debian Linux -- Installation DVDs Full Set - Shipped To Canadian Destination ??
Greetings To GTALUG, I am starting to order the parts for building a new desktop PC to run debian Linux as primary operating system. Replacing an ancient Dell desktop PC with MS Windows XP. * * * * * * I'm looking for a source for full set of physical debian Linux (LXDE) installation DVDs (NOT a live install, as I understand that Linux does not yet support live install with UEFI). I need the installation DVDs because I use a very slow telephone-grade dial-up line modem for my Internet connection, so a Linux installation via network is not feasible. (I plan to try to keep using the dial-up line with the new debian Linux PC, at least for the first while. GTALUG advice put me on to the idea of using a USB dial-up modem with Linux.) Found a U.S.A.-side vendor www.shoplinuxonline.org but am concerned about getting caught in snags with payment / collection of Canadian customs duties, that may be collected by courier delivering to the Canadian address from U.S.A * * * * * * Does anyone know of a Canadian-side online seller of debian Linux (LXDE) DVD installation sets ?? I could potentially beg use of a friend's Windows 10 setup on Bell Fibe, and download the debian Linux LXDE) DVD image files and burn the DVDs myself, but I prefer to avoid the hassle and probable mistakes. Any thoughts from GTALUG members, on this piddling but potentially messy detail of getting a full set of debian Linux (LXDE) install DVDs, greatly appreciated !! Best Regards, Steve
On Thu, Mar 01, 2018 at 09:28:47AM -0500, Steve Petrie, P.Eng. via talk wrote:
Greetings To GTALUG,
I am starting to order the parts for building a new desktop PC to run debian Linux as primary operating system. Replacing an ancient Dell desktop PC with MS Windows XP.
* * * * * *
I'm looking for a source for full set of physical debian Linux (LXDE) installation DVDs (NOT a live install, as I understand that Linux does not yet support live install with UEFI).
My exeprience with the live installers is that they don't work very well in general.
I need the installation DVDs because I use a very slow telephone-grade dial-up line modem for my Internet connection, so a Linux installation via network is not feasible. (I plan to try to keep using the dial-up line with the new debian Linux PC, at least for the first while. GTALUG advice put me on to the idea of using a USB dial-up modem with Linux.)
Found a U.S.A.-side vendor www.shoplinuxonline.org but am concerned about getting caught in snags with payment / collection of Canadian customs duties, that may be collected by courier delivering to the Canadian address from U.S.A
* * * * * *
Does anyone know of a Canadian-side online seller of debian Linux (LXDE) DVD installation sets ??
https://www.jbox.ca/product-category/computers-tablets/software/linux-cds-dv...
I could potentially beg use of a friend's Windows 10 setup on Bell Fibe, and download the debian Linux LXDE) DVD image files and burn the DVDs myself, but I prefer to avoid the hassle and probable mistakes.
Any thoughts from GTALUG members, on this piddling but potentially messy detail of getting a full set of debian Linux (LXDE) install DVDs, greatly appreciated !!
Why DVD and not use USB keys? There is a place in canada that will sell DVD sets, but for a complete 13 disc set it is $45 which seems pretty crazy. And that isn't even the current version of Debian. Certainly one option would be to get the 3 BD images with jigdo and dump them onto 3 32GB USB keys (which you can pick up at costco for about $36 for a 3pack). Would be much faster than the DVDs to use, less hassle too, and reusable in the future for other things, like the next version. Of course you could probably get away with just one usb key with the first BD since the software is sorted by popularity and you likely would never need what is on the second and third BD. -- Len Sorensen
Hey Steve, In the last few years DVDs have fallen out of favour as a media of choice for sharing large files and it's likely to be difficult and not cost effective to obtain them. First of all Debian DVD iso doesn't need to be installed from a DVD drive, you can just dd the image straight onto a usb drive -- ( If you were to download dvd images from here -- https://cdimage.debian.org/debian-cd/current/amd64/iso-dvd/) $ dd if=debian-9.3.0-amd64-DVD-1.iso of=/dev/usb_physical_device Any reasonably recent PC should be able too boot from the image. If you are using debian as a general-purpose desktop it's likely that you wouldn't even need to use any other dvds as the first DVD contains most of the software. Also you can try getting dldvd (dual-layer DVD) and bd (blue-ray disk images) with jigdo then you'd be able to fit even more packages on a usb key. If you have temporary access to a fast internet connection, you can create the whole debian mirror using reprepro (https://mirrorer.alioth.debian.org/) and various other tools (https://wiki.debian.org/DebianRepository/Setup) storing the files on a portable harddrive. Installing this would work by booting off the first DVD image on an usb, then connecting & mounting portable harddrive then giving file url as a sources.list url (http://www.linuxwave.info/2009/04/adding-local-directory-to-apt.html) Alex. On 03/01/18 09:28, Steve Petrie, P.Eng. via talk wrote:
*Greetings To GTALUG,* I am starting to order the parts for building a new desktop PC to run debian Linux as primary operating system. Replacing an ancient Dell desktop PC with MS Windows XP. * * * * * * *I'm looking for a source for full set of physical debian Linux (LXDE) installation DVDs (NOT a live install, as I understand that Linux does not yet support live install with UEFI).* I need the installation DVDs because I _use a very slow telephone-grade dial-up line modem for my Internet connection_, so a Linux installation via network is not feasible. (I plan to try to keep using the dial-up line with the new debian Linux PC, at least for the first while. GTALUG advice put me on to the idea of using a USB dial-up modem with Linux.) Found a U.S.A.-side vendor www.shoplinuxonline.org <http://www.shoplinuxonline.org> but am concerned about getting caught in snags with payment / collection of Canadian customs duties, that may be collected by courier delivering to the Canadian address from U.S.A * * * * * * *Does anyone know of a Canadian-side online seller of debian Linux (LXDE) DVD installation sets ??* I could potentially beg use of a friend's Windows 10 setup on Bell Fibe, and download the debian Linux LXDE) DVD image files and burn the DVDs myself, but I prefer to avoid the hassle and probable mistakes. Any thoughts from GTALUG members, on this piddling but potentially messy detail of getting a full set of debian Linux (LXDE) install DVDs, greatly appreciated *!!* Best Regards, *Steve*
--- Talk Mailing List talk@gtalug.org https://gtalug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
Steve Petrie, P.Eng. via talk wrote:
I'm looking for a source for full set of physical debian Linux (LXDE) installation DVDs (NOT a live install, as I understand that Linux does not yet support live install with UEFI).
Note that they've gone to some effort to pack the stuff you're most likely to need onto the first DVD (or onto the full-CD image to a much-more-heavily-trimmed extent), so you should be able to get going with only that. The later discs are likely to go unused, or lightly used. If you're on a low-bandwidth connection, then a server running a caching proxy like apt-cacher-ng or squid can be your friend. -- Anthony de Boer
On 01/03/18 12:36 PM, Anthony de Boer via talk wrote:
I'm looking for a source for full set of physical debian Linux (LXDE) installation DVDs (NOT a live install, as I understand that Linux does not yet support live install with UEFI). Note that they've gone to some effort to pack the stuff you're most
Steve Petrie, P.Eng. via talk wrote: likely to need onto the first DVD (or onto the full-CD image to a much-more-heavily-trimmed extent), so you should be able to get going with only that. The later discs are likely to go unused, or lightly used.
If you're on a low-bandwidth connection, then a server running a caching proxy like apt-cacher-ng or squid can be your friend.
He may need someone attached to a viable network to get the wodge of data to do an install, after which he can do updates by low-speed modem or mailing around DVDs. --dave -- David Collier-Brown, | Always do right. This will gratify System Programmer and Author | some people and astonish the rest davecb@spamcop.net | -- Mark Twain
Hey Steve, I'm in the Toronto area and would be willing to burn and ship you the DVDs for cost, what to cite exactly which ones you want along with any other things? If you want I can purchase you a HDD and ship some other bandwidth intensive files/torrents. Regards, Andrew Paolucci ‐‐‐‐‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐‐‐‐‐ On March 1, 2018 9:28 AM, Steve Petrie, P.Eng. via talk <talk@gtalug.org> wrote:
Greetings To GTALUG,
I am starting to order the parts for building a new desktop PC to run debian Linux as primary operating system. Replacing an ancient Dell desktop PC with MS Windows XP.
