routers from Bell, and their offerings may provide digital-to-analog facilities that could be friendlier to your specialized phone. I hope they can help. Evan Leibovitch, Toronto Canada @evanleibovitch / @el56 On Sun, Mar 19, 2023 at 1:05 AM Karen Lewellen via talk <talk@gtalug.org> wrote:
Hi folks, Any carrier still provide this as an option? I have moved, with Bell no longer offering analog, only fiberactic which seems to interact with the specialty phone I use due to disability. Thoughts? Karen
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On 2023-03-19 06:00, Evan Leibovitch via talk wrote:
Even if your new location is served only by fiber and cannot do DSL or analog natively, Teksavvy uses different home routers from Bell, and their offerings may provide digital-to-analog facilities that could be friendlier to your specialized phone.
With Rogers, I get a single box that provides Internet, including IPTV, and home phone. I just connect my phone into a jack on the back. As far as the user is concerned, there's no difference from a regular phone line.
It might be worth investigating an analog to fibe connector. When we tried plugging my special equipment into bell's fibe stuff the results were not pretty. Can respect James's comment about the average user, but an average user is not managing a brain injury. Evan, I did not get your post, but will go back and hunt my inbox. Is your suggestion that techsavvy might have an emulator that might be more friendly to my equipment? On Sun, 19 Mar 2023, James Knott via talk wrote:
On 2023-03-19 06:00, Evan Leibovitch via talk wrote:
Even if your new location is served only by fiber and cannot do DSL or analog natively, Teksavvy uses different home routers from Bell, and their offerings may provide digital-to-analog facilities that could be friendlier to your specialized phone.
With Rogers, I get a single box that provides Internet, including IPTV, and home phone. I just connect my phone into a jack on the back. As far as the user is concerned, there's no difference from a regular phone line.
On 2023-03-19 15:59, Karen Lewellen wrote:
It might be worth investigating an analog to fibe connector. When we tried plugging my special equipment into bell's fibe stuff the results were not pretty. Can respect James's comment about the average user, but an average user is not managing a brain injury. Evan, I did not get your post, but will go back and hunt my inbox. Is your suggestion that techsavvy might have an emulator that might be more friendly to my equipment?
Does your device work with a plain phone line? Then it should work with an emulated POTS line. This is from someone with a half century experience on the tech side of the business. As I mentioned, I'm on Rogers and I have a phone jack on the back of their modem, that provides plain POTS service. I would expect the same from Bell. This is not the same as the VoIP services, where you have to connect an IP phone or adapter to a server.
On Sun, Mar 19, 2023 at 4:00 PM Karen Lewellen via talk <talk@gtalug.org> wrote:
Evan, I did not get your post, but will go back and hunt my inbox. Is your suggestion that techsavvy might have an emulator that might be more friendly to my equipment?
Not quite. I was saying that Teksavvy uses different in-home router equipment than Bell and it might be friendlier to your analog phone. Having said that, I agree with Hugh that it should be Bell's problem and task to ensure that you're able to use your phone on their equipment. Rendering your existing phone non-functional on its new installation may be in violation of AODA. - Evan
On 2023-03-19 17:58, Evan Leibovitch via talk wrote:
Not quite. I was saying that Teksavvy uses different in-home router equipment than Bell and it might be friendlier to your analog phone.
Having said that, I agree with Hugh that it should be Bell's problem and task to ensure that you're able to use your phone on their equipment. Rendering your existing phone non-functional on its new installation may be in violation of AODA.
What is so special about this phone that it can't be used with the emulated POTS service? Has anyone even tried? I am using the same phone I was using over 30 years ago, when it was a real POTS line and I see no difference on Rogers home phone.
As stated when I raised the question, I tried it when the Bell tech installed this frankly modem based mess on Wednesday the day of my move. Not only did it distort sound, but it cut in and out. My edition is less than two years old, although I have used the same phone for many years indeed, it was actually provided as a piece of adaptive technology by my phone provider at the time when I was diagnosed. On Sun, 19 Mar 2023, James Knott via talk wrote:
On 2023-03-19 17:58, Evan Leibovitch via talk wrote:
Not quite. I was saying that Teksavvy uses different in-home router equipment than Bell and it might be friendlier to your analog phone.
