Recommendation for a media center front end?
Hi All, The latest software upgrade of my MythTv Frontend dropped support for my video card, so I guess its time to go shopping. I would appreciate any recommendations for small form factor or mini PC style hardware. I'm currently looking at a Beelink Mini S12 Pro Mini PC, Intel 12th Gen Alder Lake- N100(up to 3.4GHz), 16GB DDR4 RAM 500GB PCIe SSD which is going for $329 on Amazon. Has anyone had experience with this brand? Thanks -- Michael Galea
Wondering if a Raspberry Pi might be an option? Jim On Sat, Sep 7, 2024, 1:16 a.m. Michael Galea via talk <talk@gtalug.org> wrote:
Hi All, The latest software upgrade of my MythTv Frontend dropped support for my video card, so I guess its time to go shopping.
I would appreciate any recommendations for small form factor or mini PC style hardware.
I'm currently looking at a Beelink Mini S12 Pro Mini PC, Intel 12th Gen Alder Lake- N100(up to 3.4GHz), 16GB DDR4 RAM 500GB PCIe SSD which is going for $329 on Amazon. Has anyone had experience with this brand?
Thanks -- Michael Galea
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I have been using raspberry PIs for more than 10 years. Simple, cheap and easy to use. The PI also supports HDMI CEC (to allow you to use your TV remote to control the PI's interface) The PI is fanless super quiet and comes with loads of add-ons On Sat, Sep 7, 2024 at 10:23 AM Jim Ruxton via talk <talk@gtalug.org> wrote:
Wondering if a Raspberry Pi might be an option? Jim
On Sat, Sep 7, 2024, 1:16 a.m. Michael Galea via talk <talk@gtalug.org> wrote:
Hi All, The latest software upgrade of my MythTv Frontend dropped support for my video card, so I guess its time to go shopping.
I would appreciate any recommendations for small form factor or mini PC style hardware.
I'm currently looking at a Beelink Mini S12 Pro Mini PC, Intel 12th Gen Alder Lake- N100(up to 3.4GHz), 16GB DDR4 RAM 500GB PCIe SSD which is going for $329 on Amazon. Has anyone had experience with this brand?
Thanks -- Michael Galea
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I did consider the PI when both v3 and v4 came out. The V3 was a no go from the start, and with V4 I noticed stuttering and tearing. I wonder why your experience seems to be better than mine. One thing Ive noticed, and have to fix, is that HEVC encoded content seems to be burdening my existing CPU, often to the point where it overheats and shuts down. As to the CEC, I always just installed a wireless keyboard and used that to navigate Mythtv. PS: For those interested, I restored my system by downgrading the kernel and nvidia drivers from sid back to stabe to testing, which involved an amount of brain salad surgery. After a number of hours of reinstalling packages, most everything is back. On 2024-09-07 12:20, Ansar Mohammed via talk wrote:
I have been using raspberry PIs for more than 10 years. Simple, cheap and easy to use. The PI also supports HDMI CEC (to allow you to use your TV remote to control the PI's interface) The PI is fanless super quiet and comes with loads of add-ons
On Sat, Sep 7, 2024 at 10:23 AM Jim Ruxton via talk <talk@gtalug.org <mailto:talk@gtalug.org>> wrote:
Wondering if a Raspberry Pi might be an option? Jim
On Sat, Sep 7, 2024, 1:16 a.m. Michael Galea via talk <talk@gtalug.org <mailto:talk@gtalug.org>> wrote:
Hi All, The latest software upgrade of my MythTv Frontend dropped support for my video card, so I guess its time to go shopping.
I would appreciate any recommendations for small form factor or mini PC style hardware.
I'm currently looking at a Beelink Mini S12 Pro Mini PC, Intel 12th Gen Alder Lake- N100(up to 3.4GHz), 16GB DDR4 RAM 500GB PCIe SSD which is going for $329 on Amazon. Has anyone had experience with this brand?
