(very off topic) torque spec of impact wrench

Hi (another very off topic), Wheel bolts on my VW are seized pretty hard. Standing on 24in breaker bar doesn't help, and that's 300ft-lb torque. So, I'm thinking about getting an impact wrench. Those with greater than 300ft-lb are very expensive. I found one with 250ft-lb spec at my price range. Question is, is there difference between static torque vs impact torque? In other words, will 250ft-lb impact wrench loosen 300ft-lb bolt? Browsing YouTube, I learned that torque specs are always misleading and inflated. This means, I have to find 600ft-lb or greater, and that's serious money.

Probably obvious question: Have you applied a good penetrating oil (like Liquid Wrench)? That has saved my behind with rusted bolts on more than one occasion. On Fri, Nov 3, 2023 at 3:08 AM William Park via talk <talk@gtalug.org> wrote:
Hi (another very off topic),
Wheel bolts on my VW are seized pretty hard. Standing on 24in breaker bar doesn't help, and that's 300ft-lb torque. So, I'm thinking about getting an impact wrench. Those with greater than 300ft-lb are very expensive. I found one with 250ft-lb spec at my price range.
Question is, is there difference between static torque vs impact torque? In other words, will 250ft-lb impact wrench loosen 300ft-lb bolt?
Browsing YouTube, I learned that torque specs are always misleading and inflated. This means, I have to find 600ft-lb or greater, and that's serious money. --- Post to this mailing list talk@gtalug.org Unsubscribe from this mailing list https://gtalug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
-- Evan Leibovitch, Toronto Canada @evanleibovitch / @el56

I would second Evans suggestion before running out and buying an impact wrench. If you can afford to give it a day or so to penetrate that would help. A trick my father use to use was to slide a metal pipe over the breaker bar to extend the length and hence the force. I have a small ryobi battery powered impact tool that is useful but it absolutely not do what your looking for but it is an amazingly handy tool so there is value in impact tools. On 2023-11-03 03:21, Evan Leibovitch via talk wrote:
Probably obvious question: Have you applied a good penetrating oil (like Liquid Wrench)? That has saved my behind with rusted bolts on more than one occasion.
On Fri, Nov 3, 2023 at 3:08 AM William Park via talk <talk@gtalug.org> wrote:
Hi (another very off topic),
Wheel bolts on my VW are seized pretty hard. Standing on 24in breaker bar doesn't help, and that's 300ft-lb torque. So, I'm thinking about getting an impact wrench. Those with greater than 300ft-lb are very expensive. I found one with 250ft-lb spec at my price range.
Question is, is there difference between static torque vs impact torque? In other words, will 250ft-lb impact wrench loosen 300ft-lb bolt?
Browsing YouTube, I learned that torque specs are always misleading and inflated. This means, I have to find 600ft-lb or greater, and that's serious money. --- Post to this mailing list talk@gtalug.org Unsubscribe from this mailing list https://gtalug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
-- Evan Leibovitch, Toronto Canada @evanleibovitch / @el56
--- Post to this mailing listtalk@gtalug.org Unsubscribe from this mailing listhttps://gtalug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
-- Alvin Starr || land: (647)478-6285 Netvel Inc. || Cell: (416)806-0133 alvin@netvel.net ||

William Park via talk wrote on 2023-11-03 00:07:
Question is, is there difference between static torque vs impact torque?
I think the impacting has an effect, else the tools wouldn't have it (it requires clutches and other extras that must be there for a reason).
In other words, will 250ft-lb impact wrench loosen 300ft-lb bolt?
I'm thinking a resounding yes. I've got one of these:
https://www.canadiantire.ca/en/pdp/maximum-8-5a-nut-busting-corded-single-sp... My only gripe is that it is single-speed, not variable speed. But it's handled anything I've thrown at it. Lists for $150, often on sale for $99. Might want an impact rated socket to match the lug nut size. Also, like Evan said, penetrating oil (can use ATF fluid instead). Also, application of heat to lug nuts can expand them enough to help - got a torch? Good luck. Ron

