Graphics cards - - - too much 'joy'
Greetings I had a system built in Jan 2012 which included an Asus P9X79 mobo and 3 Geforce 570 video cards where I've been running a variant of Debian, usually testing, ever since. I ran using 2 of those cards utilizing first fully proprietary drivers and then a couple years ago I shifted to the debian version of the same. This last spring 2 of the 3 cards failed and nvidia retired support for the cards in their current drivers so I went to using nouveau for my graphic card driver. I purchased a Radeon RX570 graphics card and a week ago swapped out Nvidia 570 card. I was unable to even get the system to post on first try (I had all 4 monitors plugged into the gpu). Went back to the Nvidia card and the system is working just fine. Tried the Radeon RX570 again this time only plugging in 1 monitor - - - - the gpu light do come on but I can't tell if much further is happening. I called my purchase point and they requested I send it back to them. They are now telling me that the card is working well on their M$ test machine. I'm not sure what to do or what I did wrong in my install attempt. Any ideas? TIA
On 12/4/19 8:52 PM, o1bigtenor via talk wrote:
Greetings
I had a system built in Jan 2012 which included an Asus P9X79 mobo and 3 Geforce 570 video cards where I've been running a variant of Debian, usually testing, ever since. I ran using 2 of those cards utilizing first fully proprietary drivers and then a couple years ago I shifted to the debian version of the same. This last spring 2 of the 3 cards failed and nvidia retired support for the cards in their current drivers so I went to using nouveau for my graphic card driver. I purchased a Radeon RX570 graphics card and a week ago swapped out Nvidia 570 card. I was unable to even get the system to post on first try (I had all 4 monitors plugged into the gpu). Went back to the Nvidia card and the system is working just fine. Tried the Radeon RX570 again this time only plugging in 1 monitor - - - - the gpu light do come on but I can't tell if much further is happening. I called my purchase point and they requested I send it back to them. They are now telling me that the card is working well on their M$ test machine.
I'm not sure what to do or what I did wrong in my install attempt.
Any ideas?
TIA --- Do you get any beeps or a post screen as that would be the first thing? If you get beeps or a gpu light check the motherboard manual to see if the board is giving a error. LEDS sometimes signal a post error on modern boards.
Nick
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| From: Nicholas Krause via talk <talk@gtalug.org> | On 12/4/19 8:52 PM, o1bigtenor via talk wrote: | > Nvidia card and the system is working just fine. Tried the Radeon | > RX570 again this time only plugging in 1 monitor - - - - the gpu light | > do come on but I can't tell if much further is happening. | Do you get any beeps or a post screen as that would be the first thing? If | you get beeps or a gpu light check the motherboard manual to see if the | board is giving a error. LEDS sometimes signal a post error on modern | boards. Good questions. o1bigtenor: the normal way of showing a POST is running is the display. If the display isn't displaying anything, it is hard to tell whether the POST is running. Perhaps the GPU card requires more power than your power supply provides. In particular, over the years, the balance has changed between the amounts of power used at each supply voltage. Older power supplies didn't even have the right leads for the bonus power connectors on modern video cards. I put a RX570 in an old box (Haswell generation) and I had to replace the power supply to do so. Your motherboard suggests that your system was even older: Sandy Bridge generation. Did your power supply have a lead with a 6-pin connector for the power input on the RX570? Was it capable of supplying 120W? Very unreliable information from the web: GTX570 213W RX570 is rated at 150W These are so unreliable as to be useless. | > I called my | > purchase point and they requested I send it back to them. They are now | > telling me that the card is working well on their M$ test machine. That would be consistent with a power supply problem. And many other problems :-( If you cannot make out beep codes, your could try something like this: <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/POST_card> They ought to be inexpensive. ====================== Your motherboard can support PCIe 3.0 but may require a BIOS (firmware) update to do so: <https://www.asus.com/us/Motherboards/P9X79/>
On Thu, Dec 5, 2019 at 5:29 PM D. Hugh Redelmeier via talk <talk@gtalug.org> wrote:
| From: Nicholas Krause via talk <talk@gtalug.org>
| On 12/4/19 8:52 PM, o1bigtenor via talk wrote:
| > Nvidia card and the system is working just fine. Tried the Radeon | > RX570 again this time only plugging in 1 monitor - - - - the gpu light | > do come on but I can't tell if much further is happening.
| Do you get any beeps or a post screen as that would be the first thing? If | you get beeps or a gpu light check the motherboard manual to see if the | board is giving a error. LEDS sometimes signal a post error on modern | boards.
