Greetings I've been running an Asus rt-n16 router, using dd-wrt, for about 6.5 years now. On the second one for about 1.5 years and no longer have a spare for the next time the router craters. Am finding it very difficult to determine an update/upgrade for my router. Any suggestions? (Trying to keep the costs down too, please.) Regards Dee
o1bigtenor via talk wrote:
I've been running an Asus rt-n16 router, using dd-wrt, for about 6.5 years now. On the second one for about 1.5 years and no longer have a spare for the next time the router craters.
Am finding it very difficult to determine an update/upgrade for my router.
Any suggestions?
I'm a fan of the TP-Link TL-WR940N, so much that I have recommend it to everyone I know. I have three of them in various locations (home, farm, and HackLab.TO). It's base software is amazing and works great out of the box. I haven't run OpenWRT (an active fork of dd-wrt) on it but I know Scott Sullivan has and he's really smart about this type of stuff. It cost $39.99 on NewEgg <https://myl.be/15a> (this is a short link to the NewEgg website). -- Have an awesome day, and happy open-sourcing :-).
On Tue, Jul 11, 2017 at 9:51 AM, Myles Braithwaite via talk <talk@gtalug.org
wrote:
o1bigtenor via talk wrote:
I've been running an Asus rt-n16 router, using dd-wrt, for about 6.5 years now. On the second one for about 1.5 years and no longer have a spare for the next time the router craters.
Am finding it very difficult to determine an update/upgrade for my router.
Any suggestions?
I'm a fan of the TP-Link TL-WR940N, so much that I have recommend it to everyone I know. I have three of them in various locations (home, farm, and HackLab.TO).
It's base software is amazing and works great out of the box.
I haven't run OpenWRT (an active fork of dd-wrt) on it but I know Scott Sullivan has and he's really smart about this type of stuff.
It cost $39.99 on NewEgg <https://myl.be/15a> (this is a short link to the NewEgg website).
Myles, how's the range on this one? I have an older ASUS that does a good job hitting all four floors (100+ years old Victorian) for the most part, but it's starting to show it's age. -jason
On 07/11/2017 10:09 AM, Jason Shaw via talk wrote:
Myles, how's the range on this one? I have an older ASUS that does a good job hitting all four floors (100+ years old Victorian) for the most part, but it's starting to show it's age.
Well, yes, at 100 years + I guess it would be. ;-)
On Tue, Jul 11, 2017 at 10:17 AM, James Knott via talk <talk@gtalug.org> wrote:
On 07/11/2017 10:09 AM, Jason Shaw via talk wrote:
Myles, how's the range on this one? I have an older ASUS that does a good job hitting all four floors (100+ years old Victorian) for the most part, but it's starting to show it's age.
Well, yes, at 100 years + I guess it would be. ;-)
My wording was terrible there :)
Jason Shaw wrote:
Myles, how's the range on this one? I have an older ASUS that does a good job hitting all four floors (100+ years old Victorian) for the most part, but it's starting to show it's age.
Farms a 150+ year old double brick house and it reaches first and second floors and ~20 feet into the orchard out back. I helped a friends this weekend who wanted access on all four floors of there house. They had a access point on the second floor and it wasn't reaching the basement or the bottom floor. We ended up running an ethernet able from the basement to the top floor and having two access points. It provided the best options. Also getting high bandwidth stuff (i.e. video streaming, gaming desktops, etc) off the Wifi gave the low bandwidth stuff (i.e. laptops, tablets, music streaming, etc) better access.
On 07/11/2017 09:51 AM, Myles Braithwaite via talk wrote:
o1bigtenor via talk wrote:
I've been running an Asus rt-n16 router, using dd-wrt, for about 6.5 years now. On the second one for about 1.5 years and no longer have a spare for the next time the router craters.
Am finding it very difficult to determine an update/upgrade for my router.
Any suggestions? I'm a fan of the TP-Link TL-WR940N, so much that I have recommend it to everyone I know. I have three of them in various locations (home, farm, and HackLab.TO).
It's base software is amazing and works great out of the box.
I haven't run OpenWRT (an active fork of dd-wrt) on it but I know Scott Sullivan has and he's really smart about this type of stuff.
It cost $39.99 on NewEgg <https://myl.be/15a> (this is a short link to the NewEgg website).