On Fri, Nov 3, 2023 at 2:07 AM William Park via talk <talk@gtalug.org> wrote:
Hi (another very off topic),
Wheel bolts on my VW are seized pretty hard. Standing on 24in breaker bar doesn't help, and that's 300ft-lb torque. So, I'm thinking about getting an impact wrench. Those with greater than 300ft-lb are very expensive. I found one with 250ft-lb spec at my price range.
Question is, is there difference between static torque vs impact torque? In other words, will 250ft-lb impact wrench loosen 300ft-lb bolt?
Browsing YouTube, I learned that torque specs are always misleading and inflated. This means, I have to find 600ft-lb or greater, and that's serious money. ---
An easier and far cheaper option - - - - find yourself a 2' long chunk of pipe or tubing that fits over the breaker bar. (Need to overlap at least a couple if not 3 inches.) Place bar combination so it is slightly above horizontal. STOMP on the end of the sucker (your heel is better than at the instep especially in softer shoes - - - unless you're wearing decent 'work' boots). Its the impact that does the trick - - - far more than the weight. If you're thinking this might be problematic then put the combination (of bar and pipe) so the motion is upwards and lift up - - - using your legs!!!! (I've bent pipes and bars doing this but most definitely NOT on something as small as a VW. If you want a word for the pipe (extender) I was taught to call it a snipe. Have used such to exert as much as 2500 ft#s - - - that was using some more than a short snipe though!) HTH

Yes: the acceleration rate of a torque wrench is almost zero, while that of an air wrench is substantial, and it's applied the same way a hammer-drill is, in bursts until the nut starts to turn. In a previous life as a motorcycle- and occasionally car-mechanic, the order was * start with a long wrench, * add penetrating oil overnight and repeat, * curse loudly and add heating nuts with a torch and cooling with water. * Failing that, buy some new nuts and cut the old ones off with the cutting torch and a cold-chisel. We never got to air wrenches. --dave On 11/3/23 03:07, William Park via talk wrote:
Hi (another very off topic),
Wheel bolts on my VW are seized pretty hard. Standing on 24in breaker bar doesn't help, and that's 300ft-lb torque. So, I'm thinking about getting an impact wrench. Those with greater than 300ft-lb are very expensive. I found one with 250ft-lb spec at my price range.
Question is, is there difference between static torque vs impact torque? In other words, will 250ft-lb impact wrench loosen 300ft-lb bolt?
Browsing YouTube, I learned that torque specs are always misleading and inflated. This means, I have to find 600ft-lb or greater, and that's serious money. --- Post to this mailing list talk@gtalug.org Unsubscribe from this mailing list https://gtalug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk

On 2023-11-03 07:03, David Collier-Brown via talk wrote:
Yes: the acceleration rate of a torque wrench is almost zero, while that of an air wrench is substantial, and it's applied the same way a hammer-drill is, in bursts until the nut starts to turn.
In a previous life as a motorcycle- and occasionally car-mechanic, the order was
* start with a long wrench, * add penetrating oil overnight and repeat, * curse loudly and add heating nuts with a torch and cooling with water. * Failing that, buy some new nuts and cut the old ones off with the cutting torch and a cold-chisel.
Before you get to the cutting torch you could try a nut cracker/burster/splitter. https://www.amazon.ca/OURANTOOLS-Splitter-Separator-Removing-Damaged/dp/B095VXSP9S/ref=sxin_15_sbv_search_btf?content-id=amzn1.sym.c49f1e2d-cd8c-49f3-bcdf-e906d6356864%3Aamzn1.sym.c49f1e2d-cd8c-49f3-bcdf-e906d6356864&cv_ct_cx=Metal%2BNut%2BSplitter&keywords=Metal%2BNut%2BSplitter&pd_rd_i=B095VXSP9S&sbo=RZvfv%2F%2FHxDF%2BO5021pAnSA%3D%3D&sr=1-1-5190daf0-67e3-427c-bea6-c72c1df98776&th=1 I have used them in the past on stripped nuts. -- Alvin Starr || land: (647)478-6285 Netvel Inc. || Cell: (416)806-0133 alvin@netvel.net ||