Thanks -- Michael Galea
--- Post to this mailing list talk@gtalug.org <mailto:talk@gtalug.org> Unsubscribe from this mailing list https://gtalug.org/mailman/ listinfo/talk <https://gtalug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk>
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-- Michael Galea
I hate top posting. I recommend only quoting what's relevant to your message. And quoting in chronological order. Putting the burden on the reader isn't a good idea in a mailing list (there are more readers than writers).
The latest software upgrade of my MythTv Frontend dropped support for my video card, so I guess its time to go shopping.
PS: For those interested, I restored my system by downgrading the kernel and nvidia drivers from sid back to stabe to testing, which involved an amount of brain salad surgery. After a number of hours of reinstalling packages, most everything is back.
This happened to me. I have an Nvidia GeForce GTX 650 and Fedora 40. - my NVidia card is no longer supported by current proprietary drivers - it is supported by "legacy" proprietary drivers - the Nouveau driver isn't good enough for some reason. It crashes when I have too many browser pages. - I wish to switch to Wayland - the legacy proprietary driver won't work with Wayland Is that what's going on for you? I hate hours of brain salad surgery because I make too many mistakes.
D. Hugh Redelmeier via talk said on Sun, 8 Sep 2024 01:55:12 -0400 (EDT)
I hate top posting. I recommend only quoting what's relevant to your message. And quoting in chronological order. Putting the burden on the reader isn't a good idea in a mailing list (there are more readers than writers).
Thank you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Top posting with full quoted text retention is for CYA in business situations. Mailing lists are a collaborative mind meld like would be conducted around a table if we were in person. Around a table replies certainly don't come before earlier statements, and if you had to rehash every single bit of the conversation just to make an additional point, progress would be impeded by more than an order of magnitude. SteveT Steve Litt http://444domains.com
D. Hugh Redelmeier via talk wrote on 2024-09-07 22:55:
I hate top posting.
Likewise. This form of poor etiquette is encouraged on mobile devices when replies are quoted entirely, then folded behind an accordion-like expanding section. Another poor behaviour foisted upon the world by mobile device usage is telling the world something like "Sent from my iPhone". At best, no one cares, at worst it's subtle spamming on behalf of the device manufacturer / app dev. I find it unreasonably bothersome for some reason. I think it's the spamminess of it. Especially egregious on a techie mailing list, IMHO. /rant over rb
On Sun, Sep 8, 2024 at 4:26 PM Ron / BCLUG via talk <talk@gtalug.org> wrote:
D. Hugh Redelmeier via talk wrote on 2024-09-07 22:55:
I hate top posting.
Likewise.
This form of poor etiquette is encouraged on mobile devices when replies are quoted entirely, then folded behind an accordion-like expanding section.
As I have found myself noting more and more these days; My kids despise using email for anything not work related, and my grandkids don't know what email is. There are multiple reasons for this, and this thread hits upon one of the worst culprits. As a medium for interactive conversations, mail just sucks. It's now mainly used for one way blasts of information, roughly a tenth of which is actually useful to me. Much is spam, but even more is recognizable stuff from which I'm loath to unsubscribe lesty I actually miss that useful one in a hundred. As a result I check email far less frequently than I used to. As so many better alternatives exist right now, interactive use of email has IMO devolved into the domain of old farts running on inertia and those without easy access to the alternatives. Slack and Teams (and their FOSS doppelganger, MatterMost) have taken over at most businesses and online platforms for personal use abound, from Slash to Reddit to Discord and well beyond. GTALUG already has a lightly-used Discord server <https://discord.gg/NxNrveQh> and if demand existed we could probably set up Nextcloud Talk for clat mode as we now use for video conferences. Most chat systems have quoting, threading, diversionary conversations (like this one) handled nicely. Quoting functions generally are opt-in and encourage limiting what you quote to the stuff directly relevant to your new contribution. The "forums" component of my current mail is now down to GTALUG and ICANN. Everything else interactive has moved elsewhere, where etiquette issues are relegated to content and not how much historical crap you have to delete from a message before sending. - Evan
On 2024-09-08 01:55, D. Hugh Redelmeier via talk wrote:
The latest software upgrade of my MythTv Frontend dropped support for my video card, so I guess its time to go shopping.
