interesting new approach to forking
Cyanogen mod is forking Android (we knew that) but it how seems to be a big-money commercial play. <http://www.zdnet.com/article/cyanogen-looks-to-amazon-microsoft-funds-to-take-control-of-android/?tag=nl.e539&s_cid=e539&ttag=e539&ftag=TRE17cfd61> And here I thought it was just a "community". This has happened a bit in the past with a fork of XBMC. It didn't turn out well.
On Tue 10 Feb 2015 12:16 -0500, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote:
Cyanogen mod is forking Android (we knew that) but it how seems to be a big-money commercial play. <http://www.zdnet.com/article/cyanogen-looks-to-amazon-microsoft-funds-to-take-control-of-android/?tag=nl.e539&s_cid=e539&ttag=e539&ftag=TRE17cfd61>
And here I thought it was just a "community".
This has happened a bit in the past with a fork of XBMC. It didn't turn out well.
I wonder where these millions are going?
This looks like a false flag operation to me. Skull vs. Bones. On 2/10/15, Loui Chang <louipc.ist@gmail.com> wrote:
On Tue 10 Feb 2015 12:16 -0500, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote:
Cyanogen mod is forking Android (we knew that) but it how seems to be a big-money commercial play. <http://www.zdnet.com/article/cyanogen-looks-to-amazon-microsoft-funds-to-take-control-of-android/?tag=nl.e539&s_cid=e539&ttag=e539&ftag=TRE17cfd61>
And here I thought it was just a "community".
This has happened a bit in the past with a fork of XBMC. It didn't turn out well.
I wonder where these millions are going? --- Talk Mailing List talk@gtalug.org http://gtalug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
| From: Russell Reiter <rreiter91@gmail.com> | This looks like a false flag operation to me. Skull vs. Bones. It's really hard to tell what's going on in Cyanogen Inc.'s "mind". They sure don't seem to be free-software types from their talk or actions. Here's a summary from a comment posted to the article <http://www.androidauthority.com/cyanogen-google-kirt-mcmaster-582373/> How can you sign an exclusive deal with free software? The gist of it is that OnePlus was supposed to launch the One in India with CyanogenMod as usual, but Cyanogen left OnePlus out in the cold by signing an exclusive agreement with Micromax from India. The agreement states that Cyanogen is to exclusively support the latter's upcoming online brand Yu -- a direct competitor of OnePlus -- in India. The big problem is that Cyanogen apparently knew fully well that OnePlus was going to expand to India and decided to sign the agreement with Micromax anyway, backstabbing the brand that had helped them so far. According to OnePlus's co founder Carl Pei, OnePlus "can't explain Cyanogen's decision because we don't fully understand it ourselves,". Keep in mind that during this time OnePlus was swamped with things like their deal with Amazon India, their Black Friday sale and the opening of their store in Beijing. This forced the already busy OnePlus to start developing their own ROM based on Android Lollipop. This could've ended right there, but Cyanogen's founder Steve Kondik took to Google+ and accused OnePlus of stealing features from CyanogenMod for their own ROM. This act was the solidifying act that will probably end their relationship not too long from now. For now, all international units are still supported by Cyanogen, but Pei has hinted that they may no longer continue updating the phone in a year. TL;DR - OnePlus wanted to release the One in India, Cyanogen backstabbed them by signing an exclusive deal with Micromax, OnePlus got frustrated and decided to make their own ROM, Cyanogen accused them of stealing from Cyanogen and their relationship is now very rocky.
On Wed, Feb 11, 2015 at 02:46:07PM -0500, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote:
It's really hard to tell what's going on in Cyanogen Inc.'s "mind". They sure don't seem to be free-software types from their talk or actions.
Here's a summary from a comment posted to the article <http://www.androidauthority.com/cyanogen-google-kirt-mcmaster-582373/>
How can you sign an exclusive deal with free software?
The gist of it is that OnePlus was supposed to launch the One in India with CyanogenMod as usual, but Cyanogen left OnePlus out in the cold by signing an exclusive agreement with Micromax from India. The agreement states that Cyanogen is to exclusively support the latter's upcoming online brand Yu -- a direct competitor of OnePlus -- in India.
The big problem is that Cyanogen apparently knew fully well that OnePlus was going to expand to India and decided to sign the agreement with Micromax anyway, backstabbing the brand that had helped them so far. According to OnePlus's co founder Carl Pei, OnePlus "can't explain Cyanogen's decision because we don't fully understand it ourselves,". Keep in mind that during this time OnePlus was swamped with things like their deal with Amazon India, their Black Friday sale and the opening of their store in Beijing.
This forced the already busy OnePlus to start developing their own ROM based on Android Lollipop. This could've ended right there, but Cyanogen's founder Steve Kondik took to Google+ and accused OnePlus of stealing features from CyanogenMod for their own ROM. This act was the solidifying act that will probably end their relationship not too long from now. For now, all international units are still supported by Cyanogen, but Pei has hinted that they may no longer continue updating the phone in a year.
TL;DR - OnePlus wanted to release the One in India, Cyanogen backstabbed them by signing an exclusive deal with Micromax, OnePlus got frustrated and decided to make their own ROM, Cyanogen accused them of stealing from Cyanogen and their relationship is now very rocky.
So of course at this point any sane person would know that Cyanogen is not to be trusted at all. Don't make any deal with them, because they don't care about you at all. I wonder if even Microsoft might start to regret getting involved with them. -- Len Sorensen
| From: Russell Reiter <rreiter91@gmail.com> | This looks like a false flag operation to me. Skull vs. Bones. Not sure what you mean. Are you saying that Cyanogen Inc. might be simply a spoiling attack from Microsoft on Google/Android under the Cyanogen Inc. flag? | From: Lennart Sorensen <lsorense@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> | So of course at this point any sane person would know that Cyanogen is | not to be trusted at all. Don't make any deal with them, because they | don't care about you at all. Yeah. I wonder how much damage this does to One+One owners in the future. | I wonder if even Microsoft might start to regret getting involved | with them. Perhaps not if the aim is just to bring disrepute and confusion to the Android world. What I don't understand is how much Cyanogen Mod is just Cyanogen Inc. I always thought that Cyanogen Mod was a real plus for the Android community and hence probably useful for Google. For one thing, it was a way of keeping the device manufacturers a little in line (if the device manufacturers went too far, their customers would jump ship to CM). For another, it meant Android had some hacker cred. I am now (with insufficient research) thinking that I might want to avoid CM so as to stay out of the clutches of CI.
