[GTALUG-Announce] GTALUG: COVID-19 Impact
The ongoing COVID-19 problem has made it impossible to hold our monthly meetings at Ryerson. Our meetings are held at Ryerson University; the University has declared [1] that, to help diminish the spread of the virus, they are eliminating all discretionary activities on (and off) campus until May 1, 2020. GTALUG certainly falls in the "discretionary activity" category, therefore we do not have availability of that space. It is, of course, entirely likely that the May 1 date will shift as the situation evolves. Further, the Ontario Government has banned getting together in groups of 50 or more [2] (it would be no surprise for that to go down further), and in view of the risks of the virus, it would not be at all responsible for GTALUG to attempt to shift to other locations; that would not fit well with the "social and physical distancing" concept in use to try to diminish spread of the virus. We are trying to see what we can do about alternative mechanisms, so that discussions may take place online. The mailing list remains active, of course; we hope to see more ideas emerge over the next couple of weeks. [1] https://www.ryerson.ca/news-events/news/2020/03/president-mohamed-lachemi-an... [2] https://www.ontario.ca/page/2019-novel-coronavirus -- Chris Browne --- GTALUG Announce mailing list announce@gtalug.org https://gtalug.org/mailman/listinfo/announce
Hi, Long-time lurker here. I’d be happy to provide virtual hosting for GTA LUG proceedings and meetings via Zoom or MS Teams. I work at UofT and I believe I can get GTA LUG meetings hosted on our infrastructure. Alternatively, if we can get sponsored (or have other means/resources available) we could organize a free/libre based solution to hold virtual meetings. Thoughts? Rouben On Thu, Mar 26, 2020 at 14:23 Christopher Browne <cbbrowne@gmail.com> wrote:
The ongoing COVID-19 problem has made it impossible to hold our monthly meetings at Ryerson.
Our meetings are held at Ryerson University; the University has declared [1] that, to help diminish the spread of the virus, they are eliminating all discretionary activities on (and off) campus until May 1, 2020. GTALUG certainly falls in the "discretionary activity" category, therefore we do not have availability of that space. It is, of course, entirely likely that the May 1 date will shift as the situation evolves.
Further, the Ontario Government has banned getting together in groups of 50 or more [2] (it would be no surprise for that to go down further), and in view of the risks of the virus, it would not be at all responsible for GTALUG to attempt to shift to other locations; that would not fit well with the "social and physical distancing" concept in use to try to diminish spread of the virus.
We are trying to see what we can do about alternative mechanisms, so that discussions may take place online. The mailing list remains active, of course; we hope to see more ideas emerge over the next couple of weeks.
[1] https://www.ryerson.ca/news-events/news/2020/03/president-mohamed-lachemi-an... [2] https://www.ontario.ca/page/2019-novel-coronavirus -- Chris Browne --- GTALUG Announce mailing list announce@gtalug.org https://gtalug.org/mailman/listinfo/announce
-- Rouben
On Thu, 26 Mar 2020 at 14:42, Rouben via talk <talk@gtalug.org> wrote:
Hi,
Long-time lurker here.
I’d be happy to provide virtual hosting for GTA LUG proceedings and meetings via Zoom or MS Teams. I work at UofT and I believe I can get GTA LUG meetings hosted on our infrastructure.
Alternatively, if we can get sponsored (or have other means/resources available) we could organize a free/libre based solution to hold virtual meetings.
Thoughts?
Evan has already weighed in with availability of a Zoom 'room', which the board has used a fair bit for board meetings, but it's surely a fine thing to have options. Our last board meeting we used the "libre" option, Jitsi, for which Alex has set up a VM. Alex seems to be proposing to spin up an instance of that. I suggest getting in on the conversation about that. To my mind, having more possible solutions is better than having fewer, although we'll need to pick something specific pretty soon :-). -- When confronted by a difficult problem, solve it by reducing it to the question, "How would the Lone Ranger handle this?"
Hi (lurker in Montreal, here), On Thu, Mar 26, 2020 at 04:06:26PM -0400, Christopher Browne via talk wrote:
On Thu, 26 Mar 2020 at 14:42, Rouben via talk <talk@gtalug.org> wrote:
Hi,
Long-time lurker here.