This happened to me. I have an Nvidia GeForce GTX 650 and Fedora 40.
- my NVidia card is no longer supported by current proprietary drivers
- it is supported by "legacy" proprietary drivers
- the Nouveau driver isn't good enough for some reason. It crashes when I have too many browser pages.
- I wish to switch to Wayland
- the legacy proprietary driver won't work with Wayland
Is that what's going on for you?
No, I have an older card. a GT 350. For years I have been using the nvidia-legacy-390xx series of 'old' nvidia drivers. But after a recent upgrade I had no graphical support after boot. I had an nvidia kernel module, but glx couldn't find support for my video card. Later, I saw some evidence that support for my card was being dropped out the legacy support, so I am guessing that is what happened.
I hate hours of brain salad surgery because I make too many mistakes. --- Post to this mailing list talk@gtalug.org Unsubscribe from this mailing list https://gtalug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
-- Michael Galea
On 2024-09-09 12:26, Michael Galea via talk wrote:
This happened to me. I have an Nvidia GeForce GTX 650 and Fedora 40.
- my NVidia card is no longer supported by current proprietary drivers
- it is supported by "legacy" proprietary drivers [snip] No, I have an older card. a GT 350. For years I have been using the nvidia-legacy-390xx series of 'old' nvidia drivers. But after a recent upgrade I had no graphical support after boot. I had an nvidia kernel module, but glx couldn't find support for my video card. Later, I saw some evidence that support for my card was being dropped out the legacy support, so I am guessing that is what happened.
It is one of the reasons to be very hesitant to apply "updates" to a running system. You never know what is going to break or change in a negative way. I still need to downgrade Thunderbird, and report a loss of a function in the most recent version of LibreOffice. If Nvidia has dropped support for the GT 350 I will be having a problem in the not too distant future. I'm using a GeForce GTX 1050 which is much older card. I use the proprietary nvidia 545.29.06 driver. Which version is dropping GT 350 and older? -- Cheers! Kevin. https://www.patreon.com/KevinCozens | "Nerds make the shiny things that | distract the mouth-breathers, and Owner of Elecraft K2 #2172 | that's why we're powerful" #include <disclaimer/favourite> | --Chris Hardwick
Kevin Cozens via talk said on Tue, 10 Sep 2024 15:17:44 -0400
On 2024-09-09 12:26, Michael Galea via talk wrote:
This happened to me. I have an Nvidia GeForce GTX 650 and Fedora 40.
- my NVidia card is no longer supported by current proprietary drivers
- it is supported by "legacy" proprietary drivers [snip] No, I have an older card. a GT 350. For years I have been using the nvidia-legacy-390xx series of 'old' nvidia drivers. But after a recent upgrade I had no graphical support after boot. I had an nvidia kernel module, but glx couldn't find support for my video card. Later, I saw some evidence that support for my card was being dropped out the legacy support, so I am guessing that is what happened.
It is one of the reasons to be very hesitant to apply "updates" to a running system. You never know what is going to break or change in a negative way. I still need to downgrade Thunderbird, and report a loss of a function in the most recent version of LibreOffice.
Updates must be applied to running systems for security reasons and so that one has libraries young enough to work with various applications. The real blame is nVidia, who won't release their API specifications. I never use nVidia. SteveT Steve Litt http://444domains.com
On 2024-09-10 15:17, Kevin Cozens via talk wrote:
On 2024-09-09 12:26, Michael Galea via talk wrote:
This happened to me. I have an Nvidia GeForce GTX 650 and Fedora 40.
