Need to buy a new laptop, any recommendations? Any good outlets that deliver?
I've had a couple of Asus and Lenovo models that have never done me wrong. Acer ... generally cheaper, for a reason. Canada Computer is now doing $8 flat rate shipping. Best Buy and Amazon may also have good deals, shop around for what you want. And of course Lenovo and Dell have their own e-commerce websites. On Wed, 22 Apr 2020 at 10:57, Gron Arthur via talk <talk@gtalug.org> wrote:
Need to buy a new laptop, any recommendations? Any good outlets that deliver? --- Post to this mailing list talk@gtalug.org Unsubscribe from this mailing list https://gtalug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
-- Evan Leibovitch, Toronto Canada @evanleibovitch or @el56
Before you make the final decision I always look for repair videos on your model, if possible. See how difficult it is to take apart. Can memory be added? Can you replace the battery easily? Laptops are more difficult to repair, so I plan ahead. Something in the future will always need a repair. Don On Wed, 22 Apr 2020 at 11:06, Evan Leibovitch via talk <talk@gtalug.org> wrote:
I've had a couple of Asus and Lenovo models that have never done me wrong.
Acer ... generally cheaper, for a reason.
Canada Computer is now doing $8 flat rate shipping. Best Buy and Amazon may also have good deals, shop around for what you want. And of course Lenovo and Dell have their own e-commerce websites.
On Wed, 22 Apr 2020 at 10:57, Gron Arthur via talk <talk@gtalug.org> wrote:
Need to buy a new laptop, any recommendations? Any good outlets that deliver? --- Post to this mailing list talk@gtalug.org Unsubscribe from this mailing list https://gtalug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
-- Evan Leibovitch, Toronto Canada @evanleibovitch or @el56 --- Post to this mailing list talk@gtalug.org Unsubscribe from this mailing list https://gtalug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
I think some parameters may help. What do you want to run on it O/S, use cases ? How much memory do you need/want? CPU's ? Dave Cramer On Wed, 22 Apr 2020 at 11:10, Don Tai via talk <talk@gtalug.org> wrote:
Before you make the final decision I always look for repair videos on your model, if possible. See how difficult it is to take apart. Can memory be added? Can you replace the battery easily? Laptops are more difficult to repair, so I plan ahead. Something in the future will always need a repair.
Don
On Wed, 22 Apr 2020 at 11:06, Evan Leibovitch via talk <talk@gtalug.org> wrote:
I've had a couple of Asus and Lenovo models that have never done me wrong.
Acer ... generally cheaper, for a reason.
Canada Computer is now doing $8 flat rate shipping. Best Buy and Amazon may also have good deals, shop around for what you want. And of course Lenovo and Dell have their own e-commerce websites.
On Wed, 22 Apr 2020 at 10:57, Gron Arthur via talk <talk@gtalug.org> wrote:
Need to buy a new laptop, any recommendations? Any good outlets that deliver? --- Post to this mailing list talk@gtalug.org Unsubscribe from this mailing list https://gtalug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
-- Evan Leibovitch, Toronto Canada @evanleibovitch or @el56 --- Post to this mailing list talk@gtalug.org Unsubscribe from this mailing list https://gtalug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
--- Post to this mailing list talk@gtalug.org Unsubscribe from this mailing list https://gtalug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
On Wed, Apr 22, 2020 at 11:10:27AM -0400, Don Tai via talk wrote:
Before you make the final decision I always look for repair videos on your model, if possible. See how difficult it is to take apart. Can memory be added? Can you replace the battery easily? Laptops are more difficult to repair, so I plan ahead. Something in the future will always need a repair.
That's an excellent suggestion. Thanks Don [snip]
On Wed, 22 Apr 2020 at 10:57, Gron Arthur via talk <talk@gtalug.org> wrote:
Need to buy a new laptop, any recommendations? Any good outlets that deliver?
-- Znoteer znoteer@mailbox.org
Thanks for suggestions, especially the checking repair videos. I also forgot that I can buy from the manufacturer's website, and was jumping straight into Amazon. On Wed, Apr 22, 2020 at 11:35 AM Znoteer via talk <talk@gtalug.org> wrote:
On Wed, Apr 22, 2020 at 11:10:27AM -0400, Don Tai via talk wrote:
Before you make the final decision I always look for repair videos on your model, if possible. See how difficult it is to take apart. Can memory be added? Can you replace the battery easily? Laptops are more difficult to repair, so I plan ahead. Something in the future will always need a repair.
That's an excellent suggestion. Thanks Don
[snip]
On Wed, 22 Apr 2020 at 10:57, Gron Arthur via talk <talk@gtalug.org> wrote:
Need to buy a new laptop, any recommendations? Any good outlets that deliver?
-- Znoteer znoteer@mailbox.org --- Post to this mailing list talk@gtalug.org Unsubscribe from this mailing list https://gtalug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
On Wed, Apr 22, 2020 at 02:49:05PM -0400, Gron Arthur via talk wrote:
Thanks for suggestions, especially the checking repair videos. I also forgot that I can buy from the manufacturer's website, and was jumping straight into Amazon.
In addition to videos, check if the service manual is available. At least for thinkpads they generally have been and are very well written. -- Len Sorensen
On Wed, Apr 22, 2020 at 09:42:43AM -0400, Gron Arthur via talk wrote:
Need to buy a new laptop, any recommendations? Any good outlets that deliver?
