speaking of doctors, how about electronic repair ones?
as in things like DVD or cd players, coffeemakers those sorts of electronics? In the case of the DVD player it is a better quality Panasonic model, so I may ask them about out of warranty work. Other ideas? Thanks, Karen
We're in a throw-away culture. I think that DVD players are quite inexpensive at Value Village and the like. First-world people's time is expensive and most consumer hardware is cheap. Of course there are exceptions. Most stuff is made to be inexpensive and functional, not easy to repair. I recently inherited have an almost perfectly good portable radio. I'm pretty sure that all that is wrong is that the volume control potentiometer is worn out. But the time for me to disassemble the unit, figure out a replacement pot (if possible), reassemble would be worth much more than an AM/FM radio. Expensive things may be worth repairing. Or simple failures. All is not lost. The next meeting of the Repair Cafe is this Saturday at Withrow Park Farmer's Market: <https://repaircafetoronto.ca/> It might be worth pre-registering your item for repair.
From: Karen Lewellen via Talk <talk@lists.gtalug.org> To: talk@lists.gtalug.org Cc: Karen Lewellen <klewellen@shellworld.net> Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2025 22:48:41 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [GTALUG] speaking of doctors, how about electronic repair ones?
as in things like DVD or cd players, coffeemakers those sorts of electronics? In the case of the DVD player it is a better quality Panasonic model, so I may ask them about out of warranty work. Other ideas? Thanks, Karen
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Thanks for this! Its interesting you spoke of value village. How are they allowed to sell items that do not work? I sought to replace the coffeemaker with a new one from them only for it not to function. If this repair cafe is doable, may take the coffeemaker I have now, it is leaking from the bottom for no reason. I do resonate with the consumer electronics made cheep..I just bought what was supposed to be a quality replacement for my headphone extension. Mine has a stereo / mono switch, has some gold plated connectors and so forth..actually that may be a repair cafe fix too. The new one? is made of some thin string type cable, is short,and looks like a sneeze would damage the thing. thanks again, Kare On Thu, 26 Jun 2025, D. Hugh Redelmeier via Talk wrote:
We're in a throw-away culture.
I think that DVD players are quite inexpensive at Value Village and the like.
First-world people's time is expensive and most consumer hardware is cheap. Of course there are exceptions.
Most stuff is made to be inexpensive and functional, not easy to repair.
I recently inherited have an almost perfectly good portable radio. I'm pretty sure that all that is wrong is that the volume control potentiometer is worn out. But the time for me to disassemble the unit, figure out a replacement pot (if possible), reassemble would be worth much more than an AM/FM radio.
Expensive things may be worth repairing. Or simple failures.
All is not lost. The next meeting of the Repair Cafe is this Saturday at Withrow Park Farmer's Market: <https://repaircafetoronto.ca/> It might be worth pre-registering your item for repair.
From: Karen Lewellen via Talk <talk@lists.gtalug.org> To: talk@lists.gtalug.org Cc: Karen Lewellen <klewellen@shellworld.net> Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2025 22:48:41 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [GTALUG] speaking of doctors, how about electronic repair ones?
as in things like DVD or cd players, coffeemakers those sorts of electronics? In the case of the DVD player it is a better quality Panasonic model, so I may ask them about out of warranty work. Other ideas? Thanks, Karen
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Karen Lewellen via Talk said on Wed, 25 Jun 2025 22:48:41 -0400 (EDT)
as in things like DVD or cd players, coffeemakers those sorts of electronics? In the case of the DVD player it is a better quality Panasonic model, so I may ask them about out of warranty work. Other ideas? Thanks, Karen
I was a consumer audio repair doctor in the late 1970's and the first half of the 1980's. Here is what happened... Equipment got much more complicated and difficult to repair, all the while getting cheaper to buy new. Circuit boards went from easy to work on single side, to more difficult double side, to insanely difficult multilayer. Equipment was made to break sooner and sooner. Today's less than $1000.00 bicycle is built to last only 750 miles. Today's appliances are lucky to last 5 years, whereas many 20th century appliances are still running. My advice: Get a new DVD player. SteveT Steve Litt http://444domains.com
Cannot resist countering this idea with alternative experience. in 1990 I bought a Sony stereo system. Over the past several years I have replaced speakers, once..these are the large ones think hi fi unit. I have replaced the cd player once, a gift from my former fiance who upgraded me to a five cd unit. I just for the first time replaced the turntable this week, because a repair cafe visit went reprehensibly wrong. still the new Sony turntable will plug right into the 1990 Sony receiver. Twice I have gotten the receiver checked out, both times by ring audio, which frankly stuns me given how often I have moved it. because of my work, equipment is an investment..and over time finding quality repair hands have paid off. Your work in the field ended before I even bought my current unit. To be sure, especially computers, seem to be built for breaking. A solid stereo system? Speaking very personally, they are built to be loved. I might add that the logistics in finding a replacement are far far more complicated in my case..but that is rather well known around here smiles. Kare On Thu, 26 Jun 2025, Steve Litt via Talk wrote:
Karen Lewellen via Talk said on Wed, 25 Jun 2025 22:48:41 -0400 (EDT)
as in things like DVD or cd players, coffeemakers those sorts of electronics? In the case of the DVD player it is a better quality Panasonic model, so I may ask them about out of warranty work. Other ideas? Thanks, Karen
I was a consumer audio repair doctor in the late 1970's and the first half of the 1980's. Here is what happened...
Equipment got much more complicated and difficult to repair, all the while getting cheaper to buy new.
Circuit boards went from easy to work on single side, to more difficult double side, to insanely difficult multilayer.
Equipment was made to break sooner and sooner. Today's less than $1000.00 bicycle is built to last only 750 miles. Today's appliances are lucky to last 5 years, whereas many 20th century appliances are still running.
