Greetings I tend to work on quite a number of different things if not at the same time then in quite short order. So far most projects will get some notes or phone call references or other information jotted down on paper. Over time this means that I all too often tend to redo things - - - sometimes to improvement but sometimes I don't know where the previous work is so I'm looking or I'm redoing. So I'm looking at collecting things like contact information (and their value/area etc etc), project ideas, info sources, project planning, project design parameters, project components all of which hopefully results in some in the end. Have been trying to use taskwarrior and its a decent reminder system but the storage of all the other 'stuff' isn't there. Been trying to just save things into a folder (that's not so useful when information is applicable to multiple projects). Has anyone found a 'reasonable' system that would effect this less than simple 'idea'? TIA
On Tue, 8 Dec 2020 at 12:41, o1bigtenor via talk <talk@gtalug.org> wrote:
I tend to work on quite a number of different things if not at the same time then in quite short order. So far most projects will get some notes or phone call references or other information jotted down on paper. Over time this means that I all too often tend to redo things - - - sometimes to improvement but sometimes I don't know where the previous work is so I'm looking or I'm redoing.
So I'm looking at collecting things like contact information (and their value/area etc etc), project ideas, info sources, project planning, project design parameters, project components all of which hopefully results in some in the end.
Have been trying to use taskwarrior and its a decent reminder system but the storage of all the other 'stuff' isn't there. Been trying to just save things into a folder (that's not so useful when information is applicable to multiple projects).
Has anyone found a 'reasonable' system that would effect this less than simple 'idea'?
If you're a Vim user, I highly recommend vimwiki: https://github.com/vimwiki/vimwiki . I live and die by NeoVim, and spend every day with multiple sessions open across multiple machines. I store my vimwiki in git, which allows me to sync it across all those machines while managing potential data collisions. I use a number of Vim plugins, but vimwiki is probably the one I use the most ... unless you count gitgutter. :-) If you're not a Vim user, I imagine there's an equivalent for Emacs. If not Emacs, there are many, many personal wikis. I've used and liked the JavaScript-and-browser-based Tiddlywiki (although I haven't touched it in years, so not sure of its current status - https://tiddlywiki.com/ ). It had the interesting property of all being stored entirely in one file, but easily searchable and displaying in bite-sized chunks as if it were many wiki pages. Using a wiki and its associated mark-up language and commands takes some time to adjust to, but it sounds like a good way to address the problem you're outlining so it would probably be worth it? And while git is annoying, it's a great way to sync data across machines without data collisions. I hope this helps. -- Giles https://www.gilesorr.com/ gilesorr@gmail.com
On 2020-12-08 5:23 p.m., Giles Orr via talk wrote:
If you're a Vim user, I highly recommend vimwiki: https://github.com/vimwiki/vimwiki . I live and die by NeoVim, and spend every day with multiple sessions open across multiple machines.
I'll look up the information vimwiki out of curiousity. The wiki I have been using to keep various notes about things is dokuwiki. It is more than good enough for my uses and it doesn't require use of a database so it is easy to setup, and light on use of system resources. -- Cheers! Kevin. http://www.ve3syb.ca/ | "Nerds make the shiny things that https://www.patreon.com/KevinCozens | distract the mouth-breathers, and | that's why we're powerful" Owner of Elecraft K2 #2172 | #include <disclaimer/favourite> | --Chris Hardwick
On Tue, Dec 8, 2020 at 8:54 PM Kevin Cozens via talk <talk@gtalug.org> wrote:
On 2020-12-08 5:23 p.m., Giles Orr via talk wrote:
If you're a Vim user, I highly recommend vimwiki: https://github.com/vimwiki/vimwiki . I live and die by NeoVim, and spend every day with multiple sessions open across multiple machines.
I'll look up the information vimwiki out of curiousity. The wiki I have been using to keep various notes about things is dokuwiki. It is more than good enough for my uses and it doesn't require use of a database so it is easy to setup, and light on use of system resources.