Lenovo ThinkPad X and T series have been good to me for 2 laptops. Lots of my entourage have them, I think nearly all purchased used or refurbished. Everyone seems satisfied. I bought my current lappy (x240) used from an individual. My previous Lenovo was given to me by a friend. Anyway, I'm in Montreal, so none of my store references would likely be useful to you. Beware though, that some stores I've seen on line, be they bricks and mortar or virtual only, don't actually refurbish, though they kinda sorta seemta infer that they do "tests" to insure everything is working. So basically you're getting a used laptop, period, from those guys. That's not necessarily bad, as usually they're cheaper than the refurbs, too. -- Znoteer znoteer@mailbox.org
On 2020-04-22 03:47 PM, William Park via talk wrote:
Microsoft (for new). Loaded with Linux? ;-)
BTW, I have a Lenovo ThinkPad E520, which has served me well for about 8.5 years. Previously I had an R51, IIRC. Prior to that I had access to lots of ThinkPads, when I worked at IBM. I used to have a dozen or so at my desk, in addition to my work computer.
My current 2 laptops are Thinkpads, T430 and T460. My previous ones were Thinkpads too, and they are heavy like a brick, look like a brick, and sturdy as a brick. Never had a problem with them. But I had Dell and HP notebooks and all failed from overheating issues, motherboard issues, things like that. Mauro http://mauro.limeiratem.com - registered Linux User: 294521 Scripture is both history, and a love letter from God. Em qua., 22 de abr. de 2020 às 17:07, James Knott via talk <talk@gtalug.org> escreveu:
On 2020-04-22 03:47 PM, William Park via talk wrote:
Microsoft (for new). Loaded with Linux? ;-)
BTW, I have a Lenovo ThinkPad E520, which has served me well for about 8.5 years. Previously I had an R51, IIRC. Prior to that I had access to lots of ThinkPads, when I worked at IBM. I used to have a dozen or so at my desk, in addition to my work computer.
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I have a thinkpad t440p with 32 GB, socketed. They have some slightly slimmer 32 and 64 GB models, which I will look at when I need more memory. --dave On 2020-04-22 4:29 p.m., Mauro Souza via talk wrote: My current 2 laptops are Thinkpads, T430 and T460. My previous ones were Thinkpads too, and they are heavy like a brick, look like a brick, and sturdy as a brick. Never had a problem with them. But I had Dell and HP notebooks and all failed from overheating issues, motherboard issues, things like that. Mauro http://mauro.limeiratem.com - registered Linux User: 294521 Scripture is both history, and a love letter from God. Em qua., 22 de abr. de 2020 às 17:07, James Knott via talk <talk@gtalug.org<mailto:talk@gtalug.org>> escreveu: On 2020-04-22 03:47 PM, William Park via talk wrote:
Microsoft (for new). Loaded with Linux? ;-)
BTW, I have a Lenovo ThinkPad E520, which has served me well for about 8.5 years. Previously I had an R51, IIRC. Prior to that I had access to lots of ThinkPads, when I worked at IBM. I used to have a dozen or so at my desk, in addition to my work computer. --- Post to this mailing list talk@gtalug.org<mailto:talk@gtalug.org> Unsubscribe from this mailing list https://gtalug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk --- Post to this mailing list talk@gtalug.org<mailto:talk@gtalug.org> Unsubscribe from this mailing list https://gtalug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk -- David Collier-Brown, | Always do right. This will gratify System Programmer and Author | some people and astonish the rest dave.collier-brown@indexexchange.com<mailto:dave.collier-brown@indexexchange.com> | -- Mark Twain CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE AND DISCLAIMER : This telecommunication, including any and all attachments, contains confidential information intended only for the person(s) to whom it is addressed. Any dissemination, distribution, copying or disclosure is strictly prohibited and is not a waiver of confidentiality. If you have received this telecommunication in error, please notify the sender immediately by return electronic mail and delete the message from your inbox and deleted items folders. This telecommunication does not constitute an express or implied agreement to conduct transactions by electronic means, nor does it constitute a contract offer, a contract amendment or an acceptance of a contract offer. Contract terms contained in this telecommunication are subject to legal review and the completion of formal documentation and are not binding until same is confirmed in writing and has been signed by an authorized signatory.
On Wed, Apr 22, 2020 at 04:44:53PM -0400, Dave Collier-Brown via talk wrote:
I have a thinkpad t440p with 32 GB, socketed. They have some slightly slimmer 32 and 64 GB models, which I will look at when I need more memory.
The new ones are certainly thinner and lighter. They have unfortunately stopped having externally swappable batteries, although the battery life is quite impressively long these days. I think most laptops have made that change. -- Len Sorensen
On Wed, Apr 22, 2020 at 05:18:29PM -0400, James Knott via talk wrote:
And use USB Ethernet adapters.
The Thinkpad T and P series still have RJ45 ports. But I can believe it will disappear since most other laptops have done so. Most people don't use them ever. -- Len Sorensen
On Mon, 27 Apr 2020 09:45:01 -0400 Lennart Sorensen via talk <talk@gtalug.org> wrote:
On Wed, Apr 22, 2020 at 05:18:29PM -0400, James Knott via talk wrote:
And use USB Ethernet adapters.
The Thinkpad T and P series still have RJ45 ports. But I can believe it will disappear since most other laptops have done so. Most people don't use them ever.
Lennart, I think my current laptop has an RJ45 port. I bought a docking station for it, so I use that. Historically, I use the RJ45s because I transfer data to and from the laptop, and I want it to happen quickly. I visited Canada Computers in Etobicoke, and I think I got the last desktop with slots for DVD/Blu-Ray discs (and 5-1/4 floppy drives), and controls on the front. My cat can no longer turn my computer off. You people are on your own! -- Howard Gibson hgibson@eol.ca jhowardgibson@gmail.com http://home.eol.ca/~hgibson
On 2020-04-27 10:22 AM, Howard Gibson via talk wrote:
I think my current laptop has an RJ45 port. I bought a docking station for it, so I use that. Historically, I use the RJ45s because I transfer data to and from the laptop, and I want it to happen quickly.
I use Wifi or Ethernet. For normal use, WiFi is fine. But if I'm doing something major, such as installing an OS, then I'll use Ethernet.