On 2/11/15, D. Hugh Redelmeier <hugh@mimosa.com> wrote:
| From: Russell Reiter <rreiter91@gmail.com>
| This looks like a false flag operation to me. Skull vs. Bones.
Not sure what you mean. Are you saying that Cyanogen Inc. might be simply a spoiling attack from Microsoft on Google/Android under the Cyanogen Inc. flag?
I think that pretty much sum's up the situation. Abuse of dominance seems to be an MS stock in trade, however it's not exclusively theirs. I think CM is hedging bets, if not jumping ship. There is profit in confusion whether accidental or deliberate. <SNIP>
| From: Lennart Sorensen <lsorense@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>
| So of course at this point any sane person would know that Cyanogen is | not to be trusted at all. Don't make any deal with them, because they | don't care about you at all.
I somewhat agree with this although I'm not sure how sanity checking in a person is achieved. I struggle with this concept myself at times.
I always thought that Cyanogen Mod was a real plus for the Android community and hence probably useful for Google. For one thing, it was a way of keeping the device manufacturers a little in line (if the device manufacturers went too far, their customers would jump ship to CM). For another, it meant Android had some hacker cred.
I had thought so too and now I'm not so sure. Modularity and scalability are seen as plus's by hackers but they are in fact the wild wild west of the technology business. Do you trade features for security or do you trade security for features. I'd like to think you can have both but that doesn't seem very likely in the near future. Look at how stuxnet escaped containment. The real question is who embedded it in the PLC's in the first place. Note the reports said it was spread from the isolated networks not to them.
I am now (with insufficient research) thinking that I might want to avoid CM so as to stay out of the clutches of CI.
As a blunt force hacker I'm always in somebody's clutches. Isn't the devil you know better than the devil you don't know? Trust is extensible and extendible. Security is non-existent, that's a Microsoft illusion created to pacify small business while the big business crawl in their back door when they find the front door is closed.
On 11 February 2015 at 18:56, Russell Reiter <rreiter91@gmail.com> wrote:
On 2/11/15, D. Hugh Redelmeier <hugh@mimosa.com> wrote:
| From: Russell Reiter <rreiter91@gmail.com>
| This looks like a false flag operation to me. Skull vs. Bones.
Not sure what you mean. Are you saying that Cyanogen Inc. might be simply a spoiling attack from Microsoft on Google/Android under the Cyanogen Inc. flag?
I think that pretty much sum's up the situation. Abuse of dominance seems to be an MS stock in trade, however it's not exclusively theirs. I think CM is hedging bets, if not jumping ship. There is profit in confusion whether accidental or deliberate.
I'm not quite sure what to think about the "maybe MSFT involved" part of this tale. I think the truth won't emerge until later, if ever, as a fair bit of the meaningful detail lies in contractual arrangements that we'll not get to review.
I always thought that Cyanogen Mod was a real plus for the Android community and hence probably useful for Google. For one thing, it was a way of keeping the device manufacturers a little in line (if the device manufacturers went too far, their customers would jump ship to CM). For another, it meant Android had some hacker cred.
I had thought so too and now I'm not so sure. Modularity and scalability are seen as plus's by hackers but they are in fact the wild wild west of the technology business. Do you trade features for security or do you trade security for features. I'd like to think you can have both but that doesn't seem very likely in the near future.
Downthread, Evan has made the valid observation that these systems (CyanogenMod, AOSP, and such) are akin to Linux distributions, and that we should probably not treat it as being quite as mysteriously as we are. If you take a visit to xda-developers.com, you'll find a giant set of projects building customized "Android distributions", of which CyanogenMod is merely one, though a rather popular one, which became sufficiently popular that folk put together a corporation to try to reap some benefits from it. That isn't entirely unlike how companies like Red Hat Software, SuSE, and Caldera grew up surrounding the care and feeding of Linux distributions. There are places where the "just a distro" analogy breaks, but it's a good approximate starting place. The developers that built the CyanogenMod distribution got set up alongside a company that seems to have set its feet a bit badly several times already. (I seem to recall Caldera being well-liked before they got into the litigation business at which point they were Rather Less Well Liked! :-) ) There's a crucial technical difference between Linux distributions and Android distributions in that Linux tends to start its focus with C-based code, whereas Android distributions put the equivalent focus on Java. But I'd think that a less essential difference. The *more* essential difference is that Linux distributions tend to build up their own sets of add-on software, managing that themselves. In contrast, Android distributions tend to be pretty keen on maintaining the ability to draw from Google Play Store, and thus requiring that there be entirely a lot of proprietary third-party code. "I want my GMail client." There are exceptions to that; see F-Droid for a set of repositories of FOSS packages. But there are rather fewer license purists of the Debian sort on Android. Further, there's a deeper layer to worry about. Radio drivers tend to be opaque binaries, so that RMS-style purists pretty much need to choose between compromise (that RMS will go to massive lengths to reject) and deciding they don't really need a phone terribly badly anyways. But back to CyanogenMod... I have been running their distribution on my phones for a number of years now, generally pretty happily. With the recent escapades, that points me to start looking at alternatives. - Google isn't vastly trustworthy in this; I have been monitoring a Nexus 4 problem where CM11 was [weird magicky oddness involved] playing badly in conjunction with a November release of "Google Play Services" such that some new Google APIs were mis-playing and causing phone calls to be silenced with CM11+Nexus4+ recent-GooglePlayServices. The nature of the problem seems a mite magical; it's remarkable to me that only the one phone model was misbehaving in the given way. The API portion, something called CheckinService, looks suspiciously "surveiling on activity" in nature. (I don't want to head down tinfoil hat routes, I'll just say "oddly suspicious.") - The formerly most prominent distribution was AOSP (Android Open Source Project) which has had some troubles. The senior guy gave up not long ago because of difficulties getting driver documentation. - The next most prominent distribution that I'm aware of is called Paranoid Android, and the folks at OnePlus seem to have been raiding them for developers for their inhouse distribution efforts. There's, in effect, bits of trouble all around, making it not so easy to figure out what to consider as alternatives.
