Greetings Question re: Firefox behavior on a clean shutdown and reboot. Firefox is set to reload previous pages and tabs upon a restart. My system is LOADED with memory - - - - 64 GB in fact. Am also running multi-gpu and wanting to run with all 5 of my monitors but nouveau isn't up to running the 4k monitor yet! I use a large number of virtual desktops as well. As a result I get grumpy when programs don't allow me to work using my particular system. I will admit that I can get to over 25 pages open - - - I start a page for every topic I'm looking at. That's a page for every interest or every function (online tools/activities). There also tends to get to be a lot of tabs. I work had at keeping to under 40 to 50 tabs per age but there are usually a few pages where the number of tabs goes nuts. Because nouveau really doesn't like functioning with my setup (proprietary code is far worse!!! nvidia hates multi-gpu now although they didn't when I set up the system!) so system restarts are forced upon me far more often that I would like. Because of the forced system restarts I get to task firefox-esr in setting up the way it was before the system went down. Are there hard limits that force Firefox to not renew pages as they were (so more than xx number of pages)? Are there hard limits that force Firefox to not renew 'a' page (I've had this happen where one page doesn't renew but all the rest do)? If there are no 'hard' limits (programmed in per se) are there amounts of pages or tabs or perhaps tabs/page or something else from this stew that greater than xx tabs or yy pages or even a small number of pages having more than xy tabs where such activity results in firefox not restarting as it is listed to do so (restart the pages and tabs present upon shutdown) is considered 'usual'? I am trying to find parameters where I'm not faced with what I have right now. There were about 30 odd different pages and from 15 to who knows how many tabs per page. Some tabs were held as I was working on business deals. Re-establishing this amount of stuff is a royal pita. If I know that any behavior over a level described as 'x' is dangerous then I can work hard to stay under those levels. Please advise
On Sat, Oct 9, 2021 at 3:30 PM o1bigtenor via talk <talk@gtalug.org> wrote:
Greetings
Question re: Firefox behavior on a clean shutdown and reboot.
Firefox is set to reload previous pages and tabs upon a restart. My system is LOADED with memory - - - - 64 GB in fact. Am also running multi-gpu and wanting to run with all 5 of my monitors but nouveau isn't up to running the 4k monitor yet! I use a large number of virtual desktops as well. As a result I get grumpy when programs don't allow me to work using my particular system. I will admit that I can get to over 25 pages open - - - I start a page for every topic I'm looking at. That's a page for every interest or every function (online tools/activities). There also tends to get to be a lot of tabs. I work had at keeping to under 40 to 50 tabs per age but there are usually a few pages where the number of tabs goes nuts. Because nouveau really doesn't like functioning with my setup (proprietary code is far worse!!! nvidia hates multi-gpu now although they didn't when I set up the system!) so system restarts are forced upon me far more often that I would like. Because of the forced system restarts I get to task firefox-esr in setting up the way it was before the system went down.
Are there hard limits that force Firefox to not renew pages as they were (so more than xx number of pages)? Are there hard limits that force Firefox to not renew 'a' page (I've had this happen where one page doesn't renew but all the rest do)? If there are no 'hard' limits (programmed in per se) are there amounts of pages or tabs or perhaps tabs/page or something else from this stew that greater than xx tabs or yy pages or even a small number of pages having more than xy tabs where such activity results in firefox not restarting as it is listed to do so (restart the pages and tabs present upon shutdown) is considered 'usual'? I am trying to find parameters where I'm not faced with what I have right now. There were about 30 odd different pages and from 15 to who knows how many tabs per page. Some tabs were held as I was working on business deals. Re-establishing this amount of stuff is a royal pita. If I know that any behavior over a level described as 'x' is dangerous then I can work hard to stay under those levels.
Please advise
(edited to add subject - - - argh!)
