Before answering this Russel sending it to the list where it clearly belongs? ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Sat, 3 Apr 2021 08:35:19 -0400 From: Russell Reiter <rreiter91@gmail.com> To: Karen Lewellen <klewellen@shellworld.net> Cc: Dhaval Giani via talk <talk@gtalug.org>, Dhaval Giani <dhaval.giani@gmail.com> Subject: Re: [GTALUG] Surveillance Capitalism [was another thread] On Fri, Apr 2, 2021 at 11:07 PM Karen Lewellen <klewellen@shellworld.net> wrote:

folks, Keeping with the in context process.

You are correct, context is important.

On Fri, 2 Apr 2021, Dhaval Giani via talk wrote:

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Again, I say this again. RMS as a contributor, yes. RMS as a leader,

no.

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I am not going to step into your Godwin's law discussion (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin%27s_law ). It is irrelevant to the issue at hand.

That wasn't my discussion. I'm talking about Surveillance capitalism, which grows more important to me day by day. I just think there is a lot of shooting the messenger with RMS.

Then this thread should prove to you exactly why RMS cannot be your messenger. You could be 100% factual, but it is what the other side receives is of greater importance. Your cause is lost, when your messenger causes your message to be lost.

This is absolutely correct. I had no idea who rms was until the current discussion. Within ten minutes I came across an open letter demanding that the free software foundation's entire board step down and that rms be removed. This letter linked to gathered details about rms, not hearsay, but direct posts with links from his own website, where he suggests that a women get an abortion should she learn her child will have downs syndrome.

In Canada and elsewhere abortion is legal. This was the result of feminist activisim and the doctors who agreed that in some cases it is best to terminate a pregnancy. However abortinon is now universally available here, no questions asked, if a woman wants one.

And that laws against under age sex are wrong if the child is willing.

In Canada the age of consent is 16, absent positions of trust and even lower if both are in the 13 to 16 age group. I won't restate the rules for you, I'll just link to them. https://www.justice.gc.ca/eng/rp-pr/other-autre/clp/faq.html Here is what Stallman actually said. "I think it is morally absurd to define 'rape' in a way that depends on minor details such as which country it was in or whether the victim was 18 years old or 17," Stallman wrote. https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2019/09/richard-stallman-leaves-mit-afte... Certainly, there were comments about the ways associates have enabled rms,

working around his stance and behavior. but that paled when his own words called into question why I, as an outsider to he subject, should give any weight to his opinion...about anything. I will take your word that he is a talented coder, contributing much to the free software movement. Such does not make him a suitable leader, if one cannot stop wondering how he can make such statements about human beings, and their right to be born.

We are all entitled to our own opinion, however it's hard to formulate an honest opinion if the facts are dishonest. Just my take, Karen

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Russell