I'm discarding an old notebook!
I have an Acer Aspire 9300 that I bought in 2007. I cannot get it to be useful. The problem is (mostly) with drivers for the NVidia Go 6100 video. - nVidia stopped supporting this in the proprietary Linux driver. - nouveau is unreliable https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=46557 - using the generic video driver just doesn't cut it. Darn NVidia! If they released specs, I think nouveau would work. There seems to be some bug related to more than 2G of RAM (a lot in 2007). But that's not the whole story. Other than that, the machine is functional. Oh: Windows 10 goes into a slow failure loop if you try to install it. (The computer came with Vista. Not safe to use these days.) The machine would not be fast but it would be useable for many tasks if it worked! It has a 64-bit AMD Turion processor. This was before AMD bought ATI; the "chipset" was made by NVidia.
15 year old notebook. Will no version of Linux work? That's sad. I have desktops much older than that that can run puppy Linux. On Fri, 11 Feb 2022 at 22:44, D. Hugh Redelmeier via talk <talk@gtalug.org> wrote:
I have an Acer Aspire 9300 that I bought in 2007. I cannot get it to be useful. The problem is (mostly) with drivers for the NVidia Go 6100 video.
- nVidia stopped supporting this in the proprietary Linux driver.
- nouveau is unreliable https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=46557
- using the generic video driver just doesn't cut it.
Darn NVidia! If they released specs, I think nouveau would work. There seems to be some bug related to more than 2G of RAM (a lot in 2007). But that's not the whole story.
Other than that, the machine is functional.
Oh: Windows 10 goes into a slow failure loop if you try to install it. (The computer came with Vista. Not safe to use these days.)
The machine would not be fast but it would be useable for many tasks if it worked! It has a 64-bit AMD Turion processor. This was before AMD bought ATI; the "chipset" was made by NVidia. --- Post to this mailing list talk@gtalug.org Unsubscribe from this mailing list https://gtalug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
| From: Don Tai via talk <talk@gtalug.org> | 15 year old notebook. Will no version of Linux work? That's sad. I have | desktops much older than that that can run puppy Linux. I can run it with the kernel option "modprobe.blacklist=nouveau". Then the screen resolution is 1024x768 instead of 1440x900. And that option slows down the already slow machine. The nouveau driver almost works. But when it fails, it corrupts the screen and eventually seems to lock up the machine. As I said, I blame NVidia. They lost interest in providing the proprietary driver and they didn't provide specifications sufficient for the nouveau driver to reliably function.
That's sad. You could try running an external monitor. I'd give up on Linux and run Win. I have found few use cases where I've given up on linux. Sometimes linux runs slower than win, but not often. I still have a 2002 Dell netbook running WinXP specifically for Chinese social media QQ. No email or secure stuff. The only browser that I can find that still runs is Opera, which is also Chinese owned. The system is completely isolated, and I expect it to get hacked. On Sat, 12 Feb 2022 at 11:37, D. Hugh Redelmeier via talk <talk@gtalug.org> wrote:
| From: Don Tai via talk <talk@gtalug.org>
| 15 year old notebook. Will no version of Linux work? That's sad. I have | desktops much older than that that can run puppy Linux.
I can run it with the kernel option "modprobe.blacklist=nouveau". Then the screen resolution is 1024x768 instead of 1440x900. And that option slows down the already slow machine.
The nouveau driver almost works. But when it fails, it corrupts the screen and eventually seems to lock up the machine.
As I said, I blame NVidia. They lost interest in providing the proprietary driver and they didn't provide specifications sufficient for the nouveau driver to reliably function. --- Post to this mailing list talk@gtalug.org Unsubscribe from this mailing list https://gtalug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
| From: Don Tai via talk <talk@gtalug.org> | That's sad. You could try running an external monitor. An external monitor doesn't (normally) bypass the video card so it doesn't bypass my driver problem. | I'd give up on Linux | and run Win. That doesn't work either. I mentioned earlier that installing Win 10 fails for unknown reasons. It gets stuck in this loop: - something went wrong, but don't worry, just give me an internet connection and I'll do updates. That should fix it. - time passes The biggest problem is that NVidia stopped supporting the video controller on Windows some time ago (before Win 10). Just like on Linux. The hardest problems, on Windows and Linux, are from NVidia. - not releasing new video drivers - not releasing sufficient specs to enable the open source driver to work - (probably) a bug in the video hardware when system has more than 2G of RAM | I still have a 2002 Dell netbook running WinXP specifically for Chinese | social media QQ. No email or secure stuff. The only browser that I can find | that still runs is Opera, which is also Chinese owned. The system is | completely isolated, and I expect it to get hacked. Wow. The first thing I called a netbook was the Asus Eee PC from late 2007. The same era as my Acer Aspire 9300 that we're talking about.