One thing to bear in mind these days is whether a router supports IPv6. Some ISPs, such as Rogers, Teksavvy (via ADSL), Cogeco and others are now providing IPv6. If your router doesn't support it, you wont be able to use it. I don't believe that TP-Link router supports IPv6. On the other hand, current versions of DD-WRT do support IPv6. I'm on Rogers and use pfSense, on a refurb computer, for my firewall/router. www.pfsense.org
On Tue, Jul 11, 2017 at 09:51:08AM -0400, Myles Braithwaite via talk wrote:
o1bigtenor via talk wrote:
I've been running an Asus rt-n16 router, using dd-wrt, for about 6.5 years now. On the second one for about 1.5 years and no longer have a spare for the next time the router craters.
Am finding it very difficult to determine an update/upgrade for my router.
Any suggestions?
I'm a fan of the TP-Link TL-WR940N, so much that I have recommend it to everyone I know. I have three of them in various locations (home, farm, and HackLab.TO).
I have Asus RT-N66U which I believe is the top of Wireless-N. Checking Canada Computers and Newegg, you can still buy RT-N16. -- William
On Tue, Jul 11, 2017 at 5:59 PM, William Park via talk <talk@gtalug.org> wrote:
On Tue, Jul 11, 2017 at 09:51:08AM -0400, Myles Braithwaite via talk wrote:
o1bigtenor via talk wrote:
I've been running an Asus rt-n16 router, using dd-wrt, for about 6.5 years now. On the second one for about 1.5 years and no longer have a spare for the next time the router craters.
Am finding it very difficult to determine an update/upgrade for my router.
Any suggestions?
I'm a fan of the TP-Link TL-WR940N, so much that I have recommend it to everyone I know. I have three of them in various locations (home, farm, and HackLab.TO).
I have Asus RT-N66U which I believe is the top of Wireless-N. Checking Canada Computers and Newegg, you can still buy RT-N16.
So - - - I should just buy another one? (asus rt-n16) I'm thinking the one I have might get another 2 years and the next one would need to last until at least 2024 to give good value. Was thinking that an upgrade would be nice by 2019. Dee
On Tue, Jul 11, 2017 at 06:25:23PM -0500, o1bigtenor wrote:
On Tue, Jul 11, 2017 at 5:59 PM, William Park via talk <talk@gtalug.org> wrote:
On Tue, Jul 11, 2017 at 09:51:08AM -0400, Myles Braithwaite via talk wrote:
o1bigtenor via talk wrote:
I've been running an Asus rt-n16 router, using dd-wrt, for about 6.5 years now. On the second one for about 1.5 years and no longer have a spare for the next time the router craters.
Am finding it very difficult to determine an update/upgrade for my router.
Any suggestions?
I'm a fan of the TP-Link TL-WR940N, so much that I have recommend it to everyone I know. I have three of them in various locations (home, farm, and HackLab.TO).
I have Asus RT-N66U which I believe is the top of Wireless-N. Checking Canada Computers and Newegg, you can still buy RT-N16.
So - - - I should just buy another one? (asus rt-n16)
I'm thinking the one I have might get another 2 years and the next one would need to last until at least 2024 to give good value. Was thinking that an upgrade would be nice by 2019.
If you're upgrading, then move to AC. What Myles suggest isn't bad idea, either. TP-Link is cheap and disposable. -- William
On 12/07/17 12:07 AM, William Park via talk wrote:
TP-Link is cheap and disposable.
When I see this phrasing, I think poor quality, and I'm curious if that is your intention? From my own experience, this is not the case. I'v been using TP-Link gear for over a decade, in personal and professional settings (having worked at an ISP). I find TP-Link to be of good quality. Some of my personal units I've had in service for 5 years. Wireless Router: Archer C7 (x2) TL-MR3020 (x3) TL-MR3040 (x1) Tl-WR810N (x1) Switches: TL-SG1008D (x2) TL-SG105 (x2) TL-SF1005D (x1) Managed Switch: TL-SG2008 (x1) Let's not confuse cheap and inexpensive. I've take part routers sold under Bell's name, and various TP-Links. TP-Link has made an art of minimizing costs, without compromising the end product. Tricks like, standing the LEDs on the leads up to the case, instead of using light pipes. Or my favorite, not populating the JR-45 contacts for ports that are only 10/100. This saves half the copper cost per port. There was a point they even did that with the cable shipped in the box, but those days are long behind us. TP-Link waits for a technology and chipset has been proven by a higher tier OEM. They takes advantage of lower cost volume purchasing after the ramp up is done by the chip vendor. TP-Link keeps software costs low, by using and then releasing the open-source code that makes part of their firmware. TP-Link don't waste money on Marketing, or building 'Performance' products that appeal to Egos and number chasers. The are inexpressible, and uninteresting, because it's the tech that's already been shown to work and is known. -- Scott Sullivan
On 07/13/2017 05:03 PM, Scott Sullivan via talk wrote:
From my own experience, this is not the case. I'v been using TP-Link gear for over a decade, in personal and professional settings (having worked at an ISP). I find TP-Link to be of good quality. Some of my personal units I've had in service for 5 years.