* * * * * *
I'm looking for a source for full set of physical debian Linux (LXDE) installation DVDs (NOT a live install, as I understand that Linux does not yet support live install with UEFI).
I need the installation DVDs because I use a very slow telephone-grade dial-up line modem for my Internet connection, so a Linux installation via network is not feasible. (I plan to try to keep using the dial-up line with the new debian Linux PC, at least for the first while. GTALUG advice put me on to the idea of using a USB dial-up modem with Linux.)
Found a U.S.A.-side vendor www.shoplinuxonline.org but am concerned about getting caught in snags with payment / collection of Canadian customs duties, that may be collected by courier delivering to the Canadian address from U.S.A
* * * * * *
Does anyone know of a Canadian-side online seller of debian Linux (LXDE) DVD installation sets ??
I could potentially beg use of a friend's Windows 10 setup on Bell Fibe, and download the debian Linux LXDE) DVD image files and burn the DVDs myself, but I prefer to avoid the hassle and probable mistakes.
Any thoughts from GTALUG members, on this piddling but potentially messy detail of getting a full set of debian Linux (LXDE) install DVDs, greatly appreciated !!
Best Regards,
Steve
On 1 March 2018 at 09:28, Steve Petrie, P.Eng. via talk <talk@gtalug.org> wrote:
*Greetings To GTALUG,*
I am starting to order the parts for building a new desktop PC to run debian Linux as primary operating system. Replacing an ancient Dell desktop PC with MS Windows XP.
* * * * * *
*I'm looking for a source for full set of physical debian Linux (LXDE) installation DVDs (NOT a live install, as I understand that Linux does not yet support live install with UEFI).*
I need the installation DVDs because I *use a very slow telephone-grade dial-up line modem for my Internet connection*, so a Linux installation via network is not feasible. (I plan to try to keep using the dial-up line with the new debian Linux PC, at least for the first while. GTALUG advice put me on to the idea of using a USB dial-up modem with Linux.)
Found a U.S.A.-side vendor www.shoplinuxonline.org but am concerned about getting caught in snags with payment / collection of Canadian customs duties, that may be collected by courier delivering to the Canadian address from U.S.A
* * * * * *
*Does anyone know of a Canadian-side online seller of debian Linux (LXDE) DVD installation sets ??*
I could potentially beg use of a friend's Windows 10 setup on Bell Fibe, and download the debian Linux LXDE) DVD image files and burn the DVDs myself, but I prefer to avoid the hassle and probable mistakes.
Any thoughts from GTALUG members, on this piddling but potentially messy detail of getting a full set of debian Linux (LXDE) install DVDs, greatly appreciated *!!*
The last time I had to help someone with a modem on Linux 3-4 years ago, it was kind of a nightmare. Before you buy, make sure it has Linux support - and then spend some time researching what they mean by that, because one of the things I encountered was "has Linux support" meant "if you go pay someone else for a driver that only works with a specific kernel." I don't consider that real Linux support, so do your homework. Keep in mind that every time a new kernel comes out (~once a month with Debian stable, ~every two weeks with testing??) you're in for an overnight (or at least multi-hour) download. I'm afraid you're going to find yourself dreading the 'apt-get dist-upgrade' command, which you _should_ run often. I'd also add a vote for seeing if you can get USB media: it's a lot easier to deal with these days, and more common. It could also allow you to skip putting an optical drive into your new machine if you don't otherwise need it. -- Giles https://www.gilesorr.com/ gilesorr@gmail.com
Many thanks to the many helpful responders !! Too many for me to thank individually ... * * * * * * Here is what I have digested and decided, based on GTALUG advivce received: 1. Thanks for the multiple offers to burn & ship DVDs and / or other media. 2. I'll accept the USB device advice, and use a USB device for the installation media. 3. I already own two (2) WD 1 TB USB drives, acquired for taking hard disk backups of the new PC. So I'll try using one of those for the debian Linux (LXDE) installation device. 4. My friend has a Windows 10 setup with high speed Internet connection so I'll see if he and I can get all three installation DVD images onto that USB drive. We can't use any Linux utilities while doing that, unfortunately. Then I'll try the Linux install from that USB drive. 5. Thanks also for the cautionary advice re: dial-up modem on Linux. I did some research earlier, but of course the proof will be in the actual attempt to use the modem :) I do plan to upgrade to a faster (and dedicated) Internet link !! Just wanted to try first with the dial-up modem. Trying to simplify my life by postponing the networking upgrade. And also out of plain perverse curiosity, more than anything else. * * * * * * Thanks again to GTALUG members for all the advice. Makes this whole shift from Windows XP to debian Linux soooo much more comfortable. No doubt I'll be back in touch again at some point, during the build adventure... :) Best, Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: Giles Orr To: Steve Petrie, P.Eng. ; GTALUG Talk Sent: Thursday, March 01, 2018 2:24 PM Subject: Re: [GTALUG] debian Linux -- Installation DVDs Full Set - Shipped To Canadian Destination ?? On 1 March 2018 at 09:28, Steve Petrie, P.Eng. via talk <talk@gtalug.org> wrote: Greetings To GTALUG, I am starting to order the parts for building a new desktop PC to run debian Linux as primary operating system. Replacing an ancient Dell desktop PC with MS Windows XP. * * * * * * I'm looking for a source for full set of physical debian Linux (LXDE) installation DVDs (NOT a live install, as I understand that Linux does not yet support live install with UEFI). I need the installation DVDs because I use a very slow telephone-grade dial-up line modem for my Internet connection, so a Linux installation via network is not feasible. (I plan to try to keep using the dial-up line with the new debian Linux PC, at least for the first while. GTALUG advice put me on to the idea of using a USB dial-up modem with Linux.) Found a U.S.A.-side vendor www.shoplinuxonline.org but am concerned about getting caught in snags with payment / collection of Canadian customs duties, that may be collected by courier delivering to the Canadian address from U.S.A * * * * * * Does anyone know of a Canadian-side online seller of debian Linux (LXDE) DVD installation sets ?? I could potentially beg use of a friend's Windows 10 setup on Bell Fibe, and download the debian Linux LXDE) DVD image files and burn the DVDs myself, but I prefer to avoid the hassle and probable mistakes. Any thoughts from GTALUG members, on this piddling but potentially messy detail of getting a full set of debian Linux (LXDE) install DVDs, greatly appreciated !! The last time I had to help someone with a modem on Linux 3-4 years ago, it was kind of a nightmare. Before you buy, make sure it has Linux support - and then spend some time researching what they mean by that, because one of the things I encountered was "has Linux support" meant "if you go pay someone else for a driver that only works with a specific kernel." I don't consider that real Linux support, so do your homework. Keep in mind that every time a new kernel comes out (~once a month with Debian stable, ~every two weeks with testing??) you're in for an overnight (or at least multi-hour) download. I'm afraid you're going to find yourself dreading the 'apt-get dist-upgrade' command, which you _should_ run often. I'd also add a vote for seeing if you can get USB media: it's a lot easier to deal with these days, and more common. It could also allow you to skip putting an optical drive into your new machine if you don't otherwise need it. -- Giles https://www.gilesorr.com/ gilesorr@gmail.com
On March 2, 2018 10:25:16 AM EST, "Steve Petrie, P.Eng. via talk" <talk@gtalug.org> wrote:
Many thanks to the many helpful responders !!
Too many for me to thank individually ...
* * * * * *
Here is what I have digested and decided, based on GTALUG advivce received:
1. Thanks for the multiple offers to burn & ship DVDs and / or other media.
2. I'll accept the USB device advice, and use a USB device for the installation media.
3. I already own two (2) WD 1 TB USB drives, acquired for taking hard disk backups of the new PC. So I'll try using one of those for the debian Linux (LXDE) installation device.
