Hi folks, Anyone using Linux successfully to access their on line bank account? If so, where? TD is not a prospect, so may be opening another account where I can manage a few things this way, if inclusive of course. Happy fall, Karen
I've been using Linux to successfully access my bank accounts with TD, RBC and CIBC since the year 2000. These are all just websites after all. Is your question rooted in a past experience where you had issues accessing your web banking using a Linux system? -Alex
On Oct 17, 2024, at 16:39, Karen Lewellen via talk <talk@gtalug.org> wrote:
Hi folks, Anyone using Linux successfully to access their on line bank account? If so, where? TD is not a prospect, so may be opening another account where I can manage a few things this way, if inclusive of course. Happy fall, Karen
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absolutely yes. When I visit td's on line portal, I only get silence, nothing link wise for my screen reader to access. Which command line Linux browser are you using? Kare On Thu, 17 Oct 2024, Alex Kink wrote:
I've been using Linux to successfully access my bank accounts with TD, RBC and CIBC since the year 2000. These are all just websites after all. Is your question rooted in a past experience where you had issues accessing your web banking using a Linux system?
-Alex
On Oct 17, 2024, at 16:39, Karen Lewellen via talk <talk@gtalug.org> wrote:
Hi folks, Anyone using Linux successfully to access their on line bank account? If so, where? TD is not a prospect, so may be opening another account where I can manage a few things this way, if inclusive of course. Happy fall, Karen
--- Post to this mailing list talk@gtalug.org Unsubscribe from this mailing list https://gtalug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
In my experience the browser and its configuration has more to do with how websites work than the operating system. In most cases. If TD has done a redesign and they no longer support screen readers that is a big time AODA problem. Their accessibility page provides this specific login URL so maybe it has some different features? https://authentication.td.com/uap-ui/index.html?consumer=easyweb&locale=en_CA#/login/easyweb-getting-started If that doesn't work, *if* you are feeling generous with your time you can always report the problem to them. The acessibility page <https://www.td.com/ca/en/about-td/accessibility> has contact info: accessibility@td.com, Customer.Support@td.com or 1-866-222-3456. On October 17, 2024 5:26:36 PM EDT, Karen Lewellen via talk <talk@gtalug.org> wrote:
absolutely yes. When I visit td's on line portal, I only get silence, nothing link wise for my screen reader to access. Which command line Linux browser are you using? Kare
On Thu, 17 Oct 2024, Alex Kink wrote:
I've been using Linux to successfully access my bank accounts with TD, RBC and CIBC since the year 2000. These are all just websites after all. Is your question rooted in a past experience where you had issues accessing your web banking using a Linux system?
-Alex
On Oct 17, 2024, at 16:39, Karen Lewellen via talk <talk@gtalug.org> wrote:
Hi folks, Anyone using Linux successfully to access their on line bank account? If so, where? TD is not a prospect, so may be opening another account where I can manage a few things this way, if inclusive of course. Happy fall, Karen
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She is using a text-based browser. Essentially all bets are off. If she is lucky, some bank site might work to some extent, but given how much JS is used to dynamically construct the DOM as well as do threat mitigation, sites that work in a text browser today might stop working tomorrow.
On Oct 17, 2024, at 19:03, bitmap via talk <talk@gtalug.org> wrote:
In my experience the browser and its configuration has more to do with how websites work than the operating system. In most cases. If TD has done a redesign and they no longer support screen readers that is a big time AODA problem.
Their accessibility page provides this specific login URL so maybe it has some different features? https://authentication.td.com/uap-ui/index.html?consumer=easyweb&locale=en_CA#/login/easyweb-getting-started
If that doesn't work, *if* you are feeling generous with your time you can always report the problem to them. The acessibility page <https://www.td.com/ca/en/about-td/accessibility> has contact info: accessibility@td.com, Customer.Support@td.com or 1-866-222-3456.
On October 17, 2024 5:26:36 PM EDT, Karen Lewellen via talk <talk@gtalug.org> wrote: absolutely yes. When I visit td's on line portal, I only get silence, nothing link wise for my screen reader to access. Which command line Linux browser are you using? Kare
On Thu, 17 Oct 2024, Alex Kink wrote:
I've been using Linux to successfully access my bank accounts with TD, RBC and CIBC since the year 2000. These are all just websites after all. Is your question rooted in a past experience where you had issues accessing your web banking using a Linux system?
-Alex
On Oct 17, 2024, at 16:39, Karen Lewellen via talk <talk@gtalug.org> wrote:
Hi folks, Anyone using Linux successfully to access their on line bank account? If so, where? TD is not a prospect, so may be opening another account where I can manage a few things this way, if inclusive of course. Happy fall, Karen Post to this mailing list talk@gtalug.org Unsubscribe from this mailing list https://gtalug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
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Alex Kink via talk said on Thu, 17 Oct 2024 20:08:32 -0400
She is using a text-based browser. Essentially all bets are off. If she is lucky, some bank site might work to some extent, but given how much JS is used to dynamically construct the DOM as well as do threat mitigation, sites that work in a text browser today might stop working tomorrow.
