Hey Everyone, These came up recently on the list and coincidentally there's a great Youtuber (Techmoan) who just did a piece on the devices, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g0jECuwrn_U It's approached as a gadget guy, so no deep dives, but he demos it and gets into a bit of the history and the warts of the aging machines. Interestingly he adds that he's planning future videos on "more recent takes on the same concept" Cool stuff. Mike
On Sat., May 29, 2021, 07:37 Mike Kallies via talk, <talk@gtalug.org> wrote:
It's approached as a gadget guy, so no deep dives, but he demos it and gets into a bit of the history and the warts of the aging machines.
He's the only person I've seen demo one who included and commented on the recognition wait time. Kurzweil was more of a demo showman than would admit the machine wasn't perfect. Cheers Stewart
Stewart Granted, I have used these for many years, and am rather good at the brightness level adjustments, but, when properly trained, the recognition wait time is less than 15 seconds depending on the material being scanned. Which is the key, there are options for different kinds of materials, books hardback or paperback, newspapers, magazines, etc. Also, if one does not change the column setting it adds time while the machine looks for a column that might not be there. Still, recognition gets faster once the machine learns what it is examining, so if this source claims it takes a while, someone did not fully do their homework speaking personally. Karen On Sat, 29 May 2021, Stewart Russell via talk wrote:
On Sat., May 29, 2021, 07:37 Mike Kallies via talk, <talk@gtalug.org> wrote:
It's approached as a gadget guy, so no deep dives, but he demos it and gets into a bit of the history and the warts of the aging machines.
He's the only person I've seen demo one who included and commented on the recognition wait time. Kurzweil was more of a demo showman than would admit the machine wasn't perfect.
Cheers Stewart
On 2021-05-29 6:48 p.m., Karen Lewellen via talk wrote: ...
Still, recognition gets faster once the machine learns what it is examining, so if this source claims it takes a while, someone did not ... Very interesting. He probably simply didn't know and wasn't able to spend long enough with the machine to learn this.
In playing around he got some rap lyrics in there and some 2001 script, so he seems to have given it at least a good hacking about. A shame he missed the learning aspect, but he's not so much a product reviewer as giving a glimpse at an interesting bit of technology history, and mostly to an audience who's never worked with such a tool. He also didn't explain how he got his hands on one of the devices. Mike
Hi Mike ...Rap lyrics..I need to do that just for fun laughs! Thanks for the explanation, I cannot use YouTube these days due to Google's changes where lower graphics tools are concerned. Hey, at least he is showcasing the gem. Karen On Mon, 31 May 2021, Mike Kallies via talk wrote:
On 2021-05-29 6:48 p.m., Karen Lewellen via talk wrote: ...
Still, recognition gets faster once the machine learns what it is examining, so if this source claims it takes a while, someone did not ... Very interesting. He probably simply didn't know and wasn't able to spend long enough with the machine to learn this.
In playing around he got some rap lyrics in there and some 2001 script, so he seems to have given it at least a good hacking about.
A shame he missed the learning aspect, but he's not so much a product reviewer as giving a glimpse at an interesting bit of technology history, and mostly to an audience who's never worked with such a tool.
He also didn't explain how he got his hands on one of the devices.
Mike
--- Post to this mailing list talk@gtalug.org Unsubscribe from this mailing list https://gtalug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
On Mon, May 31, 2021 at 03:49:03PM -0400, Karen Lewellen via talk wrote:
Hi Mike ...Rap lyrics..I need to do that just for fun laughs! Thanks for the explanation, I cannot use YouTube these days due to Google's changes where lower graphics tools are concerned. Hey, at least he is showcasing the gem.
Would you be able to play the video if someone downloaded it from youtube and saved it as a plain video file you could download? -- Len Sorensen
no, Previously I could from shellworld use YouTube dL, I believe we have a second option too, convert the video to either mp3 or m4a, and get the audio that way. It was a dance, but I did it for work related things. now, or at least last I checked with our admin, YouTube is less friendly to third party command line tools. besides, Mike gave me enough of an idea that I doubt I would gain much from actually accessing the presentation directly. Thanks for the idea though! Kare On Mon, 31 May 2021, Lennart Sorensen wrote:
On Mon, May 31, 2021 at 03:49:03PM -0400, Karen Lewellen via talk wrote:
Hi Mike ...Rap lyrics..I need to do that just for fun laughs! Thanks for the explanation, I cannot use YouTube these days due to Google's changes where lower graphics tools are concerned. Hey, at least he is showcasing the gem.
Would you be able to play the video if someone downloaded it from youtube and saved it as a plain video file you could download?
-- Len Sorensen
On Mon, May 31, 2021 at 05:30:35PM -0400, Karen Lewellen via talk wrote:
no, Previously I could from shellworld use YouTube dL, I believe we have a second option too, convert the video to either mp3 or m4a, and get the audio that way. It was a dance, but I did it for work related things. now, or at least last I checked with our admin, YouTube is less friendly to third party command line tools. besides, Mike gave me enough of an idea that I doubt I would gain much from actually accessing the presentation directly. Thanks for the idea though!