Good questions.
o1bigtenor: the normal way of showing a POST is running is the display. If the display isn't displaying anything, it is hard to tell whether the POST is running.
I hope that my indicating that nothing would post didn't imply anything beyond that the display showed nothing!
Perhaps the GPU card requires more power than your power supply provides. In particular, over the years, the balance has changed between the amounts of power used at each supply voltage.
Older power supplies didn't even have the right leads for the bonus power connectors on modern video cards.
I put a RX570 in an old box (Haswell generation) and I had to replace the power supply to do so.
Your motherboard suggests that your system was even older: Sandy Bridge generation.
Did your power supply have a lead with a 6-pin connector for the power input on the RX570? Was it capable of supplying 120W?
Very unreliable information from the web: GTX570 213W RX570 is rated at 150W These are so unreliable as to be useless.
Hmmmmmmmmm as I had 3 of the GTX570s in the box for about 7 years I think that there would be enough power - - - - I have a 1200W PSU.
| > I called my | > purchase point and they requested I send it back to them. They are now | > telling me that the card is working well on their M$ test machine.
That would be consistent with a power supply problem. And many other problems :-(
If you cannot make out beep codes, your could try something like this: <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/POST_card> They ought to be inexpensive.
True - - - - system is working right now with the previous singleton graphics card left.
======================
Your motherboard can support PCIe 3.0 but may require a BIOS (firmware) update to do so:
Good point - - - I need to check what bios version i'm running - - - - I think it was the one where PCI3.0 support had been rolled in. Thanks for the ideas!! Pace
| From: o1bigtenor via talk <talk@gtalug.org> | On Thu, Dec 5, 2019 at 5:29 PM D. Hugh Redelmeier via talk | <talk@gtalug.org> wrote: | > Did your power supply have a lead with a 6-pin connector for the power | > input on the RX570? Was it capable of supplying 120W? Sorry, I should have said 8-pin or 6+2 pin (if my google results are correct). You didn't answer.
On Thu, Dec 5, 2019 at 6:18 PM D. Hugh Redelmeier via talk <talk@gtalug.org> wrote:
| From: o1bigtenor via talk <talk@gtalug.org>
| On Thu, Dec 5, 2019 at 5:29 PM D. Hugh Redelmeier via talk | <talk@gtalug.org> wrote:
| > Did your power supply have a lead with a 6-pin connector for the power | > input on the RX570? Was it capable of supplying 120W?
Sorry, I should have said 8-pin or 6+2 pin (if my google results are correct).
You didn't answer.
I think that's where the issue is - - - - the PSU has a 6 + 2 Molex connector setup. The cable looks good - - - cable with external mesh to 'neaten' up the internals - - - - except there are only 7 conductors! One of the ground cables is just not connected - - - - that's on the PSU side - - - there are 8 cables on the card side but NOT on the PSU end. My guess is that the new card just have to have all eight connections. (Stands to reason imo.) Regards
On 12/5/19 8:51 PM, o1bigtenor via talk wrote:
| From: o1bigtenor via talk <talk@gtalug.org>
| On Thu, Dec 5, 2019 at 5:29 PM D. Hugh Redelmeier via talk | <talk@gtalug.org> wrote:
| > Did your power supply have a lead with a 6-pin connector for the power | > input on the RX570? Was it capable of supplying 120W?
Sorry, I should have said 8-pin or 6+2 pin (if my google results are correct).
