I finally ported my old home phone to VoIP.ms, and installed their softphone on my cell phone. FYI, - VoIP.ms does business in US$. - They bill in 6-second increment (0.1min), so 30sec call is 0.5min. Now, I tried 2 other softphones on Linux: - ZoiPer Communicator -- binary - Linphone -- appimage They are okay I haven't used them heavily to give a meaning feedback, though. Have you used other Softphone on Linux (or Windows), that you liked? --
I used linphone on my Fedora systems but a while ago a library update issue broke it for me so I have since been using twinkle. I have used twinkle a hand full of times and can't really comment on anything but its basic features. Another thing to note about VoIP.ms and I have been told this applies to other VOIP providers. Places like banks and credit card companies will not send 2FA SMS messages to VOIP services. On 2025-10-16 00:07, William Park via Talk wrote:
I finally ported my old home phone to VoIP.ms, and installed their softphone on my cell phone. FYI, - VoIP.ms does business in US$. - They bill in 6-second increment (0.1min), so 30sec call is 0.5min.
Now, I tried 2 other softphones on Linux: - ZoiPer Communicator -- binary - Linphone -- appimage They are okay I haven't used them heavily to give a meaning feedback, though.
Have you used other Softphone on Linux (or Windows), that you liked? --
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-- Alvin Starr || land: (647)478-6285 Netvel Inc. || home: (905)513-7688 alvin@netvel.net ||
From: William Park via Talk <talk@lists.gtalug.org> To: KWLUG Discuss <kwlug-disc@kwlug.org>, GTALUG Talk <talk@lists.gtalug.org>
It is best not to send one message to two mailing lists. Anyone who replies, and is only on one of the lists, will get a rejection from the other list.
I finally ported my old home phone to VoIP.ms, and installed their softphone on my cell phone. FYI,
Do any of these VOIP providers (ITSPs) offer secure connections? Do the softphones support these protocols? One obvious protocol is SRTP but if I remember correctly, its key handling was not useful. These days, HTTPS functions as a secure transport protocol that firewalls let through. Unfortunately, it does not normally authenticate the client side. It could do so seamlessly by requiring client certificates, but that's an obscure feature that almost nobody knows how to configure (including me).
On 2025-10-16 10:05, James Knott via Talk wrote:
On 10/16/25 09:39, D. Hugh Redelmeier via Talk wrote:
These days, HTTPS functions as a secure transport protocol that firewalls let through.
Wouldn't that be TCP only? RTP is UDP and you don't want to use TCP for phone calls.
RTP is real-time and TCP would not be good in that case but the call setup and management are not so real-time and can use TCP. You would likely want to protect your call meta-data and not just the voice component. -- Alvin Starr || land: (647)478-6285 Netvel Inc. || home: (905)513-7688 alvin@netvel.net ||
On 2025-10-16 09:39, D. Hugh Redelmeier via Talk wrote:
I finally ported my old home phone to VoIP.ms, and installed their softphone on my cell phone. FYI,
Do any of these VOIP providers (ITSPs) offer secure connections? Do the softphones support these protocols?
I cannot comment on all the VOIP providers but VoIP.ms does provide call encryption. I have had mixed luck with the clients/devices. Older ATAs and SIP handsets sometimes to not support encryption. The soft phones that I have used seem to all support encryption now.
One obvious protocol is SRTP but if I remember correctly, its key handling was not useful.
These days, HTTPS functions as a secure transport protocol that firewalls let through. Unfortunately, it does not normally authenticate the client side. It could do so seamlessly by requiring client certificates, but that's an obscure feature that almost nobody knows how to configure (including me)
Out of the box VOIP does not come secure but I am not sure how many of the existing carrier based services are secure either. The old POTS system can be bypassed with embarrassingly trivial hardware. The various mobile networks are also subject to snooping but with a bigger investment in fancy hardware. The digital Home-Phone services may or may not run securely but I would not put much faith in Rogers or Bell for making sure their services are secure. If you want end to end security then you do not want to use any incarnation of the telephone system. -- Alvin Starr || land: (647)478-6285 Netvel Inc. || home: (905)513-7688 alvin@netvel.net ||
On 2025-10-16 10:22, James Knott via Talk wrote:
On 10/16/25 10:09, Alvin Starr via Talk wrote:
The various mobile networks are also subject to snooping but with a bigger investment in fancy hardware.
4G & 5G are encrypted with IPSec.