I have a TP-Link TL-WA901ND access point. While it generally works well, it has one bug. It supports mulitple SSIDs and VLANs. However, the native LAN leaks into the VLAN, so that anything connected to the 2nd SSID gets the wrong DHCP etc. info. I also have a TL-SG105E managed switch that generally does what it's supposed to, but also has some bugs. So, I'd put them at the lower end of the quality spectrum.
On 13/07/17 05:09 PM, James Knott via talk wrote:
On 07/13/2017 05:03 PM, Scott Sullivan via talk wrote:
From my own experience, this is not the case. I'v been using TP-Link gear for over a decade, in personal and professional settings (having worked at an ISP). I find TP-Link to be of good quality. Some of my personal units I've had in service for 5 years.
I have a TP-Link TL-WA901ND access point. While it generally works well, it has one bug. It supports mulitple SSIDs and VLANs. However, the native LAN leaks into the VLAN, so that anything connected to the 2nd SSID gets the wrong DHCP etc. info.
I also have a TL-SG105E managed switch that generally does what it's supposed to, but also has some bugs.
So, I'd put them at the lower end of the quality spectrum.
Ah, this is a fair point, where I have to clarify myself. I was speaking mostly to the quality of their hardware. Which is above average for similarly priced products. Yes, their software has bugs, and their about where I expect them to be in coverage for their target market. Cisco has equally numerous number of bugs, but their more obscure in odd edge cases because their users push that it harder, and pay to be able to push extremes. I also for the most part replace the software on my routers. These days that's LEDE, the fork of OpenWRT that's actually getting things done, and making regular releases. -- Scott Sullivan
On 13/07/17 05:17 PM, Scott Sullivan via talk wrote:
On 13/07/17 05:09 PM, James Knott via talk wrote:
On 07/13/2017 05:03 PM, Scott Sullivan via talk wrote:
From my own experience, this is not the case. I'v been using TP-Link gear for over a decade, in personal and professional settings (having worked at an ISP). I find TP-Link to be of good quality. Some of my personal units I've had in service for 5 years.
I have a TP-Link TL-WA901ND access point. While it generally works well, it has one bug. It supports mulitple SSIDs and VLANs. However, the native LAN leaks into the VLAN, so that anything connected to the 2nd SSID gets the wrong DHCP etc. info.
I also have a TL-SG105E managed switch that generally does what it's supposed to, but also has some bugs.
So, I'd put them at the lower end of the quality spectrum.
Ah, this is a fair point, where I have to clarify myself.
I was speaking mostly to the quality of their hardware. Which is above average for similarly priced products.
Yes, their software has bugs, and their about where I expect them to be in coverage for their target market.
Cisco has equally numerous number of bugs, but their more obscure in odd edge cases because their users push that it harder, and pay to be able to push extremes.