4. My friend has a Windows 10 setup with high speed Internet connection so I'll see if he and I can get all three installation DVD images onto that USB drive. We can't use any Linux utilities while doing that, unfortunately. Then I'll try the Linux install from that USB drive.
I know your final target is lxde but the System Rescue iso has a very small footprint and it is great for slow connections. I have done it for several people in the past and it contains number of very useful tools for disk manipulation. It uses Debian apt tools for repository management and is based on well documented Gentoo linux. http://www.system-rescue-cd.org
5. Thanks also for the cautionary advice re: dial-up modem on Linux. I did some research earlier, but of course the proof will be in the actual attempt to use the modem :) I do plan to upgrade to a faster (and dedicated) Internet link !! Just wanted to try first with the dial-up modem. Trying to simplify my life by postponing the networking upgrade. And also out of plain perverse curiosity, more than anything else.
* * * * * *
Thanks again to GTALUG members for all the advice. Makes this whole shift from Windows XP to debian Linux soooo much more comfortable. No doubt I'll be back in touch again at some point, during the build adventure... :)
I use system rescue to prepare dual boot systems and troubleshoot with it all the time. My copy is on a very old 1gig usb pen drive. I wouldn't start a fresh install without having a copy available. Good luck with the build.
Best,
Steve
----- Original Message ----- From: Giles Orr To: Steve Petrie, P.Eng. ; GTALUG Talk Sent: Thursday, March 01, 2018 2:24 PM Subject: Re: [GTALUG] debian Linux -- Installation DVDs Full Set - Shipped To Canadian Destination ??
On 1 March 2018 at 09:28, Steve Petrie, P.Eng. via talk <talk@gtalug.org> wrote:
Greetings To GTALUG,
I am starting to order the parts for building a new desktop PC to run debian Linux as primary operating system. Replacing an ancient Dell desktop PC with MS Windows XP.
* * * * * *
I'm looking for a source for full set of physical debian Linux (LXDE) installation DVDs (NOT a live install, as I understand that Linux does not yet support live install with UEFI).
I need the installation DVDs because I use a very slow telephone-grade dial-up line modem for my Internet connection, so a Linux installation via network is not feasible. (I plan to try to keep using the dial-up line with the new debian Linux PC, at least for the first while. GTALUG advice put me on to the idea of using a USB dial-up modem with Linux.)
Found a U.S.A.-side vendor www.shoplinuxonline.org but am concerned about getting caught in snags with payment / collection of Canadian customs duties, that may be collected by courier delivering to the Canadian address from U.S.A
* * * * * *
Does anyone know of a Canadian-side online seller of debian Linux (LXDE) DVD installation sets ??
I could potentially beg use of a friend's Windows 10 setup on Bell Fibe, and download the debian Linux LXDE) DVD image files and burn the DVDs myself, but I prefer to avoid the hassle and probable mistakes.
Any thoughts from GTALUG members, on this piddling but potentially messy detail of getting a full set of debian Linux (LXDE) install DVDs, greatly appreciated !!
The last time I had to help someone with a modem on Linux 3-4 years ago, it was kind of a nightmare. Before you buy, make sure it has Linux support - and then spend some time researching what they mean by that, because one of the things I encountered was "has Linux support" meant "if you go pay someone else for a driver that only works with a specific kernel." I don't consider that real Linux support, so do your homework.
Keep in mind that every time a new kernel comes out (~once a month with Debian stable, ~every two weeks with testing??) you're in for an overnight (or at least multi-hour) download. I'm afraid you're going to find yourself dreading the 'apt-get dist-upgrade' command, which you _should_ run often.
I'd also add a vote for seeing if you can get USB media: it's a lot easier to deal with these days, and more common. It could also allow you to skip putting an optical drive into your new machine if you don't otherwise need it.
--
Giles https://www.gilesorr.com/ gilesorr@gmail.com
-- Russell
Russell -- thanks for the tip about small footprint system rescue -- I'll try it. Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: Russell To: Steve Petrie, P.Eng. ; GTALUG Talk Sent: Friday, March 02, 2018 11:01 AM Subject: Re: [GTALUG] debian Linux -- Installation DVDs Full Set - Shipped To Canadian Destination ?? On March 2, 2018 10:25:16 AM EST, "Steve Petrie, P.Eng. via talk" <talk@gtalug.org> wrote:
Many thanks to the many helpful responders !!
Too many for me to thank individually ...
* * * * * *
Here is what I have digested and decided, based on GTALUG advivce received:
1. Thanks for the multiple offers to burn & ship DVDs and / or other media.
2. I'll accept the USB device advice, and use a USB device for the installation media.
3. I already own two (2) WD 1 TB USB drives, acquired for taking hard disk backups of the new PC. So I'll try using one of those for the debian Linux (LXDE) installation device.
4. My friend has a Windows 10 setup with high speed Internet connection so I'll see if he and I can get all three installation DVD images onto that USB drive. We can't use any Linux utilities while doing that, unfortunately. Then I'll try the Linux install from that USB drive.
I know your final target is lxde but the System Rescue iso has a very small footprint and it is great for slow connections. I have done it for several people in the past and it contains number of very useful tools for disk manipulation. It uses Debian apt tools for repository management and is based on well documented Gentoo linux. http://www.system-rescue-cd.org
5. Thanks also for the cautionary advice re: dial-up modem on Linux. I did some research earlier, but of course the proof will be in the actual attempt to use the modem :) I do plan to upgrade to a faster (and dedicated) Internet link !! Just wanted to try first with the dial-up modem. Trying to simplify my life by postponing the networking upgrade. And also out of plain perverse curiosity, more than anything else.
* * * * * *
Thanks again to GTALUG members for all the advice. Makes this whole shift from Windows XP to debian Linux soooo much more comfortable. No doubt I'll be back in touch again at some point, during the build adventure... :)
I use system rescue to prepare dual boot systems and troubleshoot with it all the time. My copy is on a very old 1gig usb pen drive. I wouldn't start a fresh install without having a copy available. Good luck with the build.
Best,
Steve
----- Original Message ----- From: Giles Orr To: Steve Petrie, P.Eng. ; GTALUG Talk Sent: Thursday, March 01, 2018 2:24 PM Subject: Re: [GTALUG] debian Linux -- Installation DVDs Full Set - Shipped To Canadian Destination ??
On 1 March 2018 at 09:28, Steve Petrie, P.Eng. via talk <talk@gtalug.org> wrote:
Greetings To GTALUG,
I am starting to order the parts for building a new desktop PC to run debian Linux as primary operating system. Replacing an ancient Dell desktop PC with MS Windows XP.
* * * * * *
I'm looking for a source for full set of physical debian Linux (LXDE) installation DVDs (NOT a live install, as I understand that Linux does not yet support live install with UEFI).
I need the installation DVDs because I use a very slow telephone-grade dial-up line modem for my Internet connection, so a Linux installation via network is not feasible. (I plan to try to keep using the dial-up line with the new debian Linux PC, at least for the first while. GTALUG advice put me on to the idea of using a USB dial-up modem with Linux.)
Found a U.S.A.-side vendor www.shoplinuxonline.org but am concerned about getting caught in snags with payment / collection of Canadian customs duties, that may be collected by courier delivering to the Canadian address from U.S.A
* * * * * *
Does anyone know of a Canadian-side online seller of debian Linux (LXDE) DVD installation sets ??
I could potentially beg use of a friend's Windows 10 setup on Bell Fibe, and download the debian Linux LXDE) DVD image files and burn the DVDs myself, but I prefer to avoid the hassle and probable mistakes.
Any thoughts from GTALUG members, on this piddling but potentially messy detail of getting a full set of debian Linux (LXDE) install DVDs, greatly appreciated !!