Have looked at both vimwiki and docuwiki but am not sure about jumping on either band wagon. My projects are not just written material - - - a project may include CADD, spreadsheets, jpgs, text, pdfs, rarely videos and maybe even some other information types that I'm forgetting at the moment. I don't think that I'm expecting to save everything so its all totally visible in whatever 'info system' I decide to use but would want to have some way of connecting the location of whatever documents back into that system. I want to thank both of you for your ideas. It seems something like one of these could work but I'm not sure about the connecting files back into either of these. At least I can't see an easy way of doing such. Regards
On Wed, 2020/12/09 06:58:14AM -0600, o1bigtenor via talk <talk@gtalug.org> wrote: | I want to thank both of you for your ideas. It seems something like one | of these could work but I'm not sure about the connecting files back into | either of these. At least I can't see an easy way of doing such. In dokuwiki, as in almost all wikis, you can easily link to any URL. Or, you can easily upload copies of media (images, documents, etc) and refer to them from any page.
I have same problem as you. VimWiki, DocuWiki... My eyes hurt. Sometimes, I'm the one creating the content. So, I'll accept the hassle of typing associated markups. Sometimes, others created the files, doc, exls, txt, jpg, mov, etc. Eg. Sequence of screenshots on how to install something, nicely annotated and arrowed. So, I just want to say, "To install this, follow <step 1>, <step 2>, ..." where steps are links to files I got. Then, I should be able to add my own content, eg. "in step 2, make sure to check for ...". Sometimes, it's full document. Other times, it's just short snippet, screenshot trimmed down, cut/paste, etc. So, I'm looking for sort of file manager, - where I can add/delete text, links, files, not just on the local filesystem, but on the app itself. - where I can organize/reorganize orders or structures.. - etc. -- William Park <opengeometry@yahoo.ca> On Wed, Dec 09, 2020 at 06:58:14AM -0600, o1bigtenor via talk wrote:
On Tue, Dec 8, 2020 at 8:54 PM Kevin Cozens via talk <talk@gtalug.org> wrote:
On 2020-12-08 5:23 p.m., Giles Orr via talk wrote:
If you're a Vim user, I highly recommend vimwiki: https://github.com/vimwiki/vimwiki . I live and die by NeoVim, and spend every day with multiple sessions open across multiple machines.
I'll look up the information vimwiki out of curiousity. The wiki I have been using to keep various notes about things is dokuwiki. It is more than good enough for my uses and it doesn't require use of a database so it is easy to setup, and light on use of system resources.
Have looked at both vimwiki and docuwiki but am not sure about jumping on either band wagon.
My projects are not just written material - - - a project may include CADD, spreadsheets, jpgs, text, pdfs, rarely videos and maybe even some other information types that I'm forgetting at the moment.
I don't think that I'm expecting to save everything so its all totally visible in whatever 'info system' I decide to use but would want to have some way of connecting the location of whatever documents back into that system.
I want to thank both of you for your ideas. It seems something like one of these could work but I'm not sure about the connecting files back into either of these. At least I can't see an easy way of doing such.
On Thu, Dec 10, 2020 at 5:11 PM William Park via talk <talk@gtalug.org> wrote:
I have same problem as you. VimWiki, DocuWiki... My eyes hurt.
Sometimes, I'm the one creating the content. So, I'll accept the hassle of typing associated markups.
Sometimes, others created the files, doc, exls, txt, jpg, mov, etc. Eg. Sequence of screenshots on how to install something, nicely annotated and arrowed. So, I just want to say, "To install this, follow <step 1>, <step 2>, ..." where steps are links to files I got. Then, I should be able to add my own content, eg. "in step 2, make sure to check for ...".
Sometimes, it's full document. Other times, it's just short snippet, screenshot trimmed down, cut/paste, etc.
So, I'm looking for sort of file manager, - where I can add/delete text, links, files, not just on the local filesystem, but on the app itself. - where I can organize/reorganize orders or structures.. - etc.