On the subject of decent hardware, ruined by bad software.... DO NOT BUY ZyXEL! You may have fond memorys from the 80s, well their software hasn't changed since then! I recently bought this, and I was the sucker. ZyXEL GS2210-24 Managed 24-port GbE L2 Switch https://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16833181415CVF My goal was to find a decently featured switch, with the on requirement of it being Fan-less. This was because it was going to live in my livingroom / office of my apartment. I didn't want to have high speed fans next to my head. (I used to have a 24-port Dell PowerConnect at my last residence). Fuck I've never been so pissed off by a piece of kit. No tab completion, no proper backspacing, UI terminology that doesn't make sense. SSH implementation, with out of date algorithms and key sizes. That require special flags to decrease modern ssh's security, just to connect. Only ever one firmware update published. The webUI was even worse, it would make a UX designer cry. You want to configure your admin password, drill down the menu, then click a link on page to get an almost web-ring like set of page that aren't in the menu. Now repeat for every setting, so that it's a literal maze. Oh you want to create a VLAN, we'll select every port, and not give you a toggle all button! Yeah, that got RMA'd fast. -- Scott Sullivan
On 07/13/2017 05:32 PM, Scott Sullivan via talk wrote:
On 13/07/17 05:17 PM, Scott Sullivan via talk wrote:
On 13/07/17 05:09 PM, James Knott via talk wrote:
On 07/13/2017 05:03 PM, Scott Sullivan via talk wrote:
From my own experience, this is not the case. I'v been using TP-Link gear for over a decade, in personal and professional settings (having worked at an ISP). I find TP-Link to be of good quality. Some of my personal units I've had in service for 5 years.
I have a TP-Link TL-WA901ND access point. While it generally works well, it has one bug. It supports mulitple SSIDs and VLANs. However, the native LAN leaks into the VLAN, so that anything connected to the 2nd SSID gets the wrong DHCP etc. info.
I also have a TL-SG105E managed switch that generally does what it's supposed to, but also has some bugs.
So, I'd put them at the lower end of the quality spectrum.
Ah, this is a fair point, where I have to clarify myself.
I was speaking mostly to the quality of their hardware. Which is above average for similarly priced products.
Yes, their software has bugs, and their about where I expect them to be in coverage for their target market.
Cisco has equally numerous number of bugs, but their more obscure in odd edge cases because their users push that it harder, and pay to be able to push extremes.
On Cisco. In 20 years of running an ISP and working with various largish Cisco customers. The only time I have seen a bad port on a switch(baring a lightning strike) is with Cisco and one client had close to 100 bad ports over a couple of thousand ports.
On the subject of decent hardware, ruined by bad software....
DO NOT BUY ZyXEL!
You may have fond memorys from the 80s, well their software hasn't changed since then!
I recently bought this, and I was the sucker.
[snip] Has anybody seen a reasonably in-expensive switch that can have the firmware replaced with an openflow enabled linux? I keep hoping to see someone do an openwrt like thing on D-Link, Netgear, or other cheap reliable switch. -- Alvin Starr || land: (905)513-7688 Netvel Inc. || Cell: (416)806-0133 alvin@netvel.net ||
On 07/13/2017 05:17 PM, Scott Sullivan via talk wrote:
I also for the most part replace the software on my routers. These days that's LEDE, the fork of OpenWRT that's actually getting things done, and making regular releases.
Well, there's this: https://www.theregister.co.uk/2017/05/10/openwrt_and_lede_peace_plan/ Since TP-link is open source, perhaps someone more knowledgeable than I could fix that access point bug. ;-)
On 13/07/17 05:32 PM, James Knott via talk wrote:
On 07/13/2017 05:17 PM, Scott Sullivan via talk wrote:
I also for the most part replace the software on my routers. These days that's LEDE, the fork of OpenWRT that's actually getting things done, and making regular releases.
Well, there's this: https://www.theregister.co.uk/2017/05/10/openwrt_and_lede_peace_plan/
http://lists.infradead.org/pipermail/lede-dev/2017-May/007336.html Ah, nice, their keeping all the good bits of the new Infrastructure built by the LEDE team. Happy to see that.