My advice: Get a new DVD player.
SteveT
Steve Litt
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Karen Lewellen said on Thu, 26 Jun 2025 03:58:44 -0400 (EDT)
Cannot resist countering this idea with alternative experience. in 1990 I bought a Sony stereo system. Over the past several years I have replaced speakers, once..these are the large ones think hi fi unit. I have replaced the cd player once, a gift from my former fiance who upgraded me to a five cd unit. I just for the first time replaced the turntable this week, because a repair cafe visit went reprehensibly wrong. still the new Sony turntable will plug right into the 1990 Sony receiver. Twice I have gotten the receiver checked out, both times by ring audio, which frankly stuns me given how often I have moved it. because of my work, equipment is an investment..and over time finding quality repair hands have paid off. Your work in the field ended before I even bought my current unit. To be sure, especially computers, seem to be built for breaking. A solid stereo system? Speaking very personally, they are built to be loved. I might add that the logistics in finding a replacement are far far more complicated in my case..but that is rather well known around here smiles. Kare
:-) I think you just made my case. You mentioned four replacements, two "checkouts" and one repair. The repair was so bad you needed to replace. Now let me add to the reasons to repair instead of replace. A 20th century appliance is built so simply that it's easy to repair, and there are repair people who still know how to repair it. If you were to replace it with a 2025 appliance, that appliance would go bad in 4 years and would cost the purchase price to fix. So I just made your case :-) So if you have a high quality possession, AND there are still people around who know how to repair it, AND it doesn't cost a fortune to repair, AND there are still parts available for it right, AND the whole thing isn't worn out to the point that if you fix it now, something else will break in 3 months, over and over again, then repair is by far the best option. As far as DVD players, I don't know if you're looking for internal, USB or standaline, but I'm seeing lots of them for under $100.00 at Newegg. No competent repair person will remove a screw for less than $70.00. SteveT Steve Litt http://444domains.com
Now let me add to the reasons to repair instead of replace. A 20th century appliance is built so simply that it's easy to repair, and there are repair people who still know how to repair it. If you were to replace it with a 2025 appliance, that appliance would go bad in 4 years and would cost the purchase price to fix. So I just made your case 🙂 Back in the 80s, I was a computer tech, maintaining systems from Data General, DEC, Collins & Prime. Back then, the equipment was very expensive and worth it to take the time to repair. In addition to board level repairs, on the Data General Eclipse systems, I'd get right down into the microcode, which was the "software" within the CPU. The Eclipse used 4 4 bit wide bit slice processors, ROM and a lot of logic
On 6/27/25 01:52, Steve Litt via Talk wrote: that occupied 2 15" square circuit boards. These days, a tech of my calibre couldn't even attempt to repair a CPU, because it's all in one big IC. I have done board level repairs since then, working with surface mount devices, but even at that skill level, I couldn't repair something, if I couldn't find a replacement part. BTW, back then I read about the new Intel 80386, which was supposed to be as powerful as the VAX 11/780 CPU. I realized then, my days as a computer tech were numbered.
James Knott via Talk said on Fri, 27 Jun 2025 11:14:07 -0400
On 6/27/25 01:52, Steve Litt via Talk wrote:
Now let me add to the reasons to repair instead of replace. A 20th century appliance is built so simply that it's easy to repair, and there are repair people who still know how to repair it. If you were to replace it with a 2025 appliance, that appliance would go bad in 4 years and would cost the purchase price to fix. So I just made your case 🙂 Back in the 80s, I was a computer tech, maintaining systems from Data General, DEC,
DEC was great. I used several PDP 11s and 1 VAX. On PDP 11, we used RT/11 running TSX to give it multiuser capability.
Collins & Prime.Â
Prime was great. I used a Prime as a student at Santa Monica Community College in the 1980's. They must have had about 60 Wyse terminals hooked to that thing via serial cables, and there were never any problems. SteveT Steve Litt http://444domains.com
On 6/27/25 15:12, Steve Litt via Talk wrote:
Back in the 80s, I was a computer tech, maintaining systems from Data General, DEC, DEC was great. I used several PDP 11s and 1 VAX. On PDP 11, we used RT/11 running TSX to give it multiuser capability.
Collins & Prime. Prime was great. I used a Prime as a student at Santa Monica Community College in the 1980's. They must have had about 60 Wyse terminals hooked to that thing via serial cables, and there were never any problems.
We had 7 VAX 11/780s, several PDP-11s and one, count 'em, 1 PDP-8i! While I worked on all the systems I mentioned, I spent most of my time on Data General systems. There were several techs where I worked and we tended to specialize on which systems we worked on. One of the things I did was hand wire an Ethernet controller on a prototyping board for an Eclipse computer. I'm probably the only one on this list who has ever done anything like that. We didn't have any Wyse terminals, mostly DEC & Data Generals, though we also had a bunch on Ontel smart terminals, which, IIRC, were made in Canada. I also used to work on some really dumb (retarded? 😉) terminals that had absolutely no smarts and relied on a Data General Nova to do simple text editing, etc.. These were so old they used an acoustic delay line for memory!
From: James Knott via Talk <talk@lists.gtalug.org>
We didn't have any Wyse terminals, mostly DEC & Data Generals, though we also had a bunch on Ontel smart terminals, which, IIRC, were made in Canada. I also used to work on some really dumb (retarded? 😉) terminals that had absolutely no smarts and relied on a Data General Nova to do simple text editing, etc.. These were so old they used an acoustic delay line for memory!