The last time I had to help someone with a modem on Linux 3-4 years ago, it was kind of a nightmare. Before you buy, make sure it has Linux support - and then spend some time researching what they mean by that, because one of the things I encountered was "has Linux support" meant "if you go pay someone else for a driver that only works with a specific kernel." I don't consider that real Linux support, so do your homework.
Keep in mind that every time a new kernel comes out (~once a month with Debian stable, ~every two weeks with testing??) you're in for an overnight (or at least multi-hour) download. I'm afraid you're going to find yourself dreading the 'apt-get dist-upgrade' command, which you _should_ run often.
I'd also add a vote for seeing if you can get USB media: it's a lot easier to deal with these days, and more common. It could also allow you to skip putting an optical drive into your new machine if you don't otherwise need it.
--
Giles https://www.gilesorr.com/ gilesorr@gmail.com
-- Russell
On March 3, 2018 9:44:25 AM EST, "Steve Petrie, P.Eng. via talk" <talk@gtalug.org> wrote:
Russell -- thanks for the tip about small footprint system rescue -- I'll try it.
Just a small correction and a confession. Gentoo uses Portage not Aptitude as its update manager. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portage_(software) I've never actually installed Gentoo but for a Linux pocket knife, you can't beat the System Rescue iso for portability and functions.
Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: Russell To: Steve Petrie, P.Eng. ; GTALUG Talk Sent: Friday, March 02, 2018 11:01 AM Subject: Re: [GTALUG] debian Linux -- Installation DVDs Full Set - Shipped To Canadian Destination ??
On March 2, 2018 10:25:16 AM EST, "Steve Petrie, P.Eng. via talk" <talk@gtalug.org> wrote:
Many thanks to the many helpful responders !!
Too many for me to thank individually ...
* * * * * *
Here is what I have digested and decided, based on GTALUG advivce received:
1. Thanks for the multiple offers to burn & ship DVDs and / or other media.
2. I'll accept the USB device advice, and use a USB device for the installation media.
3. I already own two (2) WD 1 TB USB drives, acquired for taking hard disk backups of the new PC. So I'll try using one of those for the debian Linux (LXDE) installation device.
4. My friend has a Windows 10 setup with high speed Internet connection so I'll see if he and I can get all three installation DVD images onto that USB drive. We can't use any Linux utilities while doing that, unfortunately. Then I'll try the Linux install from that USB drive.
I know your final target is lxde but the System Rescue iso has a very small footprint and it is great for slow connections. I have done it for several people in the past and it contains number of very useful tools for disk manipulation. It uses Debian apt tools for repository management and is based on well documented Gentoo linux.
http://www.system-rescue-cd.org
5. Thanks also for the cautionary advice re: dial-up modem on Linux. I did some research earlier, but of course the proof will be in the actual attempt to use the modem :) I do plan to upgrade to a faster (and dedicated) Internet link !! Just wanted to try first with the dial-up modem. Trying to simplify my life by postponing the networking upgrade. And also out of plain perverse curiosity, more than anything else.
* * * * * *
Thanks again to GTALUG members for all the advice. Makes this whole shift from Windows XP to debian Linux soooo much more comfortable. No doubt I'll be back in touch again at some point, during the build adventure... :)
I use system rescue to prepare dual boot systems and troubleshoot with it all the time. My copy is on a very old 1gig usb pen drive. I wouldn't start a fresh install without having a copy available.
Good luck with the build.
Best,
Steve
----- Original Message ----- From: Giles Orr To: Steve Petrie, P.Eng. ; GTALUG Talk Sent: Thursday, March 01, 2018 2:24 PM Subject: Re: [GTALUG] debian Linux -- Installation DVDs Full Set - Shipped To Canadian Destination ??
On 1 March 2018 at 09:28, Steve Petrie, P.Eng. via talk <talk@gtalug.org> wrote:
Greetings To GTALUG,
I am starting to order the parts for building a new desktop PC to run debian Linux as primary operating system. Replacing an ancient Dell desktop PC with MS Windows XP.
* * * * * *
I'm looking for a source for full set of physical debian Linux (LXDE) installation DVDs (NOT a live install, as I understand that Linux does not yet support live install with UEFI).
I need the installation DVDs because I use a very slow telephone-grade dial-up line modem for my Internet connection, so a Linux installation via network is not feasible. (I plan to try to keep using the dial-up line with the new debian Linux PC, at least for the first while.
GTALUG
advice put me on to the idea of using a USB dial-up modem with Linux.)
Found a U.S.A.-side vendor www.shoplinuxonline.org but am concerned about getting caught in snags with payment / collection of Canadian customs duties, that may be collected by courier delivering to the Canadian address from U.S.A
* * * * * *
Does anyone know of a Canadian-side online seller of debian Linux (LXDE) DVD installation sets ??
I could potentially beg use of a friend's Windows 10 setup on Bell Fibe, and download the debian Linux LXDE) DVD image files and burn the DVDs myself, but I prefer to avoid the hassle and probable mistakes.
Any thoughts from GTALUG members, on this piddling but potentially messy detail of getting a full set of debian Linux (LXDE) install DVDs, greatly appreciated !!
The last time I had to help someone with a modem on Linux 3-4 years ago, it was kind of a nightmare. Before you buy, make sure it has Linux support - and then spend some time researching what they mean by that, because one of the things I encountered was "has Linux support" meant "if you go pay someone else for a driver that only works with a specific kernel." I don't consider that real Linux support, so do your homework.
Keep in mind that every time a new kernel comes out (~once a month with Debian stable, ~every two weeks with testing??) you're in for an overnight (or at least multi-hour) download. I'm afraid you're going to find yourself dreading the 'apt-get dist-upgrade' command, which you _should_ run often.
I'd also add a vote for seeing if you can get USB media: it's a lot easier to deal with these days, and more common. It could also allow you to skip putting an optical drive into your new machine if you don't otherwise need it.
--
Giles https://www.gilesorr.com/ gilesorr@gmail.com
-- Russell
-- Russell
On Sat, Mar 3, 2018 at 9:44 AM, Steve Petrie P.Eng. wrote:
3. I already own two (2) WD 1 TB USB drives, acquired for taking hard disk backups of the new PC. So I'll try using one of those for the debian Linux (LXDE) installation device.
4. My friend has a Windows 10 setup with high speed Internet connection so I'll see if he and I can get all three installation DVD images onto that USB drive. We can't use any Linux utilities while doing that, unfortunately. Then I'll try the Linux install from that USB drive.
I know your final target is lxde but the System Rescue iso has a very small footprint and it is great for slow connections. I have done it for several people in the past and it contains number of very useful tools for disk manipulation.
IMO, - System Rescue iso is good for some one-off hacks e.g. disk manipulation but not a good way to do Debian Linux Installation. - Even if you get all three installation DVD images onto that 1TB USB drive, that may still be a less optimal option as you most probably need massive update during or right after the installation. The least-trouble option, contrary to what it seems, is to take your machine to your friend's place with high speed Internet connection, and do the initial installation there. All other options just defer the problems, which you will bump into sooner or later.
On March 3, 2018 10:52:45 AM EST, Antonio Sun via talk <talk@gtalug.org> wrote:
On Sat, Mar 3, 2018 at 9:44 AM, Steve Petrie P.Eng. wrote:
3. I already own two (2) WD 1 TB USB drives, acquired for taking
hard
disk backups of the new PC. So I'll try using one of those for the debian Linux (LXDE) installation device.
4. My friend has a Windows 10 setup with high speed Internet connection so I'll see if he and I can get all three installation DVD images onto that USB drive. We can't use any Linux utilities while doing that, unfortunately. Then I'll try the Linux install from that USB drive.
I know your final target is lxde but the System Rescue iso has a very small footprint and it is great for slow connections. I have done it for several people in the past and it contains number of very useful tools for disk manipulation.
IMO,
- System Rescue iso is good for some one-off hacks e.g. disk manipulation but not a good way to do Debian Linux Installation.