Having said that, I agree with Hugh that it should be Bell's problem and task to ensure that you're able to use your phone on their equipment. Rendering your existing phone non-functional on its new installation may be in violation of AODA.
What is so special about this phone that it can't be used with the emulated POTS service? Has anyone even tried? I am using the same phone I was using over 30 years ago, when it was a real POTS line and I see no difference on Rogers home phone.
On Sun, Mar 19, 2023 at 8:20 PM James Knott via talk <talk@gtalug.org> wrote:
What is so special about this phone that it can't be used with the emulated POTS service? Has anyone even tried?
According to the original post, the answer is yes and there are problems.
I am using the same phone I was using over 30 years ago, when it was a real POTS line and I see no difference on Rogers home phone.
"Well, it worked for me" is not very useful for problem solving. - Evan
Ah, thanks for the explanation Evan. You may be correct, especially since Teksavy is still supporting analogue services in general. As for what bell is violating, because phone service falls under cRTC rules, its those rules they are violating. still, if I am forthright, I would rather a solid solution, not a long drawn out fight. I use the phone for work, with complaining not very financially rewarding smiles. Kare On Sun, 19 Mar 2023, Evan Leibovitch wrote:
On Sun, Mar 19, 2023 at 4:00 PM Karen Lewellen via talk <talk@gtalug.org> wrote:
Evan, I did not get your post, but will go back and hunt my inbox. Is your suggestion that techsavvy might have an emulator that might be more friendly to my equipment?
Not quite. I was saying that Teksavvy uses different in-home router equipment than Bell and it might be friendlier to your analog phone.
Having said that, I agree with Hugh that it should be Bell's problem and task to ensure that you're able to use your phone on their equipment. Rendering your existing phone non-functional on its new installation may be in violation of AODA.
- Evan
Hi Evan, I found you! Thanks for this tip. I did phone, and while it may be possible, I will have to get permission from Bell. It seems Teksavy can no longer add a new analog customer. You are right, the infrastructure structure is here, but Bell will not sell it to me. I told a supervisor at Teksavy that I will see about a medical / human rights accommodation request since the infrastructure already exists. Thanks for the tip, Karen On Sun, 19 Mar 2023, Evan Leibovitch wrote:
Hi Karen,
If the problem is that your new location can be served by analog but Bell refuses to sell it, you may have luck with Teksavvy which I use for my home landline. They wholesale the analog service from Bell for a home phone product.
On Teksavvy's website at https://www.teksavvy.com/services/phone/ is a Javascript applet into which you enter your postal code and reports back if their service is available. If that doesn't work you can reach them by phone at 1-877-779-1575 Their tech support has been pretty good for me.
Even if your new location is served only by fiber and cannot do DSL or analog natively, Teksavvy uses different home routers from Bell, and their offerings may provide digital-to-analog facilities that could be friendlier to your specialized phone.
I hope they can help.
Evan Leibovitch, Toronto Canada @evanleibovitch / @el56
On Sun, Mar 19, 2023 at 1:05 AM Karen Lewellen via talk <talk@gtalug.org> wrote:
Hi folks, Any carrier still provide this as an option? I have moved, with Bell no longer offering analog, only fiberactic which seems to interact with the specialty phone I use due to disability. Thoughts? Karen
--- Post to this mailing list talk@gtalug.org Unsubscribe from this mailing list https://gtalug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
On 2023-03-19 01:04, Karen Lewellen via talk wrote:
Hi folks, Any carrier still provide this as an option? I have moved, with Bell no longer offering analog, only fiberactic which seems to interact with the specialty phone I use due to disability. Thoughts? Karen
These days "POTS" is likely emulated over IP, as is my Rogers home phone. Bell is doing the same with Fibe. Third party providers might still have access to copper pairs, but I can't say for sure.
| From: Karen Lewellen via talk <talk@gtalug.org> | Any carrier still provide this as an option? Probably not. Everyone depends on Bell to provide the last mile of copper. If they don't, they don't. I am about to lose my copper landline. Apparently I can keep my old 3rd party DSL but it will be now over a copper "dry loop". Counter-intuitive to me. So much so that I don't 100% trust that this will happen. | I have moved, with Bell no longer offering analog, only fiberactic which seems | to interact with the specialty phone I use due to disability. | Thoughts? The specifications of the new analog port on the digital box are identical to the specifications of the copper line. So it should work. (In your old place, all but your last mile was surely digital.) If it does not work, Bell should make it work for you. They are mandated to make their system accessible. You may have to escalate the problem -- I don't know. But I would guess that you are good at that. Many on this list are prone to try to solve tech problems, even if they should be the vendor's problem. You have experienced this phenomenon. Perhaps the best way to present your problem to Bell is to say: - this accessability aid worked before - it doesn't work now - please help me As a fall-back, ask the device manufacturer. If they still exist, they will probably tell you to buy a new model.