All I can find about Ontel seems to be about smart terminals, like the OP-1. You must have had an earlier model. To use an acoustic delay line, they must have been really really old. You would know better than I because you repaired them. I remember IBM 2260 display terminals. A bank of them was driven by one controller. The controller used an acoustic delay line for the screen memory. (I had always been told that it was a magneto-restrictive delay line, but Wikipedia says otherwise). This terminal system was introduced in 1964, before IBM used integrated circuits. <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBM_2260> By the time that "glass TTYs" came on the scene, ICs were available and other forms of memory were used. I remember getting a large shift-register memory from a Datapoint terminal (the Intel 8008 architecture matches the Datapoint 2200's processor). Remember that a dumb terminal only needed 24 x 80 characters of buffer. Now we expect bit-mapped displays -- much larger frame buffers. Those display architectures were held back by memory costs. I used a Tektronix terminal on a PDP-8/i (1968/1969). It used a storage CRT so that it didn't need to have a buffer! It felt a bit like using an e-ink display because the whole screen had to be rewritten to make a change (additions didn't require a refresh). The PDP-8/i software was written for a teletype, so basically the user would clear the screen when it filled up -- sort of like putting a new piece of paper in a teletype.
From: D. Hugh Redelmeier via Talk <talk@lists.gtalug.org>
By the time that "glass TTYs" came on the scene, ICs were available and other forms of memory were used. I remember getting a large shift-register memory from a Datapoint terminal (the Intel 8008 architecture matches the Datapoint 2200's processor).
Here's the Wikipedia article on teh Datapoint 3300, "one of the first glass TTYs". The article goes into more detail about shift-registers being used as the screen memory. Shift registers are a lot simpler than RAM. There's no addressing logic. There are no address pins. (I always thought that SPARC's register windows could have taken a lot less resources if were implemented with shift registers. There was no need to support random access for non-current windows.)
From: D. Hugh Redelmeier <hugh@mimosa.com>
Here's the Wikipedia article on the Datapoint 3300,
On 6/28/25 11:12, D. Hugh Redelmeier via Talk wrote:
From: D. Hugh Redelmeier <hugh@mimosa.com> Here's the Wikipedia article on the Datapoint 3300,
And the 2200: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Datapoint_2200
On 6/28/25 11:10, D. Hugh Redelmeier via Talk wrote:
Here's the Wikipedia article on teh Datapoint 3300, "one of the first glass TTYs". The article goes into more detail about shift-registers being used as the screen memory.
Shift registers are a lot simpler than RAM. There's no addressing logic. There are no address pins.
Early versions of the Datapoint 2200 came with shift register memory. However all the ones I worked on had dynamic memory.
On 6/28/25 10:49, D. Hugh Redelmeier via Talk wrote:
From: James Knott via Talk <talk@lists.gtalug.org> We didn't have any Wyse terminals, mostly DEC & Data Generals, though we also had a bunch on Ontel smart terminals, which, IIRC, were made in Canada. I also used to work on some really dumb (retarded? 😉) terminals that had absolutely no smarts and relied on a Data General Nova to do simple text editing, etc.. These were so old they used an acoustic delay line for memory! All I can find about Ontel seems to be about smart terminals, like the OP-1. You must have had an earlier model.
Yes, it was a smart terminal. It used an 8080 CPU and could be programmed to emulate other terminals
To use an acoustic delay line, they must have been really really old. You would know better than I because you repaired them.
I remember IBM 2260 display terminals. A bank of them was driven by one controller. The controller used an acoustic delay line for the screen memory. (I had always been told that it was a magneto-restrictive delay line, but Wikipedia says otherwise). This terminal system was introduced in 1964, before IBM used integrated circuits. <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBM_2260>
Magneto-restrictive sounds about right. The terminals were made by "VST". They were connected to a Data General Nova 800 and used for creating telegrams. Later on, the telegram system moved to a pair of Eclipse computers and used the Ontel terminals.
By the time that "glass TTYs" came on the scene, ICs were available and other forms of memory were used. I remember getting a large shift-register memory from a Datapoint terminal (the Intel 8008 architecture matches the Datapoint 2200's processor).
I also used to work on the 2200 on the CN TRACS system, which was used to keep track of freight trains consists. It was originally supposed to use the 8008, but since it couldn't deliver the required performance, Datapoint created their own CPU board. That system used ASCII internally and to the printer, Baudot for remote printer lines, EBCDIC on the serial lines to a mainframe computer in Montreal and Hollerith in the card punch/reader. I serviced all that gear, along with the data connections to elsewhere. The 2200 was also where I first came across BASIC.
Remember that a dumb terminal only needed 24 x 80 characters of buffer. Now we expect bit-mapped displays -- much larger frame buffers. Those display architectures were held back by memory costs.
I used a Tektronix terminal on a PDP-8/i (1968/1969). It used a storage CRT so that it didn't need to have a buffer! It felt a bit like using an e-ink display because the whole screen had to be rewritten to make a change (additions didn't require a refresh). The PDP-8/i software was written for a teletype, so basically the user would clear the screen when it filled up -- sort of like putting a new piece of paper in a teletype.
Our PDP-8i was used with Phillips terminals in an older telegram system. There were a dozen terminals, IIRC.
Actually no on the replacement of my turntable. Took the turntable to repair cafe to have the RCA wires on the back reinforced. Item was taken where I could not discuss learn and supervise. fixer decided to remove the base for the tone arm, and disconnect the tonearm entirely..because he had never seen one. That is far from a typical repair. Could ring audio likely fix it? sure. Still I desired moving from a turntable powered by my receiver to one with its own power source..and bought a Sony. Still keeping the turntable damaged att he repair cafe though. Might add that I plugged speakers into receiver last night. They sound glorious! On Fri, 27 Jun 2025, Steve Litt via Talk wrote:
Karen Lewellen said on Thu, 26 Jun 2025 03:58:44 -0400 (EDT)
Cannot resist countering this idea with alternative experience. in 1990 I bought a Sony stereo system. Over the past several years I have replaced speakers, once..these are the large ones think hi fi unit. I have replaced the cd player once, a gift from my former fiance who upgraded me to a five cd unit. I just for the first time replaced the turntable this week, because a repair cafe visit went reprehensibly wrong. still the new Sony turntable will plug right into the 1990 Sony receiver. Twice I have gotten the receiver checked out, both times by ring audio, which frankly stuns me given how often I have moved it. because of my work, equipment is an investment..and over time finding quality repair hands have paid off. Your work in the field ended before I even bought my current unit. To be sure, especially computers, seem to be built for breaking. A solid stereo system? Speaking very personally, they are built to be loved. I might add that the logistics in finding a replacement are far far more complicated in my case..but that is rather well known around here smiles. Kare
:-)
I think you just made my case. You mentioned four replacements, two "checkouts" and one repair. The repair was so bad you needed to replace.