All my knowledge of FF is superstition, not science. The specifications, the manual, and the code base are too large to understand. If I type ^Q in FF, I am currently told that I have 53 windows with 386 tabs. Then I tell it not to quit. This shows bad discipline on my part. Go to URL "about:performance" for some hints about what different tabs cost. I'm not sure that it is accurate. Superstition: when things get bad, quit and restart. Model: garbage collection of something is imperfect. Superstition: some pages are way more expensive than others -- a simple page-count isn't a great measure Superstition: javascript eats my CPU. Sometimes it makes my coputer's fans sping up. Sometimes FF tels me FF is taking a lot of CPU.. Often it is on Globe and Mail pages. | From: o1bigtenor via talk <talk@gtalug.org> | > Are there hard limits that force Firefox to not renew pages as they were | > (so more than xx number of pages)? What do you mean by "renew pages"? Is that "reload"? ^R | > Are there hard limits that force Firefox to not renew 'a' page (I've had | > this happen where one page doesn't renew but all the rest do)? I'd take it as a sign to close tabs you don't need any longer, quit FF, and then restart it. | > If there are no 'hard' limits (programmed in per se) are there amounts of | > pages or tabs or perhaps tabs/page or something else from this stew that | > greater than xx tabs or yy pages or even a small number of pages having | > more than xy tabs where such activity results in firefox not restarting as | > it is listed to do so (restart the pages and tabs present upon shutdown) is | > considered 'usual'? | > I am trying to find parameters where I'm not faced with what I have right | > now. I think that it just runs out of RAM or processor cycles. | > There were about 30 odd different pages and from 15 to who knows how many | > tabs per page. Some tabs were held as I was working on business deals. | > Re-establishing this amount of stuff is a royal pita. If I know that any | > behavior over a level described as 'x' is dangerous then I can work hard to | > stay under those levels. Superstition: no. | > Please advise Cut down on tabs. FF is a lot snappier, starting and running, when it isn't dragging all those tabs around. You could start up another browser (I use Chromium) if you hav something quick to do and FF isn't yet started.
On Sat, Oct 9, 2021 at 8:12 PM D. Hugh Redelmeier via talk <talk@gtalug.org> wrote:
All my knowledge of FF is superstition, not science. The specifications, the manual, and the code base are too large to understand.
If I type ^Q in FF, I am currently told that I have 53 windows with 386 tabs. Then I tell it not to quit. This shows bad discipline on my part.
'bad disciple' regarding what - - - - not following through with the quit or ????
Go to URL "about:performance" for some hints about what different tabs cost. I'm not sure that it is accurate.
Superstition: when things get bad, quit and restart. Model: garbage collection of something is imperfect.
Superstition: some pages are way more expensive than others -- a simple page-count isn't a great measure
I've found that parking a page on a 'new tab' helps longevity (smile).
Superstition: javascript eats my CPU. Sometimes it makes my coputer's fans sping up. Sometimes FF tels me FF is taking a lot of CPU.. Often it is on Globe and Mail pages.
| From: o1bigtenor via talk <talk@gtalug.org>
| > Are there hard limits that force Firefox to not renew pages as they were | > (so more than xx number of pages)?
What do you mean by "renew pages"? Is that "reload"? ^R
I'm not sure what the 'correct' term is!!! You've restarted your system. You ask for FF to be started. Typically I have been asked if I wish to 'restore' to the previous. (Firefox is set to restore previous session.)
| > Are there hard limits that force Firefox to not renew 'a' page (I've had | > this happen where one page doesn't renew but all the rest do)?
I'd take it as a sign to close tabs you don't need any longer, quit FF, and then restart it.
FF has already been shut down and then asked to restore. My question is - - - at what point in the use of resources does FF decide to 'not' honor the requested 'restore previous session'. That not restore can be selective - - - if one page has a plethora of tabs - - such a page may 'not' be restored even if all the other pages are. This last iteration for me - - - - well all the pages and all the tabs were not restored. That was the prompt for asking about what the are.
| > If there are no 'hard' limits (programmed in per se) are there amounts of | > pages or tabs or perhaps tabs/page or something else from this stew that | > greater than xx tabs or yy pages or even a small number of pages having | > more than xy tabs where such activity results in firefox not restarting as | > it is listed to do so (restart the pages and tabs present upon shutdown) is | > considered 'usual'? | > I am trying to find parameters where I'm not faced with what I have right | > now.