"Wow. The first thing I called a netbook was the Asus Eee PC from late 2007. The same era as my Acer Aspire 9300 that we're talking about." That's exactly what I have! Don't run W10, but W XP! On Sun, 13 Feb 2022 at 14:36, D. Hugh Redelmeier via talk <talk@gtalug.org> wrote:
| From: Don Tai via talk <talk@gtalug.org>
| That's sad. You could try running an external monitor.
An external monitor doesn't (normally) bypass the video card so it doesn't bypass my driver problem.
| I'd give up on Linux | and run Win.
That doesn't work either. I mentioned earlier that installing Win 10 fails for unknown reasons. It gets stuck in this loop:
- something went wrong, but don't worry, just give me an internet connection and I'll do updates. That should fix it.
- time passes
The biggest problem is that NVidia stopped supporting the video controller on Windows some time ago (before Win 10). Just like on Linux.
The hardest problems, on Windows and Linux, are from NVidia. - not releasing new video drivers - not releasing sufficient specs to enable the open source driver to work - (probably) a bug in the video hardware when system has more than 2G of RAM
| I still have a 2002 Dell netbook running WinXP specifically for Chinese | social media QQ. No email or secure stuff. The only browser that I can find | that still runs is Opera, which is also Chinese owned. The system is | completely isolated, and I expect it to get hacked.
Wow. The first thing I called a netbook was the Asus Eee PC from late 2007. The same era as my Acer Aspire 9300 that we're talking about. --- Post to this mailing list talk@gtalug.org Unsubscribe from this mailing list https://gtalug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
Correction, no I don't have an Asus Eee PC running.It is broken, but a Dell inspiron 1011, Intel Atom 1.6Ghz On Sun, 13 Feb 2022 at 14:50, Don Tai <dontai.canada@gmail.com> wrote:
"Wow. The first thing I called a netbook was the Asus Eee PC from late 2007. The same era as my Acer Aspire 9300 that we're talking about."
That's exactly what I have! Don't run W10, but W XP!
On Sun, 13 Feb 2022 at 14:36, D. Hugh Redelmeier via talk <talk@gtalug.org> wrote:
| From: Don Tai via talk <talk@gtalug.org>
| That's sad. You could try running an external monitor.
An external monitor doesn't (normally) bypass the video card so it doesn't bypass my driver problem.
| I'd give up on Linux | and run Win.
That doesn't work either. I mentioned earlier that installing Win 10 fails for unknown reasons. It gets stuck in this loop:
- something went wrong, but don't worry, just give me an internet connection and I'll do updates. That should fix it.
- time passes
The biggest problem is that NVidia stopped supporting the video controller on Windows some time ago (before Win 10). Just like on Linux.
The hardest problems, on Windows and Linux, are from NVidia. - not releasing new video drivers - not releasing sufficient specs to enable the open source driver to work - (probably) a bug in the video hardware when system has more than 2G of RAM
| I still have a 2002 Dell netbook running WinXP specifically for Chinese | social media QQ. No email or secure stuff. The only browser that I can find | that still runs is Opera, which is also Chinese owned. The system is | completely isolated, and I expect it to get hacked.