Now let me add to the reasons to repair instead of replace. A 20th century appliance is built so simply that it's easy to repair, and there are repair people who still know how to repair it. If you were to replace it with a 2025 appliance, that appliance would go bad in 4 years and would cost the purchase price to fix. So I just made your case :-)
So if you have a high quality possession, AND there are still people around who know how to repair it, AND it doesn't cost a fortune to repair, AND there are still parts available for it right, AND the whole thing isn't worn out to the point that if you fix it now, something else will break in 3 months, over and over again, then repair is by far the best option.
As far as DVD players, I don't know if you're looking for internal, USB or standaline, but I'm seeing lots of them for under $100.00 at Newegg. No competent repair person will remove a screw for less than $70.00.
SteveT
Steve Litt
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From: Karen Lewellen via Talk <talk@lists.gtalug.org>
Still I desired moving from a turntable powered by my receiver to one with its own power source..and bought a Sony.
I don't know of any turntables that are powered by receivers. Maybe I misunderstand you. Traditionally, turntables output a signal that must be "equalized" by the receiver <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RIAA_equalization> This makes phonograph inputs on receivers different from other audio inputs. That isn't a matter of the receiver powering the receiver. Many modern receivers don't have a phonograph inputs. Some phonograph cartridges are "moving coil". Those produce very low power output signals. It used to be that the best way to support those signals was with a dedicated moving coil pre-amplifier. You could get away with a passive transformer (that's what I did). (I don't know if the technology has change in the 40 years that I've been ignoring it.) <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnetic_cartridge> Is this where you get the idea of a receiver powering a phonograph?
On Sat, 28 Jun 2025 10:05:24 -0400 (EDT) "D. Hugh Redelmeier via Talk" <talk@lists.gtalug.org> wrote:
I don't know of any turntables that are powered by receivers. Maybe I misunderstand you.
Hugh, The Harmon Kardan 230E receiver I bought in 1979 has a plug for the turntable. I thought that was standard for back in the day. For the record, I have my original receiver and loudspeakers, and I am on to my second turntable. I have a computer plugged into my TV, and I use the stereo as sound output for all. It works quite well. -- Howard Gibson hgibson@eol.ca http://home.eol.ca/~hgibson
Howard Gibson via Talk said on Sat, 28 Jun 2025 10:47:12 -0400 I have a computer plugged into my TV, and
I use the stereo as sound output for all. It works quite well.
Where the heck can you still find a TV with a headphone jack? SteveT Steve Litt http://444domains.com
On Sat, 28 Jun 2025 16:27:19 -0400 Steve Litt via Talk <talk@lists.gtalug.org> wrote:
Howard Gibson via Talk said on Sat, 28 Jun 2025 10:47:12 -0400
I have a computer plugged into my TV, and
I use the stereo as sound output for all. It works quite well.
Where the heck can you still find a TV with a headphone jack?
Steve, My TV is about ten years old. Its internal speakers are crap. It needs a sound output device. There are few, if any Bluetooth devices that sound as good as my stereo. Are you sure your TV has no sound output jack? -- Howard Gibson hgibson@eol.ca http://home.eol.ca/~hgibson
Howard Gibson via Talk said on Sat, 28 Jun 2025 17:07:41 -0400
On Sat, 28 Jun 2025 16:27:19 -0400 Steve Litt via Talk <talk@lists.gtalug.org> wrote:
Howard Gibson via Talk said on Sat, 28 Jun 2025 10:47:12 -0400
I have a computer plugged into my TV, and
I use the stereo as sound output for all. It works quite well.
Where the heck can you still find a TV with a headphone jack?
Steve,
My TV is about ten years old. Its internal speakers are crap. It needs a sound output device. There are few, if any Bluetooth devices that sound as good as my stereo. Are you sure your TV has no sound output jack?
Mine does. I bought a TV prior to this one, a Samsung. It had no headphone jack, but had one of those fiberoptic sound cables that needs a $40 adapter to plug into RCA input jacks, and even after I bought that, it didn't work anyway, because Samsung. My current TV is many years old, it's a piece of crap and I knew I was buying a piece of crap, but at least it has a headphone jack, and those were getting very rare back in those days. You know what salesmen told me? Get a modern receiver with fiber optic audio input. Yeah sure, but a brand new, several hundred dollar receiver, to take the place of my little amp that works just fine, just because the manufacturers removed a twenty five cent headphone jack. Umm, no. Seriously. Look around. Look at the list of inputs and outputs on TVs in a store. Almost none has a headphone jack output listed, because almost none has a headphone jack, because they want to obsolete you into a new receiver. Umm, no. SteveT Steve Litt http://444domains.com
On Sun, 29 Jun 2025 03:39:02 -0400 Steve Litt via Talk <talk@lists.gtalug.org> wrote:
Mine does. I bought a TV prior to this one, a Samsung. It had no headphone jack, but had one of those fiberoptic sound cables that needs a $40 adapter to plug into RCA input jacks, and even after I bought that, it didn't work anyway, because Samsung. My current TV is many years old, it's a piece of crap and I knew I was buying a piece of crap, but at least it has a headphone jack, and those were getting very rare back in those days.