Why not? It's a very small download, fits on a cd and as a live distro it supports multiple file systems. Its a pretty good way to get started with the look and feel of GNU linux. Just remember to type startx at the console and you are good to go. You could explore and scarify old disks for reuse, or lay the foundations for the new.
- Even if you get all three installation DVD images onto that 1TB USB drive, that may still be a less optimal option as you most probably need massive update during or right after the installation.
Updates are optional. If there is an issue for some security reasons, or something needs to be managed under some policy or other, you will be glad you wet your feet on a live distro first.
The least-trouble option, contrary to what it seems, is to take your machine to your friend's place with high speed Internet connection, and do the initial installation there. All other options just defer the problems, which you will bump into sooner or later.
I find a usb pen and a few disks to be a lot easier to carry around with me than an entire system assembly. They get heavy and you can bump into problems there as well. At least optical disks are cheap and resilient. -- Russell
Replies below. Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: Russell via talk To: Antonio Sun ; GTALUG Talk ; Antonio Sun via talk Sent: Saturday, March 03, 2018 12:26 PM Subject: Re: [GTALUG] debian Linux -- Installation DVDs Full Set - ShippedTo Canadian Destination ?? On March 3, 2018 10:52:45 AM EST, Antonio Sun via talk <talk@gtalug.org> wrote:
On Sat, Mar 3, 2018 at 9:44 AM, Steve Petrie P.Eng. wrote:
3. I already own two (2) WD 1 TB USB drives, acquired for taking
hard
disk backups of the new PC. So I'll try using one of those for the debian Linux (LXDE) installation device.
<snip>
IMO,
- System Rescue iso is good for some one-off hacks e.g. disk manipulation but not a good way to do Debian Linux Installation.
Why not? It's a very small download, fits on a cd and as a live distro it supports multiple file systems. Its a pretty good way to get started with the look and feel of GNU linux. Just remember to type startx at the console and you are good to go. You could explore and scarify old disks for reuse, or lay the foundations for the new.
- Even if you get all three installation DVD images onto that 1TB USB drive, that may still be a less optimal option as you most probably need massive update during or right after the installation.
Updates are optional. If there is an issue for some security reasons, or something needs to be managed under some policy or other, you will be glad you wet your feet on a live distro first.
The least-trouble option, contrary to what it seems, is to take your machine to your friend's place with high speed Internet connection, and do the initial installation there. All other options just defer the problems, which you will bump into sooner or later.
I find a usb pen and a few disks to be a lot easier to carry around with me than an entire system assembly. They get heavy and you can bump into problems there as well. At least optical disks are cheap and resilient. My mind did wander back to the advantages of DVD versus USB memory sticks. And the mention of "cheap and resilient" adds to the attraction. Maybe start with System Rescue on a CD / DVD. And use USB memory stick(s) for the regular debian Linux install isos, that will need to be updated on a frequent basis ?? I need the optical drive on the new PC anyway, for playing music on a few CDs. -- Russell --- Talk Mailing List talk@gtalug.org https://gtalug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
On March 4, 2018 8:55:11 AM EST, "Steve Petrie, P.Eng. via talk" <talk@gtalug.org> wrote:
Replies below.
Steve
----- Original Message ----- From: Russell via talk To: Antonio Sun ; GTALUG Talk ; Antonio Sun via talk Sent: Saturday, March 03, 2018 12:26 PM Subject: Re: [GTALUG] debian Linux -- Installation DVDs Full Set - ShippedTo Canadian Destination ??
On March 3, 2018 10:52:45 AM EST, Antonio Sun via talk <talk@gtalug.org> wrote:
On Sat, Mar 3, 2018 at 9:44 AM, Steve Petrie P.Eng. wrote:
3. I already own two (2) WD 1 TB USB drives, acquired for taking
hard
disk backups of the new PC. So I'll try using one of those for the debian Linux (LXDE) installation device.
<snip>
IMO,
- System Rescue iso is good for some one-off hacks e.g. disk manipulation but not a good way to do Debian Linux Installation.
Why not? It's a very small download, fits on a cd and as a live distro it supports multiple file systems. Its a pretty good way to get started with the look and feel of GNU linux.
Just remember to type startx at the console and you are good to go. You could explore and scarify old disks for reuse, or lay the foundations for the new.
- Even if you get all three installation DVD images onto that 1TB USB drive, that may still be a less optimal option as you most probably need massive update during or right after the installation.
Updates are optional. If there is an issue for some security reasons, or something needs to be managed under some policy or other, you will be glad you wet your feet on a live distro first.
The least-trouble option, contrary to what it seems, is to take your machine to your friend's place with high speed Internet connection,
and
do the initial installation there. All other options just defer the problems, which you will bump into sooner or later.
I find a usb pen and a few disks to be a lot easier to carry around with me than an entire system assembly. They get heavy and you can bump into problems there as well. At least optical disks are cheap and resilient. My mind did wander back to the advantages of DVD versus USB memory sticks. And the mention of "cheap and resilient" adds to the attraction. Maybe start with System Rescue on a CD / DVD.
And use USB memory stick(s) for the regular debian Linux install isos, that will need to be updated on a frequent basis ??
I need the optical drive on the new PC anyway, for playing music on a few CDs.
USB pens have one advantage over CD's, in that it is possible to have a live distro which also has persistent storage on the stick. There are tutorials for linux and I believe a free app for Windows which will set this up for you. It is possible to use the System Rescue iso as the base for a permanent install to a fixed disk, but the steps are kind of convoluted compared to other live images which provide an install routine. It may or may not be trivial to place the System Rescue iso on a larger usb pen with persistent storage. At that point, without high speed at home and to save bandwidth, you could make note of required package updates sizes and update small packages over dialup and larger or more numerous correlated packages elsewhere. Dpkg is the native tool for extracting and installing .deb files. Aptitude is the tool for managing those packages from a central download repository. A short blurb on how Gentoo deals with extracting .deb files may be found here. https://devmanual.gentoo.org/ebuild-writing/functions/src_unpack/deb-sources... Of course once your system is installed and working you should get essential update notices while dialed in. You could make note of those you really need and copy them to any portable medium. There is no real need to use a live distro with storage, but this is a real world task which will help you to familiarize yourself with linux filesystems and the tools that go along with it.
-- Russell --- Talk Mailing List talk@gtalug.org https://gtalug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
-- Russell
Pls. see below. Steve Oakville, Ontario, Canada (905) 847-3253 apetrie@aspetrie.net ----- Original Message ----- From: Antonio Sun via talk To: GTALUG Talk Sent: Saturday, March 03, 2018 10:52 AM Subject: Re: [GTALUG] debian Linux -- Installation DVDs Full Set - Shipped To Canadian Destination ?? On Sat, Mar 3, 2018 at 9:44 AM, Steve Petrie P.Eng. wrote: >3. I already own two (2) WD 1 TB USB drives, acquired for taking hard >disk backups of the new PC. So I'll try using one of those for the >debian Linux (LXDE) installation device. > >4. My friend has a Windows 10 setup with high speed Internet connection >so I'll see if he and I can get all three installation DVD images onto >that USB drive. We can't use any Linux utilities while doing that, >unfortunately. Then I'll try the Linux install from that USB drive. I know your final target is lxde but the System Rescue iso has a very small footprint and it is great for slow connections. I have done it for several people in the past and it contains number of very useful tools for disk manipulation. IMO, - System Rescue iso is good for some one-off hacks e.g. disk manipulation but not a good way to do Debian Linux Installation. - Even if you get all three installation DVD images onto that 1TB USB drive, that may still be a less optimal option as you most probably need massive update during or right after the installation. The least-trouble option, contrary to what it seems, is to take your machine to your friend's place with high speed Internet connection, and do the initial installation there. All other options just defer the problems, which you will bump into sooner or later. I likely will be building the new PC at my friend's place. Before I teke the new PC home with me, to do all the work of installing debian Linux for regular use, I want to check the new PC to make sure that at least it can boot Linux and mess around with the hardware (e.g. create files). System Rescue seems perfect to me, for doing this Linux compatibility pre-qualification at my friend's place. * ** * * * Certainly I could probably use my friend's high-speed link to do a painless install of debian Linux. But I want to perform the debian install in such a way that I am completely independent of any other facilities. And also to be independent of any need for a network connection to be able to do a fresh installation of debian Linux. So I need to have the debian Linux installation isos on portable physical media in a format that will boot into the installation process. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ --- Talk Mailing List talk@gtalug.org https://gtalug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
On Sun, Mar 4, 2018 at 8:53 AM, Steve Petrie, P.Eng. via talk < talk@gtalug.org> wrote:
I likely will be building the new PC at my friend's place. Before I teke the new PC home with me, to do all the work of installing debian Linux for regular use, I want to check the new PC to make sure that at least it can boot Linux and mess around with the hardware (e.g. create files).