I visited Canada Computers in Etobicoke, and I think I got the last desktop with slots for DVD/Blu-Ray discs (and 5-1/4 floppy drives), and controls on the front. My cat can no longer turn my computer off. You people are on your own!
At least I have an external USB floppy drive! ;-)
James, Does your USB floppy drive work? I keep ordering these things and they work once or twice and then crap out. The one I have now never worked. They cost something like twelve bucks. I am willing to pay more of something that works. On Mon, 27 Apr 2020 10:39:44 -0400 James Knott via talk <talk@gtalug.org> wrote:
On 2020-04-27 10:22 AM, Howard Gibson via talk wrote:
I think my current laptop has an RJ45 port. I bought a docking station for it, so I use that. Historically, I use the RJ45s because I transfer data to and from the laptop, and I want it to happen quickly.
I use Wifi or Ethernet. For normal use, WiFi is fine. But if I'm doing something major, such as installing an OS, then I'll use Ethernet.
I visited Canada Computers in Etobicoke, and I think I got the last desktop with slots for DVD/Blu-Ray discs (and 5-1/4 floppy drives), and controls on the front. My cat can no longer turn my computer off. You people are on your own!
At least I have an external USB floppy drive! ;-)
--- Post to this mailing list talk@gtalug.org Unsubscribe from this mailing list https://gtalug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
-- Howard Gibson hgibson@eol.ca jhowardgibson@gmail.com http://home.eol.ca/~hgibson
On 2020-04-30 10:56 AM, Howard Gibson via talk wrote:
Does your USB floppy drive work? I keep ordering these things and they work once or twice and then crap out. The one I have now never worked. They cost something like twelve bucks. I am willing to pay more of something that works.
I had to find a floppy disk to test it with, but yes it still works. As soon as I put the floppy in the drive, the Device Notifier asked if I wanted to open it. I did and can see all the files on the floppy. However, this isn't some cheap drive from the Internet. It's actual IBM gear that came with my first ThinkPad. Back when I bought the ThinkPad, from the IBM Warehouse in Markham, I had the choice of an internal floppy drive or CD drive. I went with the CD drive and external floppy drive. On the bottom it says "IBM Portable Diskette Drive" etc.. P/N 06P5223. So, if you want something reliable, perhaps you could find one of those.
I for one prefer to have my laptops with as few moving (and especially spinning) parts as possible. In the days of half-terabyte USB sticks, having a disk reader inside a laptop is dead space/weight used for archiving/ripping, and certainly doesn't need to be as portable as the rest of the computer. This weekend I'm replacing a kaput HD on a Dell laptop with an SDD (if I can figure out to reinstall Windows on it for the laptop's owner, fine, if not it's Kubuntu 20.04). I have an external drive for CD/DVD/Bluray and another one for floppies that is shared between devices. The floppy drive -- a $14 Aliexpress generic -- is flaky but that usually seems more the fault of the media than the drive. How old are those disks? How fragile are those sliding covers? My main laptop uses a dongle for wired Ethernet (a reasonable trade-off considering how rarely I use it),but I've seen ingeniously-thin RJ45 sockets built into some units. - Evan On Thu, 30 Apr 2020 at 10:57, Howard Gibson via talk <talk@gtalug.org> wrote:
James,
Does your USB floppy drive work? I keep ordering these things and they work once or twice and then crap out. The one I have now never worked. They cost something like twelve bucks. I am willing to pay more of something that works.
On Mon, 27 Apr 2020 10:39:44 -0400 James Knott via talk <talk@gtalug.org> wrote:
On 2020-04-27 10:22 AM, Howard Gibson via talk wrote:
I think my current laptop has an RJ45 port. I bought a docking
station for it, so I use that. Historically, I use the RJ45s because I transfer data to and from the laptop, and I want it to happen quickly.
I use Wifi or Ethernet. For normal use, WiFi is fine. But if I'm doing something major, such as installing an OS, then I'll use Ethernet.
I visited Canada Computers in Etobicoke, and I think I got the
last desktop with slots for DVD/Blu-Ray discs (and 5-1/4 floppy drives), and controls on the front. My cat can no longer turn my computer off. You people are on your own!
At least I have an external USB floppy drive! ;-)
--- Post to this mailing list talk@gtalug.org Unsubscribe from this mailing list https://gtalug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
-- Howard Gibson hgibson@eol.ca jhowardgibson@gmail.com http://home.eol.ca/~hgibson --- Post to this mailing list talk@gtalug.org Unsubscribe from this mailing list https://gtalug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
-- Evan Leibovitch, Toronto Canada @evanleibovitch or @el56
On 2020-04-30 11:37 AM, Evan Leibovitch via talk wrote:
My main laptop uses a dongle for wired Ethernet (a reasonable trade-off considering how rarely I use it),but I've seen ingeniously-thin RJ45 sockets built into some units.
Back when I was at IBM (the first time), modems and network adapters came in the form of PCMCIA cards. Those were a tight squeeze for the connectors, but they managed. My R31 ThinkPad came with built in Ethernet and modem, but I lost the modem when I updated the WiFi from B only to G. The modem and original WiFi shared the same daughter board.
On 2020-04-30 11:44 a.m., James Knott via talk wrote:
On 2020-04-30 11:37 AM, Evan Leibovitch via talk wrote:
My main laptop uses a dongle for wired Ethernet (a reasonable trade-off considering how rarely I use it),but I've seen ingeniously-thin RJ45 sockets built into some units.
Back when I was at IBM (the first time), modems and network adapters came in the form of PCMCIA cards. Those were a tight squeeze for the connectors, but they managed. My R31 ThinkPad came with built in Ethernet and modem, but I lost the modem when I updated the WiFi from B only to G. The modem and original WiFi shared the same daughter board.