You know what salesmen told me? Get a modern receiver with fiber optic audio input. Yeah sure, but a brand new, several hundred dollar receiver, to take the place of my little amp that works just fine, just because the manufacturers removed a twenty five cent headphone jack. Umm, no.
Seriously. Look around. Look at the list of inputs and outputs on TVs in a store. Almost none has a headphone jack output listed, because almost none has a headphone jack, because they want to obsolete you into a new receiver.
Steve, I am doing something here that has to be fairly common. I bought a cheap desktop, and I installed it next to my TV and stereo. I watch YouTube and Netflix. I connected the computer's HDMI to my TV. I connected my TV audio to my receiver. I wish my TV were a bit bigger, but otherise, I have excellent sound. I have a now uncommon problem. I have about 600 LPs sitting around, and I am digitizing them for my car. That means plugging the auxiliary sound output to my computer. For some reason, my headphone jack does terrible sound. I have had the stereo for 45 years, and I have never owned headphones. Corrosion? -- Howard Gibson hgibson@eol.ca http://home.eol.ca/~hgibson
Howard Gibson via Talk said on Sun, 29 Jun 2025 10:30:58 -0400
On Sun, 29 Jun 2025 03:39:02 -0400
Steve,
I am doing something here that has to be fairly common. I bought a cheap desktop, and I installed it next to my TV and stereo. I watch YouTube and Netflix. I connected the computer's HDMI to my TV. I connected my TV audio to my receiver.
Via what kind of interface do you connect TV audio to your receiver?
I wish my TV were a bit bigger, but otherise, I have excellent sound.
I have a now uncommon problem. I have about 600 LPs sitting around, and I am digitizing them for my car. That means plugging the auxiliary sound output to my computer. For some reason, my headphone jack does terrible sound. I have had the stereo for 45 years, and I have never owned headphones. Corrosion?
You're talking to exactly the right guy on the topics of digitizing vinyl and interface corrosion. Let's take the corrosion first: Howard, the 1/8 inch headphone jack and plug are one of the stupidest electronic connection standards ever created (but less stupid than that fiber red light thing). 1/8 headphone jack/plug are too small to keep constant contact as things wiggle, and the slightest corrosion makes them static or just plain not work. So the question becomes, what to do about corrosion, not only on this type of electronic interface, but more on this type than, let's say, RCA jack/plug. I did a pretty complete study of this corrosion problem back in the early 00's. Short version: Put some electronics lubricant on the plug, plug and unplug it 20 times to knock off corrosion. Repeat a couple more times. The lubricant must be both a cleaner and a lubricant, because this type of corrosion (it's called fretting corrosion) is the product of friction and vibration. You need to reduce that friction, and that's what a lubricant does. But the lubricant needs to be safe for plastics and electronics. Here's some stuff I think is pretty good and reasonably priced, but it's getting harder and harder to find: https://covalin.com/products/lube-job-electronics-lubricant-cleans-and-lubri... I've also used transmission fluid, Breakfree CLP, and even WD-40, but this was an off-label usage and iffy. For more info, read the following: https://troubleshooters.com/tpromag/200310/200310.htm DIGITIZING VINYL A real challenge if done right. The more bits your A to D converter, the less you need to constantly ride herd over your input volume control and your VU meters, and still use normalizing software so everything has the same general volume. Here are the slides of a presentation I made to Linux Enthusiasts and Professionals in 2010: https://troubleshooters.com/linux/presentations/leap_digitizing/leap_digitiz... HTH, SteveT Steve Litt http://444domains.com
On Sun, 29 Jun 2025 18:02:48 -0400 Steve Litt via Talk <talk@lists.gtalug.org> wrote:
Howard Gibson via Talk said on Sun, 29 Jun 2025 10:30:58 -0400
On Sun, 29 Jun 2025 03:39:02 -0400
Steve,
I am doing something here that has to be fairly common. I bought a cheap desktop, and I installed it next to my TV and stereo. I watch YouTube and Netflix. I connected the computer's HDMI to my TV. I connected my TV audio to my receiver.
Via what kind of interface do you connect TV audio to your receiver?
Steve, A tri-ax audio jack from my TV, to auxiliary in on my stereo. -- Howard Gibson hgibson@eol.ca http://home.eol.ca/~hgibson
On Sun, 29 Jun 2025 at 18:03, Steve Litt via Talk <talk@lists.gtalug.org> wrote:
But the lubricant needs to be safe for plastics and electronics. Here's some stuff I think is pretty good and reasonably priced, but it's getting harder and harder to find: https://covalin.com/products/lube-job-electronics-lubricant-cleans-and-lubri...
Sayal Electronics sell a number of electronics cleaning and lubricating products. https://secure.sayal.com/STORE2/details.php?PID=232083 I bought the following from them quite a few years ago. It's a bit expensive but you generally only use a small amount, so it goes a long way. https://secure.sayal.com/STORE2/View_SHOP.php?SKU=232066 -- Scott
D. Hugh Redelmeier via Talk said on Sat, 28 Jun 2025 10:05:24 -0400 (EDT)
From: Karen Lewellen via Talk <talk@lists.gtalug.org>
Still I desired moving from a turntable powered by my receiver to one with its own power source..and bought a Sony.
I don't know of any turntables that are powered by receivers. Maybe I misunderstand you.