So what's her alternative, given she's blind? SteveT Steve Litt http://444domains.com
The alternative is to use the JavaScript focused browsers, like LInks and e-links, or even Lynx with the Java script focused keystrokes. none of that matters though if a site developer violates web design. It has nothing to do with blindness. A paraplegic using a voice browser is going to have the same issue. come to consider, so might many with learning disabilities, some of whom use screen readers too. I truly respect the body focus, but no matter how kind, that leads to more barriers. the discussion becomes, why are you not blind like..fill in the blank. I imagine TD has a single blind staff member for whom they bought specific tools, say used chrome with oh hmm talkback with is kind of sort of google's screen reader. whathappens though if the person needing to bank is say using a voice browser instead? Tools like that focus on standard key function, no mouse clicking in that case either. The body, no person's body is the issue. On Thu, 17 Oct 2024, Steve Litt via talk wrote:
Alex Kink via talk said on Thu, 17 Oct 2024 20:08:32 -0400
She is using a text-based browser. Essentially all bets are off. If she is lucky, some bank site might work to some extent, but given how much JS is used to dynamically construct the DOM as well as do threat mitigation, sites that work in a text browser today might stop working tomorrow.
So what's her alternative, given she's blind?
SteveT
Steve Litt
http://444domains.com --- Post to this mailing list talk@gtalug.org Unsubscribe from this mailing list https://gtalug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
The limiting factor here is that she can only use very specific set of software/hardware due to her medical condition(s). I'm just speculating but I guess that vast majority of blind users have no issues logging into online banking because they are able to use contemporary, widely supported GUI browsers with their accessibility tools. I don't know what her alternative is and if there is an alternative at all. Bottom line is that she began the thread asking folks which banks' online accounts can they access using text-based browsers under Linux. The purpose of the question, from what I gather, was to figure out which bank she should migrate to, to be able to use online banking. My opinion is, that even if she for example finds out that Desjardins works with `links` today and moves her business over, then tomorrow her access might randomly stop working. This is not because Desjardins did a major website overhaul, but because they updated a javascript library that their cybersec vendor is using on the site. I can bet a nice steak dinner that nobody is doing regression tests for text-based browsers today. If it works, it's just a happy accident.
On Oct 17, 2024, at 22:38, Steve Litt via talk <talk@gtalug.org> wrote:
Alex Kink via talk said on Thu, 17 Oct 2024 20:08:32 -0400
She is using a text-based browser. Essentially all bets are off. If she is lucky, some bank site might work to some extent, but given how much JS is used to dynamically construct the DOM as well as do threat mitigation, sites that work in a text browser today might stop working tomorrow.
So what's her alternative, given she's blind?
SteveT
Steve Litt
http://444domains.com --- Post to this mailing list talk@gtalug.org Unsubscribe from this mailing list https://gtalug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
On Fri, 18 Oct 2024 at 09:48, Alex Kink via talk <talk@gtalug.org> wrote:
Bottom line is that she began the thread asking folks which banks' online accounts can they access using text-based browsers under Linux.
No, she didn't. She began the thread asking the questions:
Anyone using Linux successfully to access their on line bank account? If so, where?
It was only after some people responded that TD and other banks work fine with browsers under Linux that she stated that she wanted to use a text based browser. -- Scott
It was only after some people responded that TD and other banks work fine with browsers under Linux that she stated that she wanted to use a text based browser. Yes, I was the first person to do that.
I get that it took several messages back and forth to figure out what she was after. I just summarized that into the main idea.
On Oct 18, 2024, at 13:44, Scott Allen <mlxxxp@gmail.com> wrote:
On Fri, 18 Oct 2024 at 09:48, Alex Kink via talk <talk@gtalug.org> wrote:
Bottom line is that she began the thread asking folks which banks' online accounts can they access using text-based browsers under Linux.
No, she didn't. She began the thread asking the questions:
Anyone using Linux successfully to access their on line bank account? If so, where?
It was only after some people responded that TD and other banks work fine with browsers under Linux that she stated that she wanted to use a text based browser.
-- Scott
That speculation is incorrect. For example, if a blind user is say one of those using a Braille display, they will encounter the same issue, because a screen reader simply provides what is on the screen. you have to use the enter key. Meaning if the site is scripted to need a mouse click a screen reader cannot fix that problem. Nothing about adaptive technology firmly nor universally insures access. Buttons must work from the keyboard is the wcag rule. besides there are close to a billion individuals on the planet experiencing some degree of sight loss..they are not interchangeable for one another. there is no such thing as most blind people. On Fri, 18 Oct 2024, Alex Kink via talk wrote:
The limiting factor here is that she can only use very specific set of software/hardware due to her medical condition(s).
I'm just speculating but I guess that vast majority of blind users have no issues logging into online banking because they are able to use contemporary, widely supported GUI browsers with their accessibility tools.
I don't know what her alternative is and if there is an alternative at all.
Bottom line is that she began the thread asking folks which banks' online accounts can they access using text-based browsers under Linux. The purpose of the question, from what I gather, was to figure out which bank she should migrate to, to be able to use online banking.