<In Palin's voice> Why, we'd 'a given our eye teeth for PCMCIA! In *my* day... <see attached> (with apologies for the jpeg - CC to follow if desired) Cheers, Mike
El Fontanero via talk wrote:
<In Palin's voice> Why, we'd 'a given our eye teeth for PCMCIA! In *my* day...
Back in the day a REAL card went 9 Edge First, and you'd best remember to dump out the chad hopper after punching your program. I think I still have a FORTRAN deck I did back when. Meanwhile, addressing the old-media-compatibility issue, having USB dongles that do the job is probably[0] the third best thing, second best is keeping an old system[1] around that still has the relevant readers[2], and the best is to have dubbed all your old media to newer storage during the era both were current so you'd not have to worry about whether you can get one more gasp out of the corpse of dead technology. For a laptop, portability, usability, and not being so stinking expensive you're afraid to take it anywhere are key attributes. Being able to leave most of your bag of tricks at home or in the car or in the laptop bag can really save weight and clutter. [0] those are never quite the same as the classic hardware they replace. [1] eventually ancient hardware supported in an earlier Linux will be forgotten by newer kernels; a software upgrade on your designated dinosaur can too easily be what kills it. [2] optical drive or some of the three sizes of floppy[3] drive. [3] formats were never quite the same; who else remembers the story of how Apple ][ floppies were written and read based on 6502 clock cycles of the I/O loop, or ran the disassembler deep enough to comprehend the true horror of how CP/M on that platform did its disk functions? -- Anthony de Boer
On 2020-04-30 01:56 PM, Anthony de Boer via talk wrote:
El Fontanero via talk wrote:
<In Palin's voice> Why, we'd 'a given our eye teeth for PCMCIA! In*my* day... Back in the day a REAL card went 9 Edge First, and you'd best remember to dump out the chad hopper after punching your program.
I think I still have a FORTRAN deck I did back when.
Here is a photo of a core memory plane that I have. It's 4K bits and came from a Collins B8500 computer. There were 32 of these stacked in a module and 4 modules in the memory chassis, for a total of 64 KB. https://drive.google.com/open?id=1F0K1vDzT0HjrBDKySpQ8m91TPw2UDCsS
[3] formats were never quite the same; who else remembers the story of how Apple ][ floppies were written and read based on 6502 clock cycles of the I/O loop
I recall that it wasn't compatible with anything else.
| From: James Knott via talk <talk@gtalug.org> | Here is a photo of a core memory plane that I have. It's 4K bits and came | from a Collins B8500 computer. There were 32 of these stacked in a module and | 4 modules in the memory chassis, for a total of 64 KB. | https://drive.google.com/open?id=1F0K1vDzT0HjrBDKySpQ8m91TPw2UDCsS I find a Collins C8500 mentioned here, but no B series at all <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arthur_A._Collins> Burroughs had announced a B8500 but it was cancelled. <https://www.liquisearch.com/burroughs_large_systems/b8500>
On 2020-04-30 03:29 PM, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote:
| From: James Knott via talk<talk@gtalug.org>
| Here is a photo of a core memory plane that I have. It's 4K bits and came | from a Collins B8500 computer. There were 32 of these stacked in a module and | 4 modules in the memory chassis, for a total of 64 KB. |https://drive.google.com/open?id=1F0K1vDzT0HjrBDKySpQ8m91TPw2UDCsS
I find a Collins C8500 mentioned here, but no B series at all <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arthur_A._Collins>
The B preceded the C. That article also mentions the 8400. We had all 3 at CN Telecommunications/CNCP Telecommunications. The C8400 and B8500 systems were were on the 4th floor at 151 Front St. W and the C8500 in Air Canada on the 6th floor (later expanded to 7th). The Air Canada C8500s were a communications front end for a Univac system, but the CN systems were the message switching systems for various services CN offered, including the public telegraph system and others. The telegraph system later moved to some Data General Eclipse S130s. From Dec. 1977 to Sept 1989, I was a computer tech there and worked on a variety of systems, including Data General Nova & Eclipse, DEC PDP-8, PDP-11 and VAX 11/780, Pr1me, Philips DS714 and Collins. There was also an HP 1000, but I didn't work on that.
On 2020-04-30 11:37 a.m., Evan Leibovitch via talk wrote: I for one prefer to have my laptops with as few moving (and especially spinning) parts as possible. In the days of half-terabyte USB sticks, having a disk reader inside a laptop is dead space/weight used for archiving/ripping, and certainly doesn't need to be as portable as the rest of the computer. ... My main laptop uses a dongle for wired Ethernet (a reasonable trade-off considering how rarely I use it),but I've seen ingeniously-thin RJ45 sockets built into some units. - Evan I've recently switched back to using docking stations, which give me toms of USB ports, multiple screen ports and wired Ethernet. My next machine won't need as many and as man kinds of ports onboard. Colleagues at work use a cute little mac thingie that their screens and Ethernets plug into, a really small dock. --dave -- David Collier-Brown, | Always do right. This will gratify System Programmer and Author | some people and astonish the rest dave.collier-brown@indexexchange.com<mailto:dave.collier-brown@indexexchange.com> | -- Mark Twain CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE AND DISCLAIMER : This telecommunication, including any and all attachments, contains confidential information intended only for the person(s) to whom it is addressed. Any dissemination, distribution, copying or disclosure is strictly prohibited and is not a waiver of confidentiality. If you have received this telecommunication in error, please notify the sender immediately by return electronic mail and delete the message from your inbox and deleted items folders. This telecommunication does not constitute an express or implied agreement to conduct transactions by electronic means, nor does it constitute a contract offer, a contract amendment or an acceptance of a contract offer. Contract terms contained in this telecommunication are subject to legal review and the completion of formal documentation and are not binding until same is confirmed in writing and has been signed by an authorized signatory.