It would seem that we share a fairly similar problem. I arrived at knowledge based systems but it seems that means that one is jus working from a script - - - the most common iteration of such that I could find. Seems like I've got the classic problem outlined - - - -argh. You know the one - - - - there are some 30+ pictures of a rubber tire tree swing all of which don't really work each of which has been authorized by a different department. The customer just wanted a simple tire swing. Oh well - - - the search continues! Thanks for the ideas. Regards
On Tue, Dec 08, 2020 at 05:23:55PM -0500, Giles Orr via talk wrote:
If you're not a Vim user, I imagine there's an equivalent for Emacs.
The 800# gorilla of emacs organizational tools seems to be org-mode. How that compares with vimwiki or anything else discussed so far in this thread, I'm not certain. Of the stuff mentioned, it certainly doesn't incorporate directly files of myriad filetypes, though emacs can be used to navigate amongst files in a directory. As with most of this, it depends on how deeply you invest in learning the tools and matching up its affordances with your needs and preferences. I mostly use org-mode for editing tables and spreadsheets, but I know people use it for much more than that, including calendar management, time tracking, reminders, to-do lists, and so on. Another tool for organizing in-the-large a set of files that, collectively, are too big to add and manage within a git repo directly is git-annex. The general idea, so far as I understand it, is to manage a collection of symlinks to files on the front end, while dialing in the right mix between redundancy (having all the files on all the sites) and sparseness (having only the files required on any given site). I've only dabbled in using this one--I began learning git so that I could use git-annex. I use the heck out of git now but never got back around to git-annex, though it remains on my "one of these days" queue. My current practice is to keep a series of directories on topics, with one main metafile in each directory mostly plain text with some light Markdown. In the file I try to make note of what I'm doing in the directory over time. I might, for instance, paste the URL through which I downloaded a PDF stored elsewhere in the directory, for instance. I'll track this metafile, and other files in the directory as applicable, as a git repository. In the case of a downloaded PDF, I'd probably exclude it from the repo via a line in ./.gitignore This is an old, complex problem with at least as many answers as their are people searching for solutions: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commonplace_book
On Sun, Dec 13, 2020 at 3:23 PM D. Joe via talk <talk@gtalug.org> wrote:
On Tue, Dec 08, 2020 at 05:23:55PM -0500, Giles Orr via talk wrote:
If you're not a Vim user, I imagine there's an equivalent for Emacs.
The 800# gorilla of emacs organizational tools seems to be org-mode.
How that compares with vimwiki or anything else discussed so far in this thread, I'm not certain. Of the stuff mentioned, it certainly doesn't incorporate directly files of myriad filetypes, though emacs can be used to navigate amongst files in a directory. As with most of this, it depends on how deeply you invest in learning the tools and matching up its affordances with your needs and preferences. I mostly use org-mode for editing tables and spreadsheets, but I know people use it for much more than that, including calendar management, time tracking, reminders, to-do lists, and so on.
A friend, now deceased, was a severe emacs aficionado - - - - he said that most anything can be done in emacs but suggested that I stay clear - - - - grin.
Another tool for organizing in-the-large a set of files that, collectively, are too big to add and manage within a git repo directly is git-annex. The general idea, so far as I understand it, is to manage a collection of symlinks to files on the front end, while dialing in the right mix between redundancy (having all the files on all the sites) and sparseness (having only the files required on any given site). I've only dabbled in using this one--I began learning git so that I could use git-annex. I use the heck out of git now but never got back around to git-annex, though it remains on my "one of these days" queue.
Interesting - - - - time for some more looking!
My current practice is to keep a series of directories on topics, with one main metafile in each directory mostly plain text with some light Markdown. In the file I try to make note of what I'm doing in the directory over time. I might, for instance, paste the URL through which I downloaded a PDF stored elsewhere in the directory, for instance. I'll track this metafile, and other files in the directory as applicable, as a git repository. In the case of a downloaded PDF, I'd probably exclude it from the repo via a line in ./.gitignore
This is an old, complex problem with at least as many answers as their are people searching for solutions:
It would seem that most of the solutions available are somewhat limiting. To bad that there wasn't one that really had almost no limits and that one could use that environment as one wished. Oh well - - - here's hoping!