My opinion is, that even if she for example finds out that Desjardins works with `links` today and moves her business over, then tomorrow her access might randomly stop working. This is not because Desjardins did a major website overhaul, but because they updated a javascript library that their cybersec vendor is using on the site. I can bet a nice steak dinner that nobody is doing regression tests for text-based browsers today. If it works, it's just a happy accident.
On Oct 17, 2024, at 22:38, Steve Litt via talk <talk@gtalug.org> wrote:
Alex Kink via talk said on Thu, 17 Oct 2024 20:08:32 -0400
She is using a text-based browser. Essentially all bets are off. If she is lucky, some bank site might work to some extent, but given how much JS is used to dynamically construct the DOM as well as do threat mitigation, sites that work in a text browser today might stop working tomorrow.
So what's her alternative, given she's blind?
SteveT
Steve Litt
http://444domains.com --- Post to this mailing list talk@gtalug.org Unsubscribe from this mailing list https://gtalug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
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Actually, She is using browsers that support JavaScript both elinks, and Links. Both of which are options in command Line Linux. On Thu, 17 Oct 2024, Alex Kink via talk wrote:
She is using a text-based browser. Essentially all bets are off. If she is lucky, some bank site might work to some extent, but given how much JS is used to dynamically construct the DOM as well as do threat mitigation, sites that work in a text browser today might stop working tomorrow.
On Oct 17, 2024, at 19:03, bitmap via talk <talk@gtalug.org> wrote:
In my experience the browser and its configuration has more to do with how websites work than the operating system. In most cases. If TD has done a redesign and they no longer support screen readers that is a big time AODA problem.
Their accessibility page provides this specific login URL so maybe it has some different features? https://authentication.td.com/uap-ui/index.html?consumer=easyweb&locale=en_CA#/login/easyweb-getting-started
If that doesn't work, *if* you are feeling generous with your time you can always report the problem to them. The acessibility page <https://www.td.com/ca/en/about-td/accessibility> has contact info: accessibility@td.com, Customer.Support@td.com or 1-866-222-3456.
On October 17, 2024 5:26:36 PM EDT, Karen Lewellen via talk <talk@gtalug.org> wrote: absolutely yes. When I visit td's on line portal, I only get silence, nothing link wise for my screen reader to access. Which command line Linux browser are you using? Kare
On Thu, 17 Oct 2024, Alex Kink wrote:
I've been using Linux to successfully access my bank accounts with TD, RBC and CIBC since the year 2000. These are all just websites after all. Is your question rooted in a past experience where you had issues accessing your web banking using a Linux system?
-Alex
On Oct 17, 2024, at 16:39, Karen Lewellen via talk <talk@gtalug.org> wrote:
Hi folks, Anyone using Linux successfully to access their on line bank account? If so, where? TD is not a prospect, so may be opening another account where I can manage a few things this way, if inclusive of course. Happy fall, Karen Post to this mailing list talk@gtalug.org Unsubscribe from this mailing list https://gtalug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
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It was not clear from the way I wrote it. I understand that links ver. 2 for example supports some javascript. The problem is in how any given javascript application interacts with the browser and what that browser supports. Text based browsers don't support much of what modern javascript provides. The fact that when I go to the TD EasyWeb login page using links and it renders blank is the result of the javascript that is implemented on that page not being able to run as intended since links doesn't support bulk of those functions.
On Oct 17, 2024, at 23:37, Karen Lewellen <klewellen@shellworld.net> wrote:
Actually, She is using browsers that support JavaScript both elinks, and Links. Both of which are options in command Line Linux.
On Thu, 17 Oct 2024, Alex Kink via talk wrote:
She is using a text-based browser. Essentially all bets are off. If she is lucky, some bank site might work to some extent, but given how much JS is used to dynamically construct the DOM as well as do threat mitigation, sites that work in a text browser today might stop working tomorrow.
On Oct 17, 2024, at 19:03, bitmap via talk <talk@gtalug.org> wrote:
In my experience the browser and its configuration has more to do with how websites work than the operating system. In most cases. If TD has done a redesign and they no longer support screen readers that is a big time AODA problem.
Their accessibility page provides this specific login URL so maybe it has some different features? https://authentication.td.com/uap-ui/index.html?consumer=easyweb&locale=en_CA#/login/easyweb-getting-started
If that doesn't work, *if* you are feeling generous with your time you can always report the problem to them. The acessibility page <https://www.td.com/ca/en/about-td/accessibility> has contact info: accessibility@td.com, Customer.Support@td.com or 1-866-222-3456.
On October 17, 2024 5:26:36 PM EDT, Karen Lewellen via talk <talk@gtalug.org> wrote: absolutely yes. When I visit td's on line portal, I only get silence, nothing link wise for my screen reader to access. Which command line Linux browser are you using? Kare
On Thu, 17 Oct 2024, Alex Kink wrote:
I've been using Linux to successfully access my bank accounts with TD, RBC and CIBC since the year 2000. These are all just websites after all. Is your question rooted in a past experience where you had issues accessing your web banking using a Linux system?