On 2020-04-30 10:56 a.m., Howard Gibson via talk wrote:
Does your USB floppy drive work? I keep ordering these things and they work once or twice and then crap out. The one I have now never worked. They cost something like twelve bucks. I am willing to pay more of something that works.
Seconding the IBM USB floppy drive. They work really well. Newer devices can only handle 1.44 MB disks, but the IBM will read 720 K disks too. None of them will read the weird Apple IIgs GCR floppies, though. If you must use floppies or a device that thinks it needs them, Goteks are nice. They replace the floppy hardware with a USB port for a memory stick that can hold hundreds of floppy images. Even my PDP8 (single board, but real Harris/Intersil HD-6120) uses a CF card these days … https://mltshp.com/p/1IF2N Stewart
Guys, guys... this is one (of many) reason why we don't attract newbies. The thread started with asking about new laptop (circa 2020), and have deteriorated to PDP-8. I can assure you no newbies is interested in PDP-8/11 (circa 19xx). -- William Park <opengeometry@yahoo.ca> On Thu, Apr 30, 2020 at 09:08:48PM -0400, James Knott via talk wrote:
On 2020-04-30 08:46 PM, Stewart C. Russell via talk wrote:
Even my PDP8
Geez... It's close to 40 years since I last touched a PDP-8. We had a PDP-8i at work. Anyone else here remember the RIM loader?
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| From: James Knott via talk <talk@gtalug.org> | On 2020-04-30 08:46 PM, Stewart C. Russell via talk wrote: | > Even my PDP8 Neat! | Geez... It's close to 40 years since I last touched a PDP-8. We had a PDP-8i | at work. Anyone else here remember the RIM loader? Yeah. I only used PDP-8 computers before floppies had been invented. You didn't have to remember the RIM loader for the PDP-8/I, it was silk-screened onto the console. <https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e0/PDP-8_I_Bedienfeld_%28simuliert%29.png> You didn't often need to use it since its only purpose was to load the BIN loader, and that usually persisted (core memory FTW!).
On 2020-05-01 12:14 PM, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote:
| On 2020-04-30 08:46 PM, Stewart C. Russell via talk wrote: | > Even my PDP8
Neat!
There were also microprocessor versions of the PDP-11 and Data General Nova. Heathkit had a computer based on the LSI-11. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heathkit_H11
On Fri, May 01, 2020 at 12:14:11PM -0400, D. Hugh Redelmeier via talk wrote:
Yeah. I only used PDP-8 computers before floppies had been invented.
You didn't have to remember the RIM loader for the PDP-8/I, it was silk-screened onto the console.
<https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e0/PDP-8_I_Bedienfeld_%28simuliert%29.png>
You didn't often need to use it since its only purpose was to load the BIN loader, and that usually persisted (core memory FTW!).
I wonder if the developers had competitions on who could write the shortest working loader program. -- Len Sorensen
Waaaaay off-topic, but this reminds me of writing “Cold Start” cards for the IBM 1130. A card had 80 columns and 12 rows, so you had 80 words of program but the instructions needed to be carefully chosen because you only had 12 bits and the other 4 bits were filled in by hardware. The standard one moved itself out of the way and then read the first sector off the disk. But someone wrote a “rabbit” card which would reproduce itself on every card in the hopper (typically you’d put a cold start card on the front of your deck and then hit the Initial Program Load sequence… so the rabbit card would destroy the whole deck!! One that I wrote basically made the line printer dance around the room (a.k.a. destroy itself if you didn’t stop it quickly). ../Dave On May 1, 2020, 2:45 PM -0400, Lennart Sorensen via talk <talk@gtalug.org>, wrote:
On Fri, May 01, 2020 at 12:14:11PM -0400, D. Hugh Redelmeier via talk wrote:
Yeah. I only used PDP-8 computers before floppies had been invented.
You didn't have to remember the RIM loader for the PDP-8/I, it was silk-screened onto the console.
<https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e0/PDP-8_I_Bedienfeld_%28simuliert%29.png>
You didn't often need to use it since its only purpose was to load the BIN loader, and that usually persisted (core memory FTW!).
I wonder if the developers had competitions on who could write the shortest working loader program.
-- Len Sorensen --- Post to this mailing list talk@gtalug.org Unsubscribe from this mailing list https://gtalug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
Lennart Sorensen via talk wrote:
I wonder if the developers had competitions on who could write the shortest working loader program.
No fair modifying hardware to create the new instructions you needed. That was a thing, back when it was still possible to get tools between parts of your CPU. -- Anthony de Boer
On 2020-05-01 03:59 PM, Anthony de Boer via talk wrote:
I wonder if the developers had competitions on who could write the shortest working loader program. No fair modifying hardware to create the new instructions you needed. That was a thing, back when it was still possible to get tools between
Lennart Sorensen via talk wrote: parts of your CPU.
Both the Data General Eclipse and DEC VAX 11/780 supported microcode, where you could write your own instructions. I occasionally had to track down microcode bugs on the Eclipse.
On 2020-05-01 2:45 p.m., Lennart Sorensen via talk wrote:
I wonder if the developers had competitions on who could write the shortest working loader program.
They still do. My friend Josh (also in the GTA) recently bootstrapped the Altair in 12 bytes. Bill Gates did it in 17. Details (plus Josh showing off his Altair, Imsai and Altair 680): https://just8bits.blogspot.com/2017/03/doing-it-in-less-than-bill-gates.html Stewart
On 2020-05-01 06:09 PM, Stewart C. Russell via talk wrote:
On 2020-05-01 2:45 p.m., Lennart Sorensen via talk wrote:
I wonder if the developers had competitions on who could write the shortest working loader program.