- my NVidia card is no longer supported by current proprietary drivers
- it is supported by "legacy" proprietary drivers [snip] No, I have an older card. a GT 350. For years I have been using the nvidia-legacy-390xx series of 'old' nvidia drivers. But after a recent upgrade I had no graphical support after boot. I had an nvidia kernel module, but glx couldn't find support for my video card. Later, I saw some evidence that support for my card was being dropped out the legacy support, so I am guessing that is what happened.
It is one of the reasons to be very hesitant to apply "updates" to a running system. You never know what is going to break or change in a negative way. I still need to downgrade Thunderbird, and report a loss of a function in the most recent version of LibreOffice.
If Nvidia has dropped support for the GT 350 I will be having a problem in the not too distant future. I'm using a GeForce GTX 1050 which is much older card. I use the proprietary nvidia 545.29.06 driver. Which version is dropping GT 350 and older?
You may be OK. I was using the debian package nvidia-legacy-390xx-driver version 390.157-8. The documentation at https://packages.debian.org/sid/nvidia-legacy-390xx-driver contains a list of drivers for which will not be supported going forward. My card is on that list, but GTX 1050 was not. -- Michael Galea
From: Michael Galea via talk <talk@gtalug.org>
You may be OK. I was using the debian package nvidia-legacy-390xx-driver version 390.157-8. The documentation at https://packages.debian.org/sid/nvidia-legacy-390xx-driver contains a list of drivers for which will not be supported going forward. My card is on that list, but GTX 1050 was not.
I cannot find the string "350" on that page. Googling finds very few hits for "GT 350". Just what, exactly, is your card? (I wondered whether nouveau supports it but withought a better description, it is hard to tell.)
On 2024-09-10 21:53, D. Hugh Redelmeier via talk wrote:
From: Michael Galea via talk <talk@gtalug.org>
You may be OK. I was using the debian package nvidia-legacy-390xx-driver version 390.157-8. The documentation at https://packages.debian.org/sid/nvidia-legacy-390xx-driver contains a list of drivers for which will not be supported going forward. My card is on that list, but GTX 1050 was not.
I cannot find the string "350" on that page.
Googling finds very few hits for "GT 350".
Just what, exactly, is your card?
(I wondered whether nouveau supports it but withought a better description, it is hard to tell.) --- Sorry about that. I have a GeForce GT 520 [GF119]
-- Michael Galea
From: Michael Galea via talk <talk@gtalug.org>
I have a GeForce GT 520 [GF119]
It seems that Nouveau should support this hardware. <https://nouveau.freedesktop.org/CodeNames.html#NVC0> I don't actually know how to switch between Nouveau (NV) and the Nvidia legacy legacy driver. I don't know if Nouveau performs well enough for you. I guess you could test from a live USB system -- that way you would not mess up your current system.
On 2024-09-11 15:31, D. Hugh Redelmeier via talk wrote:
From: Michael Galea via talk <talk@gtalug.org>
I have a GeForce GT 520 [GF119]
It seems that Nouveau should support this hardware. <https://nouveau.freedesktop.org/CodeNames.html#NVC0>
I don't actually know how to switch between Nouveau (NV) and the Nvidia legacy legacy driver.
I don't know if Nouveau performs well enough for you.
I guess you could test from a live USB system -- that way you would not mess up your current system. During the heat of the battle, I did try nouveau, but without success. I didn't do much debugging though as I have had pretty poor results with nouveau in the past. At that point I downgraded the kernel, downgraded the nvidia-legacy source and got the system up and running again.
I have currently put the kernel and nvidia source packages on 'hold', a method in Debian that prevents their being upgraded. But that is only going to hold the tide back for so long. I have gotten 10 years out of this hardware, it overheats in the summer, I have to re-encode some HEVC content and I want something small and power efficient instead. -- Michael Galea
Michael Galea via talk said on Wed, 11 Sep 2024 18:24:27 -0400
On 2024-09-11 15:31, D. Hugh Redelmeier via talk wrote:
From: Michael Galea via talk <talk@gtalug.org>
I have a GeForce GT 520 [GF119]
It seems that Nouveau should support this hardware. <https://nouveau.freedesktop.org/CodeNames.html#NVC0>
I don't actually know how to switch between Nouveau (NV) and the Nvidia legacy legacy driver.