System Rescue seems perfect to me, for doing this Linux compatibility pre-qualification at my friend's place.
* ** * * *
Certainly I could probably use my friend's high-speed link to do a painless install of debian Linux.
But I want to perform the debian install in such a way that I am completely independent of any other facilities.
This reminds me of the Gentoo fans who thought that they were somehow more "in control" of their machines just because they were copying/pasting commands from the Gentoo forums and building Gentoo from source. It was an exercise in yak shaving, just as an offline installation when you have access to a broadband connection is and just as configuring a dial-up connection knowing that you're switching to broadband Internet anyway is. Taken to the extreme, I suppose you could get a printout of all the software you intend to install and start transcribing. :)
And also to be independent of any need for a network connection to be able to do a fresh installation of debian Linux.
I don't know if you realize that you have spent more time talking/writing about this than it would have to download and install Debian. If you are at your friend's place and your friend has a broadband connection, you'll have Debian running in about 20 minutes with a reasonable network connection. Installing this way does not preclude you from using a dial-up connection to update later. In fact, if you install via a DVD, you're going to have to change /etc/apt/sources.list to point to the online repos that your machine should fetch from when you connect via dial-up. Otherwise, it will check for updates on the DVD. If you install using your broadband connection, you won't have to change a thing in sources.list to update later when or if you get dial-up working. If I were in your shoes, I would download the Debian netinstall CD, which is just over 300M. That is small enough that you can even do that over your dial-up connection. I would boot from the netinstall image and install away while you have a broadband connection. Subsequent updates generally won't be that big so if you get dial-up working, you'll be able to do the updates when you connect. I say "if you get it working" because I don't remember what type of modem you're starting with. If you have an exernal modem, you should be fine. Internal modems are dicier. There were many that were WinModems and those wouldn't work 20 years ago when dial-up was commonly used. In those days, I used to use wvdial. I see that it's still available in Debian <https://wiki.debian.org/Wvdial>. Regards, Clifford Ilkay +1 647-778-8696
On Sun, Mar 4, 2018 at 10:31 PM, Clifford Ilkay via talk <talk@gtalug.org> wrote:
On Sun, Mar 4, 2018 at 8:53 AM, Steve Petrie, P.Eng. via talk < talk@gtalug.org> wrote:
I likely will be building the new PC at my friend's place. Before I teke the new PC home with me, to do all the work of installing debian Linux for regular use, I want to check the new PC to make sure that at least it can boot Linux and mess around with the hardware (e.g. create files).
System Rescue seems perfect to me, for doing this Linux compatibility pre-qualification at my friend's place.
* ** * * *
Certainly I could probably use my friend's high-speed link to do a painless install of debian Linux.
But I want to perform the debian install in such a way that I am completely independent of any other facilities.
This reminds me of the Gentoo fans who thought that they were somehow more "in control" of their machines just because they were copying/pasting commands from the Gentoo forums and building Gentoo from source. It was an exercise in yak shaving, just as an offline installation when you have access to a broadband connection is and just as configuring a dial-up connection knowing that you're switching to broadband Internet anyway is. Taken to the extreme, I suppose you could get a printout of all the software you intend to install and start transcribing. :)
And also to be independent of any need for a network connection to be able to do a fresh installation of debian Linux.
I don't know if you realize that you have spent more time talking/writing about this than it would have to download and install Debian. If you are at your friend's place and your friend has a broadband connection, you'll have Debian running in about 20 minutes with a reasonable network connection. Installing this way does not preclude you from using a dial-up connection to update later. In fact, if you install via a DVD, you're going to have to change /etc/apt/sources.list to point to the online repos that your machine should fetch from when you connect via dial-up. Otherwise, it will check for updates on the DVD. If you install using your broadband connection, you won't have to change a thing in sources.list to update later when or if you get dial-up working.
Have been only following this thread but it has devolved into almost diatribes by those, that to me at least, just don't get one part of the op's problem. I am on wireless 'high-speed' internet here and 20 minutes for a net-install system is a dream - - - NOT a reality. It seems that those in major urban centers believe that all of the world is able to function as they are and in this case, internet access and speeds, nothing could be further from the truth. In fact I am paying more for my paltry 9 down/ 2 up access than urban connections pay for 75 down. And I'm on 'high-speed' (purportedly even if not in fact!). So if the op is limited to dial-up - - - for pete's sake cut him some slack. He's already talking about using a friend's access for the initial download but the headache factor, especially with a desktop system, of continuing to rely on outside access - - - well its huge. I empathize because for a period of time just a few years ago I had access that was supposed to be 2 down and 0.5 up yet in fact was most often about 0.3 down and the up was 0.15 or so. Doing an on-line banking transaction was a 5 to 8 minute ordeal - - a system install was a 12 to 14 hour problem (all the while hoping that the connection wouldn't die). So perhaps instead of smugly prating about how you would do it - - - perhaps you might actually assist in developing a solution that will work for the op in HIS circumstances - - - - NOT YOURS (yes I meant to yell - - - I'm finding the last serious of comments quite tedious and very infuriating in their arrogance! In fact the suggestions are starting to sounds quite like the government bureaucrats in this same area). Dee
On Mon, Mar 5, 2018 at 7:23 AM, o1bigtenor <o1bigtenor@gmail.com> wrote:
So if the op is limited to dial-up - - - for pete's sake cut him some slack. He's already talking about using a friend's access for the initial download but the headache factor, especially with a desktop system, of continuing to rely on outside access - - - well its huge. I empathize because for a period of time just a few years ago I had access that was supposed to be 2 down and 0.5 up yet in fact was most often about 0.3 down and the up was 0.15 or so. Doing an on-line banking transaction was a 5 to 8 minute ordeal - - a system install was a 12 to 14 hour problem (all the while hoping that the connection wouldn't die).
A netinstall would not be feasible if you cannot count on your connection to stay up for the duration of the installation. You'd be better off downloading an ISO image via BitTorrent or rsync, something that can resume the download. You would still have to deal with the fact that your ISO image is going to be out-of-date so the first update may be hundreds of megs.
So perhaps instead of smugly prating about how you would do it - - - perhaps you might actually assist in developing a solution that will work for the op in HIS circumstances - - - - NOT YOURS (yes I meant to yell - - - I'm finding the last serious of comments quite tedious and very infuriating in their arrogance! In fact the suggestions are starting to sounds quite like the government bureaucrats in this same area).
Solution: install at friend's house. Updates are still going to be an issue, though most updates tend not to be more than a few megs. Regards, Clifford Ilkay +1 647-778-8696 <(647)%20778-8696>
On Mon 05 Mar 2018 11:04 -0500, Clifford Ilkay via talk wrote:
A netinstall would not be feasible if you cannot count on your connection to stay up for the duration of the installation. You'd be better off downloading an ISO image via BitTorrent or rsync, something that can resume the download.
In 2018 Debian cannot perform resumable downloads in its installer and package manager?
On Mon, Mar 05, 2018 at 12:07:11PM -0500, Loui Chang via talk wrote:
In 2018 Debian cannot perform resumable downloads in its installer and package manager?