They still do. My friend Josh (also in the GTA) recently bootstrapped the Altair in 12 bytes. Bill Gates did it in 17. Details (plus Josh showing off his Altair, Imsai and Altair 680): https://just8bits.blogspot.com/2017/03/doing-it-in-less-than-bill-gates.html
I used to have an IMSAI 8080. IIRC, Byte magazine used to have contests to do some task in the fewest Bytes. BTW, I used to have a M35 ASR Teletype, which was a lot better machine than the M33. I also started my career as a bench tech overhauling Teletypes.
We did in my undergraduate program: I wrote a 10-card loader that was 11 cards long (;-)) winning a prize for "you can;t do that!" --dave On 2020-05-01 2:45 p.m., Lennart Sorensen via talk wrote: On Fri, May 01, 2020 at 12:14:11PM -0400, D. Hugh Redelmeier via talk wrote: Yeah. I only used PDP-8 computers before floppies had been invented. You didn't have to remember the RIM loader for the PDP-8/I, it was silk-screened onto the console. <https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e0/PDP-8_I_Bedienfeld_%28simuliert%29.png><https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e0/PDP-8_I_Bedienfeld_%28simuliert%29.png> You didn't often need to use it since its only purpose was to load the BIN loader, and that usually persisted (core memory FTW!). I wonder if the developers had competitions on who could write the shortest working loader program. -- David Collier-Brown, | Always do right. This will gratify System Programmer and Author | some people and astonish the rest dave.collier-brown@indexexchange.com<mailto:dave.collier-brown@indexexchange.com> | -- Mark Twain CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE AND DISCLAIMER : This telecommunication, including any and all attachments, contains confidential information intended only for the person(s) to whom it is addressed. Any dissemination, distribution, copying or disclosure is strictly prohibited and is not a waiver of confidentiality. If you have received this telecommunication in error, please notify the sender immediately by return electronic mail and delete the message from your inbox and deleted items folders. This telecommunication does not constitute an express or implied agreement to conduct transactions by electronic means, nor does it constitute a contract offer, a contract amendment or an acceptance of a contract offer. Contract terms contained in this telecommunication are subject to legal review and the completion of formal documentation and are not binding until same is confirmed in writing and has been signed by an authorized signatory.
On Thu, 30 Apr 2020 at 20:46, Stewart C. Russell via talk <talk@gtalug.org> wrote:
Seconding the IBM USB floppy drive. They work really well. Newer devices can only handle 1.44 MB disks, but the IBM will read 720 K disks too.
What about 2.88 MB ED disks? I have an (internal) drive that can handle these and quite a few of the disks themselves. The problem is, most motherboard BIOSs stopped supporting them along the way. -- Scott
On Wed, 22 Apr 2020, Mauro Souza via talk wrote:
My current 2 laptops are Thinkpads, T430 and T460. My previous ones were Thinkpads too, and they are heavy like a brick, look like a brick, and sturdy as a brick. Never had a problem with them. But I had Dell and HP notebooks and all failed from overheating issues, motherboard issues, things like that.
I bought a used Dell Inspiron 3720 about 7 years ago. It has been my main (and only) computer for the last 6 years. I have had no issues other than the internal DVD drive failing. -- "God is the explanation for those things we do not know, until we dispell such ignorance." — Dr. Richard Feynman
While not a recommendation, this just popped up on LWN https://fedoramagazine.org/coming-soon-fedora-on-lenovo-laptops/ Dhaval
Thanks for the help everyone. It's was my wife's laptop that crashed and she'll be ordering one from the HP website. I'm also going to try to use restic with Backblaze B2 for backing up our data. On Fri, Apr 24, 2020 at 12:11 PM Dhaval Giani via talk <talk@gtalug.org> wrote:
While not a recommendation, this just popped up on LWN
https://fedoramagazine.org/coming-soon-fedora-on-lenovo-laptops/
Dhaval --- Post to this mailing list talk@gtalug.org Unsubscribe from this mailing list https://gtalug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
I'd interested to know why you went with HP? -- William Park <opengeometry@yahoo.ca> On Sat, Apr 25, 2020 at 09:11:44AM -0400, Gron Arthur via talk wrote:
Thanks for the help everyone. It's was my wife's laptop that crashed and she'll be ordering one from the HP website. I'm also going to try to use restic with Backblaze B2 for backing up our data.
It's my wife's computer, she has been using HP and figured she'd keep using them. On Sat, Apr 25, 2020 at 5:17 PM William Park via talk <talk@gtalug.org> wrote:
I'd interested to know why you went with HP? -- William Park <opengeometry@yahoo.ca>
On Sat, Apr 25, 2020 at 09:11:44AM -0400, Gron Arthur via talk wrote:
Thanks for the help everyone. It's was my wife's laptop that crashed and she'll be ordering one from the HP website. I'm also going to try to use restic with Backblaze B2 for backing up our data.
Post to this mailing list talk@gtalug.org Unsubscribe from this mailing list https://gtalug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
| From: William Park via talk <talk@gtalug.org> | I'd interested to know why you went with HP? I don't have a lot of brand loyalty with notebooks. Except, perhaps, ThinkPad. All notebooks are built by a few ODMs (Original Device Manufacturer). Often they do most of the engineering too. So the brand isn't really the main determinant of quality. Here's a stale ODM list. It doesn't say which ODMs built which marques. <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_laptop_brands_and_manufacturers#ODM_laptop_units_sold_and_market_shares> I do know that Foxconn makes a lot of Apple stuff. And a lot of other stuff. Lenovo and Asus made a lot of their own stuff. I think HP uses different ODMs for different models but I don't know this. In my experience, HP has sold some interesting really low-end netbooks (HP Stream) and some nice "business class" notebooks. They've also taken "Envy" from a premium brand to a not-that-good brand. I have a "business class" HP tablet that they damaged with a firmware update (there is now a noticable delay between a touch and the response). They have never fixed. Even though some customers complained and some returned them under warranty.