I *think* she's referring to a "record player", which is an amp and possibly a radio physically including a turntable. These were common in the 1950's and 1960's before the hi-fi boom of the 1970's. As a consumer audio repairman, I can tell you these were a bitch to repair, because everything was crammed into one box. It was easy to remove the turntable, but you had to put it back in to do every diagnostic test. With the (IMHO silly) re-emergence of vinyl records, there are brand new record players being manufactured today. See https://www.ebay.com/itm/364218595525 for what I mean. And Karen is right: A separate and distinct turntable is much better: It can be tested on its own, repaired on its own, replaced, hooked to a different amp, and you specify the best turntable without reference to the amp, the radio, the CD and the cassette recorder. The only real advantage of these "all in one" units is that they take up less space, which, in these days of rent that grabs half the paycheck, is definitely something to be considered. One more advantage of the "all in one" is that it's easy to digitize your vinyl, if you're not at all picky about the quality of the digitized copy. Otherwise, you might be interested in my 2010 presentation on digitizing your vinyl records: https://troubleshooters.com/linux/presentations/leap_digitizing/leap_digitiz... SteveT Steve Litt http://444domains.com
D. Hugh Redelmeier via Talk said on Sat, 28 Jun 2025 10:05:24 -0400 (EDT)
From: Karen Lewellen via Talk <talk@lists.gtalug.org> Still I desired moving from a turntable powered by my receiver to one with its own power source..and bought a Sony. I don't know of any turntables that are powered by receivers. Maybe I misunderstand you.
In the early days of hi-fi, my father had a Harman-Karden amplifier which had socket for the radio and recod player power cords, and powered them up if they were selected as the input device. --dave -- David Collier-Brown, | Always do right. This will gratify System Programmer and Author | some people and astonish the rest davecb@spamcop.net | -- Mark Twain
Hi there, no. I am referring to technically a rack system. The turntable, is a Sony pslx 29. You can still find references to it, sharing the model helped Sony lead me to the pxls310 I just got. While the unit does allot of things I have zero interest in, bluetooth, USB, it still has RCA cables for the Sony receiver I have used since 1990. On Sat, 28 Jun 2025, Steve Litt via Talk wrote:
D. Hugh Redelmeier via Talk said on Sat, 28 Jun 2025 10:05:24 -0400 (EDT)
From: Karen Lewellen via Talk <talk@lists.gtalug.org>
Still I desired moving from a turntable powered by my receiver to one with its own power source..and bought a Sony.
I don't know of any turntables that are powered by receivers. Maybe I misunderstand you.
I *think* she's referring to a "record player", which is an amp and possibly a radio physically including a turntable. These were common in the 1950's and 1960's before the hi-fi boom of the 1970's. As a consumer audio repairman, I can tell you these were a bitch to repair, because everything was crammed into one box. It was easy to remove the turntable, but you had to put it back in to do every diagnostic test.
With the (IMHO silly) re-emergence of vinyl records, there are brand new record players being manufactured today.
See https://www.ebay.com/itm/364218595525 for what I mean.
And Karen is right: A separate and distinct turntable is much better: It can be tested on its own, repaired on its own, replaced, hooked to a different amp, and you specify the best turntable without reference to the amp, the radio, the CD and the cassette recorder. The only real advantage of these "all in one" units is that they take up less space, which, in these days of rent that grabs half the paycheck, is definitely something to be considered.
One more advantage of the "all in one" is that it's easy to digitize your vinyl, if you're not at all picky about the quality of the digitized copy. Otherwise, you might be interested in my 2010 presentation on digitizing your vinyl records:
https://troubleshooters.com/linux/presentations/leap_digitizing/leap_digitiz...
SteveT
Steve Litt
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Karen Lewellen said on Sat, 28 Jun 2025 22:53:00 -0400 (EDT)
Hi there, no. I am referring to technically a rack system. The turntable, is a Sony pslx 29.
That's some information that would have been helpful and saved a lot of guessing 16 posts ago. Now of course we need to guess whether this is the old turntable or the new one. If "powered" means from wall current, which is what almost anybody would surmise from the phrase, then this thing is not "powered" by the receiver, but plugs into the wall. If you want to plug it into one of the outlets on the back of your receiver, that's your privilege, but it plugs into the wall. SteveT Steve Litt http://444domains.com
Steve, The Sony psls 29 has no wall plug. Instead it has a phono plug that fits the phono jack on the back of the receiver..therefore it is powered by the receiver's own power source. Karen On Sun, 29 Jun 2025, Steve Litt via Talk wrote:
Karen Lewellen said on Sat, 28 Jun 2025 22:53:00 -0400 (EDT)
Hi there, no. I am referring to technically a rack system. The turntable, is a Sony pslx 29.
That's some information that would have been helpful and saved a lot of guessing 16 posts ago. Now of course we need to guess whether this is the old turntable or the new one. If "powered" means from wall current, which is what almost anybody would surmise from the phrase, then this thing is not "powered" by the receiver, but plugs into the wall. If you want to plug it into one of the outlets on the back of your receiver, that's your privilege, but it plugs into the wall.
SteveT
Steve Litt
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From: Karen Lewellen via Talk <talk@lists.gtalug.org>
The Sony psls 29 has no wall plug.
Elsewhere you call it a pslx 29. I imagine that is more correct. Even so, I haven't found it via search. I've found PS-LX2 and PS-LX295.
Instead it has a phono plug that fits the phono jack on the back of the receiver..therefore it is powered by the receiver's own power source.
Interesting. Normally "phono" is short for "phonograph". What does this "phono" plug look like? In North America, a phono plug is actually two RCA-style plugs, one for left and one for right. It only carries RIAA-equalized analogue audio. The left is normally white or black. The right is normally red. In Europe, a 5-pin DIN connector If you see a yellow RCA connector, that is normally "composite video" (analogue). If you see three RCA connectors, blue, green and red, that will be a "component video" (analogue). This can have better resolution than composite video.
On Sun, 29 Jun 2025 at 13:10, Karen Lewellen via Talk <talk@lists.gtalug.org> wrote:
The Sony psls 29 has no wall plug. Instead it has a phono plug that fits the phono jack on the back of the receiver..therefore it is powered by the receiver's own power source.