Look at how stuxnet escaped containment. The real question is who embedded it in the PLC's in the first place. Note the reports said it was spread from the isolated networks not to them.
I hear (haven't seen the details) that the NSA may have gotten code into disk drive firmware, which puts them pretty deep on any machine with a disk drive. But that's a pretty different story. -- When confronted by a difficult problem, solve it by reducing it to the question, "How would the Lone Ranger handle this?"
<SNIP MOD STUFF>
Look at how stuxnet escaped containment. The real question is who embedded it in the PLC's in the first place. Note the reports said it was spread from the isolated networks not to them.
I hear (haven't seen the details) that the NSA may have gotten code into disk drive firmware, which puts them pretty deep on any machine with a disk drive. But that's a pretty different story.
I have two theories, either the Sweed's snuck it through weeds of AC power after the poem of Copenhagen or the DTMF phreakers did it by a thorny crafty RANDom preload. You'd have to check one of the pat nt zero con scripts handlers to find that one out. If you can't trust your compiler, what can you trust? I'm no luddite but I know full well why he did it. Trade or Craft, weaving is a skill that we all need the work of the Weavers, if we want to mend old things as well as build new ones. So when someone comes into my neighbour hood drop in and tells me I've had a woodpecker in my head since 1976, I look at them with a straight face and say Soviet? or American? i mean what else can you say to that?
-- When confronted by a difficult problem, solve it by reducing it to the question, "How would the Lone Ranger handle this?" --- Talk Mailing List talk@gtalug.org http://gtalug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
Greetings from Singapore. Sheesh. You'd think that of all places, a Linux user group forum would be the *last* place where people would stare at a FOSS software distribution and not know what it was. CM is but one of many Android distributions, with a diversity that would embarrass Distrowatch. - There are the commercial ones that add on proprietary bits such as Samsung's Touchwiz, indeed the Google reference standard (which only comes by default on Nexus and no-name supercheap devices). - There are the barely recognizable mutations such as what's used in the Kindle Fire, deliberately designed to look as non-Android-like as possible. - And then there are the pure FOSS efforts, which include Paranoid Android and the hundreds of small-team or single-person efforts that can be found on XDA-developers. So CM turned from a project into a brand, and attracted outside attention and money. The BRAND signed an exclusive deal with a handset manufacturer in India, that will prove to be a Very Bad Move for them because it's ruined its relationship with a much bigger, global, partner. And so the drama unfolds. Since there are no (well not yet) any proprietary bits in CM12, the only thing that can be "stolen" is the name. That may change. There could be prorietary bits added to CM (like Samsung, HTC and others do regularly), and CM could change its app defaults for email, search, cloud storage etc from Google to MS. (How different is this from Firefox switching its default search from Google to Yahoo?) Over the last decade-plus, Linux distribution politics has had more than its share of soap opera moments... Oracle forking Red Hat, Novell buying and then divesting SuSE, and the brief fallout from Caldera buying a company that made Unix for PCs. That last one was entertainment enough to sustain its own fan site, groklaw. But not Linux distributions are boring, Very little gawking value these days. So the focus is now in Android space, where the stakes are even higher and some of the players are very, very big. Whether Microsoft is involved in CM to disrupt Android, or simply to disrupt Google, or simply to give it an MS-culture-friendly liaison with the Android ecosystem, remains to be seen. But if nothing else, we have a new source of entertainment and a new form of distro wars. It can't do any sustained damage to the ecosystem, and might even result in some healthy competition. Grab your popcorn. - Evan
On 2/11/15, Evan Leibovitch <evan@telly.org> wrote:
Greetings from Singapore.
Sheesh.
You'd think that of all places, a Linux user group forum would be the *last* place where people would stare at a FOSS software distribution and not know what it was.
As a language pedant or peasant, (I never know how to truly label myself so I usually leave that to others) I wonder what free really means. Free Open Source Software, looks easy enough to understand, but in truth what is free. Free stuff, Free radicals, Free willy; the list of usage and mis-usage of free is endless. TANSTAAFL we all pay the piper in one way or another. When word magic is so prevalent in marketing, how do you shake out the spin and find the stable core of logic. IBM's VLIW Architecture exploits Instruction Level Parallelism and has been touted as the natural successor to RISC. However it is the manner in which you bundle primitive words together in ordinary day to day language which affects the experiential outcome of the listener. What happens when you buy the words but they fail you. If you got them free, there is no liability. The minute you pay for the words, you are thrust into the deep and murky world of administrative law. So isn't FOSS, as an administrative acronym, a bit of an oxymoron? In marketing you are free to buy other words, but who or what insures the damages caused by word mis-use? <SNIP VERY INTERESTING ANALYSIS>
It can't do any sustained damage to the ecosystem, and might even result in some healthy competition.
Any thoughts on project Ara? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Ara
Grab your popcorn.
- Evan
On Thu, Feb 12, 2015 at 06:12:56AM -0600, Russell Reiter wrote:
As a language pedant or peasant, (I never know how to truly label myself so I usually leave that to others) I wonder what free really means. Free Open Source Software, looks easy enough to understand, but in truth what is free. Free stuff, Free radicals, Free willy; the list of usage and mis-usage of free is endless.
TANSTAAFL we all pay the piper in one way or another.
When word magic is so prevalent in marketing, how do you shake out the spin and find the stable core of logic.
IBM's VLIW Architecture exploits Instruction Level Parallelism and has been touted as the natural successor to RISC. However it is the manner in which you bundle primitive words together in ordinary day to day language which affects the experiential outcome of the listener.
Well intel has tried using VLIW 3 times now, and (mostly) failed 3 times. Only seems to have ever been successful in DSP designs (hence the "mostly" for intel, with the i860 being fairly successful in DSP use, but not as a general purpose CPU). -- Len Sorensen
<SNIP PREVIOUS>
Well intel has tried using VLIW 3 times now, and (mostly) failed 3 times. Only seems to have ever been successful in DSP designs (hence the "mostly" for intel, with the i860 being fairly successful in DSP use, but not as a general purpose CPU).