| From: James Knott via talk <talk@gtalug.org> | On 07/13/2017 05:17 PM, Scott Sullivan via talk wrote: | > I also for the most part replace the software on my routers. These | > days that's LEDE, the fork of OpenWRT that's actually getting things | > done, and making regular releases. Easier said than done. Almost all routers aimed at "consumers" and small businesses are based on Linux. (I imagine Apple's are based on BSD.) In fact, almost all of the stack appears to be based on open sourcee. There are a couple of points where things become grim. - all seem to have proprietary closed-source kernel modules to drive hardware bits like radios and switches - too often, and increasingly, the bootloaders are locked down. + this is called "tivoisation" by the FSF (if I remember correctly) + this is convenient for the vendor since they don't have to support "tampered" boxes. + users cannot update obsoleted hardware + embarassing security flaws and other bugs are somewhat hidden + the US FCC has all-but required this to ensure the implementation of their regulations regarding radio frequencies and powers. There are other ways of implementing the FCC limitations but that would require more hardware and re-engineering. - most vendors use software created in China where GPL compliance appears not to be understood. | Well, there's this: | https://www.theregister.co.uk/2017/05/10/openwrt_and_lede_peace_plan/ | | Since TP-link is open source, perhaps someone more knowledgeable than I | could fix that access point bug. ;-) Example tale of woe. As you may know, I implemented parts of IPSec for Linux. I included a feature where bare RSA keys could be used for authentication (without being wrapped in X.509 certificates). I read the manual for the Linksys WRV200n (I think that I've got the name right). Without using the name "FreeS/WAN", it was clear that it was running our code. And it had the feature of bare RSA keys. So I bought it at Canada Computers for a modest price. When I got it home, I found that it did not support bare RSA keys. I contacted Linksys who said that it was a bug in the manual (upon which I'd based my purchase decision). I was armed with the GPL, so I did not return the unit. I asked for the source code. Linksys would not release it. Not to me, the author of the code (which gives me no special rights except to terminate their license) nor as a person to whom they distributed a binary (and thus did have rights). The device was quite buggy. It would crash (not for me -- I never used it). There were lots of complaints on the forums. Linksys once in a while issued new firmware, but reliability was never reached. Eventually Linksys released source for the GPLed components. Nobody was able to build and install it. I never even tried: it takes a special kind of patience to do the reverse engineering required. But others did. It was too late for me to care anyway. If Linksys had released enough to allow us to rebuild the system, we might have been able to increase the reliability. But perhaps not -- the lock-up bugs might well have been in proprietary drivers. This product left a bad taste with many users. Even the pragmatic ones that just wanted a working router. I suspect that Linksys was unhappy too, I think that the next linksys-branded wireless router I bought was the WRT1900acs, close to a decade later. I bought it because it appears to be one of the last promised-to-be-open wireless router. In practice, I use PCs as routers and use wireless routhers only as access points. With open source, products can get better after release. Without it, the chances are unlikely and out of the control of customers.
On Fri, Jul 14, 2017 at 01:53:06PM -0400, D. Hugh Redelmeier via talk wrote:
+ the US FCC has all-but required this to ensure the implementation of their regulations regarding radio frequencies and powers. There are other ways of implementing the FCC limitations but that would require more hardware and re-engineering.
Fortunately at least some vendors who have gone with the simple way to deal with the FCC has only done so for US models. Some have not been that smart. Some have done it properly even in the US on some models. -- Len Sorensen
On 11/07/17 07:25 PM, o1bigtenor via talk wrote:
So - - - I should just buy another one? (asus rt-n16)
I'm thinking the one I have might get another 2 years and the next one would need to last until at least 2024 to give good value. Was thinking that an upgrade would be nice by 2019.
Dee
I'm kinda disappointed that no one has asked what you hope to get out of your upgrade? # Faster Wifi? We are on 802.11ac Wave 2 new, two generation beyond N, and with AD coming in a year or so. Do you have devices that would take advantage of that? # Better Networking? What are your current Internet Speeds, are you expecting to upgrade them to 100Mbps, or lucky enough to get 1Gbps? # IPv6 Support? Do you have a provider offering this? (Yes, if on Teksavvy DSL) # Budget? $50, $150, $500, I've got recommendation in each category. People are throwing out suggestion without understanding your needs. Please tells us more about why your upgrading, beside just 'it's old'. If the current hardware is mostly meeting your needs, what are your concerns or pain points? -- Scott Sullivan
On 07/13/2017 04:09 PM, Scott Sullivan via talk wrote:
# IPv6 Support?
Do you have a provider offering this? (Yes, if on Teksavvy DSL)
I mentioned that point. Rogers and Cogeco are also providing IPv6. Even if your ISP is not yet providing it, with some routers you can use a 6in4 tunnel to get IPv6. I did that for 6 years, before Rogers provided IPv6. Some ISPs use 6rd to provide IPv6. Rogers did that, before they offered it natively. Again, the router has to support it.
On Thu, Jul 13, 2017 at 04:09:21PM -0400, Scott Sullivan via talk wrote:
We are on 802.11ac Wave 2 new, two generation beyond N, and with AD coming in a year or so. Do you have devices that would take advantage of that?