I don't know if Nouveau performs well enough for you.
I guess you could test from a live USB system -- that way you would not mess up your current system. During the heat of the battle, I did try nouveau, but without success. I didn't do much debugging though as I have had pretty poor results with nouveau in the past. At that point I downgraded the kernel, downgraded the nvidia-legacy source and got the system up and running again.
I have currently put the kernel and nvidia source packages on 'hold', a method in Debian that prevents their being upgraded. But that is only going to hold the tide back for so long. I have gotten 10 years out of this hardware, it overheats in the summer, I have to re-encode some HEVC content and I want something small and power efficient instead.
My experience is that nVidia often conflicts with Linux, regardless of what driver set you use. I just stay away from nVidia, and will continue to until they reveal their API to Open Source authors. Radeons have always worked just fine for me. SteveT Steve Litt http://444domains.com
I have a V3 that works very well. But I can confirm that the HEVC content can be hit or miss with an older model I am planning on upgrading to a v5 for 4K support as the V3 is 1080p only. On Sat, Sep 7, 2024 at 8:48 PM Michael Galea via talk <talk@gtalug.org> wrote:
I did consider the PI when both v3 and v4 came out. The V3 was a no go from the start, and with V4 I noticed stuttering and tearing. I wonder why your experience seems to be better than mine.
One thing Ive noticed, and have to fix, is that HEVC encoded content seems to be burdening my existing CPU, often to the point where it overheats and shuts down.
As to the CEC, I always just installed a wireless keyboard and used that to navigate Mythtv.
PS: For those interested, I restored my system by downgrading the kernel and nvidia drivers from sid back to stabe to testing, which involved an amount of brain salad surgery. After a number of hours of reinstalling packages, most everything is back.
On 2024-09-07 12:20, Ansar Mohammed via talk wrote:
I have been using raspberry PIs for more than 10 years. Simple, cheap and easy to use. The PI also supports HDMI CEC (to allow you to use your TV remote to control the PI's interface) The PI is fanless super quiet and comes with loads of add-ons
On Sat, Sep 7, 2024 at 10:23 AM Jim Ruxton via talk <talk@gtalug.org <mailto:talk@gtalug.org>> wrote:
Wondering if a Raspberry Pi might be an option? Jim
On Sat, Sep 7, 2024, 1:16 a.m. Michael Galea via talk <talk@gtalug.org <mailto:talk@gtalug.org>> wrote:
Hi All, The latest software upgrade of my MythTv Frontend dropped support for my video card, so I guess its time to go shopping.
I would appreciate any recommendations for small form factor or mini PC style hardware.
I'm currently looking at a Beelink Mini S12 Pro Mini PC, Intel 12th Gen Alder Lake- N100(up to 3.4GHz), 16GB DDR4 RAM 500GB PCIe SSD which is going for $329 on Amazon. Has anyone had experience with this brand?
Thanks -- Michael Galea
--- Post to this mailing list talk@gtalug.org <mailto: talk@gtalug.org> Unsubscribe from this mailing list https://gtalug.org/mailman/ listinfo/talk <https://gtalug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk>
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-- Michael Galea --- Post to this mailing list talk@gtalug.org Unsubscribe from this mailing list https://gtalug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
From: Michael Galea via talk <talk@gtalug.org>
I did consider the PI when both v3 and v4 came out. The V3 was a no go from the start, and with V4 I noticed stuttering and tearing. I wonder why your experience seems to be better than mine.
RPi 4 should be fine: it has a hardware HEVC decoder. It handles up to 4k @ 60 Hz. Of course your software might not be using it. You might need to enable it at boot. See this link for enabling the hardware. It's up to Myth code to use it. <https://forums.raspberrypi.com/viewtopic.php?t=323303> (Note: I've never done this. I just google.)