You didn't answer. I think that's where the issue is - - - - the PSU has a 6 + 2 Molex connector setup. The cable looks good - - - cable with external mesh to 'neaten' up the internals - - - - except there are only 7 conductors! One of the ground cables is just not connected - - - - that's on the PSU side - - - there are 8 cables on
On Thu, Dec 5, 2019 at 6:18 PM D. Hugh Redelmeier via talk <talk@gtalug.org> wrote: the card side but NOT on the PSU end.
My guess is that the new card just have to have all eight connections. (Stands to reason imo.)
Regards --- Post to this mailing list talk@gtalug.org Unsubscribe from this mailing list https://gtalug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk If your going to need a new PSU for this I would recommend going with EVGA or Seasonic as they have PSUs with 10/12 year warranties and here's an example from their high end offerings. https://www.canadacomputers.com/product_info.php?cPath=444&item_id=119416
Most modern PSUs last really long and the connectors haven't changed 6+2 pins have been around for awhile even on a older PSU I bought in 2012. The other other thing is I've assuming you know what a modular PSU is but there all modular now or at least semi excluding 8 pin for CPU and 24 pin for motherboard so buying extra cables is not a problem if they die or you need extras. Nick
| From: o1bigtenor via talk <talk@gtalug.org> | I think that's where the issue is - - - - the PSU has a 6 + 2 Molex connector | setup. The cable looks good - - - cable with external mesh to 'neaten' up the | internals - - - - except there are only 7 conductors! One of the ground cables | is just not connected - - - - that's on the PSU side - - - there are 8 | cables on | the card side but NOT on the PSU end. | | My guess is that the new card just have to have all eight connections. | (Stands to reason imo.) I don't know. It's quite possible that that is normal. Googling should tell you. (I'll leave that to you.) I have found that a spare power supply isn't a bad thing. I've had several systems fail due to power supplies and the symptoms didn't always point clearly to that being the problem.
On Fri, Dec 6, 2019 at 12:47 AM D. Hugh Redelmeier via talk <talk@gtalug.org> wrote:
| From: o1bigtenor via talk <talk@gtalug.org>
| I think that's where the issue is - - - - the PSU has a 6 + 2 Molex connector | setup. The cable looks good - - - cable with external mesh to 'neaten' up the | internals - - - - except there are only 7 conductors! One of the ground cables | is just not connected - - - - that's on the PSU side - - - there are 8 | cables on | the card side but NOT on the PSU end. | | My guess is that the new card just have to have all eight connections. | (Stands to reason imo.)
I don't know. It's quite possible that that is normal. Googling should tell you. (I'll leave that to you.)
Can find pin outs - - - - none of the cable pics are clear enough to count the number of individual runs.
I have found that a spare power supply isn't a bad thing. I've had several systems fail due to power supplies and the symptoms didn't always point clearly to that being the problem.
Thanks for the suggestions.
| From: o1bigtenor via talk <talk@gtalug.org> | Can find pin outs - - - - none of the cable pics are clear enough to count | the number of individual runs. <https://allpinouts.org/pinouts/connectors/power_supply/pci-express-pcie-6pin-power/> <https://allpinouts.org/pinouts/connectors/power_supply/pci-express-pcie-8pin-power/> Or better (but look way down, from "6 Pin PCI Express (PCIe) Power Cable Connector" on): <https://www.moddiy.com/pages/Power-Supply-Connectors-and-Pinouts.html> The original 6 pins are all assigned 12v or ground. The extra pins in the 8 pin connector are just grounds. All seem to be connected. Why two more grounds? Because the 8-pin is supposted to supply more power and "they" added pins to make this new requirement unmistakable. Or maybe they just actually needed two more grounds. You said one pin on your connector was absent. => your connector isn't right I don't know if this matters for your new card. Clearly it does not matter for your old cards. Is the pin missing for each of the connectors used for the old video card?
On Fri, Dec 6, 2019 at 7:50 AM D. Hugh Redelmeier via talk <talk@gtalug.org> wrote:
| From: o1bigtenor via talk <talk@gtalug.org>
| Can find pin outs - - - - none of the cable pics are clear enough to count | the number of individual runs.