I do believe that you've found the closest solution yet! (Beeg grin!) Except I'm trying to keep things on the puter cause its easier to search there - - - - even if not really easy! Thanks for the ideas!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Regards
I have no solution to propose, but it looks like you need a graph database, vs a more traditional relational database. Independent tools used in different orders and situations. There are several versions of graph databases, but as I have no need I've not researched them. Graph databases have nodes and edges. The edges allow you to define relationships between nodes, in a much more organic way. Your graph database can then be rendered in a 3d model, which is always cool to see. You should still be able to do a linear keyword search when you wish a specific node/skill. Don On Tue, 8 Dec 2020 at 12:41, o1bigtenor via talk <talk@gtalug.org> wrote:
Greetings
I tend to work on quite a number of different things if not at the same time then in quite short order. So far most projects will get some notes or phone call references or other information jotted down on paper. Over time this means that I all too often tend to redo things - - - sometimes to improvement but sometimes I don't know where the previous work is so I'm looking or I'm redoing.
So I'm looking at collecting things like contact information (and their value/area etc etc), project ideas, info sources, project planning, project design parameters, project components all of which hopefully results in some in the end.
Have been trying to use taskwarrior and its a decent reminder system but the storage of all the other 'stuff' isn't there. Been trying to just save things into a folder (that's not so useful when information is applicable to multiple projects).
Has anyone found a 'reasonable' system that would effect this less than simple 'idea'?
TIA --- Post to this mailing list talk@gtalug.org Unsubscribe from this mailing list https://gtalug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
On 2020-12-08 12:40 p.m., o1bigtenor via talk wrote:
Has anyone found a 'reasonable' system that would effect this less than simple 'idea'?
"Reasonable" is quite subjective. What's reasonable for me might be downright paltry for other people. Things I've found out: * indexing written notes is hard: you have to manually add metadata to find it again. The same goes for scanned photos. Digital photos are a little better, as at least they have a capture date. * distributing your ability to "find stuff" across several computers/devices is hard. It will require work to upload it to one central repository. This will have to become part of your routine if you need to rely on it * online tools don't necessarily stick. I used WorkFlowy (an online outliner) for a while, and I still have a useful project database there, but I keep forgetting about it. MindMup was quite cool too, until you really needed to start paying for it to access basic features. * for me - an untidy person - what works is -- file dates ("I worked on this in September") -- side associations ("I listened to the album by The ___ when I worked on this, so it must've been around …") -- saved shell histories (I'm not quite at the stage of aliasing cd to a command that appends to a local history file, but I'm close - the number of projects I've reconstructed through saved history is beyond countable) -- the desktop's indexer (like Tracker, Spotlight, Windows Search). I can't live without this. A system without this isn't one I'd choose to use. Yes, they chew CPU and storage but they remember! everything! for! you! Maybe my findings aren't worth much, though. I recently found two independent reimplementations of exactly the same project roughly two years apart on my system … as I was about to implement precisely the same thing for the third time. Stewart
On Wed, Dec 9, 2020 at 12:42 PM Stewart C. Russell via talk <talk@gtalug.org> wrote:
On 2020-12-08 12:40 p.m., o1bigtenor via talk wrote:
Has anyone found a 'reasonable' system that would effect this less than simple 'idea'?
"Reasonable" is quite subjective. What's reasonable for me might be downright paltry for other people.
snip
Maybe my findings aren't worth much, though. I recently found two independent reimplementations of exactly the same project roughly two years apart on my system … as I was about to implement precisely the same thing for the third time.
Ditto - - - - - that's why I think its time to find something to pull stuff together - - - - somehow. There isn't enough time to keep squandering it doing things 2 or 3 or evn 4 times!! Regards
On 09/12/2020 13.42, Stewart C. Russell via talk wrote:
On 2020-12-08 12:40 p.m., o1bigtenor via talk wrote:
Has anyone found a 'reasonable' system that would effect this less than simple 'idea'?
"Reasonable" is quite subjective. What's reasonable for me might be downright paltry for other people.
Things I've found out:
* indexing written notes is hard: you have to manually add metadata to find it again. The same goes for scanned photos. Digital photos are a little better, as at least they have a capture date.