If she wants a new HP, I bet she will later need another HP... As Hugh said, I only have Thinkpad on a different category. I had more than a couple company issued laptops from a variety of brands (HP, Dell, Acer, Itautec) and every single one was replaced because of hardware issues, some under warranty, some not. Until I got a ThinkPad and I refused to get a newer, faster, shinier non thinkpad... One of my current laptops (I have 2) is a T430 from '12, but I don't trade it for a new HP or Dell... On Sun, Apr 26, 2020, 19:09 D. Hugh Redelmeier via talk <talk@gtalug.org> wrote:
| From: William Park via talk <talk@gtalug.org>
| I'd interested to know why you went with HP?
I don't have a lot of brand loyalty with notebooks. Except, perhaps, ThinkPad.
All notebooks are built by a few ODMs (Original Device Manufacturer). Often they do most of the engineering too. So the brand isn't really the main determinant of quality.
Here's a stale ODM list. It doesn't say which ODMs built which marques.
< https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_laptop_brands_and_manufacturers#ODM_la...
I do know that Foxconn makes a lot of Apple stuff. And a lot of other stuff.
Lenovo and Asus made a lot of their own stuff.
I think HP uses different ODMs for different models but I don't know this.
In my experience, HP has sold some interesting really low-end netbooks (HP Stream) and some nice "business class" notebooks. They've also taken "Envy" from a premium brand to a not-that-good brand.
I have a "business class" HP tablet that they damaged with a firmware update (there is now a noticable delay between a touch and the response). They have never fixed. Even though some customers complained and some returned them under warranty.
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On 2020-04-26 11:13 PM, Mauro Souza via talk wrote:
If she wants a new HP, I bet she will later need another HP...
As Hugh said, I only have Thinkpad on a different category. I had more than a couple company issued laptops from a variety of brands (HP, Dell, Acer, Itautec) and every single one was replaced because of hardware issues, some under warranty, some not. Until I got a ThinkPad and I refused to get a newer, faster, shinier non thinkpad... One of my current laptops (I have 2) is a T430 from '12, but I don't trade it for a new HP or Dell...
I agree. I have had 2 ThinkPads of my own, currently an E520 and they both worked fine. The only reason I gave away my old one was I bought my current one, with a 16 x 9 screen and better WiFi. Other than the battery going, I've never had any issue with them. I also used to work at IBM, doing 3rd level software support and most of my work there was on ThinkPads and I never saw one fail. On the other hand, i had a Dell at one place I worked at it would lock up with a kaleidoscope of colours on the screen. I have seen other failures with other makes too. In my experience, the ThinkPads have been rock solid.
The previous HP lasted about 10 years. I'm using a ThinkPad and dreading having to buy a newer machine after the this experience. The thinner laptops remove many things. I like to have an sd card reader, but those are not to be found on many of the newer laptops. Also, most laptop sellers group the laptops into 'gaming' or 'business machines', these are really unhelpful marketing categories. On Mon, Apr 27, 2020 at 6:51 AM James Knott via talk <talk@gtalug.org> wrote:
On 2020-04-26 11:13 PM, Mauro Souza via talk wrote:
If she wants a new HP, I bet she will later need another HP...
As Hugh said, I only have Thinkpad on a different category. I had more than a couple company issued laptops from a variety of brands (HP, Dell, Acer, Itautec) and every single one was replaced because of hardware issues, some under warranty, some not. Until I got a ThinkPad and I refused to get a newer, faster, shinier non thinkpad... One of my current laptops (I have 2) is a T430 from '12, but I don't trade it for a new HP or Dell...
I agree. I have had 2 ThinkPads of my own, currently an E520 and they both worked fine. The only reason I gave away my old one was I bought my current one, with a 16 x 9 screen and better WiFi. Other than the battery going, I've never had any issue with them. I also used to work at IBM, doing 3rd level software support and most of my work there was on ThinkPads and I never saw one fail. On the other hand, i had a Dell at one place I worked at it would lock up with a kaleidoscope of colours on the screen. I have seen other failures with other makes too. In my experience, the ThinkPads have been rock solid.
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On 2020-04-27 07:38 AM, Gron Arthur via talk wrote:
The previous HP lasted about 10 years. I'm using a ThinkPad and dreading having to buy a newer machine after the this experience. The thinner laptops remove many things. I like to have an sd card reader, but those are not to be found on many of the newer laptops. Also, most laptop sellers group the laptops into 'gaming' or 'business machines', these are really unhelpful marketing categories.
Some of the newer models also don't even have an Ethernet port. You have to use a USB C adapter. Also, not many have a floppy drive these days! ;-) However, i preference would be for business class, no matter who makes it. Even with Lenovo, there's a big difference between the ThinkPad and Lenovo models.
On Mon, Apr 27, 2020 at 08:33:42AM -0400, James Knott via talk wrote:
Some of the newer models also don't even have an Ethernet port. You have to use a USB C adapter. Also, not many have a floppy drive these days! ;-)
However, i preference would be for business class, no matter who makes it. Even with Lenovo, there's a big difference between the ThinkPad and Lenovo models.
We got an ideapad for my wife about 10 years ago. I wouldn't recommend it. Way too fragile and flimsy. Thinkpads survive much better for her. Well the Asus R1F survived a surprising amount too but that's a long time ago. -- Len Sorensen
On Mon, Apr 27, 2020 at 12:13:20AM -0300, Mauro Souza via talk wrote:
If she wants a new HP, I bet she will later need another HP...
As Hugh said, I only have Thinkpad on a different category. I had more than a couple company issued laptops from a variety of brands (HP, Dell, Acer, Itautec) and every single one was replaced because of hardware issues, some under warranty, some not. Until I got a ThinkPad and I refused to get a newer, faster, shinier non thinkpad... One of my current laptops (I have 2) is a T430 from '12, but I don't trade it for a new HP or Dell...