-Alex
On Oct 17, 2024, at 16:39, Karen Lewellen via talk <talk@gtalug.org> wrote:
Hi folks, Anyone using Linux successfully to access their on line bank account? If so, where? TD is not a prospect, so may be opening another account where I can manage a few things this way, if inclusive of course. Happy fall, Karen Post to this mailing list talk@gtalug.org Unsubscribe from this mailing list https://gtalug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
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I respect that, however it is not necessarily the browser at fault here speaking personally. E-links for example runs a wider variety of JavaScript, when compiled for that goal. however if a bank uses a proprietary form of JavaScript, or does not use progressive enhancement so other forms of JavaScript still have access, that is not inclusive or universal web design. As shared JavaScript is language, there is little modern about it if the site is intended to be accessed by the public. speaking personally, if JavaScript has become more modern, then as with most language the basic elements should still be present, just built upon. Super highway metaphors for the Internet are relevant. When the web floor is sound, with JavaScript on top, more have a way in if that makes sense. And on the Linux side? Links is open source. Unfortunately as is often the case with Linux speaking personally, a tool is only as good as the people thinking it worth their time. Links, in theory, as an open source project, could be enhanced, is that not correct? Thanks for providing engaging perspective, Karen On Fri, 18 Oct 2024, Alex Kink wrote:
It was not clear from the way I wrote it.
I understand that links ver. 2 for example supports some javascript.
The problem is in how any given javascript application interacts with the browser and what that browser supports. Text based browsers don't support much of what modern javascript provides.
The fact that when I go to the TD EasyWeb login page using links and it renders blank is the result of the javascript that is implemented on that page not being able to run as intended since links doesn't support bulk of those functions.
On Oct 17, 2024, at 23:37, Karen Lewellen <klewellen@shellworld.net> wrote:
Actually, She is using browsers that support JavaScript both elinks, and Links. Both of which are options in command Line Linux.
On Thu, 17 Oct 2024, Alex Kink via talk wrote:
She is using a text-based browser. Essentially all bets are off. If she is lucky, some bank site might work to some extent, but given how much JS is used to dynamically construct the DOM as well as do threat mitigation, sites that work in a text browser today might stop working tomorrow.
On Oct 17, 2024, at 19:03, bitmap via talk <talk@gtalug.org> wrote:
In my experience the browser and its configuration has more to do with how websites work than the operating system. In most cases. If TD has done a redesign and they no longer support screen readers that is a big time AODA problem.
Their accessibility page provides this specific login URL so maybe it has some different features? https://authentication.td.com/uap-ui/index.html?consumer=easyweb&locale=en_CA#/login/easyweb-getting-started
If that doesn't work, *if* you are feeling generous with your time you can always report the problem to them. The acessibility page <https://www.td.com/ca/en/about-td/accessibility> has contact info: accessibility@td.com, Customer.Support@td.com or 1-866-222-3456.
On October 17, 2024 5:26:36 PM EDT, Karen Lewellen via talk <talk@gtalug.org> wrote: absolutely yes. When I visit td's on line portal, I only get silence, nothing link wise for my screen reader to access. Which command line Linux browser are you using? Kare
On Thu, 17 Oct 2024, Alex Kink wrote:
I've been using Linux to successfully access my bank accounts with TD, RBC and CIBC since the year 2000. These are all just websites after all. Is your question rooted in a past experience where you had issues accessing your web banking using a Linux system?
-Alex
> On Oct 17, 2024, at 16:39, Karen Lewellen via talk <talk@gtalug.org> wrote: > > Hi folks, > Anyone using Linux successfully to access their on line bank account? > If so, where? > TD is not a prospect, so may be opening another account where I can manage a few things this way, if inclusive of course. > Happy fall, > Karen > Post to this mailing list talk@gtalug.org > Unsubscribe from this mailing list https://gtalug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
Post to this mailing list talk@gtalug.org Unsubscribe from this mailing list https://gtalug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
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Thanks for providing this information. Sharing in return, only in the sincere interest of education. I hear more often then I might wish the idea that it is every soul's obligation to educate, so. 1, TD Bank is not subject to the aoda. The aoda, which itself is both less legally relevant then the Ontario human rights code, and is, as demonstrated by allot of recent coverage of the new Toronto court house, quite a broken piece of legislation..is Provencal. Banks, are federal meaning any human rights violations fall under the jurisdiction of the Canadian human rights code. 2. no website should ever be created to work with any single tool, screen reader or otherwise. First that endeavor is impossible, there are scores of screen readers across various platforms. second, at the most basic a screen reader is a talking monitor. sure some talk very well indeed, like my several smiles. some talk very very badly, like most written for Linux. But at the end of the day focusing on the screen reader is like say focusing on a 1975 ford being the cause of road issues. Instead web design, when done correctly employs progressive enhancement. Starts with a well laid cement road, basic HTML for example, and builds on that road. The rules around web access, web content access guidelines, include things like the below. Guideline 4.1 Compatible: Maximize compatibility with current and future user agents, including assistive technologies. Guideline 2.1 Keyboard Accessible: Make all functionality available from a keyboard. those matter a great deal, because someone who is say paraplegic is not going to use a screen reader. They do still need to bank however. for the record, someone who is actually deaf blind is not going to use one either..but they still need keyboard function, or the equal of that function. By voice for example. Problems like TD happen when a staffer thinks all individuals sharing a label are the same, finds a single example, and tada thinks they project to everyone even if that everyone is using something else. And finally. 3. The accessibility contact at TD bank is an automated email that thanks you for writing, says they will consider your *feedback* in relation to the new accessible Canada act, but if your issue is actually about banking services, ask someone else. Last I checked the online banking tool required you to use a single set of adaptive technologies..which is indeed a violation of human rights law in Canada. Does all that make sense? My sincere hope was, given all the claims to successful Linux access, someone is doing this in the heart of Linux, its command line. That way I could just find a solution, instead of say spending a couple of years at the Canadian Human Rights commission. Your confusion is perfectly and absolutely understandable, believe me! Cheers, Kare On Thu, 17 Oct 2024, bitmap via talk wrote:
In my experience the browser and its configuration has more to do with how websites work than the operating system. In most cases. If TD has done a redesign and they no longer support screen readers that is a big time AODA problem.