William: Have you tried dousing the crevice at the nut / threaded stud interface, with penetrating oil ?? E.g. brand name "liquid wrench". Repeat application a few times and allow a couple of hours for the penetrating oil to seep into the crevice. HTH. Steve Petrie -------- Original Message -------- SUBJECT: [GTALUG] (very off topic) torque spec of impact wrench DATE: 2023-11-03 03:07 FROM: William Park via talk <talk@gtalug.org> TO: GTALUG Talk <talk@gtalug.org> Hi (another very off topic), Wheel bolts on my VW are seized pretty hard. Standing on 24in breaker bar doesn't help, and that's 300ft-lb torque. So, I'm thinking about getting an impact wrench. Those with greater than 300ft-lb are very expensive. I found one with 250ft-lb spec at my price range. Question is, is there difference between static torque vs impact torque? In other words, will 250ft-lb impact wrench loosen 300ft-lb bolt? Browsing YouTube, I learned that torque specs are always misleading and inflated. This means, I have to find 600ft-lb or greater, and that's serious money. --- Post to this mailing list talk@gtalug.org Unsubscribe from this mailing list https://gtalug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk

William, Mechanical designer here. I specify screw torques. Torque is a convenient but not very accurate way to control screw tension. Most of your torque is friction, rather than screw tension. You can try whacking the end of your wrench with a hammer. Maybe this is a good time to see a mechanic. This is what they do for a living. On Fri, 3 Nov 2023 03:07:29 -0400 William Park via talk <talk@gtalug.org> wrote:
Hi (another very off topic),
Wheel bolts on my VW are seized pretty hard. Standing on 24in breaker bar doesn't help, and that's 300ft-lb torque. So, I'm thinking about getting an impact wrench. Those with greater than 300ft-lb are very expensive. I found one with 250ft-lb spec at my price range.
Question is, is there difference between static torque vs impact torque? In other words, will 250ft-lb impact wrench loosen 300ft-lb bolt?
Browsing YouTube, I learned that torque specs are always misleading and inflated. This means, I have to find 600ft-lb or greater, and that's serious money. --- Post to this mailing list talk@gtalug.org Unsubscribe from this mailing list https://gtalug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
-- Howard Gibson hgibson@eol.ca http://home.eol.ca/~hgibson

Can you drive your car to a mechanic? It might be cheaper to have them loosen it with their air powered impact wrench. Other options I've used 1. penetrating oil (as mentioned) 2. breaker bar (long pipe) 3. propane torch (also mentioned) Once loosened then add some anti-seize compound so that this does not happen again in the future. On Fri, 3 Nov 2023 at 03:07, William Park via talk <talk@gtalug.org> wrote:
Hi (another very off topic),
Wheel bolts on my VW are seized pretty hard. Standing on 24in breaker bar doesn't help, and that's 300ft-lb torque. So, I'm thinking about getting an impact wrench. Those with greater than 300ft-lb are very expensive. I found one with 250ft-lb spec at my price range.
Question is, is there difference between static torque vs impact torque? In other words, will 250ft-lb impact wrench loosen 300ft-lb bolt?
Browsing YouTube, I learned that torque specs are always misleading and inflated. This means, I have to find 600ft-lb or greater, and that's serious money. --- Post to this mailing list talk@gtalug.org Unsubscribe from this mailing list https://gtalug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk

This is what happened after getting 4 new brakes and 2 new calipers at the dealership. They over-tightened it! - I tried 12in pipe (it's all I have). It slips, and I don't want to step on that. Maybe longer pipe will work. - I've been told (by YouTube, Google) that you shouldn't apply any oil or anti-seize grease. - VW uses 17mm bolt, instead of lug nut. So, cutting them off is not an option. :-) 1. I'll try to find 2-4ft pipe at reasonable price. 2. If not, Canadian Tire has sale on "air wrench" - https://www.canadiantire.ca/en/pdp/maximum-impact-wrench-with-built-in-regul... Web says "3/8", manual says "1/2", and I'll see what the box says. Thanks guys. I wish I paid more attention to "shop class" in high school. "If I knew then, what I know now...". On 2023-11-03 09:32, Don Tai wrote:
Can you drive your car to a mechanic? It might be cheaper to have them loosen it with their air powered impact wrench. Other options I've used 1. penetrating oil (as mentioned) 2. breaker bar (long pipe) 3. propane torch (also mentioned)
Once loosened then add some anti-seize compound so that this does not happen again in the future.
On Fri, 3 Nov 2023 at 03:07, William Park via talk <talk@gtalug.org <mailto:talk@gtalug.org>> wrote:
Hi (another very off topic),
Wheel bolts on my VW are seized pretty hard. Standing on 24in breaker bar doesn't help, and that's 300ft-lb torque. So, I'm thinking about getting an impact wrench. Those with greater than 300ft-lb are very expensive. I found one with 250ft-lb spec at my price range.
Question is, is there difference between static torque vs impact torque? In other words, will 250ft-lb impact wrench loosen 300ft-lb bolt?
Browsing YouTube, I learned that torque specs are always misleading and inflated. This means, I have to find 600ft-lb or greater, and that's serious money. --- Post to this mailing list talk@gtalug.org <mailto:talk@gtalug.org> Unsubscribe from this mailing list https://gtalug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk <https://gtalug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk>

On Fri, Nov 3, 2023 at 10:03 AM William Park via talk <talk@gtalug.org> wrote:
This is what happened after getting 4 new brakes and 2 new calipers at the dealership. They over-tightened it!
This would get me to take it back to said dealer with the instructions to 'fix it' . If they refuse there would be some repercussions! I would escalate the problem through VW channels if necessary.
- I tried 12in pipe (it's all I have). It slips, and I don't want to step on that. Maybe longer pipe will work.
I was afraid you would not have something a couple feet long - - argh!!!! Have some specific tools (read pipes/bits of tubing) that are stored as tools for just this kind of use. This kind of probelm should be the responsibility of the idiot outfit that created the problem not yours. A good 1/2" air impact fed using a 5/16" id hose that not more than 15' from the compressor should develop in the range of 450 to 500 + ft#s of removal torque. There are models (or at least used to be) that would develop up to 650 ftlbs. (then the 3/4" was good for circa 800 ft lbs and the 1" (good one) for up to 100 ftlbs. That's for big truck and heavy equipment stuff - - - even then sometimes a good snip with a 12# hammer would crack something that the impact couldn't - - but those are some extreme measures!) You could use a 6 or 8# hammer on your bar - - - warning bars can be bent. HTH