My wife has two HP laptops from work. Both are about 4 months old. One has audio problems, the other seems to have misplaced the nvidia chip so only the intel graphics works, which means no external monitors can be connected. One of them was just reimaged because it managed to mess up windows bad enough skype couldn't launch. Those are Zbook 15 G5 workstation laptops. Not looking good quality wise for HP so far. The issues with the video on one is why she has the other but the second hasn't fully worked yet and hence she still has both of them. -- Len Sorensen
On 2020-04-24 12:11 PM, Dhaval Giani via talk wrote:
While not a recommendation, this just popped up on LWN
https://fedoramagazine.org/coming-soon-fedora-on-lenovo-laptops/
Down in the comments, the article author posted: "I don’t know about current models, but Lenovo is working with their vendors to make sure we have firmware support going forward." This is certainly good news. I like the ThinkPads, but when I got my E520 I had to wait a short while for SuSE to catch up with the WiFi. One other thing I like about ThinkPads is they have the TrackPoint. I've hated using those touch pads ever since I first came across one on a Toshiba notebook running Windows 95. I disabled the touchpad on my E520.
Dell XPS 13 works like a charm and it ships with Ubuntu pre-installed Le sam. 25 avr. 2020 à 09:24, James Knott via talk <talk@gtalug.org> a écrit :
On 2020-04-24 12:11 PM, Dhaval Giani via talk wrote:
While not a recommendation, this just popped up on LWN
https://fedoramagazine.org/coming-soon-fedora-on-lenovo-laptops/
Down in the comments, the article author posted:
"I don’t know about current models, but Lenovo is working with their vendors to make sure we have firmware support going forward."
This is certainly good news. I like the ThinkPads, but when I got my E520 I had to wait a short while for SuSE to catch up with the WiFi. One other thing I like about ThinkPads is they have the TrackPoint. I've hated using those touch pads ever since I first came across one on a Toshiba notebook running Windows 95. I disabled the touchpad on my E520.
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On Wed, Apr 22, 2020 at 07:07:29PM -0400, Chris F.A. Johnson via talk wrote:
I bought a used Dell Inspiron 3720 about 7 years ago.
It has been my main (and only) computer for the last 6 years.
I have had no issues other than the internal DVD drive failing.
Do you ever use the touchpad and keyboard on it? My experience with Dell's of that era were they were essentially unusable without an external mouse and keyboard. I remember so many people carrying mice and keyboards with them to meetings. -- Len Sorensen
On Mon, 27 Apr 2020, Lennart Sorensen wrote:
On Wed, Apr 22, 2020 at 07:07:29PM -0400, Chris F.A. Johnson via talk wrote:
I bought a used Dell Inspiron 3720 about 7 years ago.
It has been my main (and only) computer for the last 6 years.
I have had no issues other than the internal DVD drive failing.
Do you ever use the touchpad and keyboard on it? My experience with Dell's of that era were they were essentially unusable without an external mouse and keyboard. I remember so many people carrying mice and keyboards with them to meetings.
I have used the builtin keyboard and touchpad (e.g. when I am at a library), and they work fine. Normally I do use an external keyboard (http://cfaj.ca/keyboard.jpg), mouse, screen (49"!) and speakers (Harmon Kardon Soundsticks III). -- Chris F.A. Johnson <http://cfajohnson.com/> =========================== Author: =============================== Shell Scripting Recipes: A Problem-Solution Approach (2005, Apress) Pro Bash Programming: Scripting the GNU/Linux shell (2009, Apress)
On Mon, Apr 27, 2020 at 11:45:47AM -0400, Chris F.A. Johnson via talk wrote:
I have used the builtin keyboard and touchpad (e.g. when I am at a library), and they work fine. Normally I do use an external keyboard (http://cfaj.ca/keyboard.jpg), mouse, screen (49"!) and speakers (Harmon Kardon Soundsticks III).
I have never had an external keyboard connected to my W530. I have occationally connected a mouse to play some games, but most of the time I don't. The trackpoint is perfectly usable for most tasks. -- Len Sorensen
On Wed, Apr 22, 2020 at 09:42:43AM -0400, Gron Arthur via talk wrote:
Need to buy a new laptop, any recommendations? Any good outlets that deliver?
Any laptop I have bought in the last decade has been ordered from Lenovo's website. That way I get to spec it as I want it, and delivery has been free and usually pretty quick too. -- Len Sorensen
On 2020-04-22 04:47 PM, Lennart Sorensen via talk wrote:
On Wed, Apr 22, 2020 at 09:42:43AM -0400, Gron Arthur via talk wrote:
Need to buy a new laptop, any recommendations? Any good outlets that deliver? Any laptop I have bought in the last decade has been ordered from Lenovo's website. That way I get to spec it as I want it, and delivery has been free and usually pretty quick too.
One very important feature of my E520 is the "Windows" key has a recessed area that nicely fits a Tux sticker that I bought a while ago! ;-)
On Wed, Apr 22, 2020 at 05:17:38PM -0400, James Knott via talk wrote:
One very important feature of my E520 is the "Windows" key has a recessed area that nicely fits a Tux sticker that I bought a while ago! ;-)
I think the x30 models was went they went to chiclet keys, so I guess that option disappeared after yours then. -- Len Sorensen
| From: Gron Arthur via talk <talk@gtalug.org> | Need to buy a new laptop, any recommendations? Any good outlets that deliver? It would be useful if you told us what you need, want, value, and are willing to pay.
participants (20)
-
Anthony de Boer -
Chris F.A. Johnson -
D. Hugh Redelmeier -
Dave Collier-Brown -
Dave Cramer -
David Mason -
Dhaval Giani -
Don Tai -
El Fontanero -
Evan Leibovitch -
Gron Arthur -
Howard Gibson -
James Knott -
lsorense＠csclub.uwaterloo.ca -
Marc Lijour -
Mauro Souza -
Scott Allen -
Stewart C. Russell -
William Park -
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