AD? I have heard of AX, but not AD. Oh actually I guess I had heard of AD now that I google it, but that's the 60GHz stuff, where as AX is the next gen after AC in current bands. I wonder what the range on 60 GHz will be. Linksys claims effective range of AD of 30 feet, so in room highspeed wireless, but not in house. -- Len Sorensen
On Thu, Jul 13, 2017 at 3:09 PM, Scott Sullivan via talk <talk@gtalug.org> wrote:
On 11/07/17 07:25 PM, o1bigtenor via talk wrote:
So - - - I should just buy another one? (asus rt-n16)
I'm thinking the one I have might get another 2 years and the next one would need to last until at least 2024 to give good value. Was thinking that an upgrade would be nice by 2019.
Dee
I'm kinda disappointed that no one has asked what you hope to get out of your upgrade?
# Faster Wifi?
We are on 802.11ac Wave 2 new, two generation beyond N, and with AD coming in a year or so. Do you have devices that would take advantage of that?
As the technology keeps moving what I have for the last 6.5 years is likely to be a little short in another 4 or 5. Part of the reason for an upgrade.
# Better Networking?
What are your current Internet Speeds, are you expecting to upgrade them to 100Mbps, or lucky enough to get 1Gbps?
We're out in the country - - - that means that 10 Mb is FAST (I know its not but the ISPs want us to think so!!!). Working on something so hopefully in maybe a year I might be able to hook into a wireless connection onto a 150 Mb connection but that's not a given. Likely that my availability of anything over 20 Mb is going to be challenging.
# IPv6 Support?
Do you have a provider offering this? (Yes, if on Teksavvy DSL)
They're thinking in maybe a year or so.
# Budget?
$50, $150, $500, I've got recommendation in each category.
Would only be interested in the lower two.
People are throwing out suggestion without understanding your needs. Please tells us more about why your upgrading, beside just 'it's old'. If the current hardware is mostly meeting your needs, what are your concerns or pain points?
My concern is that - - - well it works but if it craters - - - I don't have a backup (had a second RT-N16 that I worked up pdq when the first one died) and would like to have one on hand. If my present router dies it would likely be at least a 2 day wait and likely 4 or 5 before I could easily get something. Would rather dig around and find something before I 'need' to. Thanks for the ideas! Dee
On Tue, Jul 11, 2017 at 08:41:15AM -0500, o1bigtenor via talk wrote:
Greetings
I've been running an Asus rt-n16 router, using dd-wrt, for about 6.5 years now. On the second one for about 1.5 years and no longer have a spare for the next time the router craters.
Am finding it very difficult to determine an update/upgrade for my router.
Any suggestions?
(Trying to keep the costs down too, please.)
Well I have been happy with my linksys WRT1900ACv2 (aka WRT1900ACS) running LEDE (soon to be merged back with OpenWRT). No issues with IPv6, or routing or reaching from the basement to the main and top floors of my townhouse. Not sure if it qualifies as cheap though, but sure has plenty of ram and flash and a good selection of ports. No fan, so no noise, and very little heat. -- Len Sorensen
| From: o1bigtenor via talk <talk@gtalug.org> | I've been running an Asus rt-n16 router, using dd-wrt, for about 6.5 years | now. On the second one for about 1.5 years and no longer have a spare for | the next time the router craters. It depends on what firmware you wish to run. It is always easiest to run stock firmware but there are disadvantages. Here's one: <https://arstechnica.com/security/2017/06/advanced-cia-firmware-turns-home-routers-into-covert-listening-posts/> One simple thing that this highlights: disable UPnP! If you are going to run stock, you should pick a router with decent firmware and a prospect of long-term support. I dislike the politics/governance of dd-wrt and prefer OpenWRT / LEDE. This is theoretical: I don't have a first-hand basis for comparing them. If you pick dd-wrt, I understand that Broadcom-based units are (Brainslayer has NDAs with Broadcom, a useful but worrying thing). I think that dd-wrt lists preferred hardware. If you pick OpenWRT, you can google to find out what OpenWRT people seem to like. They are not as clear as one would hope. It used to be that Atheros chipsets were preferred (open drivers) but I'm not sure about the 802.11ac world. One advertised-to-be-open choice is the Linksys WRT AC series <https://wiki.openwrt.org/toh/linksys/wrt1x00ac_series> Newegg.ca is currently selling a refurb WRT1200AC for $67.99 + shipping + tax. That would seem to be a good price. <https://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=9SIABAK48X8230&AID=10657534> <https://www.linksys.com/ca/p/P-WRT1200AC/> I paid $150 + tax for a refurb WRT1900ACS and consider it a good deal. The hardware seems to be the same except for the radio side. I'm currently only using mine as an access point, with stock firmware so I cannot give a useful review. It does have a lot of hardware resources, including USB 3 and ESATA, lots of RAM, and lots of flash.