Wow. The first thing I called a netbook was the Asus Eee PC from late 2007. The same era as my Acer Aspire 9300 that we're talking about. --- Post to this mailing list talk@gtalug.org Unsubscribe from this mailing list https://gtalug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
| From: Don Tai via talk <talk@gtalug.org> | Correction, no I don't have an Asus Eee PC running.It is broken, but a Dell | inspiron 1011, Intel Atom 1.6Ghz The Inspiron 1011 seems to also have been called the Inspiron Mini 10v. It was probably introduced in 2008 (since that's when its CPU was introduced), not 2002. I assume that you didn't get the Nickelodeon Slime Edition of this netbook. That would be interesting. In 2010, I remotely bought my son a Inspiron Mini 10 - 1012 (he was studying in Texas). It had a 1366x768 pixel display! It also had a Crystal HD Broadcom Media Accelerator, which turned out to be a bit of a bust. But the real failing was that it overheated a lot.
thanks for the correction, 2008. I still have the original box. The netbook was given to me because WinXP was constipated with viruses, haha. It originally ran like molasses in a Canadian winter. On Sun, 13 Feb 2022 at 16:32, D. Hugh Redelmeier via talk <talk@gtalug.org> wrote:
| From: Don Tai via talk <talk@gtalug.org>
| Correction, no I don't have an Asus Eee PC running.It is broken, but a Dell | inspiron 1011, Intel Atom 1.6Ghz
The Inspiron 1011 seems to also have been called the Inspiron Mini 10v. It was probably introduced in 2008 (since that's when its CPU was introduced), not 2002.
I assume that you didn't get the Nickelodeon Slime Edition of this netbook. That would be interesting.
In 2010, I remotely bought my son a Inspiron Mini 10 - 1012 (he was studying in Texas). It had a 1366x768 pixel display! It also had a Crystal HD Broadcom Media Accelerator, which turned out to be a bit of a bust. But the real failing was that it overheated a lot. --- Post to this mailing list talk@gtalug.org Unsubscribe from this mailing list https://gtalug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
I've been shamed / intrigued into doing a bit more hacking on this Acer Aspire 9300 notebook. Spoiler: this was a waste of time. A little over 5 years ago I had replaced the HDD with an SSD and put a then-current Fedora (24?) on it (no Windows). It was unreliable (for reasons I have previously explained). Now I've dragged out the old HDD and copied the Vista and Ubuntu 12.04 installation from it to the SSD. (Byte-for-byte, so the partition alignments are highly questionable.) MS Vista boots. It doesn't know how to update itself (End of Life). Ubuntu 12.04 boots. It doesn't know how to update itself either since it is no longer supported. I fix that (somewhat) by hacking on /etc/apt/sources.list, replacing ca.archive.ubuntu.com with old-releases.ubuntu.com. The newest update there was probably two years ago, but that's better than more than 5 years ago. While doing Ubuntu updates, the machine crashed a couple of times. Probably because it is using the nouveau video driver. I wonder if I can enable the ancient no-longer supported proprietary driver at this late date? Even if I can, apparently that path dies after Ubuntu 14.04 so it isn't really a solution. Back on Windows Vista, I tried updating Firefox. A very slow process, but it seemed to complete (but not to the current version; possibly because Vista is no longer supported). I ran Firefox's update again and got a blue screen (OS crash, not Firefox crash). At this point, I saw very little upside and had wasted a lot of time getting this far. I cannot run current Windows 10 or current Linux. So I've given up. I've stripped the SSD, the RAM, the WiFi card, and the DVD drive. ================ Now I'm wasting time updating the three OSes on my Acer Aspire One 522, a netbook from 2011 (Fedora, Ubuntu, Win10). <https://www.notebookcheck.net/Acer-Aspire-One-522.46975.0.html> This is a very meagre machine: slow even in its day. But it does run current systems. When I got it, I upgraded the RAM from 1G to 4G. Win 7 Starter was crippled to use at most 2G (silly Microsoft market segregation games). The screen had too little resolution to install Win 8, but full Win 10 Home is happy (a free upgrade; it will use all 4G). The netbook still has its original HDD. Win 10 and Gnome both crawl unless they live on SSDs. I intend to replace the HDD with the SSD from the scrapped notebook. Just a few years separate the Acer Aspire 9300 and the Acer Aspire One 522. Yet the newer one is more usable now. Still, the newer one is missing some modern conveniences: UEFI firmware and USB 3.x. There is a significant difference between a 17" notebook and a 10.6" netbook.