<https://allpinouts.org/pinouts/connectors/power_supply/pci-express-pcie-6pin-power/> <https://allpinouts.org/pinouts/connectors/power_supply/pci-express-pcie-8pin-power/>
Or better (but look way down, from "6 Pin PCI Express (PCIe) Power Cable Connector" on):
<https://www.moddiy.com/pages/Power-Supply-Connectors-and-Pinouts.html>
The original 6 pins are all assigned 12v or ground. The extra pins in the 8 pin connector are just grounds. All seem to be connected.
The top row is the issue. The top row are all labelled as ground (IIRC the bottom row are all 12 V. AIUI that is the newer style of connector. In the past there was not uncommonly used a cable w an 8 pin on one end and a 6 + 2 on the other. The 8 pin then on the left hand side had both top and bottom pins labelled as ground so it makes sense that one ground line was omitted - - - - especially as the predominant graphics boards at the time used 2 - 6 pin connectors. https://www.moddiy.com/pages/Power-Supply-Connectors-and-Pinouts.html
Why two more grounds? Because the 8-pin is supposted to supply more power and "they" added pins to make this new requirement unmistakable. Or maybe they just actually needed two more grounds.
You said one pin on your connector was absent. => your connector isn't right
I don't know if this matters for your new card. Clearly it does not matter for your old cards. Is the pin missing for each of the connectors used for the old video card?
First point - - - - see earlier url. Second question - - - yes. Regards
| From: o1bigtenor via talk <talk@gtalug.org> | On Fri, Dec 6, 2019 at 7:50 AM D. Hugh Redelmeier via talk | <talk@gtalug.org> wrote: | > <https://allpinouts.org/pinouts/connectors/power_supply/pci-express-pcie-6pin-power/> | > <https://allpinouts.org/pinouts/connectors/power_supply/pci-express-pcie-8pin-power/> | > | > Or better (but look way down, from "6 Pin PCI Express (PCIe) Power | > Cable Connector" on): | > | > <https://www.moddiy.com/pages/Power-Supply-Connectors-and-Pinouts.html> | > | > The original 6 pins are all assigned 12v or ground. The extra pins in | > the 8 pin connector are just grounds. All seem to be connected. | | The top row is the issue. I'm not 100% sure how the pins are numbered and I'm not 100% sure what the "top" is. | The top row are all labelled as ground (IIRC the bottom row are all 12 V. Careful. Both of the extra two pins are ground. So if the bottom row of the six pin connector were all 12V, that would NOT be true of the 8-pin connector. | AIUI | that is the newer style of connector. In the past there was not uncommonly | used a cable w an 8 pin on one end and a 6 + 2 on the other. The 8 pin then on | the left hand side had both top and bottom pins labelled as ground so it makes | sense that one ground line was omitted - - - - especially as the predominant | graphics boards at the time used 2 - 6 pin connectors. Why does it make sense to omit a ground line? If it is specified to be ground, it ought to be supplied as ground. As I read it, the power supply must supply ground on all the ground pins but the video card is free to not use some of them. If one of the pins from the power supply isn't connected, then the cable is defective. Note: it might be connected within the connector itself via an internal jumper.
On Fri, Dec 06, 2019 at 09:50:45AM -0500, D. Hugh Redelmeier via talk wrote:
Why does it make sense to omit a ground line? If it is specified to be ground, it ought to be supplied as ground. As I read it, the power supply must supply ground on all the ground pins but the video card is free to not use some of them.
If one of the pins from the power supply isn't connected, then the cable is defective.
As long as all 8 pins in the GPU side are connected, it is fine. There doesn't need to be 8 wires going to the power supply to do that.
Note: it might be connected within the connector itself via an internal jumper.