On 3/19/23 14:48, D. Hugh Redelmeier via talk wrote:
| From: Karen Lewellen via talk <talk@gtalug.org>
| Any carrier still provide this as an option?
Probably not. Everyone depends on Bell to provide the last mile of copper. If they don't, they don't.
I am about to lose my copper landline. Apparently I can keep my old 3rd party DSL but it will be now over a copper "dry loop". Counter-intuitive to me. So much so that I don't 100% trust that this will happen.
Not true, when Bell came to rip out my copper, I told them they were not allowed to do that. After 20 minutes of talking to his supervisor he gave me a fiber (and new copper!). I went dry-loop, (teksavvy ate the cost) and I have been completely stable.
| I have moved, with Bell no longer offering analog, only fiberactic which seems | to interact with the specialty phone I use due to disability. | Thoughts?
The specifications of the new analog port on the digital box are identical to the specifications of the copper line. So it should work.
(In your old place, all but your last mile was surely digital.)
If it does not work, Bell should make it work for you. They are mandated to make their system accessible. You may have to escalate the problem -- I don't know. But I would guess that you are good at that.
Many on this list are prone to try to solve tech problems, even if they should be the vendor's problem. You have experienced this phenomenon.
Perhaps the best way to present your problem to Bell is to say: - this accessability aid worked before - it doesn't work now - please help me
As a fall-back, ask the device manufacturer. If they still exist, they will probably tell you to buy a new model. --- Post to this mailing list talk@gtalug.org Unsubscribe from this mailing list https://gtalug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
-- Michael Galea
Hi there, First, I am deeply sorry you are losing your landline soon. I do appreciate your sharing the last mile rule though. What bell is using fiberactic wise is a modem, in which several services reincorporated, not a strict analog connection into a digital box on its own. What Evan suggested via Teksavy may be the ticket, will find out when I speak to bell accessibility in the morning. As for accessibility mandates? search Bell human rights complaint you will discover that right now David Lepofty is fighting Bell at the federal human rights commission..over an issue I raised at the CRTC in 2018. Bell knows human rights have no teeth in Canada, or take a very very very long time to manage change. Kare On Sun, 19 Mar 2023, D. Hugh Redelmeier via talk wrote:
| From: Karen Lewellen via talk <talk@gtalug.org>
| Any carrier still provide this as an option?
Probably not. Everyone depends on Bell to provide the last mile of copper. If they don't, they don't.
I am about to lose my copper landline. Apparently I can keep my old 3rd party DSL but it will be now over a copper "dry loop". Counter-intuitive to me. So much so that I don't 100% trust that this will happen.
| I have moved, with Bell no longer offering analog, only fiberactic which seems | to interact with the specialty phone I use due to disability. | Thoughts?
The specifications of the new analog port on the digital box are identical to the specifications of the copper line. So it should work.
(In your old place, all but your last mile was surely digital.)
If it does not work, Bell should make it work for you. They are mandated to make their system accessible. You may have to escalate the problem -- I don't know. But I would guess that you are good at that.
Many on this list are prone to try to solve tech problems, even if they should be the vendor's problem. You have experienced this phenomenon.
Perhaps the best way to present your problem to Bell is to say: - this accessability aid worked before - it doesn't work now - please help me
As a fall-back, ask the device manufacturer. If they still exist, they will probably tell you to buy a new model. --- Post to this mailing list talk@gtalug.org Unsubscribe from this mailing list https://gtalug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
On Sun, Mar 19, 2023 at 05:30:53PM -0400, Karen Lewellen via talk wrote:
First, I am deeply sorry you are losing your landline soon. I do appreciate your sharing the last mile rule though. What bell is using fiberactic wise is a modem, in which several services reincorporated, not a strict analog connection into a digital box on its own. What Evan suggested via Teksavy may be the ticket, will find out when I speak to bell accessibility in the morning. As for accessibility mandates? search Bell human rights complaint you will discover that right now David Lepofty is fighting Bell at the federal human rights commission..over an issue I raised at the CRTC in 2018. Bell knows human rights have no teeth in Canada, or take a very very very long time to manage change.