I think that it just runs out of RAM or processor cycles.
Hmmmmm - - - - so how many TB of ram does it take so this condition doesn't happen? snip Thanks for the response Regards
| From: o1bigtenor via talk <talk@gtalug.org> | On Sat, Oct 9, 2021 at 8:12 PM D. Hugh Redelmeier via talk <talk@gtalug.org> | wrote: | > This shows bad discipline on | > my part. | > | | 'bad disciple' regarding what - - - - not following through with the quit | or ???? Not keeping my quantity of tabs down. | I've found that parking a page on a 'new tab' helps longevity (smile). Yeah. Superstition: tabs that are not the selected tab in a window gets less attention. Less Javascript? Who knows. | > | From: o1bigtenor via talk <talk@gtalug.org> | > | > | > Are there hard limits that force Firefox to not renew pages as they were | > | > (so more than xx number of pages)? | > What do you mean by "renew pages"? Is that "reload"? ^R | | I'm not sure what the 'correct' term is!!! | You've restarted your system. | You ask for FF to be started. | Typically I have been asked if I wish to 'restore' to the previous. | (Firefox is set to restore previous session.) So maybe the term is "restore"? | FF has already been shut down and then asked to restore. | My question is - - - at what point in the use of resources does FF decide | to | 'not' honor the requested 'restore previous session'. | That not restore can be selective - - - if one page has a plethora of tabs | - - | such a page may 'not' be restored even if all the other pages are. | This last iteration for me - - - - well all the pages and all the tabs were | not | restored. That was the prompt for asking about what the are. I don't think that it is documented. I guess that this is a "soft landing" for being out of resources. Maybe you'll get a chance to ask at tonight's meeting. Our speaker is from Mozilla. | > | > | > If there are no 'hard' limits (programmed in per se) are there amounts of | > | > pages or tabs or perhaps tabs/page or something else from this stew that | > | > greater than xx tabs or yy pages or even a small number of pages having | > | > more than xy tabs where such activity results in firefox not restarting as | > | > it is listed to do so (restart the pages and tabs present upon shutdown) is | > | > considered 'usual'? | > | > I am trying to find parameters where I'm not faced with what I have right | > | > now. | > | > I think that it just runs out of RAM or processor cycles. | > | | Hmmmmm - - - - so how many TB of ram does it take so this condition doesn't | happen? I assume that it uses all the resources it can. And you use all the tabs you can. I know that I can have way way more tabs on a 24G machine than a 4G machine. I know that a beefier CPU is better able to handl lots of tabs. Some of which have horribly expensive javascript. Some of which is from the ads that they have no control over.
On Tue, Oct 12, 2021 at 01:54:31PM -0400, D. Hugh Redelmeier via talk wrote:
Not keeping my quantity of tabs down.
Hmm, just noticed my tab count (in the main window) of my firefox says 503 tabs (not counting tabs in other windows although those have a lot less). I think I better do some purging. -- Len Sorensen
| From: Lennart Sorensen via talk <talk@gtalug.org> | Hmm, just noticed my tab count (in the main window) of my firefox says | 503 tabs (not counting tabs in other windows although those have a | lot less). I think I better do some purging. I have an urge, that I'm resisting, to see what happens with 500 tabs in one window. If you get more tabs than can fit in the tab bar (is that the right name?), the list can scroll. Scrolling through 500 would seem very awkward. There is also a drop down menus showing you the tabs. But 500 in one menu sounds unwieldy. I guess you can fall back on searching for a tab ("% " in the URL.). Len: how do you navigate through 503 tabs in a window?
On Wed, Oct 13, 2021 at 10:11:47AM -0400, D. Hugh Redelmeier via talk wrote:
I have an urge, that I'm resisting, to see what happens with 500 tabs in one window.
If you get more tabs than can fit in the tab bar (is that the right name?), the list can scroll. Scrolling through 500 would seem very awkward. There is also a drop down menus showing you the tabs. But 500 in one menu sounds unwieldy. I guess you can fall back on searching for a tab ("% " in the URL.).
Len: how do you navigate through 503 tabs in a window?