There are devices called "StingRay" that can hack into cell networks. I have not spent a lot of time tracking these things other than various news articles that show up. So I cannot guarantee that the 4/5G networks are hack-able but I am not sure that anybody can guarantee that they are not. -- Alvin Starr || land: (647)478-6285 Netvel Inc. || home: (905)513-7688 alvin@netvel.net ||
On Thu, Oct 16, 2025 at 11:12 Alvin Starr via Talk <talk@lists.gtalug.org> wrote:
On 2025-10-16 10:22, James Knott via Talk wrote:
On 10/16/25 10:09, Alvin Starr via Talk wrote:
The various mobile networks are also subject to snooping but with a bigger investment in fancy hardware.
4G & 5G are encrypted with IPSec.
There are devices called "StingRay" that can hack into cell networks. I have not spent a lot of time tracking these things other than various news articles that show up.
So I cannot guarantee that the 4/5G networks are hack-able but I am not sure that anybody can guarantee that they are not.
-- Alvin Starr || land: (647)478-6285 Netvel Inc. || home: (905)513-7688alvin@netvel.net ||
------------------------------------
voip.ma use SIP TLS for encrypted calls https://wiki.voip.ms/article/Linphone
Stingrays don't hack into networks. They are rogue base stations that masquerade as your network operator's base stations and your phone connects to them. The operator of the stingray can then do things like collect metadata, perform protocol downgrade (modern phones display a prominent alert when that happens), etc.
On Oct 16, 2025, at 11:31, Nick Accad via Talk <talk@lists.gtalug.org> wrote:
On Thu, Oct 16, 2025 at 11:12 Alvin Starr via Talk <talk@lists.gtalug.org <mailto:talk@lists.gtalug.org>> wrote:
On 2025-10-16 10:22, James Knott via Talk wrote:
On 10/16/25 10:09, Alvin Starr via Talk wrote:
The various mobile networks are also subject to snooping but with a bigger investment in fancy hardware. 4G & 5G are encrypted with IPSec. There are devices called "StingRay" that can hack into cell networks. I have not spent a lot of time tracking these things other than various news articles that show up.
So I cannot guarantee that the 4/5G networks are hack-able but I am not sure that anybody can guarantee that they are not. -- Alvin Starr || land: (647)478-6285 Netvel Inc. || home: (905)513-7688 alvin@netvel.net <mailto:alvin@netvel.net> ||
------------------------------------
voip.ma <http://voip.ma/> use SIP TLS for encrypted calls
https://wiki.voip.ms/article/Linphone
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On 10/16/25 11:11, Alvin Starr via Talk wrote:
There are devices called "StingRay" that can hack into cell networks. I have not spent a lot of time tracking these things other than various news articles that show up.
So I cannot guarantee that the 4/5G networks are hack-able but I am not sure that anybody can guarantee that they are not.
I don't think StingRay can do anything with IPSec.
From: James Knott via Talk <talk@lists.gtalug.org>
I don't think StingRay can do anything with IPSec.
IPSec is only secure if it is end-to-end. Clearly SOME part of calling isn't end-to-end. IPSec is only secure from man-in-the-middle attacks if you have some robust authentication of the endpoints. Setting up a reliable distribution system for authenticators isn't easy.
On 10/16/25 14:51, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote:
IPSec is only secure if it is end-to-end. Clearly SOME part of calling isn't end-to-end.
IPSec is secure end to end and the end points are the phones. There is no point along the way where it isn't. The exception being a phone that does not support IPSec needs to have it done elsewhere. But yeah, cell phone calls are secure at least as far as the carrier's network.
On 2025-10-16 09:39, D. Hugh Redelmeier via Talk wrote:
I finally ported my old home phone to VoIP.ms, and installed their softphone on my cell phone. FYI, Do any of these VOIP providers (ITSPs) offer secure connections? Do the softphones support these protocols?
I read VoIP.ms can do "encryption". I have seen "TLS" in their portal settings, and softphone settings. I just choose UDP. I'm less concerned about voice encryption, ie. the content of my phone call. I'm more concerned about access to my account. All you need is user/pass/server to use voip account. I'm worried that all these "free" softphones are just front to collect my account info. At least, VoIP.ms softphone is from the same company as VoIP account. So, they already have my account info.
participants (6)
-
Alex Kink -
Alvin Starr -
D. Hugh Redelmeier -
James Knott -
Nick Accad -
William Park