Of course in theory it shouldn't make any difference if the conversion from analog to digital happens in the box in your house or at the local bell building. Assuming of course that they implemented it the same way in both placed, which they should, but maybe they didn't. I have seen multiple people claim fax machines work over thair VoIP connection, which surprised me, because I was under the impression that they didn't. Apparently some VoIP systems actually are fully compatible with what the phone system has been doing at the central office and hence work with the exact same equipment as the "analog" phone line did. If hasn't really been that analog for decades after all. -- Len Sorensen
On 2023-03-19 20:54, Lennart Sorensen via talk wrote:
Of course in theory it shouldn't make any difference if the conversion from analog to digital happens in the box in your house or at the local bell building. Assuming of course that they implemented it the same way in both placed, which they should, but maybe they didn't.
I have seen multiple people claim fax machines work over thair VoIP connection, which surprised me, because I was under the impression that they didn't. Apparently some VoIP systems actually are fully compatible with what the phone system has been doing at the central office and hence work with the exact same equipment as the "analog" phone line did. If hasn't really been that analog for decades after all.
Again, what is the problem we're trying to fix? I have heard nothing about why emulated POTS won't work. As far a FAX goes, I heard the same thing, but I've never seen it fail, even though I have installed VoIP PBX, where the customer was still using FAX. A standard toll quality POTS line has a bandwidth of approximately 300 - 3500 Hz. VoIP has no problem meeting that and in fact there is now "HD Voice", where VoIP is superior to POTS. Again, I have worked in telecom for the past half century. Until we know what the issue is, we're just guessing. What specifically is the issue with this equipment???
Have you tried asking bell to make your equipment work with their new phone equipment. There are something like 75 to 100 codecs that can be used with VIOP. It may be that Bell can configure or tune their voip ATA in your home to work with your specialized equipment. On 2023-03-19 17:30, Karen Lewellen via talk wrote:
Hi there, First, I am deeply sorry you are losing your landline soon. I do appreciate your sharing the last mile rule though. What bell is using fiberactic wise is a modem, in which several services reincorporated, not a strict analog connection into a digital box on its own. What Evan suggested via Teksavy may be the ticket, will find out when I speak to bell accessibility in the morning. As for accessibility mandates? search Bell human rights complaint you will discover that right now David Lepofty is fighting Bell at the federal human rights commission..over an issue I raised at the CRTC in 2018. Bell knows human rights have no teeth in Canada, or take a very very very long time to manage change. Kare
On Sun, 19 Mar 2023, D. Hugh Redelmeier via talk wrote:
| From: Karen Lewellen via talk <talk@gtalug.org>
| Any carrier still provide this as an option?
Probably not. Everyone depends on Bell to provide the last mile of copper. If they don't, they don't.
I am about to lose my copper landline. Apparently I can keep my old 3rd party DSL but it will be now over a copper "dry loop". Counter-intuitive to me. So much so that I don't 100% trust that this will happen.
| I have moved, with Bell no longer offering analog, only fiberactic which seems | to interact with the specialty phone I use due to disability. | Thoughts?
The specifications of the new analog port on the digital box are identical to the specifications of the copper line. So it should work.
(In your old place, all but your last mile was surely digital.)
If it does not work, Bell should make it work for you. They are mandated to make their system accessible. You may have to escalate the problem -- I don't know. But I would guess that you are good at that.
Many on this list are prone to try to solve tech problems, even if they should be the vendor's problem. You have experienced this phenomenon.
Perhaps the best way to present your problem to Bell is to say: - this accessability aid worked before - it doesn't work now - please help me
As a fall-back, ask the device manufacturer. If they still exist, they will probably tell you to buy a new model. --- Post to this mailing list talk@gtalug.org Unsubscribe from this mailing list https://gtalug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
--- Post to this mailing list talk@gtalug.org Unsubscribe from this mailing list https://gtalug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
-- Alvin Starr || land: (647)478-6285 Netvel Inc. || Cell: (416)806-0133 alvin@netvel.net ||
On 2023-03-19 22:25, Alvin Starr via talk wrote:
There are something like 75 to 100 codecs that can be used with VIOP.