OH! Go back to the dealership with your wheel wrench, and tell them they overtightened your wheels, so you can't fix a flat when you have one. Get them to break the nuts loose, and you tighten them. And if they say no, take their names and complain to their manager. --dave On 11/3/23 11:02, William Park via talk wrote: This is what happened after getting 4 new brakes and 2 new calipers at the dealership. They over-tightened it! - I tried 12in pipe (it's all I have). It slips, and I don't want to step on that. Maybe longer pipe will work. - I've been told (by YouTube, Google) that you shouldn't apply any oil or anti-seize grease. - VW uses 17mm bolt, instead of lug nut. So, cutting them off is not an option. :-) 1. I'll try to find 2-4ft pipe at reasonable price. 2. If not, Canadian Tire has sale on "air wrench" - https://www.canadiantire.ca/en/pdp/maximum-impact-wrench-with-built-in-regul... Web says "3/8", manual says "1/2", and I'll see what the box says. Thanks guys. I wish I paid more attention to "shop class" in high school. "If I knew then, what I know now...". On 2023-11-03 09:32, Don Tai wrote: Can you drive your car to a mechanic? It might be cheaper to have them loosen it with their air powered impact wrench. Other options I've used 1. penetrating oil (as mentioned) 2. breaker bar (long pipe) 3. propane torch (also mentioned) Once loosened then add some anti-seize compound so that this does not happen again in the future. On Fri, 3 Nov 2023 at 03:07, William Park via talk <talk@gtalug.org<mailto:talk@gtalug.org> <mailto:talk@gtalug.org><mailto:talk@gtalug.org>> wrote: Hi (another very off topic), Wheel bolts on my VW are seized pretty hard. Standing on 24in breaker bar doesn't help, and that's 300ft-lb torque. So, I'm thinking about getting an impact wrench. Those with greater than 300ft-lb are very expensive. I found one with 250ft-lb spec at my price range. Question is, is there difference between static torque vs impact torque? In other words, will 250ft-lb impact wrench loosen 300ft-lb bolt? Browsing YouTube, I learned that torque specs are always misleading and inflated. This means, I have to find 600ft-lb or greater, and that's serious money. --- Post to this mailing list talk@gtalug.org<mailto:talk@gtalug.org> <mailto:talk@gtalug.org><mailto:talk@gtalug.org> Unsubscribe from this mailing list https://gtalug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk <https://gtalug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk><https://gtalug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk> --- Post to this mailing list talk@gtalug.org<mailto:talk@gtalug.org> Unsubscribe from this mailing list https://gtalug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk -- David Collier-Brown, | Always do right. This will gratify System Programmer and Author | some people and astonish the rest dave.collier-brown@indexexchange.com<mailto:dave.collier-brown@indexexchange.com> | -- Mark Twain CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE AND DISCLAIMER : This telecommunication, including any and all attachments, contains confidential information intended only for the person(s) to whom it is addressed. Any dissemination, distribution, copying or disclosure is strictly prohibited and is not a waiver of confidentiality. If you have received this telecommunication in error, please notify the sender immediately by return electronic mail and delete the message from your inbox and deleted items folders. This telecommunication does not constitute an express or implied agreement to conduct transactions by electronic means, nor does it constitute a contract offer, a contract amendment or an acceptance of a contract offer. Contract terms contained in this telecommunication are subject to legal review and the completion of formal documentation and are not binding until same is confirmed in writing and has been signed by an authorized signatory.

After a winter my front tire lug nuts would not budge. My mechanic used his air ratchet to break them free, then told me to use just a little antiseize on the threads. I haven't had any issues with winter corrosion after that, For every Youtube video stating don't use antiseize there are others that recommend it. On Fri, 3 Nov 2023 at 11:03, William Park <opengeometry@yahoo.ca> wrote:
This is what happened after getting 4 new brakes and 2 new calipers at the dealership. They over-tightened it!
- I tried 12in pipe (it's all I have). It slips, and I don't want to step on that. Maybe longer pipe will work.
- I've been told (by YouTube, Google) that you shouldn't apply any oil or anti-seize grease.
- VW uses 17mm bolt, instead of lug nut. So, cutting them off is not an option. :-)
1. I'll try to find 2-4ft pipe at reasonable price.
2. If not, Canadian Tire has sale on "air wrench" -
https://www.canadiantire.ca/en/pdp/maximum-impact-wrench-with-built-in-regul... Web says "3/8", manual says "1/2", and I'll see what the box says.
Thanks guys. I wish I paid more attention to "shop class" in high school. "If I knew then, what I know now...".
On 2023-11-03 09:32, Don Tai wrote:
Can you drive your car to a mechanic? It might be cheaper to have them loosen it with their air powered impact wrench. Other options I've used 1. penetrating oil (as mentioned) 2. breaker bar (long pipe) 3. propane torch (also mentioned)
Once loosened then add some anti-seize compound so that this does not happen again in the future.
On Fri, 3 Nov 2023 at 03:07, William Park via talk <talk@gtalug.org <mailto:talk@gtalug.org>> wrote:
Hi (another very off topic),
Wheel bolts on my VW are seized pretty hard. Standing on 24in breaker bar doesn't help, and that's 300ft-lb torque. So, I'm thinking about getting an impact wrench. Those with greater than 300ft-lb are very expensive. I found one with 250ft-lb spec at my price range.
Question is, is there difference between static torque vs impact torque? In other words, will 250ft-lb impact wrench loosen 300ft-lb bolt?
Browsing YouTube, I learned that torque specs are always misleading and inflated. This means, I have to find 600ft-lb or greater, and that's serious money. --- Post to this mailing list talk@gtalug.org <mailto:talk@gtalug.org> Unsubscribe from this mailing list https://gtalug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk <https://gtalug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk>