I’d be happy to provide virtual hosting for GTA LUG proceedings and meetings via Zoom or MS Teams. I work at UofT and I believe I can get GTA LUG meetings hosted on our infrastructure.
[snip]
Our last board meeting we used the "libre" option, Jitsi, for which Alex has set up a VM. Alex seems to be proposing to spin up an instance of that. I suggest getting in on the conversation about that.
To my mind, having more possible solutions is better than having fewer, although we'll need to pick something specific pretty soon :-). [snip]
The local Debian group tried out BigBlueButton a couple of days ago. It's similar to jitsi and is also opensource. We were hitting an instance in Italy so there was some lag on the audio, though the video seemed to be pretty instantaneous. https://bigbluebutton.org/ -- Znoteer znoteer@mailbox.org
Hey Znoteer, Do you have a rough estimate how much CPU bigbluebutton was using during the conference and for how many people? So far I've been inclining to spin up a VM with 4-8 dedicated CPUs that should give some extra headroom for our average meeting size, and have Zoom as a backup. My only problem with zoom is that it requires to install proprietary client, which I might not work on every linux distro and not everyone might everyone will agree to use. We were planning to have a Q&A session, we don't need video recording feature as we don't record Q&A as a matter of preference. I also opened a pool on which video conferencing solution we should use for the next meeting -- https://mastodon.social/@gtalug/103886518041900393 I was convinced to try out Jitsi following this thread -- https://octodon.social/@cwebber/103811788098843117 I like Jitsi because: * Fully open-source * Doesn't require browser plugins * easy to set up with let's encrypt * I already wrote some ansible scripts that help me create working servers quickly I don't like Jitsi: * iOS app is a bit confusing * I had some issues with video-bridge and nginx fighting over https port on the server For our executive meeting of 5 people having video calls at the same time Jitsi was using 60% of CPU on the smallest instance, probably due to all of the encryption going on. We were using the smallest hetzner instance available 1vcpu/2GB ram in Finland and I don't think that we've had excessive lag there. For the main meeting I'm planning to use one of the linode servers with dedicated CPUs based in Toronto. Alex. On 2020-03-26 6:01 p.m., Znoteer via talk wrote:
Hi (lurker in Montreal, here),
On Thu, Mar 26, 2020 at 04:06:26PM -0400, Christopher Browne via talk wrote:
On Thu, 26 Mar 2020 at 14:42, Rouben via talk <talk@gtalug.org> wrote:
Hi,
Long-time lurker here.
I’d be happy to provide virtual hosting for GTA LUG proceedings and meetings via Zoom or MS Teams. I work at UofT and I believe I can get GTA LUG meetings hosted on our infrastructure.
[snip] Our last board meeting we used the "libre" option, Jitsi, for which Alex has set up a VM. Alex seems to be proposing to spin up an instance of that. I suggest getting in on the conversation about that.
To my mind, having more possible solutions is better than having fewer, although we'll need to pick something specific pretty soon :-). [snip]
The local Debian group tried out BigBlueButton a couple of days ago. It's similar to jitsi and is also opensource. We were hitting an instance in Italy so there was some lag on the audio, though the video seemed to be pretty instantaneous.
On Thu, 26 Mar 2020 at 18:30, Alex Volkov via talk <talk@gtalug.org> wrote:
My only problem with zoom is that it requires to install proprietary client, which I might not work on every linux distro and not everyone might everyone will agree to use.
One can hold zoom meetings strictly by phone, no software required. Might not resonate with plans, but does add an option that avoids the client drawback. Kare On Thu, 26 Mar 2020, Alex Volkov via talk wrote:
Hey Znoteer, Do you have a rough estimate how much CPU bigbluebutton was using during the conference and for how many people?
So far I've been inclining to spin up a VM with 4-8 dedicated CPUs that should give some extra headroom for our average meeting size, and have Zoom as a backup. My only problem with zoom is that it requires to install proprietary client, which I might not work on every linux distro and not everyone might everyone will agree to use.
We were planning to have a Q&A session, we don't need video recording feature as we don't record Q&A as a matter of preference.