VoIP is supposed to negotiate the best CODEC available. This is what enables HD Voice. I still haven't heard what the problem is supposed to be. https://teraquant.com/understand-media-sip-session-description-protocol/
That conversation is for tomorrow. When I told the tech what I needed he spoke of headphones. Honestly if he ad shown me what he was installing instead of talking to one of the moving people instead, I would have told them to wait. Certainly hope finding an HDMI video input to RCA output converter will be less complex. Wanted to keep my satellite service but have too many trees here on Kingston Road. Granted Fibe-TV has accessibility issues, but one option they provide is an apple TV 4k. I am not buying a new set, I have production equipment that must connect to it. To be honest I will likely need another work solution as well for interviews. On Sun, 19 Mar 2023, Alvin Starr via talk wrote:
Have you tried asking bell to make your equipment work with their new phone equipment. There are something like 75 to 100 codecs that can be used with VIOP. It may be that Bell can configure or tune their voip ATA in your home to work with your specialized equipment.
On 2023-03-19 17:30, Karen Lewellen via talk wrote:
Hi there, First, I am deeply sorry you are losing your landline soon. I do appreciate your sharing the last mile rule though. What bell is using fiberactic wise is a modem, in which several services reincorporated, not a strict analog connection into a digital box on its own. What Evan suggested via Teksavy may be the ticket, will find out when I speak to bell accessibility in the morning. As for accessibility mandates? search Bell human rights complaint you will discover that right now David Lepofty is fighting Bell at the federal human rights commission..over an issue I raised at the CRTC in 2018. Bell knows human rights have no teeth in Canada, or take a very very very long time to manage change. Kare
On Sun, 19 Mar 2023, D. Hugh Redelmeier via talk wrote:
| From: Karen Lewellen via talk <talk@gtalug.org>
| Any carrier still provide this as an option?
Probably not. Everyone depends on Bell to provide the last mile of copper. If they don't, they don't.
I am about to lose my copper landline. Apparently I can keep my old 3rd party DSL but it will be now over a copper "dry loop". Counter-intuitive to me. So much so that I don't 100% trust that this will happen.
| I have moved, with Bell no longer offering analog, only fiberactic which seems | to interact with the specialty phone I use due to disability. | Thoughts?
The specifications of the new analog port on the digital box are identical to the specifications of the copper line. So it should work.
(In your old place, all but your last mile was surely digital.)
If it does not work, Bell should make it work for you. They are mandated to make their system accessible. You may have to escalate the problem -- I don't know. But I would guess that you are good at that.
Many on this list are prone to try to solve tech problems, even if they should be the vendor's problem. You have experienced this phenomenon.
Perhaps the best way to present your problem to Bell is to say: - this accessability aid worked before - it doesn't work now - please help me
As a fall-back, ask the device manufacturer. If they still exist, they will probably tell you to buy a new model. --- Post to this mailing list talk@gtalug.org Unsubscribe from this mailing list https://gtalug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
--- Post to this mailing list talk@gtalug.org Unsubscribe from this mailing list https://gtalug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
-- Alvin Starr || land: (647)478-6285 Netvel Inc. || Cell: (416)806-0133 alvin@netvel.net ||
--- Post to this mailing list talk@gtalug.org Unsubscribe from this mailing list https://gtalug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
Evan Leibovitch, Toronto Canada @evanleibovitch / @el56 On Sun, Mar 19, 2023 at 11:49 PM Karen Lewellen via talk <talk@gtalug.org> wrote:
Certainly hope finding an HDMI video input to RCA output converter will be less complex.
Would one of these work? https://www.amazon.ca/CYSINGC-Composite-Converter-Nintendo-Chromecast/dp/B0B... https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001547380522.html https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005003352572835.html - Evan
participants (7)
-
Alvin Starr -
D. Hugh Redelmeier -
Evan Leibovitch -
James Knott -
Karen Lewellen -
Lennart Sorensen -
Michael Galea