My search for the existence of a Sony model psls 29 didn't turn up anything meaningful. Perhaps you meant the Sony PS-LX295 turntable. If so, it is indeed true that the turntable is powered from 12VDC provided by the receiver. However, the power connection does not use a phono plug. It's a, perhaps proprietary, rectangular 3 pin connector. https://archives.doctsf.com/documents/afficher_document.php?num_doc=98774&num_fic=1 -- Scott
On Mon, Jun 30, 2025 at 09:37:32AM -0400, Scott Allen via Talk wrote:
My search for the existence of a Sony model psls 29 didn't turn up anything meaningful. Perhaps you meant the Sony PS-LX295 turntable. If so, it is indeed true that the turntable is powered from 12VDC provided by the receiver.
However, the power connection does not use a phono plug. It's a, perhaps proprietary, rectangular 3 pin connector.
https://archives.doctsf.com/documents/afficher_document.php?num_doc=98774&num_fic=1
Oh yes Sony liked to pretend they were selling modular hifi pieces, but were cost cutting by sharing power supplies between components, so they only worked with the Sony amp. Quite a lot of their record and tape decks used that power connector for a number of years. These days there is nothing they will connecto to made of course. Some people retrofit a standard power socket on them and use an external 12V DC power supply to run them instead. -- Len Sorensen
Hi Scott, hmm perhaps a typo in my Sony file then. Although the plug I have connects to a port I believe is labeled phono on the back, it also seems? to have more than three pins, even if indeed rectangular.
Although the plug I have connects to a port I believe is labeled phono on the back
If it is labeled "phono" it would only be because it's for connecting to a phonograph. "Phono" plugs are generally understood to be another name for RCA plugs. The PS-LX295 turntable also has two phono plugs (RCA plugs) on cables that feed the audio output to the receiver.
it also seems? to have more than three pins, even if indeed rectangular.
If your turntable is a model PS-LX295 or PS-LX285, the rectangular power connector would definitely only have 3 pins (and only the two outside pins are actually used). -- Scott
Hi, Yes on the RCA cables, there is a corresponding option on the front specifically for the turntable. Will take your word for it regarding the pins. My only point was that it is powered by the receiver. Karen On Wed, 2 Jul 2025, Scott Allen wrote:
Although the plug I have connects to a port I believe is labeled phono on the back
If it is labeled "phono" it would only be because it's for connecting to a phonograph. "Phono" plugs are generally understood to be another name for RCA plugs. The PS-LX295 turntable also has two phono plugs (RCA plugs) on cables that feed the audio output to the receiver.
it also seems? to have more than three pins, even if indeed rectangular.
If your turntable is a model PS-LX295 or PS-LX285, the rectangular power connector would definitely only have 3 pins (and only the two outside pins are actually used).
-- Scott
Perhaps I will manage a photo. to be forthright phonograph might be a better term? On the back of my Sony receiver is a phono plug. On the record player itself, there is indeed a plug that fits the phono jack and powers the unit. I can resonate this may be a challenge to picture however. On Sat, 28 Jun 2025, D. Hugh Redelmeier via Talk wrote:
From: Karen Lewellen via Talk <talk@lists.gtalug.org>
Still I desired moving from a turntable powered by my receiver to one with its own power source..and bought a Sony.
I don't know of any turntables that are powered by receivers. Maybe I misunderstand you.
Traditionally, turntables output a signal that must be "equalized" by the receiver <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RIAA_equalization> This makes phonograph inputs on receivers different from other audio inputs. That isn't a matter of the receiver powering the receiver. Many modern receivers don't have a phonograph inputs.
Some phonograph cartridges are "moving coil". Those produce very low power output signals. It used to be that the best way to support those signals was with a dedicated moving coil pre-amplifier. You could get away with a passive transformer (that's what I did). (I don't know if the technology has change in the 40 years that I've been ignoring it.) <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnetic_cartridge> Is this where you get the idea of a receiver powering a phonograph? ------------------------------------ Description: GTALUG Talk Unsubscribe via Talk-unsubscribe@lists.gtalug.org Start a new thread: talk@lists.gtalug.org This message archived at https://lists.gtalug.org/archives/list/talk@lists.gtalug.org/message/PFFTW2E...
If it's dust, you can use air blow gun. Otherwise, get another one, used or new. On 2025-06-25 22:48, Karen Lewellen via Talk wrote:
as in things like DVD or cd players, coffeemakers those sorts of electronics? In the case of the DVD player it is a better quality Panasonic model, so I may ask them about out of warranty work. Other ideas? Thanks, Karen
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On Wed, Jun 25, 2025 at 10:48:41PM -0400, Karen Lewellen via Talk wrote:
as in things like DVD or cd players, coffeemakers those sorts of electronics? In the case of the DVD player it is a better quality Panasonic model, so I may ask them about out of warranty work. Other ideas?
Any idea what model of Panasonic it is? Just wondering if there are any common failures. And is it not turning on at all, not loading/ejecting discs, or just not playing discs? -- Len Sorensen
Yes on the model. its a dmp-bd65 I actually have the manual. Also realize I have been insulting its integrity, media player doing more than just DVDs. As for the problem? I suspect it suffered from one of those times my former landlord's power use impacted the power on my floor. Worked fine, then stopped turning on at all. Perhaps a fuse? Karen On Thu, 26 Jun 2025, Lennart Sorensen wrote:
On Wed, Jun 25, 2025 at 10:48:41PM -0400, Karen Lewellen via Talk wrote:
as in things like DVD or cd players, coffeemakers those sorts of electronics? In the case of the DVD player it is a better quality Panasonic model, so I may ask them about out of warranty work. Other ideas?
Any idea what model of Panasonic it is? Just wondering if there are any common failures.