Apparently I don't for the most part. I have a few tabs pinned to the start (gmail, facebook, etc) that I use all the time, then other tabs for stuff I opened to read or look at. Sometimes I forget about them (seems to happen a lot). Of course you can also open a new tab, type the name of a tab and one of the options is to jump to a matching tab that is already open. I would not claim this is working very well. :) But firefox puts up with it most of the time. Chrome would have been dead long ago with this kind of abuse. -- Len Sorensen
On Wed, Oct 13, 2021 at 10:24 AM Lennart Sorensen via talk <talk@gtalug.org> wrote:
On Wed, Oct 13, 2021 at 10:11:47AM -0400, D. Hugh Redelmeier via talk wrote:
I have an urge, that I'm resisting, to see what happens with 500 tabs in one window.
If you get more tabs than can fit in the tab bar (is that the right name?), the list can scroll. Scrolling through 500 would seem very awkward. There is also a drop down menus showing you the tabs. But 500 in one menu sounds unwieldy. I guess you can fall back on searching for a tab ("% " in the URL.).
Len: how do you navigate through 503 tabs in a window?
Apparently I don't for the most part. I have a few tabs pinned to the start (gmail, facebook, etc) that I use all the time, then other tabs for stuff I opened to read or look at. Sometimes I forget about them (seems to happen a lot). Of course you can also open a new tab, type the name of a tab and one of the options is to jump to a matching tab that is already open.
I would not claim this is working very well. :)
But firefox puts up with it most of the time. Chrome would have been dead long ago with this kind of abuse.
Ah yes - - - - my kind of main page - - - - except I've gotten a lot more than 500 tabs on a page. I open tabs to get information - - - just don't get to reading and saving useful stuff. I try to do less but adding 10 tabs in a week is very very easy. Now think say 20 by 8 months . . . (grin!). Regards
Lennart, If you have five hundred tabs open, how do you find anything? On Wed, 13 Oct 2021 09:43:23 -0400 Lennart Sorensen via talk <talk@gtalug.org> wrote:
On Tue, Oct 12, 2021 at 01:54:31PM -0400, D. Hugh Redelmeier via talk wrote:
Not keeping my quantity of tabs down.
Hmm, just noticed my tab count (in the main window) of my firefox says 503 tabs (not counting tabs in other windows although those have a lot less). I think I better do some purging.
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On Wed, Oct 13, 2021 at 11:49:08AM -0400, Howard Gibson via talk wrote:
If you have five hundred tabs open, how do you find anything?
Tab search works quite well, but most of the tabs are things I opened to look at and haven't got to yet. I am sure I have tabs tabs open from a couple of years ago. I would not recommend my system to anyone. I wouldn't claim it works for me. Just that it is what I do. :) -- Len Sorensen
I have a colleague who has a great workflow. Iff he wants to do research on something, he opens a fresh window… opens as many tabs as necessary for the project, then closes the window with all its tabs. I haven’t been able to integrate the discipline yet (my tab/window collection sounds a lot like Lennart’s), but it seems like a good model. ../Dave
So my "only one window and if I can't read each tab title, close some" is well outside the norm here. I think I seldom reach 10 tabs Stewart
On Wed, Oct 13, 2021 at 5:46 PM Stewart Russell via talk <talk@gtalug.org> wrote:
So my "only one window and if I can't read each tab title, close some" is well outside the norm here. I think I seldom reach 10 tabs
Greetings I suppose that's the expected behavior desired by Mozilla. It must be and then the programmers love their 19" monitors - - - you know the 1280x1024 size that was a great idea some 25 or is it 30 years ago and only one monitor - - - - wouldn't want too much screen real estate now - - -yes? Well - - - - its interesting that some can hold things to 10 tabs on a page but if FF expects that kind of workflow - - - - why isn't it up front about it? (Question is more for the general ether rather than Mr Stewart!!!!) Oh well - - - I suppose I should just return to under my bridge . . . . Regards
participants (6)
-
D. Hugh Redelmeier -
David Mason -
Howard Gibson -
Lennart Sorensen -
o1bigtenor -
Stewart Russell