Three billion transistors require a mighty robust memory management subsystem. Given the development costs of these chip sets and other factors of parallel advancements in existing architectures, a few false starts are to be expected. Who knows maybe all this belongs in the tomorrow file. Instruction replay RAS and other improvements for checking and correcting errors, are most certainly desirable features. Fine grained exit status is essential for lockstepping cache threads and compile time predication looks like it could be efficient enough for reducing transport delay. Just need better ram with fewer flaws or perhaps parallel RAS and journal the bad bits. ECC or not its the uncommon errors which need to be predicated. So now the problem is not limited to things like voltage flux, it's far field interference like background radiation which tend to flip the bits.
On Thu, Feb 12, 2015 at 06:26:16PM -0600, Russell Reiter wrote:
Three billion transistors require a mighty robust memory management subsystem. Given the development costs of these chip sets and other factors of parallel advancements in existing architectures, a few false starts are to be expected. Who knows maybe all this belongs in the tomorrow file.
Instruction replay RAS and other improvements for checking and correcting errors, are most certainly desirable features. Fine grained exit status is essential for lockstepping cache threads and compile time predication looks like it could be efficient enough for reducing transport delay. Just need better ram with fewer flaws or perhaps parallel RAS and journal the bad bits. ECC or not its the uncommon errors which need to be predicated.
So now the problem is not limited to things like voltage flux, it's far field interference like background radiation which tend to flip the bits.
What do any of those have to do with VLIW? They apply equality to CISC and RISC as well, but at least those tend to be designed to run real code generated by real compilers rather than imagined code generated by imagined magical compilers that don't exist. -- Len Sorensen
<SNIP>
What do any of those have to do with VLIW?
No offence intended, but check your notes on DELTA vs. WYSE AC Power. I believe I have pontificated on this list about that quite enough in the last decade to correct YOUR errors Lennart. You didn't even know what the centre tap is, so how could you be expected to understand dirty AC and the power's relationship to 64 bit ARCH, VLIW, UART, LSBinit, SGML, HTML, XML, dependency based booting in Debian, or why they are called script kittys, or the universe in near and far field effects, randomness and time modification in transmissions.
They apply equality to CISC and RISC as well, but at least those tend to be designed to run real code generated by real compilers rather than imagined code generated by imagined magical compilers that don't exist.
Whatever exists in your imagination regarding real compilers and imagined magical ones are just another ponzi scheme of big oil money IT, apparently now centred in Alberta. The rest of us try to use a DELPHI consensus of experts, sort of a Canadian Intelligence Agency. I cut my teeth on the IBM blue wire fix, no reason for me to jump ship now. I've been pushing for clean air and clean power in Toronto for a long time. God bless IBM for opening up their architecture when every one else was closing up shop. I wonder why they did that? I might be premature but I believe a trusted compiler is in the works, it just needs some funding after the dirty power issue is cleaned up bit bya bit. Regression testing is a bitch, but you do have to do it one tiny bit at a time. Believe me I spend a shit-load of time trying to fix up my own mistakes but the bosses won't let me, so I just have to eat them.
-- Len Sorensen --- Talk Mailing List talk@gtalug.org http://gtalug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
On 02/17/2015 09:02 PM, Russell Reiter wrote:
No offence intended, but check your notes on DELTA vs. WYSE AC Power. I believe I have pontificated on this list about that quite enough in the last decade to correct YOUR errors Lennart.
Perhaps you meant delta vs wye 3 phase power. All that means is different ways to connect 3 phase transformers.
You didn't even know what the centre tap is, so how could you be expected to understand dirty AC and the power's relationship to 64 bit ARCH, VLIW, UART, LSBinit, SGML, HTML, XML, dependency based booting in Debian, or why they are called script kittys, or the universe in near and far field effects, randomness and time modification in transmissions.
Given today's power supplies, I don't see much of an issue with "dirty" power getting through to the circuitry. In a computer power supply, we have single phase power that's rectified, run through a power oscillator to produce high frequency AC, which is passed through a transformer, rectified and regulated. Not much chance for that dirty power to make it through. Of course, the circuit board will also have capacitors distributed around it to further reduce noise and improve regulation.
Speculation about the effect of the sexual proclivities of power systems on XML is probably off-topic for this list (;-)) --dave On 02/17/2015 09:02 PM, Russell Reiter wrote:
What do any of those have to do with VLIW? No offence intended, but check your notes on DELTA vs. WYSE AC Power. I believe I have pontificated on this list about that quite enough in
<SNIP> the last decade to correct YOUR errors Lennart.
You didn't even know what the centre tap is, so how could you be expected to understand dirty AC and the power's relationship to 64 bit ARCH, VLIW, UART, LSBinit, SGML, HTML, XML, dependency based booting in Debian, or why they are called script kittys, or the universe in near and far field effects, randomness and time modification in transmissions.
They apply equality to CISC and RISC as well, but at least those tend to be designed to run real code generated by real compilers rather than imagined code generated by imagined magical compilers that don't exist. Whatever exists in your imagination regarding real compilers and imagined magical ones are just another ponzi scheme of big oil money IT, apparently now centred in Alberta. The rest of us try to use a DELPHI consensus of experts, sort of a Canadian Intelligence Agency.
I cut my teeth on the IBM blue wire fix, no reason for me to jump ship now. I've been pushing for clean air and clean power in Toronto for a long time. God bless IBM for opening up their architecture when every one else was closing up shop. I wonder why they did that?
I might be premature but I believe a trusted compiler is in the works, it just needs some funding after the dirty power issue is cleaned up bit bya bit.
Regression testing is a bitch, but you do have to do it one tiny bit at a time. Believe me I spend a shit-load of time trying to fix up my own mistakes but the bosses won't let me, so I just have to eat them.
-- Len Sorensen --- Talk Mailing List talk@gtalug.org http://gtalug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
--- Talk Mailing List talk@gtalug.org http://gtalug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
-- David Collier-Brown, | Always do right. This will gratify System Programmer and Author | some people and astonish the rest davecb@spamcop.net | -- Mark Twain
On Tue, Feb 17, 2015 at 08:02:56PM -0600, Russell Reiter wrote:
<SNIP>
What do any of those have to do with VLIW?