On Thu, Jul 20, 2017 at 11:49:31AM -0400, D. Hugh Redelmeier via talk wrote:
| From: o1bigtenor via talk <talk@gtalug.org>
| I've been running an Asus rt-n16 router, using dd-wrt, for about 6.5 years | now. On the second one for about 1.5 years and no longer have a spare for | the next time the router craters.
It depends on what firmware you wish to run.
It is always easiest to run stock firmware but there are disadvantages. Here's one: <https://arstechnica.com/security/2017/06/advanced-cia-firmware-turns-home-routers-into-covert-listening-posts/> One simple thing that this highlights: disable UPnP! If you are going to run stock, you should pick a router with decent firmware and a prospect of long-term support.
I dislike the politics/governance of dd-wrt and prefer OpenWRT / LEDE. This is theoretical: I don't have a first-hand basis for comparing them.
If you pick dd-wrt, I understand that Broadcom-based units are (Brainslayer has NDAs with Broadcom, a useful but worrying thing). I think that dd-wrt lists preferred hardware.
If you pick OpenWRT, you can google to find out what OpenWRT people seem to like. They are not as clear as one would hope. It used to be that Atheros chipsets were preferred (open drivers) but I'm not sure about the 802.11ac world.
One advertised-to-be-open choice is the Linksys WRT AC series <https://wiki.openwrt.org/toh/linksys/wrt1x00ac_series>
Newegg.ca is currently selling a refurb WRT1200AC for $67.99 + shipping + tax. That would seem to be a good price. <https://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=9SIABAK48X8230&AID=10657534> <https://www.linksys.com/ca/p/P-WRT1200AC/>
I paid $150 + tax for a refurb WRT1900ACS and consider it a good deal. The hardware seems to be the same except for the radio side. I'm currently only using mine as an access point, with stock firmware so I cannot give a useful review. It does have a lot of hardware resources, including USB 3 and ESATA, lots of RAM, and lots of flash.
It would seem that the difference between the 1200 and 1900 really is just that the 1200 is 2x2:2, and the 1900 is 4x4:3. I must admit most clients can't use more than 2 streams at the moment, so likely in use you wouldn't notice a difference. -- Len Sorensen
On Thu, Jul 20, 2017 at 11:30 AM, Lennart Sorensen via talk <talk@gtalug.org
wrote:
On Thu, Jul 20, 2017 at 11:49:31AM -0400, D. Hugh Redelmeier via talk wrote:
| From: o1bigtenor via talk <talk@gtalug.org>
| I've been running an Asus rt-n16 router, using dd-wrt, for about 6.5 years | now. On the second one for about 1.5 years and no longer have a spare for | the next time the router craters.
It depends on what firmware you wish to run.
It is always easiest to run stock firmware but there are disadvantages. Here's one: <https://arstechnica.com/security/2017/06/advanced-cia- firmware-turns-home-routers-into-covert-listening-posts/> One simple thing that this highlights: disable UPnP! If you are going to run stock, you should pick a router with decent firmware and a prospect of long-term support.
I dislike the politics/governance of dd-wrt and prefer OpenWRT / LEDE. This is theoretical: I don't have a first-hand basis for comparing them.
If you pick dd-wrt, I understand that Broadcom-based units are (Brainslayer has NDAs with Broadcom, a useful but worrying thing). I think that dd-wrt lists preferred hardware.
If you pick OpenWRT, you can google to find out what OpenWRT people seem to like. They are not as clear as one would hope. It used to be that Atheros chipsets were preferred (open drivers) but I'm not sure about the 802.11ac world.