And is it not turning on at all, not loading/ejecting discs, or just not playing discs?
-- Len Sorensen
On Thu, Jun 26, 2025 at 12:25:59PM -0400, Karen Lewellen wrote:
Yes on the model. its a dmp-bd65 I actually have the manual. Also realize I have been insulting its integrity, media player doing more than just DVDs. As for the problem? I suspect it suffered from one of those times my former landlord's power use impacted the power on my floor. Worked fine, then stopped turning on at all. Perhaps a fuse?
Yeah it seems to be a DVD, blu-ray and verious other media player. Certainly it could have a fuse on the power supply that is blown. Or some other component on the power supply could have failed. I can find some suggestions that if a button on the front panel of the player is stuck pressed in that prevents it turning on, but I can't imagine why that would have just happened so it doesn't sound very likely. According to https://panasonic.encompass.com/model/MSCDMPBD65 there definitely is a fuse in it, and apparently they use that particular fuse in hundreds of products. So at least one of the repair places should easily be able to tell if the fuse is OK or not or if something else is causing the power problem. -- Len Sorensen
Thanks for this. Will simply ask Panasonic Canada who they recommend. I used to play cds as well, I quite like the remote for playing both types of materials. Kare On Thu, 26 Jun 2025, Lennart Sorensen wrote:
On Thu, Jun 26, 2025 at 12:25:59PM -0400, Karen Lewellen wrote:
Yes on the model. its a dmp-bd65 I actually have the manual. Also realize I have been insulting its integrity, media player doing more than just DVDs. As for the problem? I suspect it suffered from one of those times my former landlord's power use impacted the power on my floor. Worked fine, then stopped turning on at all. Perhaps a fuse?
Yeah it seems to be a DVD, blu-ray and verious other media player.
Certainly it could have a fuse on the power supply that is blown. Or some other component on the power supply could have failed.
I can find some suggestions that if a button on the front panel of the player is stuck pressed in that prevents it turning on, but I can't imagine why that would have just happened so it doesn't sound very likely.
According to https://panasonic.encompass.com/model/MSCDMPBD65 there definitely is a fuse in it, and apparently they use that particular fuse in hundreds of products.
So at least one of the repair places should easily be able to tell if the fuse is OK or not or if something else is causing the power problem.
-- Len Sorensen
I think the following URL is pertanent to this discussion: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IWeX4v3JX3Y SteveT Karen Lewellen via Talk said on Wed, 25 Jun 2025 22:48:41 -0400 (EDT)
as in things like DVD or cd players, coffeemakers those sorts of electronics? In the case of the DVD player it is a better quality Panasonic model, so I may ask them about out of warranty work. Other ideas? Thanks, Karen
For whom? On Sun, 29 Jun 2025, Steve Litt via Talk wrote:
I think the following URL is pertanent to this discussion:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IWeX4v3JX3Y
SteveT
Karen Lewellen via Talk said on Wed, 25 Jun 2025 22:48:41 -0400 (EDT)
as in things like DVD or cd players, coffeemakers those sorts of electronics? In the case of the DVD player it is a better quality Panasonic model, so I may ask them about out of warranty work. Other ideas? Thanks, Karen
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Everyone in the thread. Karen Lewellen said on Sun, 29 Jun 2025 13:04:13 -0400 (EDT)
For whom?
On Sun, 29 Jun 2025, Steve Litt via Talk wrote:
I think the following URL is pertanent to this discussion:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IWeX4v3JX3Y
SteveT
Karen Lewellen via Talk said on Wed, 25 Jun 2025 22:48:41 -0400 (EDT)
as in things like DVD or cd players, coffeemakers those sorts of electronics? In the case of the DVD player it is a better quality Panasonic model, so I may ask them about out of warranty work. Other ideas? Thanks, Karen
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SteveT Steve Litt http://444domains.com
From: Steve Litt via Talk <talk@lists.gtalug.org>
I think the following URL is pertanent to this discussion:
I watched this. I think that he overstates the case: - old equipment has components that may have died of old age - fixing is labour-intensive and therefore expensive - it is hard to find someone with the expertise to fix many problems. Partly because few are willing to pay those high costs. - exception: if you are willing and able to fix your own things, possibly taking a long time, you can do that. Quibble: a lot of things don't break I have old stereo equipment that I haven't used in a long time (7 years?) so I don't know if it works. I had it 30 to 40 years before that and it was fairly reliable. Cassette drive pinch-rollers dry out. Turntable belts dry out. I don't know of any capacitors drying out or leaking, but they could.
On Wed, 25 Jun 2025 22:48:41 -0400 (EDT) Karen Lewellen via Talk <talk@lists.gtalug.org> wrote:
as in things like DVD or cd players, coffeemakers those sorts of electronics? In the case of the DVD player it is a better quality Panasonic model, so I may ask them about out of warranty work. Other ideas? Thanks, Karen
Karen, On my Nikon D7100 camera, I managed to break the little hatch that covers the SD cards. I paid around $1250 for the camera body about ten years ago, so it is not disposable. I looked into getting it fixed. Henry's would not fix it, but they pointed out that I could order the piece and fix it myself. I did so. I have several sets of tiny screwdrivers here, which I absolutely needed. I suppose I could have ordered the part and brought it to a Repair Café. If I had not lost the hatch, I probably could have fixed it with a cyanoacrylate adhesive like Crazy Glue. Now, I have a lens with a mount that no longer attaches to the camera. I paid $600 for it, so I am looking into repair. -- Howard Gibson hgibson@eol.ca http://home.eol.ca/~hgibson
participants (9)
-
D. Hugh Redelmeier -
David Collier-Brown -
Howard Gibson -
James Knott -
Karen Lewellen -
Lennart Sorensen -
Scott Allen -
Steve Litt -
William Park