I also opened a pool on which video conferencing solution we should use for the next meeting -- https://mastodon.social/@gtalug/103886518041900393
I was convinced to try out Jitsi following this thread -- https://octodon.social/@cwebber/103811788098843117
I like Jitsi because: * Fully open-source * Doesn't require browser plugins * easy to set up with let's encrypt * I already wrote some ansible scripts that help me create working servers quickly
I don't like Jitsi: * iOS app is a bit confusing * I had some issues with video-bridge and nginx fighting over https port on the server
For our executive meeting of 5 people having video calls at the same time Jitsi was using 60% of CPU on the smallest instance, probably due to all of the encryption going on. We were using the smallest hetzner instance available 1vcpu/2GB ram in Finland and I don't think that we've had excessive lag there.
For the main meeting I'm planning to use one of the linode servers with dedicated CPUs based in Toronto.
Alex.
On 2020-03-26 6:01 p.m., Znoteer via talk wrote:
Hi (lurker in Montreal, here),
On Thu, Mar 26, 2020 at 04:06:26PM -0400, Christopher Browne via talk wrote:
On Thu, 26 Mar 2020 at 14:42, Rouben via talk <talk@gtalug.org> wrote:
Hi,
Long-time lurker here.
I’d be happy to provide virtual hosting for GTA LUG proceedings and meetings via Zoom or MS Teams. I work at UofT and I believe I can get GTA LUG meetings hosted on our infrastructure.
[snip] Our last board meeting we used the "libre" option, Jitsi, for which Alex has set up a VM. Alex seems to be proposing to spin up an instance of that. I suggest getting in on the conversation about that.
To my mind, having more possible solutions is better than having fewer, although we'll need to pick something specific pretty soon :-). [snip]
The local Debian group tried out BigBlueButton a couple of days ago. It's similar to jitsi and is also opensource. We were hitting an instance in Italy so there was some lag on the audio, though the video seemed to be pretty instantaneous.
--- Post to this mailing list talk@gtalug.org Unsubscribe from this mailing list https://gtalug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
On Thu, Mar 26, 2020 at 07:48:44PM -0400, Karen Lewellen via talk wrote:
One can hold zoom meetings strictly by phone, no software required. Might not resonate with plans, but does add an option that avoids the client drawback. Kare
Yes, I used this feature when I had problem with microphone. You can tell Zoom to call you, and it will use that for audio. -- William Park <opengeometry@yahoo.ca>
That sounds like a different feature. I personally call a local 647 number to join zoom events, its an option that meeting administrators can allow. No software or download required. Kare On Thu, 26 Mar 2020, William Park via talk wrote:
On Thu, Mar 26, 2020 at 07:48:44PM -0400, Karen Lewellen via talk wrote:
One can hold zoom meetings strictly by phone, no software required. Might not resonate with plans, but does add an option that avoids the client drawback. Kare
Yes, I used this feature when I had problem with microphone. You can tell Zoom to call you, and it will use that for audio. -- William Park <opengeometry@yahoo.ca> --- Post to this mailing list talk@gtalug.org Unsubscribe from this mailing list https://gtalug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
I may be able to connect a sip trunk to a jitsi server and make it work the same way zoom works. https://github.com/jitsi/jigasi Can anyone recommend a prepaid sip provider with a phone number in Toronto? Alex. On 2020-03-26 8:46 p.m., Karen Lewellen via talk wrote:
That sounds like a different feature. I personally call a local 647 number to join zoom events, its an option that meeting administrators can allow. No software or download required. Kare
On Thu, 26 Mar 2020, William Park via talk wrote:
On Thu, Mar 26, 2020 at 07:48:44PM -0400, Karen Lewellen via talk wrote:
One can hold zoom meetings strictly by phone, no software required. Might not resonate with plans, but does add an option that avoids the client drawback. Kare
Yes, I used this feature when I had problem with microphone. You can tell Zoom to call you, and it will use that for audio. -- William Park <opengeometry@yahoo.ca> --- Post to this mailing list talk@gtalug.org Unsubscribe from this mailing list https://gtalug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
--- Post to this mailing list talk@gtalug.org Unsubscribe from this mailing list https://gtalug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
On Fri, 27 Mar 2020 at 10:09, Alex Volkov via talk <talk@gtalug.org> wrote:
I may be able to connect a sip trunk to a jitsi server and make it work the same way zoom works.
https://github.com/jitsi/jigasi
Can anyone recommend a prepaid sip provider with a phone number in Toronto?