No offence intended, but check your notes on DELTA vs. WYSE AC Power. I believe I have pontificated on this list about that quite enough in the last decade to correct YOUR errors Lennart.
You didn't even know what the centre tap is, so how could you be expected to understand dirty AC and the power's relationship to 64 bit ARCH, VLIW, UART, LSBinit, SGML, HTML, XML, dependency based booting in Debian, or why they are called script kittys, or the universe in near and far field effects, randomness and time modification in transmissions.
They apply equality to CISC and RISC as well, but at least those tend to be designed to run real code generated by real compilers rather than imagined code generated by imagined magical compilers that don't exist.
Whatever exists in your imagination regarding real compilers and imagined magical ones are just another ponzi scheme of big oil money IT, apparently now centred in Alberta. The rest of us try to use a DELPHI consensus of experts, sort of a Canadian Intelligence Agency.
I cut my teeth on the IBM blue wire fix, no reason for me to jump ship now. I've been pushing for clean air and clean power in Toronto for a long time. God bless IBM for opening up their architecture when every one else was closing up shop. I wonder why they did that?
I might be premature but I believe a trusted compiler is in the works, it just needs some funding after the dirty power issue is cleaned up bit bya bit.
Regression testing is a bitch, but you do have to do it one tiny bit at a time. Believe me I spend a shit-load of time trying to fix up my own mistakes but the bosses won't let me, so I just have to eat them.
I think you win the price for the most incomprehensible message I have ever seen on this list. None of what you wrote had anything to do with what you replied to. -- Len Sorensen
The Trochedactyl says, save the earth, eat a Tree whugger today. On 2/19/15, Lennart Sorensen <lsorense@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> wrote:
On Tue, Feb 17, 2015 at 08:02:56PM -0600, Russell Reiter wrote:
<SNIP>
What do any of those have to do with VLIW?
No offence intended, but check your notes on DELTA vs. WYSE AC Power. I believe I have pontificated on this list about that quite enough in the last decade to correct YOUR errors Lennart.
You didn't even know what the centre tap is, so how could you be expected to understand dirty AC and the power's relationship to 64 bit ARCH, VLIW, UART, LSBinit, SGML, HTML, XML, dependency based booting in Debian, or why they are called script kittys, or the universe in near and far field effects, randomness and time modification in transmissions.
They apply equality to CISC and RISC as well, but at least those tend to be designed to run real code generated by real compilers rather than imagined code generated by imagined magical compilers that don't exist.
Whatever exists in your imagination regarding real compilers and imagined magical ones are just another ponzi scheme of big oil money IT, apparently now centred in Alberta. The rest of us try to use a DELPHI consensus of experts, sort of a Canadian Intelligence Agency.
I cut my teeth on the IBM blue wire fix, no reason for me to jump ship now. I've been pushing for clean air and clean power in Toronto for a long time. God bless IBM for opening up their architecture when every one else was closing up shop. I wonder why they did that?
I might be premature but I believe a trusted compiler is in the works, it just needs some funding after the dirty power issue is cleaned up bit bya bit.
Regression testing is a bitch, but you do have to do it one tiny bit at a time. Believe me I spend a shit-load of time trying to fix up my own mistakes but the bosses won't let me, so I just have to eat them.
I think you win the price for the most incomprehensible message I have ever seen on this list.
None of what you wrote had anything to do with what you replied to.
-- Len Sorensen --- Talk Mailing List talk@gtalug.org http://gtalug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
Plonk! --dave On 02/19/2015 10:51 AM, Russell Reiter wrote:
The Trochedactyl says, save the earth, eat a Tree whugger today.
On 2/19/15, Lennart Sorensen <lsorense@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> wrote:
On Tue, Feb 17, 2015 at 08:02:56PM -0600, Russell Reiter wrote:
What do any of those have to do with VLIW? No offence intended, but check your notes on DELTA vs. WYSE AC Power. I believe I have pontificated on this list about that quite enough in
<SNIP> the last decade to correct YOUR errors Lennart.
You didn't even know what the centre tap is, so how could you be expected to understand dirty AC and the power's relationship to 64 bit ARCH, VLIW, UART, LSBinit, SGML, HTML, XML, dependency based booting in Debian, or why they are called script kittys, or the universe in near and far field effects, randomness and time modification in transmissions.
They apply equality to CISC and RISC as well, but at least those tend to be designed to run real code generated by real compilers rather than imagined code generated by imagined magical compilers that don't exist. Whatever exists in your imagination regarding real compilers and imagined magical ones are just another ponzi scheme of big oil money IT, apparently now centred in Alberta. The rest of us try to use a DELPHI consensus of experts, sort of a Canadian Intelligence Agency.
I cut my teeth on the IBM blue wire fix, no reason for me to jump ship now. I've been pushing for clean air and clean power in Toronto for a long time. God bless IBM for opening up their architecture when every one else was closing up shop. I wonder why they did that?
I might be premature but I believe a trusted compiler is in the works, it just needs some funding after the dirty power issue is cleaned up bit bya bit.
Regression testing is a bitch, but you do have to do it one tiny bit at a time. Believe me I spend a shit-load of time trying to fix up my own mistakes but the bosses won't let me, so I just have to eat them. I think you win the price for the most incomprehensible message I have ever seen on this list.
None of what you wrote had anything to do with what you replied to.
-- Len Sorensen --- Talk Mailing List talk@gtalug.org http://gtalug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
--- Talk Mailing List talk@gtalug.org http://gtalug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
-- David Collier-Brown, | Always do right. This will gratify System Programmer and Author | some people and astonish the rest davecb@spamcop.net | -- Mark Twain
I was going to respond to Christopher's thoughtful post about the differences between Android alternative ROM development and Linux distributions. It's a reasonable topic, worthy of discussion and thoroughly relevant to GTALUG. Then ... something happened. It didn't just derail the conversation, the whole train melted. Are there enough people still reading here to make a sane return to the original subject worthwhile? On 19 February 2015 at 15:08, David Collier-Brown <davec-b@rogers.com> wrote:
Plonk!