Their accessibility page provides this specific login URL so maybe it has some different features? https://authentication.td.com/uap-ui/index.html?consumer=easyweb&locale=en_CA#/login/easyweb-getting-started
If that doesn't work, *if* you are feeling generous with your time you can always report the problem to them. The acessibility page <https://www.td.com/ca/en/about-td/accessibility> has contact info: accessibility@td.com, Customer.Support@td.com or 1-866-222-3456.
On October 17, 2024 5:26:36 PM EDT, Karen Lewellen via talk <talk@gtalug.org> wrote:
absolutely yes. When I visit td's on line portal, I only get silence, nothing link wise for my screen reader to access. Which command line Linux browser are you using? Kare
On Thu, 17 Oct 2024, Alex Kink wrote:
I've been using Linux to successfully access my bank accounts with TD, RBC and CIBC since the year 2000. These are all just websites after all. Is your question rooted in a past experience where you had issues accessing your web banking using a Linux system?
-Alex
On Oct 17, 2024, at 16:39, Karen Lewellen via talk <talk@gtalug.org> wrote:
Hi folks, Anyone using Linux successfully to access their on line bank account? If so, where? TD is not a prospect, so may be opening another account where I can manage a few things this way, if inclusive of course. Happy fall, Karen
--- Post to this mailing list talk@gtalug.org Unsubscribe from this mailing list https://gtalug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
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From: Karen Lewellen via talk <talk@gtalug.org>
My sincere hope was, given all the claims to successful Linux access, someone is doing this in the heart of Linux, its command line.
The heart of the web is the GUI browser. Linux cannot change that. Ideally, the web is identical for Windows and Linux users. There are, of course, second order differences. Screen readers, for example. I think that you've said screen readers are better on Windows. lynx, links, elinks all try to use a TUI for the web but are pretty hit-or-miss. I don't know when you are using MS-DOS, but I would be surprised if you could browse well from MS-DOS.
The heart of the web is the GUI browser. Linux cannot change that.
This is well put. The web is meant for a conventional GUI browser. The text-based browsers are just doing a best approximation of what the site is so it can be shown in a terminal environment. One can't go around and make claims that (and I'm summarizing/paraphrasing here) that the web developers are doing a crappy job (I get that bulk of the web is crap, but that's a different topic) by not making sure the site will work in a text-based browser.
On Oct 18, 2024, at 11:41, D. Hugh Redelmeier via talk <talk@gtalug.org> wrote:
From: Karen Lewellen via talk <talk@gtalug.org>
My sincere hope was, given all the claims to successful Linux access, someone is doing this in the heart of Linux, its command line.
The heart of the web is the GUI browser. Linux cannot change that.
Ideally, the web is identical for Windows and Linux users.
There are, of course, second order differences. Screen readers, for example. I think that you've said screen readers are better on Windows.
lynx, links, elinks all try to use a TUI for the web but are pretty hit-or-miss.
I don't know when you are using MS-DOS, but I would be surprised if you could browse well from MS-DOS. --- Post to this mailing list talk@gtalug.org Unsubscribe from this mailing list https://gtalug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
From: Alex Kink via talk <talk@gtalug.org>
One can't go around and make claims that (and I'm summarizing/paraphrasing here) that the web developers are doing a crappy job (I get that bulk of the web is crap, but that's a different topic) by not making sure the site will work in a text-based browser.
One can claim that web developers are doing a lousy job of making sites accessible. Karen is living proof. We can complain that she isn't doing it right but then it behooves us to figure out a way she can do it right. Experimentation is sometimes damaging for her, so changing her methods a last resort. It's a tough problem.
D. Hugh Redelmeier via talk wrote on 2024-10-18 14:43:
One can claim that web developers are doing a lousy job of making sites accessible.