I'm running Win XP SP3 and Opera 36.0 on my Dell 1011. Opera does not crash too often, haha. Firefox won't run, but you could try an older version. That's a lot of work for such an old biddy. I think it best to use an OS that is close to the age of the machine and be done with it. Use it as a non-secure browser. I tend to not put much time into tweaking old machines. They either run or I move on to another OS. Really, there are few choices. I am confident that Puppy Linux will run. On Tue, 15 Feb 2022 at 17:24, D. Hugh Redelmeier via talk <talk@gtalug.org> wrote:
I've been shamed / intrigued into doing a bit more hacking on this Acer Aspire 9300 notebook.
Spoiler: this was a waste of time.
A little over 5 years ago I had replaced the HDD with an SSD and put a then-current Fedora (24?) on it (no Windows). It was unreliable (for reasons I have previously explained).
Now I've dragged out the old HDD and copied the Vista and Ubuntu 12.04 installation from it to the SSD. (Byte-for-byte, so the partition alignments are highly questionable.)
MS Vista boots. It doesn't know how to update itself (End of Life).
Ubuntu 12.04 boots. It doesn't know how to update itself either since it is no longer supported. I fix that (somewhat) by hacking on /etc/apt/sources.list, replacing ca.archive.ubuntu.com with old-releases.ubuntu.com. The newest update there was probably two years ago, but that's better than more than 5 years ago.
While doing Ubuntu updates, the machine crashed a couple of times. Probably because it is using the nouveau video driver. I wonder if I can enable the ancient no-longer supported proprietary driver at this late date? Even if I can, apparently that path dies after Ubuntu 14.04 so it isn't really a solution.
Back on Windows Vista, I tried updating Firefox. A very slow process, but it seemed to complete (but not to the current version; possibly because Vista is no longer supported). I ran Firefox's update again and got a blue screen (OS crash, not Firefox crash).
At this point, I saw very little upside and had wasted a lot of time getting this far. I cannot run current Windows 10 or current Linux. So I've given up. I've stripped the SSD, the RAM, the WiFi card, and the DVD drive.
================
Now I'm wasting time updating the three OSes on my Acer Aspire One 522, a netbook from 2011 (Fedora, Ubuntu, Win10). <https://www.notebookcheck.net/Acer-Aspire-One-522.46975.0.html> This is a very meagre machine: slow even in its day. But it does run current systems.
When I got it, I upgraded the RAM from 1G to 4G. Win 7 Starter was crippled to use at most 2G (silly Microsoft market segregation games). The screen had too little resolution to install Win 8, but full Win 10 Home is happy (a free upgrade; it will use all 4G).
The netbook still has its original HDD. Win 10 and Gnome both crawl unless they live on SSDs. I intend to replace the HDD with the SSD from the scrapped notebook.
Just a few years separate the Acer Aspire 9300 and the Acer Aspire One 522. Yet the newer one is more usable now. Still, the newer one is missing some modern conveniences: UEFI firmware and USB 3.x.
There is a significant difference between a 17" notebook and a 10.6" netbook. --- Post to this mailing list talk@gtalug.org Unsubscribe from this mailing list https://gtalug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
YMMV, but for old system installations I try for one of three approaches: - For your usual distro, choose a GUI environment that starts with L or X instead of G or K (ie Lubuntu or Xubuntu) - Try one of the small distros designed explicitly for use on old hardware (such as Puppy) - Screw the GUI completely and install Ubuntu Server All of them should be OK with the SSD. Evan Leibovitch, Toronto Canada @evanleibovitch / @el56 On Tue, Feb 15, 2022 at 5:25 PM D. Hugh Redelmeier via talk <talk@gtalug.org> wrote:
I've been shamed / intrigued into doing a bit more hacking on this Acer Aspire 9300 notebook.
Spoiler: this was a waste of time.
A little over 5 years ago I had replaced the HDD with an SSD and put a then-current Fedora (24?) on it (no Windows). It was unreliable (for reasons I have previously explained).
Now I've dragged out the old HDD and copied the Vista and Ubuntu 12.04 installation from it to the SSD. (Byte-for-byte, so the partition alignments are highly questionable.)
MS Vista boots. It doesn't know how to update itself (End of Life).