Well youtube-dl still works fine whenever I use it, so that should still be fine. And it has arguments to only download the audio part if that is all you want. For example: youtube-dl -f 140 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g0jECuwrn_U That downloads an m4a audio track only. About 12MB in size. -- Len Sorensen
On Mon, May 31, 2021 at 05:58:45PM -0400, Lennart Sorensen via talk wrote:
On Mon, May 31, 2021 at 05:30:35PM -0400, Karen Lewellen via talk wrote:
no, Previously I could from shellworld use YouTube dL, I believe we have a second option too, convert the video to either mp3 or m4a, and get the audio that way.
[snip]
Well youtube-dl still works fine whenever I use it, so that should still
[snip]
youtube-dl -f 140 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g0jECuwrn_U
And, if your instance of yt-dl is out-of-date and poutube serves you some errors, "youtube-dl -U" will update your instance for you. Here's a brief description from https://github.com/ytdl-org/youtube-dl/blob/master/README.md#options --- begin documentation quote --- -U or --update Updates the youtube-dl program to its latest version. Make sure that you have sufficient permissions (run with sudo if needed). --- end documentation quote --- Are you sure you don't want to hear the Reading Edge rap? :) -- Znoteer znoteer@mailbox.org
Hi, While I deeply appreciate both of our input, a couple of factors that impact my situation. First, I referenced shellworld, a shell service to which I subscribe, because I personally cannot run Linux. There is no current Linux distribution with a screen reading program that can talk to my reading edge, which serves as my speech synthesizer. Second, because this is a service, I have no control over what edition of YouTube dl is run by the administrator. I can tell you shellworld is not a graphical desktop, meaning Lynx, or at most links which can incorporate some java is used. Again your expertise is, as always, appreciated...but unless you can match my environment some mileage factors vary a great great deal. That reminds me to start a thread asking why graphical Linux desktops cannot speak to hardware serial ports. I imagine other things are involved , but I do wonder. Cheers, Karen On Mon, 31 May 2021, Znoteer wrote:
On Mon, May 31, 2021 at 05:58:45PM -0400, Lennart Sorensen via talk wrote:
On Mon, May 31, 2021 at 05:30:35PM -0400, Karen Lewellen via talk wrote:
no, Previously I could from shellworld use YouTube dL, I believe we have a second option too, convert the video to either mp3 or m4a, and get the audio that way.
[snip]
Well youtube-dl still works fine whenever I use it, so that should still
[snip]
youtube-dl -f 140 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g0jECuwrn_U
And, if your instance of yt-dl is out-of-date and poutube serves you some errors,
"youtube-dl -U"
will update your instance for you. Here's a brief description from
https://github.com/ytdl-org/youtube-dl/blob/master/README.md#options
--- begin documentation quote --- -U or --update
Updates the youtube-dl program to its latest version. Make sure that you have sufficient permissions (run with sudo if needed). --- end documentation quote ---
Are you sure you don't want to hear the Reading Edge rap? :)
-- Znoteer znoteer@mailbox.org
On Mon, May 31, 2021 at 06:32:48PM -0400, Znoteer via talk wrote:
And, if your instance of yt-dl is out-of-date and poutube serves you some errors,
"youtube-dl -U"
will update your instance for you. Here's a brief description from
https://github.com/ytdl-org/youtube-dl/blob/master/README.md#options
--- begin documentation quote --- -U or --update
Updates the youtube-dl program to its latest version. Make sure that you have sufficient permissions (run with sudo if needed). --- end documentation quote ---
Are you sure you don't want to hear the Reading Edge rap? :)
Well at least my version doesn't have a -U option, which is good, since I would expect Debian (Well DMO rather than Debian in this case) to have removed that kind of misfeature from a program. -- Len Sorensen
Forgot to answer one. Yes, I do want to hear my reading edge rap, but there is for me an easier way. In anticipation of Hamilton in the movie theatre, did not happen due to covid *sniff* I got a copy of a transcript file. In fact it may be fun to discover which raps better, the edge itself, or the screen reader. So, I need only print a page from the transcript choose from one of the 9 voice possibilities, and let it boogie. Kare On Tue, 1 Jun 2021, Lennart Sorensen via talk wrote:
On Mon, May 31, 2021 at 06:32:48PM -0400, Znoteer via talk wrote:
And, if your instance of yt-dl is out-of-date and poutube serves you some errors,
"youtube-dl -U"
will update your instance for you. Here's a brief description from
https://github.com/ytdl-org/youtube-dl/blob/master/README.md#options
--- begin documentation quote --- -U or --update
Updates the youtube-dl program to its latest version. Make sure that you have sufficient permissions (run with sudo if needed). --- end documentation quote ---
Are you sure you don't want to hear the Reading Edge rap? :)
Well at least my version doesn't have a -U option, which is good, since I would expect Debian (Well DMO rather than Debian in this case) to have removed that kind of misfeature from a program.