I believe if it times out and you retry it will resume, but it would still be painful. I don't remember if the installer has dialup support or not. The documentation appears to claim it does support dialup. It would be extremely painful to use though given the number of hours it would take. -- Len Sorensen
Remember Lennart's comment? Debian is not 3 DVD images. It is 14 DVD images or 3 BD images.
About 60GB total for the images.
The installation disk *might *be 3 DVD images, then you'll face the massive update requirement/problem I pointed out earlier, which you need all the above 14 DVDs to overcome. On Mon, Mar 5, 2018 at 11:04 AM, Clifford Ilkay via talk wrote:
Solution: install at friend's house. Updates are still going to be an issue, though most updates tend not to be more than a few megs.
Yep, agree, that's the *only *viable/practical choice. Everything else will give you more trouble than you'd ask for, and no one can help, because no one does in those ways.
On Mon, Mar 5, 2018 at 3:30 PM, Antonio Sun via talk <talk@gtalug.org> wrote:
Remember Lennart's comment?
Debian is not 3 DVD images. It is 14 DVD images or 3 BD images.
About 60GB total for the images.
The installation disk *might *be 3 DVD images, then you'll face the massive update requirement/problem I pointed out earlier, which you need all the above 14 DVDs to overcome.
On Mon, Mar 5, 2018 at 11:04 AM, Clifford Ilkay via talk wrote:
Solution: install at friend's house. Updates are still going to be an issue, though most updates tend not to be more than a few megs.
Yep, agree, that's the *only *viable/practical choice.
Everything else will give you more trouble than you'd ask for, and no one can help, because no one does in those ways.
Sorry - - - one DVD has enough so that I could install everything I wanted. That was for Debian 9 (present stable). So downloading one DVD of material IS a viable AND and practical choice if necessity demands it.
Dee
On March 5, 2018 4:30:42 PM EST, Antonio Sun via talk <talk@gtalug.org> wrote:
Remember Lennart's comment?
Debian is not 3 DVD images. It is 14 DVD images or 3 BD images.
About 60GB total for the images.
The installation disk *might *be 3 DVD images, then you'll face the massive update requirement/problem I pointed out earlier, which you need all the above 14 DVDs to overcome.
No, you would just need to know which files require updates for your needs. Updates are like telephone calls, they don't have to be accepted. In fact as a general practice, its usually recommended not to update stuff you don't particularly need to use or you don't understand, in order to minimize the chances of breaking something you do understand and use.
On Mon, Mar 5, 2018 at 11:04 AM, Clifford Ilkay via talk wrote:
Solution: install at friend's house. Updates are still going to be an issue, though most updates tend not to be more than a few megs.
Yep, agree, that's the *only *viable/practical choice.
Everything else will give you more trouble than you'd ask for, and no one can help, because no one does in those ways.
I don't get it, what's so hard about choosing which packages to download opportunistically for later offline installation? dpkg and apt all have query tools to use to sort out dependency issues. What if he wants to air gap a node of a trusted network for data security reasons? Businesses do that sort of thing all the time in order to protect their trade secrets from snoops and scrapes and spooks. -- Russell
On Sat, Mar 03, 2018 at 10:52:45AM -0500, Antonio Sun via talk wrote:
- System Rescue iso is good for some one-off hacks e.g. disk manipulation but not a good way to do Debian Linux Installation. - Even if you get all three installation DVD images onto that 1TB USB drive, that may still be a less optimal option as you most probably need massive update during or right after the installation.
The least-trouble option, contrary to what it seems, is to take your machine to your friend's place with high speed Internet connection, and do the initial installation there. All other options just defer the problems, which you will bump into sooner or later.
Debian is not 3 DVD images. It is 14 DVD images or 3 BD images. About 60GB total for the images. -- Len Sorensen
Thanks to all who have contributed to the discussion. All comments read with great interest. * * * * * * I have been able to use a public-access workstation at my local public library branch, to download onto my USB hard drive (WD "Elements" model, pre-fomatted with NTFS): a.. the three debian Linux installation DVD isos; b.. the System Rescue iso; c.. the Windows installer .exe for unetbootin; We are allowed to plug in our own USB devices (at least a USB hard drive works) to the library's public-access worlstations, and download files over the very fast Internet connection there. * * * * * * I had thought that the three (3) DVDs listed on the : https://cdimage.debian.org/debiabn-cd/current/amd64/iso-dvd/ page, were all I needed to get a fairly current debian Linux installed on my new PC. But now, with Lennart's comment about 3 BDs versus 13 DVDs, I'm very confused. Looks like I need to do more research to understand exactly how many GB of debian Linux installation & update files, I am going to need to download. I'm not a huge fan of doing massive software updates. I tend to be leery of just blindly updating software that is working fine. So picking and choosing what I update works for me. Regardless, looks like its Back to the Browser, for more self-education ... * * * * * * There is some kind of CD burning utility software icon, on the main desktop display of the library workstation, so I'm going to see if this software can create a bootable Syatem Rescue image on a USB memory stick, from the System Rescue iso I have already downloaded to my USB hard drive. Given the low prices i am seeing for USB memory sticks, my thinking is to buy two (2) and use one for a System Rescue boot stick, and the other for a debian Linux installation boot stick. Thanks again to all commenters ... Best Regards, Steve * * * Steve Petrie, P.Eng. Oakville, Ontario, Canada (905) 847-3253 apetrie@aspetrie.net ----- Original Message ----- From: Lennart Sorensen via talk To: Antonio Sun ; GTALUG Talk Sent: Monday, March 05, 2018 10:16 AM Subject: Re: [GTALUG] debian Linux -- Installation DVDs Full Set - Shipped To Canadian Destination ?? On Sat, Mar 03, 2018 at 10:52:45AM -0500, Antonio Sun via talk wrote:
- System Rescue iso is good for some one-off hacks e.g. disk manipulation but not a good way to do Debian Linux Installation. - Even if you get all three installation DVD images onto that 1TB USB drive, that may still be a less optimal option as you most probably need massive update during or right after the installation.
The least-trouble option, contrary to what it seems, is to take your machine to your friend's place with high speed Internet connection, and do the initial installation there. All other options just defer the problems, which you will bump into sooner or later.
Debian is not 3 DVD images. It is 14 DVD images or 3 BD images. About 60GB total for the images. -- Len Sorensen --- Talk Mailing List talk@gtalug.org https://gtalug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
On Tue, Mar 06, 2018 at 08:56:29AM -0500, Steve Petrie, P.Eng. via talk wrote:
Thanks to all who have contributed to the discussion.
All comments read with great interest.
* * * * * *
I have been able to use a public-access workstation at my local public library branch, to download onto my USB hard drive (WD "Elements" model, pre-fomatted with NTFS): a.. the three debian Linux installation DVD isos; b.. the System Rescue iso; c.. the Windows installer .exe for unetbootin; We are allowed to plug in our own USB devices (at least a USB hard drive works) to the library's public-access worlstations, and download files over the very fast Internet connection there.
* * * * * *
I had thought that the three (3) DVDs listed on the : https://cdimage.debian.org/debiabn-cd/current/amd64/iso-dvd/
page, were all I needed to get a fairly current debian Linux installed on my new PC.
But now, with Lennart's comment about 3 BDs versus 13 DVDs, I'm very confused.
Debian does not offer downloads of all the images by http. They tell you to use jigdo to download them or bittorrent. There is a comment on the download page where it shows the 3 DVD images about this. Of course they also say most people will never need the rest of the images and should do a network install instead. This is of course what 99.9% of users would do. On the https://cdimage.debian.org/debian-cd/current/amd64/iso-dvd/ page is says: "Only the first few images are available! Where are the rest? We don't store/serve the full set of ISO images for all architectures, to reduce the amount of space taken up on the mirrors. You can use the jigdo tool to recreate the missing ISO images instead." -- Len Sorensen
On 6 March 2018 at 12:16, Lennart Sorensen via talk <talk@gtalug.org> wrote:
Thanks to all who have contributed to the discussion.