Ubuntu 12.04 boots. It doesn't know how to update itself either since it is no longer supported. I fix that (somewhat) by hacking on /etc/apt/sources.list, replacing ca.archive.ubuntu.com with old-releases.ubuntu.com. The newest update there was probably two years ago, but that's better than more than 5 years ago.
While doing Ubuntu updates, the machine crashed a couple of times. Probably because it is using the nouveau video driver. I wonder if I can enable the ancient no-longer supported proprietary driver at this late date? Even if I can, apparently that path dies after Ubuntu 14.04 so it isn't really a solution.
Back on Windows Vista, I tried updating Firefox. A very slow process, but it seemed to complete (but not to the current version; possibly because Vista is no longer supported). I ran Firefox's update again and got a blue screen (OS crash, not Firefox crash).
At this point, I saw very little upside and had wasted a lot of time getting this far. I cannot run current Windows 10 or current Linux. So I've given up. I've stripped the SSD, the RAM, the WiFi card, and the DVD drive.
================
Now I'm wasting time updating the three OSes on my Acer Aspire One 522, a netbook from 2011 (Fedora, Ubuntu, Win10). <https://www.notebookcheck.net/Acer-Aspire-One-522.46975.0.html> This is a very meagre machine: slow even in its day. But it does run current systems.
When I got it, I upgraded the RAM from 1G to 4G. Win 7 Starter was crippled to use at most 2G (silly Microsoft market segregation games). The screen had too little resolution to install Win 8, but full Win 10 Home is happy (a free upgrade; it will use all 4G).
The netbook still has its original HDD. Win 10 and Gnome both crawl unless they live on SSDs. I intend to replace the HDD with the SSD from the scrapped notebook.
Just a few years separate the Acer Aspire 9300 and the Acer Aspire One 522. Yet the newer one is more usable now. Still, the newer one is missing some modern conveniences: UEFI firmware and USB 3.x.
There is a significant difference between a 17" notebook and a 10.6" netbook. --- Post to this mailing list talk@gtalug.org Unsubscribe from this mailing list https://gtalug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
On 2022-02-15 5:24 p.m., D. Hugh Redelmeier via talk wrote:
I've been shamed / intrigued into doing a bit more hacking on this Acer Aspire 9300 notebook.
Spoiler: this was a waste of time.
Here's a possibility: https://www.pcmag.com/news/with-flex-google-aims-to-bring-chrome-os-to-old-windows-pcs-macs?utm_source=email&utm_campaign=whatsnewnow&utm_medium=title
Google OS flex system requirements: https://www.pcworld.com/article/614720/google-chrome-os-flex-turns-old-pcs-i... "You’ll need a USB key with 8GB or more. PCs will need at least 4GB of RAM and 16GB of storage. The CPU restrictions are more lenient: You’ll need a 64-bit CPU, period. Which is basically any processor made after the year 2000. There are GPU restrictions, though: Intel GMA 500, 600, 3600, and 3650 graphics hardware do not meet Chrome OS Flex performance standards" On Wed, 16 Feb 2022 at 11:59, James Knott via talk <talk@gtalug.org> wrote:
On 2022-02-15 5:24 p.m., D. Hugh Redelmeier via talk wrote:
I've been shamed / intrigued into doing a bit more hacking on this Acer Aspire 9300 notebook.
Spoiler: this was a waste of time.
Here's a possibility:
https://www.pcmag.com/news/with-flex-google-aims-to-bring-chrome-os-to-old-windows-pcs-macs?utm_source=email&utm_campaign=whatsnewnow&utm_medium=title --- Post to this mailing list talk@gtalug.org Unsubscribe from this mailing list https://gtalug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
| From: Don Tai via talk <talk@gtalug.org> | Google OS flex system requirements: | https://www.pcworld.com/article/614720/google-chrome-os-flex-turns-old-pcs-i... | | "You’ll need a USB key with 8GB or more. PCs will need at least 4GB of RAM | and 16GB of storage. The CPU restrictions are more lenient: You’ll need a | 64-bit CPU, period. Which is basically any processor made after the year | 2000. There are GPU restrictions, though: Intel GMA 500, 600, 3600, and | 3650 graphics hardware do not meet Chrome OS Flex performance standards" The NVidia Go 6100 is unlikely to be supported by Google ChromeOS Flex since it is unsupported by NVidia and by Linux's Nouveau. On the other hand, I suspect that it could meet the performance standard. I'm pretty sure that the notebook could run DOS. Or act as a headless Linux server. Neither of these appeals to me.