--dave
On 02/19/2015 10:51 AM, Russell Reiter wrote:
The Trochedactyl says, save the earth, eat a Tree whugger today.
On 2/19/15, Lennart Sorensen <lsorense@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> wrote:
On Tue, Feb 17, 2015 at 08:02:56PM -0600, Russell Reiter wrote:
<SNIP>
What do any of those have to do with VLIW?
No offence intended, but check your notes on DELTA vs. WYSE AC Power. I believe I have pontificated on this list about that quite enough in the last decade to correct YOUR errors Lennart.
You didn't even know what the centre tap is, so how could you be expected to understand dirty AC and the power's relationship to 64 bit ARCH, VLIW, UART, LSBinit, SGML, HTML, XML, dependency based booting in Debian, or why they are called script kittys, or the universe in near and far field effects, randomness and time modification in transmissions.
They apply equality to CISC and RISC as well, but at least those tend
to be designed to run real code generated by real compilers rather than imagined code generated by imagined magical compilers that don't exist.
Whatever exists in your imagination regarding real compilers and imagined magical ones are just another ponzi scheme of big oil money IT, apparently now centred in Alberta. The rest of us try to use a DELPHI consensus of experts, sort of a Canadian Intelligence Agency.
I cut my teeth on the IBM blue wire fix, no reason for me to jump ship now. I've been pushing for clean air and clean power in Toronto for a long time. God bless IBM for opening up their architecture when every one else was closing up shop. I wonder why they did that?
I might be premature but I believe a trusted compiler is in the works, it just needs some funding after the dirty power issue is cleaned up bit bya bit.
Regression testing is a bitch, but you do have to do it one tiny bit at a time. Believe me I spend a shit-load of time trying to fix up my own mistakes but the bosses won't let me, so I just have to eat them.
I think you win the price for the most incomprehensible message I have ever seen on this list.
None of what you wrote had anything to do with what you replied to.
-- Len Sorensen --- Talk Mailing List talk@gtalug.org http://gtalug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
--- Talk Mailing List talk@gtalug.org http://gtalug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
-- David Collier-Brown, | Always do right. This will gratify System Programmer and Author | some people and astonish the rest davecb@spamcop.net | -- Mark Twain
--- Talk Mailing List talk@gtalug.org http://gtalug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
-- Evan Leibovitch Toronto Canada Em: evan at telly dot org Sk: evanleibovitch Tw: el56
On 2015-02-19 5:05 PM, Evan Leibovitch wrote:
I was going to respond to Christopher's thoughtful post about the differences between Android alternative ROM development and Linux distributions. It's a reasonable topic, worthy of discussion and thoroughly relevant to GTALUG.
Then ... something happened. It didn't just derail the conversation, the whole train melted.
Are there enough people still reading here to make a sane return to the original subject worthwhile?
Linux what?
On 19 February 2015 at 17:05, Evan Leibovitch <evan@telly.org> wrote:
I was going to respond to Christopher's thoughtful post about the differences between Android alternative ROM development and Linux distributions. It's a reasonable topic, worthy of discussion and thoroughly relevant to GTALUG.
I say, go ahead! If someone else is falling off the train, that's neither your problem nor mine. I'm fine with there being plenty equivocal about "Android distributions versus Linux distributions"; that can lead to a fine set of conversation, and we might all learn something. -- When confronted by a difficult problem, solve it by reducing it to the question, "How would the Lone Ranger handle this?"
As I strive to find myself enough time to properly contribute further to the issue, I offer fellow readers this link. http://www.theregister.co.uk/2014/12/30/andressen_cyanogen_oneplus_micromax_... While I don't agree with the assertion that Cyanogen is "a company which hoped to do for Android what Red Hat had done for Linux", the article offers some good follow-the-money research, providing some history that preceded Microsoft's involvement. It also offers some insight about the opportunities and challenges facing those trying to create Google-services-free versions of Android. Cheers, - Evan
On Feb 22, 2015 3:06 PM, "Evan Leibovitch" <evan@telly.org> wrote:
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2014/12/30/andressen_cyanogen_oneplus_micromax_... Thanks for posting that, Evan. As an otherwise happy OnePlus user, I'm a bit peeved that my phone will likely have no security patches until this legal spat blows over. I don't really want to be a walking exploit, if I can help it. Stewart
On Thu, Feb 19, 2015 at 05:05:21PM -0500, Evan Leibovitch wrote:
I was going to respond to Christopher's thoughtful post about the differences between Android alternative ROM development and Linux distributions. It's a reasonable topic, worthy of discussion and thoroughly relevant to GTALUG.
Then ... something happened. It didn't just derail the conversation, the whole train melted.
Something must have happened at the meetings or in the mailing list, while I was away. Sorry to missed it.
Are there enough people still reading here to make a sane return to the original subject worthwhile?
Perhaps, a new thread? -- William
On 2/19/15, David Collier-Brown <davec-b@rogers.com> wrote:
Plonk!
Exactly this is MY art, I'm just trying to practice it. I only have one racket and one skill, my ractet is C# and my skill is accounts receiveables. Any one heel who knows me IRL can tell you that. It's the shitheels in the basement playing base all the time that BUG me the most. I pwn this snippet and others. Pay up or I'm gonna tell the boss and I go EOA and then you're all on your own. OG FREESTYLE AUTHCODE 2B@!@B
Date: Thu, 22 May 2008 17:21:09 -0500 Subject: OBJECT REDACTED CRI FORM THORN ODIN LOKI OMITUS
----- Original Message -----
From: "r reiter" <goethe123321@hotmail.com> To: tlug@ss.org Subject: rWe1LwArsYt if [true|tr (guano,metle) :) Bless(you)|all Date: Sat, 19 Nov 2005 22:31:53 -0500 OBJECT REDACTED CRI THORN ODIN LOKI END BEGAT$ Megwitch Megwitch Megwitch
--dave
On 02/19/2015 10:51 AM, Russell Reiter wrote:
The Trochedactyl says, save the earth, eat a Tree whugger today.