For a site backed by infinite money, like banks, there is no excuse. For a web developer to try to understand all of the "aria" accessibility enhancements (a11y - it's such a big topic even the word doesn't get typed out), it's an entirely separate job. I've been playing with Material Design (by Google), and each component of MUI has an ARIA section and, where possible, the components take care of as much of that as possible by default. So, yes it could and *should* be better. Also, it's a very complex topic and many / most devs won't have access to testing tools like screen readers. Material Design at least makes colours, contrast, and keyboard navigation quite easy, and helps with ARIA labelling. It's worth looking into, it's pretty nice. Tailwind (originally by Twitter, I think), also looks nice.
On Fri, Oct 18, 2024 at 11:41:09AM -0400, D. Hugh Redelmeier via talk wrote:
From: Karen Lewellen via talk <talk@gtalug.org>
My sincere hope was, given all the claims to successful Linux access, someone is doing this in the heart of Linux, its command line.
The heart of the web is the GUI browser. Linux cannot change that.
Ideally, the web is identical for Windows and Linux users.
There are, of course, second order differences. Screen readers, for example. I think that you've said screen readers are better on Windows.
lynx, links, elinks all try to use a TUI for the web but are pretty hit-or-miss.
I don't know when you are using MS-DOS, but I would be surprised if you could browse well from MS-DOS.
The setup involved is ssh running on dos connecting to a linux system, running a text browser. There is no GUI involved anywhere. Text to speech is handled by a card made by DEC using drivers on DOS. It's a rather unusual setup, but seems very functional, especially at the speed of speech Karen is used to using on it. If the site doesn't work with a text only browser, it causes problems though. -- Len Sorensen
Reply is below quoted content. On Thursday, October 17, 2024 5:26:36 P.M. EDT Karen Lewellen via talk wrote:
absolutely yes. When I visit td's on line portal, I only get silence, nothing link wise for my screen reader to access. Which command line Linux browser are you using? Kare
On Thu, 17 Oct 2024, Alex Kink wrote:
I've been using Linux to successfully access my bank accounts with TD, RBC and CIBC since the year 2000. These are all just websites after all. Is your question rooted in a past experience where you had issues accessing your web banking using a Linux system?
-Alex
On Oct 17, 2024, at 16:39, Karen Lewellen via talk <talk@gtalug.org> wrote:
Hi folks, Anyone using Linux successfully to access their on line bank account? If so, where? TD is not a prospect, so may be opening another account where I can manage a few things this way, if inclusive of course. Happy fall, Karen
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Hi Karen, Unfortunately, many websites nowadays require JavaScript, which might be not well-supported in text-based web browsers. I tried to open TD's login page in w3m, and it displays a blank page. Elinks ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ ELinks ) seem to have JavaScript support. That said, if there are no other difficulty for you to use a GUI application, I would recommend using a GUI web browser like Mozilla Firefox, together with the Orca screen reader ( https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/orca ). I just tried opening td.com in Firefox and had Orca read it with no problem. At least I can go to the login page and submit. I do not have a TD account so I do not know how it would sound like after login. Best regards, tusooa
Hi there. Allot of stuff to work through for your answer. Actually Links, also can be built with JavaScript, like elinks, both of which say work at amazon Canada. I truly respect your orca suggestion, which cannot run in command line Linux. It also, according to some of their developers, cannot run in many Linux distributions either. For me personally using orca means a risk of Hospitalization because of the profoundly poor, for me, choices for speech synthesis. how many weeks have you been using Orca across the board? My understanding from Linux lists is that the program is quite problematical, poor keyboard function, inconsistent speech success, lack of navigation, etc. a screen reader as shared at its best is a monitor, with all information presented uniformly..no matter what you are doing. that is a site developer game, not a screen reader one. your window does not create the view after all. JavaScript is a language, it can be written perfectly well to run, even with Lynx, which has keystrokes to compensate for JavaScript links, if coded to work from the keyboard at least. Besides command line Linux is still Linux speaking personally. One might as well use windows instead of Orca, greater history. cheers, Karen On Thu, 17 Oct 2024, tusooa via talk wrote:
Reply is below quoted content.
On Thursday, October 17, 2024 5:26:36 P.M. EDT Karen Lewellen via talk wrote:
absolutely yes. When I visit td's on line portal, I only get silence, nothing link wise for my screen reader to access. Which command line Linux browser are you using? Kare
On Thu, 17 Oct 2024, Alex Kink wrote:
I've been using Linux to successfully access my bank accounts with TD, RBC and CIBC since the year 2000. These are all just websites after all. Is your question rooted in a past experience where you had issues accessing your web banking using a Linux system?
-Alex
On Oct 17, 2024, at 16:39, Karen Lewellen via talk <talk@gtalug.org> wrote:
Hi folks, Anyone using Linux successfully to access their on line bank account? If so, where? TD is not a prospect, so may be opening another account where I can manage a few things this way, if inclusive of course. Happy fall, Karen
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Hi Karen,
Unfortunately, many websites nowadays require JavaScript, which might be not well-supported in text-based web browsers. I tried to open TD's login page in w3m, and it displays a blank page. Elinks ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ ELinks ) seem to have JavaScript support.
That said, if there are no other difficulty for you to use a GUI application, I would recommend using a GUI web browser like Mozilla Firefox, together with the Orca screen reader ( https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/orca ). I just tried opening td.com in Firefox and had Orca read it with no problem. At least I can go to the login page and submit. I do not have a TD account so I do not know how it would sound like after login.