Alex.
Hi Alex, On Thu, Mar 26, 2020 at 06:28:42PM -0400, Alex Volkov wrote:
Hey Znoteer,
Do you have a rough estimate how much CPU bigbluebutton was using during the conference and for how many people?
Sorry, I don't. I asked on our IRC channel and no one else seems to have noticed either. What I can tell you is that on my core 2 duo laptop with 3G of RAM, with 3 total participants, the experience was acceptable, but as more people came on board (at most there were 7 of us) quality of the call dropped. I started to get audio dropping out. I could no longer hear for long periods and they could no longer hear me. Those on beefier machines than my measely laptop had no trouble, though. -- Znoteer znoteer@mailbox.org
On Thu, 26 Mar 2020 18:01:09 -0400 Znoteer via talk <talk@gtalug.org> wrote: <snip snip>
The local Debian group tried out BigBlueButton a couple of days ago. It's similar to jitsi and is also opensource. We were hitting an instance in Italy so there was some lag on the audio, though the video seemed to be pretty instantaneous.
Wow. Thank you so much for this Znoteer, I setup jitsi but this is cool, I think there will be a lot of dev on these projects in the next weeks Andre
How about a google hangout session? On Thu., Mar. 26, 2020, 2:23 p.m. Christopher Browne, <cbbrowne@gmail.com> wrote:
The ongoing COVID-19 problem has made it impossible to hold our monthly meetings at Ryerson.
Our meetings are held at Ryerson University; the University has declared [1] that, to help diminish the spread of the virus, they are eliminating all discretionary activities on (and off) campus until May 1, 2020. GTALUG certainly falls in the "discretionary activity" category, therefore we do not have availability of that space. It is, of course, entirely likely that the May 1 date will shift as the situation evolves.
Further, the Ontario Government has banned getting together in groups of 50 or more [2] (it would be no surprise for that to go down further), and in view of the risks of the virus, it would not be at all responsible for GTALUG to attempt to shift to other locations; that would not fit well with the "social and physical distancing" concept in use to try to diminish spread of the virus.
We are trying to see what we can do about alternative mechanisms, so that discussions may take place online. The mailing list remains active, of course; we hope to see more ideas emerge over the next couple of weeks.
[1] https://www.ryerson.ca/news-events/news/2020/03/president-mohamed-lachemi-an... [2] https://www.ontario.ca/page/2019-novel-coronavirus -- Chris Browne --- GTALUG Announce mailing list announce@gtalug.org https://gtalug.org/mailman/listinfo/announce
how about zoom? At least that way people can choose to call in or do video. Thing about google is the privacy sacrifice..among other factors. On Thu, 26 Mar 2020, sean mancini via talk wrote:
How about a google hangout session?
On Thu., Mar. 26, 2020, 2:23 p.m. Christopher Browne, <cbbrowne@gmail.com> wrote:
The ongoing COVID-19 problem has made it impossible to hold our monthly meetings at Ryerson.
Our meetings are held at Ryerson University; the University has declared [1] that, to help diminish the spread of the virus, they are eliminating all discretionary activities on (and off) campus until May 1, 2020. GTALUG certainly falls in the "discretionary activity" category, therefore we do not have availability of that space. It is, of course, entirely likely that the May 1 date will shift as the situation evolves.
Further, the Ontario Government has banned getting together in groups of 50 or more [2] (it would be no surprise for that to go down further), and in view of the risks of the virus, it would not be at all responsible for GTALUG to attempt to shift to other locations; that would not fit well with the "social and physical distancing" concept in use to try to diminish spread of the virus.
We are trying to see what we can do about alternative mechanisms, so that discussions may take place online. The mailing list remains active, of course; we hope to see more ideas emerge over the next couple of weeks.
[1] https://www.ryerson.ca/news-events/news/2020/03/president-mohamed-lachemi-an... [2] https://www.ontario.ca/page/2019-novel-coronavirus -- Chris Browne --- GTALUG Announce mailing list announce@gtalug.org https://gtalug.org/mailman/listinfo/announce
Another option is ; https://jitsi.org/ On Thu, Mar 26, 2020 at 9:57 PM James Knott via talk <talk@gtalug.org> wrote:
On 2020-03-26 03:10 PM, sean mancini via talk wrote:
How about a google hangout session?