* distributing your ability to "find stuff" across several computers/devices is hard. It will require work to upload it to one central repository. This will have to become part of your routine if you need to rely on it
* online tools don't necessarily stick. I used WorkFlowy (an online outliner) for a while, and I still have a useful project database there, but I keep forgetting about it. MindMup was quite cool too, until you really needed to start paying for it to access basic features.
* for me - an untidy person - what works is
-- file dates ("I worked on this in September")
-- side associations ("I listened to the album by The ___ when I worked on this, so it must've been around …")
-- saved shell histories (I'm not quite at the stage of aliasing cd to a command that appends to a local history file, but I'm close - the number of projects I've reconstructed through saved history is beyond countable)
laughing, in .bashrc.. I have PROMPT_COMMAND="history -a ~/.bash_history" So I Save each command right after it has been executed, not at the end of the session. This interleaves the history from multiple sessions and prevents loss in the event of crashes.
-- the desktop's indexer (like Tracker, Spotlight, Windows Search). I can't live without this. A system without this isn't one I'd choose to use. Yes, they chew CPU and storage but they remember! everything! for! you!
Maybe my findings aren't worth much, though. I recently found two independent reimplementations of exactly the same project roughly two years apart on my system … as I was about to implement precisely the same thing for the third time.
For me, this translates into not writing code I have already written. To prevent this I: - record the locations where code Ive written resides and index it. I then use a search tool (a la grep) that searches the index. - wrote a curses based script that writes scripts based on checked selections of what code snippets and packaged libraries to include.
Stewart --- Post to this mailing list talk@gtalug.org Unsubscribe from this mailing list https://gtalug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
-- Michael Galea
On Wed, Dec 9, 2020 at 6:14 PM Michael Galea via talk <talk@gtalug.org> wrote:
On 09/12/2020 13.42, Stewart C. Russell via talk wrote:
On 2020-12-08 12:40 p.m., o1bigtenor via talk wrote:
Has anyone found a 'reasonable' system that would effect this less than simple 'idea'?
"Reasonable" is quite subjective. What's reasonable for me might be downright paltry for other people.
snip
laughing, in .bashrc.. I have PROMPT_COMMAND="history -a ~/.bash_history" So I Save each command right after it has been executed, not at the end of the session. This interleaves the history from multiple sessions and prevents loss in the event of crashes.
-- the desktop's indexer (like Tracker, Spotlight, Windows Search). I can't live without this. A system without this isn't one I'd choose to use. Yes, they chew CPU and storage but they remember! everything! for! you!
Maybe my findings aren't worth much, though. I recently found two independent reimplementations of exactly the same project roughly two years apart on my system … as I was about to implement precisely the same thing for the third time.
For me, this translates into not writing code I have already written. To prevent this I: - record the locations where code Ive written resides and index it. I then use a search tool (a la grep) that searches the index. - wrote a curses based script that writes scripts based on checked selections of what code snippets and packaged libraries to include.
This is very much in the direction where I'm headed except your goal is primarily involved with 'text' - - - - yes its programming but its still largely text (of a form anyway) where I need to add a lot of other things. Thanks for the idea though !! Regards
A quarter century ago, I heard of "Lifestreams" as the future of this. It seems to be pretty dead, but not a terrible idea. <http://www.cs.yale.edu/homes/freeman/lifestreams.html> Gelernter (co-inventor?) is pretty interesting. - victim of Unibomber - weirdly kind of right-wing - inventor of "Linda", a model for parallel programming - apparently very pro "intelectual property" <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Gelernter> Somehow this was part of a product of Scopeware software from Mirror Worlds Technologies Inc. Most known for suing a bunch of companies and winning (briefly, it turns out) US$625.5M from Apple. See also this old blog entry: <https://lifestreamblog.com/about/>
On Sun, Dec 13, 2020 at 5:11 PM D. Hugh Redelmeier via talk <talk@gtalug.org> wrote:
A quarter century ago, I heard of "Lifestreams" as the future of this. It seems to be pretty dead, but not a terrible idea. <http://www.cs.yale.edu/homes/freeman/lifestreams.html>
Gelernter (co-inventor?) is pretty interesting. - victim of Unibomber - weirdly kind of right-wing - inventor of "Linda", a model for parallel programming - apparently very pro "intelectual property"
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Gelernter>
Somehow this was part of a product of Scopeware software from Mirror Worlds Technologies Inc. Most known for suing a bunch of companies and winning (briefly, it turns out) US$625.5M from Apple.