Best regards, tusooa
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tusooa via talk wrote on 2024-10-17 16:40:
Unfortunately, many websites nowadays require JavaScript,
Why is that unfortunate? It's how we get full applications delivered via the internet instead of hoping someone develops either cross-platform or specific Linux applications. Or have to run software via WINE-like emulation.
which might be not well-supported in text-based web browsers. The V8 JS engine that powers Chrome is available stand-alone, open-sourced.
It could be brought in to a text-based browser. I can imagine it would be a challenge, but any browser would be difficult to write & maintain. There are Python tools (Selenium?) that allow one to incorporate an entire browser engine as a module for manipulating web sites programmatically.
On 10/17/24 16:39, Karen Lewellen via talk wrote:
Hi folks, Anyone using Linux successfully to access their on line bank account? If so, where? TD is not a prospect, so may be opening another account where I can manage a few things this way, if inclusive of course. Happy fall, Karen
I use both my Linux computer and Android phone to access my accounts at RBC and CIBC. No problems at all. What problem are you experiencing.
Just answered that, so will repeat the question. My Linux access is command line. Which command line Linux browser are you using? Physically cannot use Android. Karen On Thu, 17 Oct 2024, James Knott via talk wrote:
On 10/17/24 16:39, Karen Lewellen via talk wrote:
Hi folks, Anyone using Linux successfully to access their on line bank account? If so, where? TD is not a prospect, so may be opening another account where I can manage a few things this way, if inclusive of course. Happy fall, Karen
I use both my Linux computer and Android phone to access my accounts at RBC and CIBC. No problems at all. What problem are you experiencing. --- Post to this mailing list talk@gtalug.org Unsubscribe from this mailing list https://gtalug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
Karen Lewellen via talk wrote on 2024-10-17 13:39:
TD is not a prospect
Is this related to the re-design of TD? I just encountered it today for the first time. Works with Linux, but no idea about screen readers, which would be crucial. There's been lots of "fun" changes out there today.
I had no idea there has been a change. On line banking has never worked for me, with asking TD getting them to say they do not support Linux. Still I ask what command line Linux tool you are using, as that is more critical then anything. Especially given Linux is somewhat layered where screen readers are generally. Kare On Thu, 17 Oct 2024, Ron / BCLUG via talk wrote:
Karen Lewellen via talk wrote on 2024-10-17 13:39:
TD is not a prospect
Is this related to the re-design of TD?
I just encountered it today for the first time. Works with Linux, but no idea about screen readers, which would be crucial.
There's been lots of "fun" changes out there today.
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Hello Karen, I just tested logging in to my www.td.com [1] Easyweb account. Had no problem getting logged in. The TD website offered me a choice of receiving the SECURITY CODE via phone call or text message. I chose PHONE CALL because I have no texting service. I receive the automated phone call on my Bell Canada Fibe land line phone and the synthesized voice read out the 8-digi security code twice. On the first call from the voice synthesizer, I could not decipher the pronunciation of the first digit of the code spoken. So, I simply requested another phone call, which call provided a more comprehensible readout of the new 8-digit security code. I logged in to Easyweb using my 16 digit TD Access Card number and 8-character alphanumeric password A TD agent on a previous call had told me that any alphabetic characters in the password MUST BE ALL CAPITAL LETTERS (NO LOWER CASE). I'm using Firefox Browser Extended Support Release 91.13.0esr (64-bit) on Debian 11 linux. Pastes from command line: ... user@debian:~$ lsb_release -a No LSB modules are available. Distributor ID: Debian Description: Debian GNU/Linux 11 (bullseye) Release: 11 Codename: bullseye user@debian:~$ ... user@debian:~$ lsb_release -a No LSB modules are available. Distributor ID: Debian Description: Debian GNU/Linux 11 (bullseye) Release: 11 Codename: bullseye user@debian:~$ uname -srm Linux 5.10.0-20-amd64 x86_64 user@debian:~$ ... Hope this helps. Steve Petrie -------- Original Message -------- SUBJECT: [GTALUG] Linux and on line banking? DATE: 2024-10-17 16:39 FROM: Karen Lewellen via talk <talk@gtalug.org> TO: talk@gtalug.org Hi folks, Anyone using Linux successfully to access their on line bank account? If so, where? TD is not a prospect, so may be opening another account where I can manage a few things this way, if inclusive of course. Happy fall, Karen --- Post to this mailing list talk@gtalug.org Unsubscribe from this mailing list https://gtalug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk Links: ------ [1] http://www.td.com
A TD agent on a previous call had told me that any alphabetic characters in the password MUST BE ALL CAPITAL LETTERS (NO LOWER CASE).
Haha, what?! The agent was either trolling you or they were completely incompetent. Combination of any ASCII characters has worked with them (looking through my 12 year history of randomly generated passwords for Easyweb in my password manager). Anyway, she is using text based browsers, so Firefox is a no go.