How many participants? I believe Hangouts has a maximum of 10, unless you get some extra cost business package.
--- Post to this mailing list talk@gtalug.org Unsubscribe from this mailing list https://gtalug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
If you're considering using Zoom, you need to be aware of a growing problem with it--Zoombombing. Troublemakers break into a session and disrupt it with porn, obscene talk, and whatever else comes to their tiny, diseased minds. You'd have to be sure you have it all locked down. Here's a reference article in the New York Times. https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/20/style/zoombombing-zoom-trolling.html -- Glen Strom glenstrom@teksavvy.com
On Sun, Mar 29, 2020 at 10:50 PM Glen Strom via talk <talk@gtalug.org> wrote:
If you're considering using Zoom, you need to be aware of a growing problem with it--Zoombombing.
Troublemakers break into a session and disrupt it with porn, obscene talk, and whatever else comes to their tiny, diseased minds.
You'd have to be sure you have it all locked down.
Here's a reference article in the New York Times. https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/20/style/zoombombing-zoom-trolling.html
Reading the article requires a subscription. Oh well I can likely live without. Regards
On 3/30/20 6:48 AM, o1bigtenor via talk wrote:
On Sun, Mar 29, 2020 at 10:50 PM Glen Strom via talk <talk@gtalug.org> wrote:
If you're considering using Zoom, you need to be aware of a growing problem with it--Zoombombing.
Troublemakers break into a session and disrupt it with porn, obscene talk, and whatever else comes to their tiny, diseased minds.
You'd have to be sure you have it all locked down.
Here's a reference article in the New York Times. https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/20/style/zoombombing-zoom-trolling.html
Reading the article requires a subscription. Oh well I can likely live without.
You can read a limited number of articles per month. But Glen's description pretty well covers the article so your not missing much. here are some observations on my limited interaction with video conferencing. Webex: I have had lots of luck with Webex ... all bad. I got to the point where I would refuse to join a webex on anything other than a telephone. Google Hangouts: They worked reasonably well but of late I cannot get audio to work properly on any of my linux systems. My major client has moved to ring-central because of a 50 participant limit on Hangouts. Microsoft Teams Meeting: It seems to work reasonably well for small numbers. I have not been part of a large conference so I am not sure how well it scales. Since we are an open-source(ish) community I would suggest that we try and find an open-source solution. It may be worth picking a couple of possible solutions and then try running meetings with each one and rate the quality. -- Alvin Starr || land: (647)478-6285 Netvel Inc. || Cell: (416)806-0133 alvin@netvel.net ||
Really? granted my setup must be different, but I got no subscription request. Still, what I found surprising is that anyone would use zoom for public events, it is not designed for that purpose, then be surprised when moose-feathers crash. One sends invitations only, or locks the event to sharing from anyone who is not the host, that sort of thing. It is certainly not the fault of zoom as a platform that those using it do not read directions. Kare On Mon, 30 Mar 2020, o1bigtenor via talk wrote:
On Sun, Mar 29, 2020 at 10:50 PM Glen Strom via talk <talk@gtalug.org> wrote:
If you're considering using Zoom, you need to be aware of a growing problem with it--Zoombombing.
Troublemakers break into a session and disrupt it with porn, obscene talk, and whatever else comes to their tiny, diseased minds.
You'd have to be sure you have it all locked down.
Here's a reference article in the New York Times. https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/20/style/zoombombing-zoom-trolling.html
Reading the article requires a subscription. Oh well I can likely live without.
Regards --- Post to this mailing list talk@gtalug.org Unsubscribe from this mailing list https://gtalug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
I tried the free hangouts for a non profit today. We had about 15 participants. Hangouts has it's limitations, we could not see more than 5 participants. Raise hand feature not available. Background noise when many people talk at the same time.. Looking for a better solution. Gouri On Thu, Mar 26, 2020 at 9:57 PM James Knott via talk <talk@gtalug.org> wrote:
On 2020-03-26 03:10 PM, sean mancini via talk wrote:
How about a google hangout session?