-- Len Sorensen --- Post to this mailing list talk@gtalug.org Unsubscribe from this mailing list https://gtalug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
On Tue, Jun 01, 2021 at 01:06:24PM -0400, Karen Lewellen via talk wrote: [snip]
In fact it may be fun to discover which raps better, the edge itself, or the screen reader. So, I need only print a page from the transcript choose from one of the 9 voice possibilities, and let it boogie. Kare
That sounds like fun! If you do it, please share the output :) -- Znoteer znoteer@mailbox.org
On Tue, 1 Jun 2021, Lennart Sorensen via talk wrote:
On Mon, May 31, 2021 at 06:32:48PM -0400, Znoteer via talk wrote:
And, if your instance of yt-dl is out-of-date and poutube serves you some errors,
"youtube-dl -U"
will update your instance for you. Here's a brief description from
https://github.com/ytdl-org/youtube-dl/blob/master/README.md#options
--- begin documentation quote --- -U or --update
Updates the youtube-dl program to its latest version. Make sure that you have sufficient permissions (run with sudo if needed). --- end documentation quote ---
Are you sure you don't want to hear the Reading Edge rap? :)
On 2021-06-01 10:00 a.m., Lennart Sorensen via talk wrote:
On Mon, May 31, 2021 at 06:32:48PM -0400, Znoteer via talk wrote:
And, if your instance of yt-dl is out-of-date and poutube serves you some errors,
"youtube-dl -U"
will update your instance for you. Here's a brief description from
https://github.com/ytdl-org/youtube-dl/blob/master/README.md#options
--- begin documentation quote --- -U or --update
Updates the youtube-dl program to its latest version. Make sure that you have sufficient permissions (run with sudo if needed). --- end documentation quote ---
Are you sure you don't want to hear the Reading Edge rap? :)
Well at least my version doesn't have a -U option, which is good, since I would expect Debian (Well DMO rather than Debian in this case) to have removed that kind of misfeature from a program.
Lennart, I'm fascinated by your characterization of a program's self updating as a misfeature. In youtube-dl's case, this is a necessary feature, due to the rapidly changing nature of it's targets. Video host deliberately don't supply any stable API to download videos from, and tools like youtube-dl are day-to-day arms race with the sites to keep them working. When I worked back at the VFX studio it was common practice to be downloading videos to add as reference material artists would use to understand what they were animating (so many dolphin videos...). But the versions of youtube-dl would regularly break if your on a long term stable like CentOS or an EoL Fedora (we had both). So granting a sudo policy to let the editors do an update of the application with -U when youtube broke the application was essential in our case. I understand that it creates a different channel of trust, outside the distros, but in the case of 'it breaks regularly with no upgrade path from the distro' vs 'managed by upstream developers which your trusting anyways', I see this as the exception that proves the rule. -- Scott Sullivan
Lennart Sorensen via talk wrote:
Well youtube-dl still works fine whenever I use it, so that should still be fine. ...
You'd be on Debian Sid as I recall. Likewise it's good on Gentoo, but youtube-dl needs to be fairly up-to-date as the underlying Youtube service and the tool change frequently, so you need to be on a forward-leaning distro. It's not going to do as well on Debian stable or anything like that. -- Anthony de Boer
On Mon, May 31, 2021 at 07:47:58PM -0400, Anthony de Boer via talk wrote:
You'd be on Debian Sid as I recall. Likewise it's good on Gentoo, but youtube-dl needs to be fairly up-to-date as the underlying Youtube service and the tool change frequently, so you need to be on a forward-leaning distro. It's not going to do as well on Debian stable or anything like that.
Well it's on DMO not Debian itself. So upgrades happen faster. -- Len Sorensen
Granted YouTube is not a platform I can reach, but that makes me happy. The technology established the bar for ocr which speaking personally, has not been matched. may keep this link in case the source knows where I can find a spare. My spare got damaged, and I let a friend's son try to repair it with unfortunate results. Karen On Sat, 29 May 2021, Mike Kallies via talk wrote:
Hey Everyone, These came up recently on the list and coincidentally there's a great Youtuber (Techmoan) who just did a piece on the devices,
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g0jECuwrn_U
It's approached as a gadget guy, so no deep dives, but he demos it and gets into a bit of the history and the warts of the aging machines.
Interestingly he adds that he's planning future videos on "more recent takes on the same concept"
Cool stuff.
Mike --- Post to this mailing list talk@gtalug.org Unsubscribe from this mailing list https://gtalug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
participants (7)
-
Anthony de Boer -
Karen Lewellen -
lsorense＠csclub.uwaterloo.ca -
Mike Kallies -
Scott Sullivan -
Stewart Russell -
Znoteer