On Oct 18, 2024, at 09:26, Steve Petrie via talk <talk@gtalug.org> wrote:
Hello Karen, I just tested logging in to my www.td.com Easyweb account. Had no problem getting logged in. The TD website offered me a choice of receiving the SECURITY CODE via phone call or text message. I chose PHONE CALL because I have no texting service. I receive the automated phone call on my Bell Canada Fibe land line phone and the synthesized voice read out the 8-digi security code twice. On the first call from the voice synthesizer, I could not decipher the pronunciation of the first digit of the code spoken. So, I simply requested another phone call, which call provided a more comprehensible readout of the new 8-digit security code. I logged in to Easyweb using my 16 digit TD Access Card number and 8-character alphanumeric password A TD agent on a previous call had told me that any alphabetic characters in the password MUST BE ALL CAPITAL LETTERS (NO LOWER CASE). I'm using Firefox Browser Extended Support Release 91.13.0esr (64-bit) on Debian 11 linux. Pastes from command line: ... user@debian:~$ lsb_release -a No LSB modules are available. Distributor ID: Debian Description: Debian GNU/Linux 11 (bullseye) Release: 11 Codename: bullseye user@debian:~$ ... user@debian:~$ lsb_release -a No LSB modules are available. Distributor ID: Debian Description: Debian GNU/Linux 11 (bullseye) Release: 11 Codename: bullseye user@debian:~$ uname -srm Linux 5.10.0-20-amd64 x86_64 user@debian:~$ ... Hope this helps. Steve Petrie -------- Original Message -------- Subject: [GTALUG] Linux and on line banking? Date: 2024-10-17 16:39 From: Karen Lewellen via talk <talk@gtalug.org> To: talk@gtalug.org Hi folks, Anyone using Linux successfully to access their on line bank account? If so, where? TD is not a prospect, so may be opening another account where I can manage a few things this way, if inclusive of course. Happy fall, Karen
--- Post to this mailing list talk@gtalug.org Unsubscribe from this mailing list https://gtalug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk --- Post to this mailing list talk@gtalug.org Unsubscribe from this mailing list https://gtalug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
Hi Steve, Which command line Linux tool did You use for this adventure? I am pleased to know someone still has bell landline. In spite of my doctors and my best effort bell not only still continues to refuse me, they prevented teksavy from installing the service, after pocketing more than a dozen installation appointment fees. I am at the ccts now, but given analog is a medical need, its absence is rather a physical and emotional mess for me if I am honest. Cheers, Karen On Fri, 18 Oct 2024, Steve Petrie via talk wrote:
Hello Karen,
I just tested logging in to my www.td.com [1] Easyweb account. Had no problem getting logged in.
The TD website offered me a choice of receiving the SECURITY CODE via phone call or text message. I chose PHONE CALL because I have no texting service.
I receive the automated phone call on my Bell Canada Fibe land line phone and the synthesized voice read out the 8-digi security code twice.
On the first call from the voice synthesizer, I could not decipher the pronunciation of the first digit of the code spoken.
So, I simply requested another phone call, which call provided a more comprehensible readout of the new 8-digit security code.
I logged in to Easyweb using my 16 digit TD Access Card number and 8-character alphanumeric password
A TD agent on a previous call had told me that any alphabetic characters in the password MUST BE ALL CAPITAL LETTERS (NO LOWER CASE).
I'm using Firefox Browser Extended Support Release 91.13.0esr (64-bit) on Debian 11 linux.
Pastes from command line: ... user@debian:~$ lsb_release -a No LSB modules are available. Distributor ID: Debian Description: Debian GNU/Linux 11 (bullseye) Release: 11 Codename: bullseye user@debian:~$ ... user@debian:~$ lsb_release -a No LSB modules are available. Distributor ID: Debian Description: Debian GNU/Linux 11 (bullseye) Release: 11 Codename: bullseye user@debian:~$ uname -srm Linux 5.10.0-20-amd64 x86_64 user@debian:~$ ...
Hope this helps.
Steve Petrie
-------- Original Message --------
SUBJECT: [GTALUG] Linux and on line banking?
DATE: 2024-10-17 16:39
FROM: Karen Lewellen via talk <talk@gtalug.org>
TO: talk@gtalug.org
Hi folks, Anyone using Linux successfully to access their on line bank account? If so, where? TD is not a prospect, so may be opening another account where I can manage a few things this way, if inclusive of course. Happy fall, Karen
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Links: ------ [1] http://www.td.com
I just tried 'lynx' and 'links' on TD and BMO, and got blank page. RBC does return something, but soon it asks you to enable JavaScript. But, going directly to my RBC login bookmark, I get something that looks like username and password. -- On 2024-10-17 16:39, Karen Lewellen via talk wrote:
Hi folks, Anyone using Linux successfully to access their on line bank account? If so, where? TD is not a prospect, so may be opening another account where I can manage a few things this way, if inclusive of course. Happy fall, Karen
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participants (12)
-
Alex Kink -
bitmap -
D. Hugh Redelmeier -
James Knott -
Karen Lewellen -
Lennart Sorensen -
Ron / BCLUG -
Scott Allen -
Steve Litt -
Steve Petrie -
tusooa -
William Park