How many participants? I believe Hangouts has a maximum of 10, unless you get some extra cost business package.
--- Post to this mailing list talk@gtalug.org Unsubscribe from this mailing list https://gtalug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
Jami.net Zoom can do 100 with a reasonable subscription On Sun., Mar. 29, 2020, 19:20 90ur1 90ur1 via talk, <talk@gtalug.org> wrote:
I tried the free hangouts for a non profit today. We had about 15 participants. Hangouts has it's limitations, we could not see more than 5 participants. Raise hand feature not available. Background noise when many people talk at the same time..
Looking for a better solution.
Gouri
On Thu, Mar 26, 2020 at 9:57 PM James Knott via talk <talk@gtalug.org> wrote:
On 2020-03-26 03:10 PM, sean mancini via talk wrote:
How about a google hangout session?
How many participants? I believe Hangouts has a maximum of 10, unless you get some extra cost business package.
--- Post to this mailing list talk@gtalug.org Unsubscribe from this mailing list https://gtalug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
--- Post to this mailing list talk@gtalug.org Unsubscribe from this mailing list https://gtalug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
On 3/29/20 7:33 PM, Marc Lijour via talk wrote:
Jami.net
Jami looks interesting and being distributed appeals to me. I wonder how well it works in the face of people using limited bandwidth connections with out traffic management.
Zoom can do 100 with a reasonable subscription
On Sun., Mar. 29, 2020, 19:20 90ur1 90ur1 via talk, <talk@gtalug.org <mailto:talk@gtalug.org>> wrote:
I tried the free hangouts for a non profit today. We had about 15 participants. Hangouts has it's limitations, we could not see more than 5 participants. Raise hand feature not available. Background noise when many people talk at the same time..
Looking for a better solution.
Gouri
On Thu, Mar 26, 2020 at 9:57 PM James Knott via talk <talk@gtalug.org <mailto:talk@gtalug.org>> wrote:
On 2020-03-26 03:10 PM, sean mancini via talk wrote: > How about a google hangout session?
How many participants? I believe Hangouts has a maximum of 10, unless you get some extra cost business package.
-- Alvin Starr || land: (647)478-6285 Netvel Inc. || Cell: (416)806-0133 alvin@netvel.net ||
Jami: a few years ago a third-party study compared Skype and Jami. Performance was comparable. One thing to keep in mind. Jami being distributed, the initiator of the call will mix on his computer for everyone else joining the call. On Mon., Mar. 30, 2020, 09:01 Alvin Starr via talk, <talk@gtalug.org> wrote:
On 3/29/20 7:33 PM, Marc Lijour via talk wrote:
Jami.net
Jami looks interesting and being distributed appeals to me.
I wonder how well it works in the face of people using limited bandwidth connections with out traffic management.
Zoom can do 100 with a reasonable subscription
On Sun., Mar. 29, 2020, 19:20 90ur1 90ur1 via talk, <talk@gtalug.org> wrote:
I tried the free hangouts for a non profit today. We had about 15 participants. Hangouts has it's limitations, we could not see more than 5 participants. Raise hand feature not available. Background noise when many people talk at the same time..
Looking for a better solution.
Gouri
On Thu, Mar 26, 2020 at 9:57 PM James Knott via talk <talk@gtalug.org> wrote:
On 2020-03-26 03:10 PM, sean mancini via talk wrote:
How about a google hangout session?
How many participants? I believe Hangouts has a maximum of 10, unless you get some extra cost business package.
-- Alvin Starr || land: (647)478-6285 Netvel Inc. || Cell: (416)806-0133alvin@netvel.net ||
--- Post to this mailing list talk@gtalug.org Unsubscribe from this mailing list https://gtalug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
Hmm. If the call initiator mixes all the data for all the participants its not really distributed. Its just a hosted service with floating hosts. It would be a real problem if you wanted to initiate a large meeting while having a bad internet connection. On 3/30/20 12:21 PM, Marc Lijour wrote:
Jami: a few years ago a third-party study compared Skype and Jami. Performance was comparable.
One thing to keep in mind. Jami being distributed, the initiator of the call will mix on his computer for everyone else joining the call.