One advertised-to-be-open choice is the Linksys WRT AC series <https://wiki.openwrt.org/toh/linksys/wrt1x00ac_series>
Newegg.ca is currently selling a refurb WRT1200AC for $67.99 + shipping + tax. That would seem to be a good price. <https://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item= 9SIABAK48X8230&AID=10657534> <https://www.linksys.com/ca/p/P-WRT1200AC/>
I paid $150 + tax for a refurb WRT1900ACS and consider it a good deal. The hardware seems to be the same except for the radio side. I'm currently only using mine as an access point, with stock firmware so I cannot give a useful review. It does have a lot of hardware resources, including USB 3 and ESATA, lots of RAM, and lots of flash.
It would seem that the difference between the 1200 and 1900 really is just that the 1200 is 2x2:2, and the 1900 is 4x4:3.
I must admit most clients can't use more than 2 streams at the moment, so likely in use you wouldn't notice a difference.
Greetings Where 'would' you notice the difference? Dee
On Thu, Jul 20, 2017 at 06:15:10PM -0500, o1bigtenor wrote:
Greetings
Where 'would' you notice the difference?
Well a client that supported 3 streams would be able to get a faster connection than the typical 2 or 1 stream clients. Of course it is possible that in some cases the 4 antenna system would get a better connection to a client and hence slightly faster just due to the position the antennas happen to be in. I have no idea how likely that is. Now a MU-MIMO router could split the streams to different clients at the same time as far as I understand it, but that is not a feature of these routers. Also MU-MIMO only works if the client devices also support the protocol, and almost none do yet. -- Len Sorensen
There was one review on this router that mentioned that the radio was not very good. Is this typical or just someone's bad experience ? Dave Cramer On 21 July 2017 at 07:20, Lennart Sorensen via talk <talk@gtalug.org> wrote:
On Thu, Jul 20, 2017 at 06:15:10PM -0500, o1bigtenor wrote:
Greetings
Where 'would' you notice the difference?
Well a client that supported 3 streams would be able to get a faster connection than the typical 2 or 1 stream clients.
Of course it is possible that in some cases the 4 antenna system would get a better connection to a client and hence slightly faster just due to the position the antennas happen to be in. I have no idea how likely that is.
Now a MU-MIMO router could split the streams to different clients at the same time as far as I understand it, but that is not a feature of these routers. Also MU-MIMO only works if the client devices also support the protocol, and almost none do yet.
-- Len Sorensen --- Talk Mailing List talk@gtalug.org https://gtalug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
On Fri, Jul 21, 2017 at 07:26:38AM -0700, Dave Cramer wrote:
There was one review on this router that mentioned that the radio was not very good. Is this typical or just someone's bad experience ?
Well I keep my 1900 in the basement and two floors above (in a 40 year old townhouse) I have no problem with 2.4 and 5ghz connections to the devices I have around. It's better than the radio in any previous router I have had. So not sure what some people consider good or bad radio. The cpu and radio are both marvell. Maybe some people prefer atheros/qualcomm or broadcom or intel (not sure they do anything on the AP side). -- Len Sorensen
On 07/21/2017 11:29 AM, Lennart Sorensen via talk wrote:
There was one review on this router that mentioned that the radio was not very good. Is this typical or just someone's bad experience ? Well I keep my 1900 in the basement and two floors above (in a 40 year
On Fri, Jul 21, 2017 at 07:26:38AM -0700, Dave Cramer wrote: old townhouse) I have no problem with 2.4 and 5ghz connections to the devices I have around.
It's better than the radio in any previous router I have had.
So not sure what some people consider good or bad radio. The cpu and radio are both marvell. Maybe some people prefer atheros/qualcomm or broadcom or intel (not sure they do anything on the AP side).
The trouble is that the "radio" is really just about signal strength, quality of modulation and sensitivity, demodulation. Received signal strength is about the radio power and the antenna design/placement and stuff between and around the transmitter and receiver. The only way to tell the true quality of the "radio" would be to get some high quality RF test equipment. So a subjective "the radio is not very good" is kind of meaningless in and of itself. -- Alvin Starr || voice: (416)585-9971x690 Interlink Connectivity || fax: (416)585-9974 alvin@iplink.net ||
participants (11)
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Alvin Starr -
D. Hugh Redelmeier -
Dave Cramer -
James Knott -
Jason Shaw -
lsorense＠csclub.uwaterloo.ca -
Myles Braithwaite -
Myles Braithwaite 👾
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o1bigtenor -
Scott Sullivan -
William Park