On 2/19/15, Lennart Sorensen <lsorense@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> wrote:
On Tue, Feb 17, 2015 at 08:02:56PM -0600, Russell Reiter wrote:
What do any of those have to do with VLIW? No offence intended, but check your notes on DELTA vs. WYSE AC Power. I believe I have pontificated on this list about that quite enough in
<SNIP> the last decade to correct YOUR errors Lennart.
You didn't even know what the centre tap is, so how could you be expected to understand dirty AC and the power's relationship to 64 bit ARCH, VLIW, UART, LSBinit, SGML, HTML, XML, dependency based booting in Debian, or why they are called script kittys, or the universe in near and far field effects, randomness and time modification in transmissions.
They apply equality to CISC and RISC as well, but at least those tend to be designed to run real code generated by real compilers rather than imagined code generated by imagined magical compilers that don't exist. Whatever exists in your imagination regarding real compilers and imagined magical ones are just another ponzi scheme of big oil money IT, apparently now centred in Alberta. The rest of us try to use a DELPHI consensus of experts, sort of a Canadian Intelligence Agency.
I cut my teeth on the IBM blue wire fix, no reason for me to jump ship now. I've been pushing for clean air and clean power in Toronto for a long time. God bless IBM for opening up their architecture when every one else was closing up shop. I wonder why they did that?
I might be premature but I believe a trusted compiler is in the works, it just needs some funding after the dirty power issue is cleaned up bit bya bit.
Regression testing is a bitch, but you do have to do it one tiny bit at a time. Believe me I spend a shit-load of time trying to fix up my own mistakes but the bosses won't let me, so I just have to eat them. I think you win the price for the most incomprehensible message I have ever seen on this list.
None of what you wrote had anything to do with what you replied to.
-- Len Sorensen --- Talk Mailing List talk@gtalug.org http://gtalug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
--- Talk Mailing List talk@gtalug.org http://gtalug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
-- David Collier-Brown, | Always do right. This will gratify System Programmer and Author | some people and astonish the rest davecb@spamcop.net | -- Mark Twain
--- Talk Mailing List talk@gtalug.org http://gtalug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
On 02/19/2015 05:41 PM, Evan Leibovitch wrote:
On 19 February 2015 at 17:12, Russell Reiter <rreiter91@gmail.com <mailto:rreiter91@gmail.com>>wrote:
I pwn this snippet and others. Pay up or I'm gonna tell the boss and I go EOA and then you're all on your own.
Promise?
A great improvement: I only see replys to Mr. Reiter. Don't feed the trolls! --dave -- David Collier-Brown, | Always do right. This will gratify System Programmer and Author | some people and astonish the rest davecb@spamcop.net | -- Mark Twain
On 02/19/2015 05:41 PM, Evan Leibovitch wrote:
On 19 February 2015 at 17:12, Russell Reiter <rreiter91@gmail.com <mailto:rreiter91@gmail.com>>wrote:
I pwn this snippet and others. Pay up or I'm gonna tell the boss and I go EOA and then you're all on your own.
Promise?
A great improvement: I only see replys to Mr. Reiter. Don't feed the trolls! --dave -- David Collier-Brown, | Always do right. This will gratify System Programmer and Author | some people and astonish the rest davecb@spamcop.net | -- Mark Twain
On 2/19/15, Evan Leibovitch <evan@telly.org> wrote:
On 19 February 2015 at 17:12, Russell Reiter <rreiter91@gmail.com> wrote:
I pwn this snippet and others. Pay up or I'm gonna tell the boss and I go EOA and then you're all on your own.
Promise?
Hey I'm only a predicated analysis of the robotics generation, I can't say what the Boss is going to do, but for all our sakes, I don't push his buttons without reason, do you? I do know he's getting kind of pissed for only trying to help things along. BTW it's been a long time, I'm sorry I called you the vice president of Candia, but I'm a hard working very blunt object some times. Some times it works out sometimes it doesn't. But as they say in Vegas, and believe me nothing of value stays in vegas, third times a charm! It's a rigged game, always has been. The US military general leadership, RAH RAH RAH what a BOFG. Punks is what they are and punks is what they will stay. Fact is fact and fiction is fiction, we have to be able to tell the difference or we are all doomed, to live here with them, as their slaves, until they wipe us all out. Search your heart etc. You know what I missed most, shooting pool with Tim, and Matt and Frazier, you never came to those meetings so we never had much FUN together. Even though they weren't much competition, at least they tried. I mean look at it from my perspective and with all apologies to Philip K. Dick, who gave me this one i)deal, you guys get to fly around the world and go to conferences and stuff, while I'm Down In The Black Gang, working for the insurance under ******* drowning with the rest of the US in a sea of military taxation. Am I jealous, fuck no, I wouldn't get on a plane today for love nor money, at least until all the SANTA bugs are fixed using my trade, my craft, my secrets. It's a Titanic insurance fraud and someone has to stop it, so push the button max, go on cross that line. GET SMART was a TV show. This is IRL #RedAlertStupid The Wright stuff is fact vs. fiction. Do you have the Wright stuff? i'm not sure who or what made me what I am this day, the Satanists made sure of that. There is no Santa bringing presents in a sleigh but there are people who look just like him, selling coke. A big shout out to my old Tlug friends, JC et al. Wherever you are. etcetera ectera etcra etc ... So when the regression testing is all done, maybe we can all go for PAD TI, shoot some stick and have a beer. AUTHCODE com0(0 cap0() DI TU TI CA PO 1st FRET VESTPOL TONE ONE TONE LOC The sea shall not have them, so says Canada while he's in a tiny rubber life raft on the ocean with the other brave brits, while the US GOVT miked them for all it was worth. PAD RO you go to fucking hell and take all your GRIZELDA, ganstalking TV production thugs with you. OR NOT it's up to you. Jack and Billy were nice guys, but he didn't know what he was getting into. I'm sure Dinah and the whole cast loved them. So says the prof JSM, I mean who the fuck gets lost in southern 0ntario unless they don't know why they are here and where they are going. TV COKEHEADS ON THE BELTWAY Can it get any worse than that? AUTHCODE TANGO ROMEO FOXTROT padRO They shot me, hovering over me with a microwave cannon and they didn't care if it would hurt me or not. We'll it did, it made me sick, I felt it moreover, the real specs say so. So when you buy your java beans from i0deal, just remember there's a can of worms that goes with it. JA lives in a firey hell he tries to put out with water and the NATzi's who run the place don't even know that in GB Elizabeth is a mans name given in respect and in duty, honor, right and heritage, not lineage, there's good and bad in all of us. My UN-CLE has seven grand kids, I don't have any children, so I do this for yours. PEACE OUT
On Feb 20, 2015 11:03 AM, "Russell Reiter" <rreiter91@gmail.com> wrote:
... 1st FRET VESTPOL
I approve of this reference, though of course the *true* conspiracy theorist will immediately see the link between: 1) Vestpol, or Vestapol, guitar tuning (D A D F# A D, or Open D) much used in southern acoustic blues; 2) Vestapol March, one of those blues numbers played in Open D. Also known variously as the Sylvester Poole March, Sevastopol March, or The March on Sebastopol - a particularly delicate piece of parlour music popular in the later 19th century, commemorating some event or other in the Crimean War; 3) Sevastopol, location of current unpleasantness between Ukraine and Russia. So those refined society ladies plucking their gut-string banjos and the bluesmen with names composed of $AFFLICTION $FRUIT $DEAD_PRESIDENT all knew that Putin's actions were long foretold ... I am folk, hear me process.* Stewart *: not mine, alas; one of Peter Stampfel's.