On Mon., Mar. 30, 2020, 09:01 Alvin Starr via talk, <talk@gtalug.org <mailto:talk@gtalug.org>> wrote:
On 3/29/20 7:33 PM, Marc Lijour via talk wrote:
Jami.net
Jami looks interesting and being distributed appeals to me.
I wonder how well it works in the face of people using limited bandwidth connections with out traffic management.
Zoom can do 100 with a reasonable subscription
On Sun., Mar. 29, 2020, 19:20 90ur1 90ur1 via talk, <talk@gtalug.org <mailto:talk@gtalug.org>> wrote:
I tried the free hangouts for a non profit today. We had about 15 participants. Hangouts has it's limitations, we could not see more than 5 participants. Raise hand feature not available. Background noise when many people talk at the same time..
Looking for a better solution.
Gouri
On Thu, Mar 26, 2020 at 9:57 PM James Knott via talk <talk@gtalug.org <mailto:talk@gtalug.org>> wrote:
On 2020-03-26 03:10 PM, sean mancini via talk wrote: > How about a google hangout session?
How many participants? I believe Hangouts has a maximum of 10, unless you get some extra cost business package.
-- Alvin Starr || land: (647)478-6285 Netvel Inc. || Cell: (416)806-0133 alvin@netvel.net <mailto:alvin@netvel.net> ||
--- Post to this mailing list talk@gtalug.org <mailto:talk@gtalug.org> Unsubscribe from this mailing list https://gtalug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
-- Alvin Starr || land: (647)478-6285 Netvel Inc. || Cell: (416)806-0133 alvin@netvel.net ||
On Mon, Mar 30, 2020 at 03:11:29PM -0400, Alvin Starr via talk wrote:
Hmm. If the call initiator mixes all the data for all the participants its not really distributed. Its just a hosted service with floating hosts. It would be a real problem if you wanted to initiate a large meeting while having a bad internet connection.
jami certainly claims to be peer-to-peer and even claims to have less latency because everyone sends directly to everyone else. So I would think that implies any mixing happens on the clients. -- Len Sorensen
Lennart Sorensen via talk wrote:
On Mon, Mar 30, 2020 at 03:11:29PM -0400, Alvin Starr via talk wrote:
If the call initiator mixes all the data for all the participants its not really distributed. ...
jami certainly claims to be peer-to-peer and even claims to have less latency because everyone sends directly to everyone else.
Might be interesting to do some traffic analysis and find out what it actually does. Most folk are behind a NAT device of some description or other, purporting to only allow outbound connections. But it turns out that if at least one end is behind a really cheap NAT device, it's possible to trick it into thinking an inbound connection is outbound and get a session going. See Wikipedia on NAT Traversal and Hole Punching. Linux and BSD NAT implementations are too smart to fall for this, though, and denizens of this list might just have a leaning toward Linux devices. There's a chance it would fall back to going via a public server if it can't open traversal between a pair of endpoints. -- Anthony de Boer
On Mon, Mar 30, 2020 at 08:19:01PM -0400, Anthony de Boer via talk wrote:
Might be interesting to do some traffic analysis and find out what it actually does.
Most folk are behind a NAT device of some description or other, purporting to only allow outbound connections. But it turns out that if at least one end is behind a really cheap NAT device, it's possible to trick it into thinking an inbound connection is outbound and get a session going. See Wikipedia on NAT Traversal and Hole Punching. Linux and BSD NAT implementations are too smart to fall for this, though, and denizens of this list might just have a leaning toward Linux devices.
There's a chance it would fall back to going via a public server if it can't open traversal between a pair of endpoints.
They document it here: https://jami.net/establishing-peer-to-peer-connections-with-jami/ Seems if possible they do direct, using upnp to request a port if needed and possible, otherwise they use TURN relay servers. -- Len Sorensen
participants (19)
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90ur1 90ur1 -
ac -
Alex Volkov -
Alvin Starr -
Anthony de Boer -
Christopher Browne -
Digiital aka David -
Glen Strom -
James Knott -
Karen Lewellen -
lsorense＠csclub.uwaterloo.ca -
Marc Lijour -
o1bigtenor -
Rouben -
Scott Allen -
sean mancini -
Val Kulkov -
William Park -
Znoteer