Apple can afford a LOT of lawyers - - - - it isn't going to lose very much nor very often!
See also this old blog entry: <https://lifestreamblog.com/about/>
Some very interesting information. Most of the info is directed towards a cubical liver who is worried about activity and weight. The idea expanded to include a lot of doing might just possibly work. The idea of video logging everything is for me a waste of bandwidth. There are times that such video snippets would be useful but the effort to cull the rest - - - - likely not going to happen here. Thanks for a nudge in a different direction. Regards
You might find Stewart's GTALUG talk from three years ago useful. "A Bit More Than Mostly Searchable: Scanned Paper You Can Find" <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EH_txB_hJWw>
On Mon, Dec 14, 2020 at 9:42 AM D. Hugh Redelmeier via talk <talk@gtalug.org> wrote:
You might find Stewart's GTALUG talk from three years ago useful. "A Bit More Than Mostly Searchable: Scanned Paper You Can Find"
--- Post to this mailing list talk@gtalug.org Unsubscribe from this mailing list https://gtalug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EH_txB_hJWw>
An interesting enough 'talk'. Almost wet myself when he started moaning about Fraktur - - - - I learnt how to read the handwritten version many many years ago but today am quite out of practice. The people where that was their only written capability are all long gone now. Fraktur gets quite interesting - - - - - especially when you include some of the differences from somewhere in the 1600s to the late 1940s when the 'Latin' form of typesetting took over. If you want to research anything that was printed in German and the stuff was published before circa 1945 you do need to get comfortable with it or you're going to be sol trying to read it. What I'm doing is trying to organize something as I'm creating it - - - - I'm thinking that the very old 'Common place book' is maybe a reasonable take off point. Mr Hugh - - - - was very interested in scanning the documents and that was the bulk of his presentation. Would have loved to as questions about easy storage systems and indexing but those will have to keep. Thanks for the suggestion Regards
On 2020-12-14 1:24 p.m., o1bigtenor via talk wrote:
Almost wet myself when he started moaning about Fraktur - - - -
And by that, I meant Sütterlinschrift — I couldn't remember the name, and now the more I think about it, it's a Kurrent variant, not Fraktur. Though talking of Fraktur: Tesseract is amazingly good at recognizing Fraktur. Google got a lot of research cash to digitize old German municipal records. cheers, Stewart
On Mon, Dec 14, 2020 at 10:14 PM Stewart C. Russell via talk <talk@gtalug.org> wrote:
On 2020-12-14 1:24 p.m., o1bigtenor via talk wrote:
Almost wet myself when he started moaning about Fraktur - - - -
And by that, I meant Sütterlinschrift — I couldn't remember the name, and now the more I think about it, it's a Kurrent variant, not Fraktur.
The individuals that used this script were not, by today's standards anyway, highly educated likely having at most 6 years of formal education. What is fascinating to me is that you could actually use OCR on both their script and those that used the newer script forms - - - - the handwriting was just that consistent. Unlike today a great hand was considered the mark of an educated person.
Though talking of Fraktur: Tesseract is amazingly good at recognizing Fraktur. Google got a lot of research cash to digitize old German municipal records.
Moving 250 to 400 years worth of records was far easier with usable tools. As you mentioned in your talk - - - there is little support for other typescripts. That's too bad!! I commented on your reaction to Fraktur largely because in the past short time I've heard Fraktur repeated described as 'unreadable' which is anything but true. Was an interesting talk - - - - thought the audience interaction was also quite useful although much of that was not easy to understand - - - perhaps that has changed subsequently? Regards
participants (10)
-
D. Hugh Redelmeier -
D. Joe -
Don Tai -
Giles Orr -
John Sellens -
Kevin Cozens -
Michael Galea -
o1bigtenor -
Stewart C. Russell -
William Park