Since the 2 sense wires are just to allow detecting the cable type, they don't carry much current at all, and nothing wrong with connecting them together with a single wire from the power supply side. They are connected to ground, but not used as ground for the power carrying part of the cable. -- Len Sorensen
| From: Lennart Sorensen via talk <talk@gtalug.org> | On Fri, Dec 06, 2019 at 08:50:46AM -0500, D. Hugh Redelmeier via talk wrote: | > <https://www.moddiy.com/pages/Power-Supply-Connectors-and-Pinouts.html> | On the 6pin PCIe power, 2 are 12V, 2 are GND, one is sense, and one is | either not connected or 12V (on the 8pin version that one becomes the | 3rd 12V). The 8pin adds a second sense pin and an extra ground and | makes the optional 12V pin required. | | The sense pins are connected to ground but are not to be used as ground | wires. They are only for detecting that the cable is connected and what | type of cable it is. Wow, the description in the link I posted is woefully incomplete and misleading. Thanks for these clarifications and those in your next message?. Do you have a (free) reference that goes into these details? Do you have advice for o1bigtenor?
On Mon, Dec 09, 2019 at 10:03:50AM -0500, D. Hugh Redelmeier via talk wrote:
Wow, the description in the link I posted is woefully incomplete and misleading.
Thanks for these clarifications and those in your next message?.
Do you have a (free) reference that goes into these details?
This one seems decent: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PCI_Express#Power
Do you have advice for o1bigtenor?
Not sure. I think I forgot what the problem was at this point. :) -- Len Sorensen
On Fri, Dec 06, 2019 at 08:50:46AM -0500, D. Hugh Redelmeier via talk wrote:
<https://allpinouts.org/pinouts/connectors/power_supply/pci-express-pcie-6pin-power/> <https://allpinouts.org/pinouts/connectors/power_supply/pci-express-pcie-8pin-power/>
Or better (but look way down, from "6 Pin PCI Express (PCIe) Power Cable Connector" on):
<https://www.moddiy.com/pages/Power-Supply-Connectors-and-Pinouts.html>
The original 6 pins are all assigned 12v or ground. The extra pins in the 8 pin connector are just grounds. All seem to be connected.
Why two more grounds? Because the 8-pin is supposted to supply more power and "they" added pins to make this new requirement unmistakable. Or maybe they just actually needed two more grounds.
You said one pin on your connector was absent. => your connector isn't right
I don't know if this matters for your new card. Clearly it does not matter for your old cards. Is the pin missing for each of the connectors used for the old video card?
On the 6pin PCIe power, 2 are 12V, 2 are GND, one is sense, and one is either not connected or 12V (on the 8pin version that one becomes the 3rd 12V). The 8pin adds a second sense pin and an extra ground and makes the optional 12V pin required. The sense pins are connected to ground but are not to be used as ground wires. They are only for detecting that the cable is connected and what type of cable it is. -- Len Sorensen
On Wed, Dec 04, 2019 at 07:52:22PM -0600, o1bigtenor via talk wrote:
Greetings
I had a system built in Jan 2012 which included an Asus P9X79 mobo and 3 Geforce 570 video cards where I've been running a variant of Debian, usually testing, ever since. I ran using 2 of those cards utilizing first fully proprietary drivers and then a couple years ago I shifted to the debian version of the same. This last spring 2 of the 3 cards failed and nvidia retired support for the cards in their current drivers so I went to using nouveau for my graphic card driver. I purchased a Radeon RX570 graphics card and a week ago swapped out Nvidia 570 card. I was unable to even get the system to post on first try (I had all 4 monitors plugged into the gpu). Went back to the Nvidia card and the system is working just fine. Tried the Radeon RX570 again this time only plugging in 1 monitor - - - - the gpu light do come on but I can't tell if much further is happening. I called my purchase point and they requested I send it back to them. They are now telling me that the card is working well on their M$ test machine.
I'm not sure what to do or what I did wrong in my install attempt.
Any ideas?
I see some people reporting issues with newer Radeon RX cards on X79 boards. Seems at least in some cases making sure to use the latest BIOS (in some cases the latest beta BIOS) solved the problem. What version do you have currently? -- Len Sorensen
participants (4)
-
D. Hugh Redelmeier -
lsorense＠csclub.uwaterloo.ca -
Nicholas Krause -
o1bigtenor