On 2023-11-03 14:18, Don Tai via talk wrote:
After a winter my front tire lug nuts would not budge. My mechanic used his air ratchet to break them free, then told me to use just a little antiseize on the threads. I haven't had any issues with winter corrosion after that, For every Youtube video stating don't use antiseize there are others that recommend it.
Many years ago, I actually broke a stud on my mother's car, when trying to remove the nut.

On Fri, 3 Nov 2023 at 09:32, Don Tai via talk <talk@gtalug.org> wrote:
Once loosened then add some anti-seize compound so that this does not happen again in the future.
Anti-seize compound will reduce the friction between the threads, so if you use the recommended torque for the nuts you will end up over torquing them. It's difficult to know what the proper torque value to use if anti-seize compound or other corrosion inhibitors are used. -- Scott

Solved! I bought $56 "Litheli" cordless impact wrench from Walmart. It's slightly lower torque than what's sold at Amazon, but can't complaint about the price, though. I think, it was caused by surface rust between the bolt and wheel rim, and not on the threads. So, impact helped to loosen it. On 2023-11-03 03:07, William Park via talk wrote:
Hi (another very off topic),
Wheel bolts on my VW are seized pretty hard. Standing on 24in breaker bar doesn't help, and that's 300ft-lb torque. So, I'm thinking about getting an impact wrench. Those with greater than 300ft-lb are very expensive. I found one with 250ft-lb spec at my price range.
Question is, is there difference between static torque vs impact torque? In other words, will 250ft-lb impact wrench loosen 300ft-lb bolt?
Browsing YouTube, I learned that torque specs are always misleading and inflated. This means, I have to find 600ft-lb or greater, and that's serious money. --- Post to this mailing list talk@gtalug.org Unsubscribe from this mailing list https://gtalug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk

Congrats! On Wed, Nov 15, 2023 at 12:16 AM William Park via talk <talk@gtalug.org> wrote:
Solved! I bought $56 "Litheli" cordless impact wrench from Walmart. It's slightly lower torque than what's sold at Amazon, but can't complaint about the price, though. I think, it was caused by surface rust between the bolt and wheel rim, and not on the threads. So, impact helped to loosen it.
On 2023-11-03 03:07, William Park via talk wrote:
Hi (another very off topic),
Wheel bolts on my VW are seized pretty hard. Standing on 24in breaker bar doesn't help, and that's 300ft-lb torque. So, I'm thinking about getting an impact wrench. Those with greater than 300ft-lb are very expensive. I found one with 250ft-lb spec at my price range.
Question is, is there difference between static torque vs impact torque? In other words, will 250ft-lb impact wrench loosen 300ft-lb bolt?
Browsing YouTube, I learned that torque specs are always misleading and inflated. This means, I have to find 600ft-lb or greater, and that's serious money. --- Post to this mailing list talk@gtalug.org Unsubscribe from this mailing list https://gtalug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
Post to this mailing list talk@gtalug.org Unsubscribe from this mailing list https://gtalug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
-- Evan Leibovitch, Toronto Canada @evanleibovitch / @el56
participants (12)
-
Alvin Starr
-
Dave Collier-Brown
-
David Collier-Brown
-
Don Tai
-
Evan Leibovitch
-
Howard Gibson
-
James Knott
-
o1bigtenor
-
Ron / BCLUG
-
Scott Allen
-
Steve Petrie
-
William Park