All comments read with great interest.
* * * * * *
I have been able to use a public-access workstation at my local public
a.. the three debian Linux installation DVD isos; b.. the System Rescue iso; c.. the Windows installer .exe for unetbootin; We are allowed to plug in our own USB devices (at least a USB hard drive works) to the library's public-access worlstations, and download files over
On Tue, Mar 06, 2018 at 08:56:29AM -0500, Steve Petrie, P.Eng. via talk wrote: library branch, to download onto my USB hard drive (WD "Elements" model, pre-fomatted with NTFS): the very fast Internet connection there.
* * * * * *
I had thought that the three (3) DVDs listed on the : https://cdimage.debian.org/debiabn-cd/current/amd64/iso-dvd/
page, were all I needed to get a fairly current debian Linux installed
on my new PC.
But now, with Lennart's comment about 3 BDs versus 13 DVDs, I'm very
confused.
Debian does not offer downloads of all the images by http. They tell you to use jigdo to download them or bittorrent. There is a comment on the download page where it shows the 3 DVD images about this.
Of course they also say most people will never need the rest of the images and should do a network install instead. This is of course what 99.9% of users would do.
On the https://cdimage.debian.org/debian-cd/current/amd64/iso-dvd/ page is says:
"Only the first few images are available! Where are the rest?
We don't store/serve the full set of ISO images for all architectures, to reduce the amount of space taken up on the mirrors. You can use the jigdo tool to recreate the missing ISO images instead."
Unfortunately, you won't be able to run jigdo on the TPL computers. If you're running your own laptop on TPL's wireless, you could do this. But that won't be as fast as their wired public access machines. It'll take literally hours (I'd guess 4-5 hours, but it depends on the branch and could be worse). I think the probability of your wanting any software from the fourth through 13th DVDs is extremely slim, and you shouldn't worry about it. If you do need it, that's the stuff you put up with downloading later because it's actually MORE hassle to get DVDs 4-13 now. They front-load the most wanted stuff onto the first three DVDs. -- Giles https://www.gilesorr.com/ gilesorr@gmail.com
On Tue, Mar 06, 2018 at 01:51:58PM -0500, Giles Orr wrote:
Unfortunately, you won't be able to run jigdo on the TPL computers. If you're running your own laptop on TPL's wireless, you could do this. But that won't be as fast as their wired public access machines. It'll take literally hours (I'd guess 4-5 hours, but it depends on the branch and could be worse).
I think the probability of your wanting any software from the fourth through 13th DVDs is extremely slim, and you shouldn't worry about it. If you do need it, that's the stuff you put up with downloading later because it's actually MORE hassle to get DVDs 4-13 now. They front-load the most wanted stuff onto the first three DVDs.
Absolutely true. I was just saying that getting those 3 DVDs does not mean you have _everything_. Just the most popular stuff. -- Len Sorensen
On Fri, Mar 02, 2018 at 10:25:16AM -0500, Steve Petrie, P.Eng. via talk wrote:
Many thanks to the many helpful responders !!
Too many for me to thank individually ...
* * * * * *
Here is what I have digested and decided, based on GTALUG advivce received:
1. Thanks for the multiple offers to burn & ship DVDs and / or other media.
2. I'll accept the USB device advice, and use a USB device for the installation media.
3. I already own two (2) WD 1 TB USB drives, acquired for taking hard disk backups of the new PC. So I'll try using one of those for the debian Linux (LXDE) installation device.
4. My friend has a Windows 10 setup with high speed Internet connection so I'll see if he and I can get all three installation DVD images onto that USB drive. We can't use any Linux utilities while doing that, unfortunately. Then I'll try the Linux install from that USB drive.
5. Thanks also for the cautionary advice re: dial-up modem on Linux. I did some research earlier, but of course the proof will be in the actual attempt to use the modem :) I do plan to upgrade to a faster (and dedicated) Internet link !! Just wanted to try first with the dial-up modem. Trying to simplify my life by postponing the networking upgrade. And also out of plain perverse curiosity, more than anything else.
Nothing could simplify life more than avoiding dial-up. -- Len Sorensen
See below. Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: Lennart Sorensen To: Steve Petrie, P.Eng. ; GTALUG Talk Cc: Giles Orr Sent: Friday, March 02, 2018 11:24 AM Subject: Re: [GTALUG] debian Linux -- Installation DVDs Full Set - Shipped To Canadian Destination ?? On Fri, Mar 02, 2018 at 10:25:16AM -0500, Steve Petrie, P.Eng. via talk wrote:
Many thanks to the many helpful responders !!
Too many for me to thank individually ...
<snip>
5. Thanks also for the cautionary advice re: dial-up modem on Linux. I did some research earlier, but of course the proof will be in the actual attempt to use the modem :) I do plan to upgrade to a faster (and dedicated) Internet link !! Just wanted to try first with the dial-up modem. Trying to simplify my life by postponing the networking upgrade. And also out of plain perverse curiosity, more than anything else.
Nothing could simplify life more than avoiding dial-up. -- Len Sorensen Probably true that dial-up under Linux will be fiddly as heck ... But if I give up on dial-up under debian Linux without a fight, then I won't be the same rabidly independent Windows XP "orphan" outlier, migrating to Linux instead of Windows 10 ...
On 2018-03-03 09:45 AM, Steve Petrie, P.Eng. via talk wrote:
Probably�true that dial-up under Linux will be fiddly as heck ...
In my early days of using Linux I had used dial-up for Internet access. I also wrote information in a book about how I had set things up so I could reference the should I need it again. I have notes from 1995 about how I configured Linux to access the network of the company I was working at via dial-up using pppd. I have notes from October of 1996 where things had changed and the way to get a PPP link via dial-up in Linux 2.0 was using dip. It has been a long time since I last used dial-up. I don't know if dip is still the way to get dial-up network access or if there is something newer available. pppd and dip will give you something to research. The GUI configuration tools might have options that will make setting up dial-up easy. If not, I can type up some of my notes for you of what I did back in the day. -- Cheers! Kevin. http://www.ve3syb.ca/ |"Nerds make the shiny things that distract Owner of Elecraft K2 #2172 | the mouth-breathers, and that's why we're | powerful!" #include <disclaimer/favourite> | --Chris Hardwick
Appreciate the offer of assist with dial-up !! Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: Kevin Cozens via talk To: talk@gtalug.org Sent: Saturday, March 03, 2018 12:20 PM Subject: Re: [GTALUG] debian Linux -- Installation DVDs Full Set - Shipped To Canadian Destination ?? On 2018-03-03 09:45 AM, Steve Petrie, P.Eng. via talk wrote:
Probably�true that dial-up under Linux will be fiddly as heck ...
In my early days of using Linux I had used dial-up for Internet access. I also wrote information in a book about how I had set things up so I could reference the should I need it again. I have notes from 1995 about how I configured Linux to access the network of the company I was working at via dial-up using pppd. I have notes from October of 1996 where things had changed and the way to get a PPP link via dial-up in Linux 2.0 was using dip. It has been a long time since I last used dial-up. I don't know if dip is still the way to get dial-up network access or if there is something newer available. pppd and dip will give you something to research. The GUI configuration tools might have options that will make setting up dial-up easy. If not, I can type up some of my notes for you of what I did back in the day. -- Cheers! Kevin. http://www.ve3syb.ca/ |"Nerds make the shiny things that distract Owner of Elecraft K2 #2172 | the mouth-breathers, and that's why we're | powerful!" #include <disclaimer/favourite> | --Chris Hardwick --- Talk Mailing List talk@gtalug.org https://gtalug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
participants (13)
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Alex Volkov -
Andrew Paolucci -
Anthony de Boer -
Antonio Sun -
Clifford Ilkay -
David Collier-Brown -
Giles Orr -
Kevin Cozens -
Loui Chang -
lsorense＠csclub.uwaterloo.ca -
o1bigtenor -
Russell -
Steve Petrie, P.Eng.