D. Hugh Redelmeier via talk wrote:
I'm pretty sure that the notebook could run DOS. Or act as a headless Linux server. Neither of these appeals to me.
The one big upside there is the integrated UPS! ;-) -- Anthony de Boer
haha! Unless the battery, after 10 years, is non-functional. In my case, it is 15 years. On Wed, 16 Feb 2022 at 14:38, Anthony de Boer via talk <talk@gtalug.org> wrote:
D. Hugh Redelmeier via talk wrote:
I'm pretty sure that the notebook could run DOS. Or act as a headless Linux server. Neither of these appeals to me.
The one big upside there is the integrated UPS! ;-)
-- Anthony de Boer --- Post to this mailing list talk@gtalug.org Unsubscribe from this mailing list https://gtalug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
On 2022-02-15 17:24, D. Hugh Redelmeier via talk wrote:
Acer Aspire 9300
AMD Turion 64 X2 - so, roughly half of a Raspberry Pi 4. but it has a screen, keyboard, and you actually have it - unlike a Raspberry Pi 4
| From: Stewart C. Russell via talk <talk@gtalug.org> | AMD Turion 64 X2 - so, roughly half of a Raspberry Pi 4. | | but it has a screen, keyboard, and you actually have it - unlike a Raspberry | Pi 4 Good points. I just saw this site: <https://rpilocator.com/> Note: prices are in local currency. Pi supply issues seem to be extreme. I would like to think that they are drawing down inventory for a Pi Day announcement. That seems to be an unlikely reason when so many models are OOS.
On Thu., Feb. 17, 2022, 10:29 D. Hugh Redelmeier via talk, <talk@gtalug.org> wrote:
I would like to think that they are drawing down inventory for a Pi Day announcement. That seems to be an unlikely reason when so many models are OOS.
No, it's not that (and believe me, as an AR, I have to be very careful what I say). Such is the demand for 2-8 GB Raspberry Pi's, they sell out in minutes when any supplier gets stock. There's a whole QAnon-like thing around the mythical Raspberry Pi 5. I've heard people claim that the worldwide chip shortage has somehow been engineered by Raspberry Pi Trading so we'll all be forced to buy the Raspberry Pi 5 when it comes out. I wish I were making this up ... Stewart
D. Hugh Redelmeier via talk wrote:
... Other than that, the machine is functional.
I have an even older notebook with a 32-bit Atom processor. It used to be useful, but after upgrading to the latest (Debian Bullseye) Firefox barely starts and is glacial enough to be totally unusable. Older Firefox did run reasonably on that hardware, but software keeps assuming better hardware as it grows. There may be roles like serial console or network debugger for a box like that. Or stick with an older Linux contemporary to the hardware; sometimes bits of old software need an older libc or such and it can be handy to have a retro-system in reach. -- Anthony de Boer
| From: Anthony de Boer via talk <talk@gtalug.org> | I have an even older notebook with a 32-bit Atom processor. Are you sure that it is older? The Atom was introduced in 2008, the year after I bought my notebook. The first Asus Eee PC preceded the Atom and used Intel Celeron M procesors. | It used to be | useful, but after upgrading to the latest (Debian Bullseye) Firefox | barely starts and is glacial enough to be totally unusable. Older | Firefox did run reasonably on that hardware, but software keeps assuming | better hardware as it grows. | | There may be roles like serial console or network debugger for a box | like that. Or stick with an older Linux contemporary to the hardware; | sometimes bits of old software need an older libc or such and it can be | handy to have a retro-system in reach. Stop giving me excuses to keep it :-) Browsers seem to continuously get hungrier but I actually think that it is insane web developers who eat my systems.
participants (7)
-
Anthony de Boer -
D. Hugh Redelmeier -
Don Tai -
Evan Leibovitch -
James Knott -
Stewart C. Russell -
Stewart Russell