One thing Ive noticed, and have to fix, is that HEVC encoded content seems to be burdening my existing CPU, often to the point where it overheats and shuts down.
I think "Existing CPU" = some x86 PC plus an old Nvidia card. Am I correct? Intel has "Quick Sync Video". That seems to be hardware assist for some CoDecs. <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intel_Quick_Sync_Video> Newer processors have more CoDecs. I imagine that it is well exploited for playback. HEVC decoding was part of Quick Sync for some time. I am even less familiar with AMD's equivalent. According to Wikipedia, the names to look for are Unified Video Decoder and later Video Core Next.
From: Michael Galea via talk <talk@gtalug.org>
The latest software upgrade of my MythTv Frontend dropped support for my video card, so I guess its time to go shopping.
I would appreciate any recommendations for small form factor or mini PC style hardware.
I'm currently looking at a Beelink Mini S12 Pro Mini PC, Intel 12th Gen Alder Lake- N100(up to 3.4GHz), 16GB DDR4 RAM 500GB PCIe SSD which is going for $329 on Amazon. Has anyone had experience with this brand?
That seems expensive for an N100 system. This listing is currently $255.30 (still expensive): <https://www.amazon.ca/Beelink-U57-Processor-256G-Performance/dp/B0879KKTCB/ref=sr_1_5> This is another brand from the same company ($249 - $30 coupon): <https://www.amazon.ca/TRIGKEY-Mini-PC-Generation-Processor/dp/B0C15GD3V8/ref=sr_1_4_sspa> I'm kind of spoiled by bargains I got last year. For example, I got a Bee-link N95 system for something like $120 + tax. An N100 should be fine for this purpose, but remember that it is kind of a successor to the Atom microarchitecture. I'm kind of inclinded to Ryzen Bee-links, but Amazon doesn't seem to have bargains at the moment (they did have some yesterday). How much do you care about video resolution? Do check, but I suspect that the limit of the N100 is 3840x2160 @ 60 Hz with 8 bits per colour in each pixel. Lots of video devices support High Dynamic Range, meaning more bits of colour per pixel. If there is a Myth frontend for Android, there are cheap boxes that have better video features: lower power, better video, CEC.
On 2024-09-07 01:15, Michael Galea via talk wrote:
Hi All, The latest software upgrade of my MythTv Frontend dropped support for my video card, so I guess its time to go shopping.
I would appreciate any recommendations for small form factor or mini PC style hardware.
I'm currently looking at a Beelink Mini S12 Pro Mini PC, Intel 12th Gen Alder Lake- N100(up to 3.4GHz), 16GB DDR4 RAM 500GB PCIe SSD which is going for $329 on Amazon. Has anyone had experience with this brand? I have a mythtv front-end running on a RP 4-B. It is OK for my 1080 TV so long as I don't try to run h265 encoded videos.
-- Alvin Starr || land: (647)478-6285 Netvel Inc. || home: (905)513-7688 alvin@netvel.net ||
On Sat, 7 Sep 2024 22:46:40 -0400 Alvin Starr via talk <talk@gtalug.org> wrote:
On 2024-09-07 01:15, Michael Galea via talk wrote:
I would appreciate any recommendations for small form factor or mini PC style hardware. I'm currently looking at a Beelink Mini S12 Pro Mini PC, Intel 12th Gen Alder Lake- N100(up to 3.4GHz), 16GB DDR4 RAM 500GB PCIe SSD which is going for $329 on Amazon. Has anyone had experience with this brand? I have a mythtv front-end running on a RP 4-B. It is OK for my 1080 TV so long as I don't try to run h265 encoded videos.
+1 I do not have any h265 encoded media but what is the issue? (is it slow or choppy or does it not work at all? - the rb4-b specs says it supports hevc?)
participants (10)
-
ac -
Alvin Starr -
Ansar Mohammed -
D. Hugh Redelmeier -
Evan Leibovitch -
Jim Ruxton -
Kevin Cozens -
Michael Galea -
Ron / BCLUG -
Steve Litt