On Thu, 2015/02/19 10:43:09AM -0500, Lennart Sorensen <lsorense@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> wrote: | On Tue, Feb 17, 2015 at 08:02:56PM -0600, Russell Reiter wrote: | > <SNIP> | > | > Regression testing is a bitch, but you do have to do it one tiny bit | > at a time. Believe me I spend a shit-load of time trying to fix up my | > own mistakes but the bosses won't let me, so I just have to eat them. | | I think you win the price for the most incomprehensible message I have | ever seen on this list. | | None of what you wrote had anything to do with what you replied to. I was left wondering if Russell Reiter was a close friend or relative of Mark V. Shaney.
What happens when you buy the words but they fail you. If you got them free, there is no liability. But there can be: a tort. Torts arise when you are injured or suffer loss outside a contract, arising from lack of reasonable diligence by
The minute you pay for the words, you are thrust into the deep and murky world of administrative law. Payment is only one form of consideration required to form a contract. I suspect that continued use/enjoyment/utility is the consideration for free software. But what of the software we don't know we're using, like
On 2015-02-12 07:12 AM, Russell Reiter wrote: the person causing the injury or loss. The ancient Debian ssh problem - where a well-meaning admin patched some code that used uninitialized variables, not realizing it would make connections less secure - could have created a tort. the low-level stuff that moves our bits about the world: can I choose not to use that if it takes more than a reasonable effort to find out what it is? Wiser folks may of course refer me to the reply given in /Arkell v. Pressdram/. cheers, Stewart (a slightly apprehensive One+/Cyanogen user)
<SNIP PREVIOUS>
But what of the software we don't know we're using, like the low-level stuff that moves our bits about the world: can I choose not to use that if it takes more than a reasonable effort to find out what it is?
Wiser folks may of course refer me to the reply given in /Arkell v. Pressdram/.
Not at all. I'm always open to discussion. First of all a tort is an UN-intentional breach of contract, from that point it all depends on how you define low-level bits and reasonable. In physics you can't just say fuck the low level bits, we'll fix it in POST, that's media-speak, it just doesn't work that way in the real world. In this case all the worlds not a stage and all the people players etcetera etcera etcra etc ...
From my perspective as a kind of blunt force hardware kind of guy, any way you look at things, the pressing need is to clean up dirty power, or build a shield against it. Truth is a kind of a higgs boson, first it's there, then it's not there, then it's there again. Or is it the other way round? When you rely so much on truth tables, shouldn't accuracy be to the nth degree?
That is to the highest level of trust which could be further extended rather than the lowest. I forgot, are we talking about physics or law here? If it is truly both, then the same ordered logic applies, doesn't it? The fact that you know there is a Higgs Boson, is one you can't reasonably deny in a court of law, can you? That's neither a reasonable error or omission. I think it's best to be shielded from that sort of thing, but I'm a hacker not a lawyer. Russell
<SNIP PREVIOUS HISTORY>
TL;DR - OnePlus wanted to release the One in India, Cyanogen backstabbed them by signing an exclusive deal with Micromax, OnePlus got frustrated and decided to make their own ROM, Cyanogen accused them of stealing from Cyanogen and their relationship is now very rocky.
The whole question of theft of intellectual property is a pretty grey area in the digital millennium. Is reverse engineering theft? if it was Dell sure made it past the post on that one. There's lots of mythos around the development of software. Didn't IBM open up their architecture for a reason? wasn't that reason so the technology should develop in a sustainable way? I seem to recall that IBM originally thought the worlds business computing could be reasonably done on two or three mainframes through a distributed network. So when PC bios intelligence features are reverse engineered, it's not theft it's ummmmm creative math. Or perhaps the term New Math is better. More base 2ish. When push comes to shove it's all a numbers game. Bill Gates open letter to hobbyists comes to mind. A trade secret is only valued as a trade secret when steps are taken to protect it. So when Gates fails to secure the punch-tape and loses control of ALTAIR BASIC and I'm assuming MITS MOBILE was engaging the "hobbyists" for an open source intelligence reason, creative math is fair play. Free beer, free software, free love all relics of the sixties. TANSTAAFL Many years ago at a TLUG BOF I facilitated I asked John Hall about emerging open source technology and the people who were most involved in it's development. To paraphrase he said, the PHD's write the software but it is the operators who use and perfect it. So IMHO Gates is a real operator all right and he has a whole class of people following in his footsteps. They want the thing to work just well enough to make money but not so well that it doesn't need constant upgrading and improvement.
participants (13)
-
Christopher Browne -
D. Hugh Redelmeier -
David Collier-Brown -
Evan Leibovitch -
James Knott -
Jamon Camisso -
John Sellens -
Lennart Sorensen -
Loui Chang -
Russell Reiter -
Stewart C. Russell -
Stewart Russell
-
William Park