Hi all, It's 2020 and a long time since Shaw bought Wind Mobile and renamed it to Freedom. So I wonder if it's worth another look. Prices are as always aggressive but questions remain about speed and coverage. The reason I want a new phone plan is because I'm experimenting with a new phone on which I've just installed GrapheneOS; more than just another Android ROM, it's touted as being one of the most privacy-focused phones one can have. Google-free, of course, beyond what's in AOSP, and two different app stores to replace Google Play. Does anyone here have experience with either Freedom Mobile or GrapheneOS? Any answers are much appreciated. If there's interest I'll be happy to talk about my experiences with GrapheneOS at a future GTALUG meeting. Evan Leibovitch, Toronto Canada @evanleibovitch / @el56
On Sat, 31 Oct 2020 at 18:41, Evan Leibovitch via talk <talk@gtalug.org> wrote:
Hi all,
It's 2020 and a long time since Shaw bought Wind Mobile and renamed it to Freedom. So I wonder if it's worth another look. Prices are as always aggressive but questions remain about speed and coverage.
The reason I want a new phone plan is because I'm experimenting with a new phone on which I've just installed GrapheneOS; more than just another Android ROM, it's touted as being one of the most privacy-focused phones one can have. Google-free, of course, beyond what's in AOSP, and two different app stores to replace Google Play.
Does anyone here have experience with either Freedom Mobile or GrapheneOS? Any answers are much appreciated. If there's interest I'll be happy to talk about my experiences with GrapheneOS at a future GTALUG meeting.
I have been on Wind/Freedom for a good number of years now; I had made an abortive attempt quite a while back, and initially gave up, as I grabbed a SIM card, and did a walkaround at my office, only to discover that the instant I walked in the front door of the office building, all reception disappeared. At that point, apparently the nearby towers were in such a location that reception was entirely blocked within the building. A couple of years later, I retried with better success (they had been busy adding more and better cellular towers in the interim), and have been pleased enough with them since. There's sections of the 401 between cities where one must piggyback onto other carriers, but that's been livable for my purposes. Dodgy reception used to be a thing; seems to have improved. I had never heard of GrapheneOS; interesting that it *only* runs on recent-ish Google Pixel phones. As the battery on my OP5 starts to age, I suspect I'll be looking at a Pixel in the not too distant future, certainly of interest to hear what's up with alternative phone "firmware" these days, particularly as it's difficult for them to keep up with hardware evolution. CM and LineageOS had history of supporting lots of devices; Lineage has been hurting in that regard <https://download.lineageos.org/> They used to support a wide variety of Samsung, but no models later than about 2017 have been supported, no LG past about 2016, and such. If there's reason to expect better from GrapheneOS, that would sure be nice. (That tells you some of the kinds of questions I'd hope might get answered ;-) ) -- When confronted by a difficult problem, solve it by reducing it to the question, "How would the Lone Ranger handle this?"
On Sat, Oct 31, 2020, 7:14 PM Christopher Browne via talk, <talk@gtalug.org> wrote:
On Sat, 31 Oct 2020 at 18:41, Evan Leibovitch via talk <talk@gtalug.org> wrote:
Hi all,
It's 2020 and a long time since Shaw bought Wind Mobile and renamed it to Freedom. So I wonder if it's worth another look. Prices are as always aggressive but questions remain about speed and coverage.
The reason I want a new phone plan is because I'm experimenting with a new phone on which I've just installed GrapheneOS; more than just another Android ROM, it's touted as being one of the most privacy-focused phones one can have. Google-free, of course, beyond what's in AOSP, and two different app stores to replace Google Play.
Does anyone here have experience with either Freedom Mobile or GrapheneOS? Any answers are much appreciated. If there's interest I'll be happy to talk about my experiences with GrapheneOS at a future GTALUG meeting.
I have been on Wind/Freedom for a good number of years now; I had made an abortive attempt quite a while back, and initially gave up, as I grabbed a SIM card, and did a walkaround at my office, only to discover that the instant I walked in the front door of the office building, all reception disappeared. At that point, apparently the nearby towers were in such a location that reception was entirely blocked within the building.
A couple of years later, I retried with better success (they had been busy adding more and better cellular towers in the interim), and have been pleased enough with them since. There's sections of the 401 between cities where one must piggyback onto other carriers, but that's been livable for my purposes. Dodgy reception used to be a thing; seems to have improved.
I had never heard of GrapheneOS; interesting that it *only* runs on recent-ish Google Pixel phones. As the battery on my OP5 starts to age, I suspect I'll be looking at a Pixel in the not too distant future, certainly of interest to hear what's up with alternative phone "firmware" these days, particularly as it's difficult for them to keep up with hardware evolution. CM and LineageOS had history of supporting lots of devices; Lineage has been hurting in that regard <https://download.lineageos.org/> They used to support a wide variety of Samsung, but no models later than about 2017 have been supported, no LG past about 2016, and such. If there's reason to expect better from GrapheneOS, that would sure be nice. (That tells you some of the kinds of questions I'd hope might get answered ;-) )
I had a similar experience with somewhat sketchy Freedom service. While the geographic range had improved somewhat over time, the deal breaker for me came when I was running a custom "Pixel Experience" rom on my Nexus 6. Somehow the settings were changed so that all inbound calls went directly to voice mail, which I had not set up. Customer service said I'd made that change from my phone when I enabled phone over wi-fi when that was available instead of LTE over the sim and they couldn't change it back. I even reverted to the original distribution OS but no joy on incoming calls after that glitch. I think I'd be very careful with a Freedom plan and non stock device roms. I had lineage and carbon and a couple of others working for a time on my Nexus, but the Pixel Experience rom out performed them in battery life and overall useability. It was the fact that even reverting to the original OS release, my inbound calls couldn't get to me, that I dropped the service in favour of a Voip app over wi fi and simple call only cell plan. This may have been just a glitch in my own custom rom, but the lack of support and even understanding of the issue by Freedom is why I dropped that service. My rom works fine for inbound calls on another sim carrier, so while you might not have similar issues with yours, I wouldn't count on any level of service from Freedom for a non stock item. I notice in the GraphineOS downloads the pixel 2 walleye release is supported. Thats the Pixel core base I'm running on my Nexus now, so I'd be interested in hearing about your install experience, to see if I can further kludge/extend the life of my own Nexus. --
When confronted by a difficult problem, solve it by reducing it to the question, "How would the Lone Ranger handle this?" --- Post to this mailing list talk@gtalug.org Unsubscribe from this mailing list https://gtalug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
Russell
“Th’ newspaper does ivrything f’r us. It runs th’ polis foorce an’ th’ banks, commands th’ milishy, controls th’ ligislachure, baptizes th’ young, marries th’ foolish, comforts th’ afflicted, afflicts th’ comfortable, buries th’ dead an’ roasts thim aftherward.” F. P. Dunne
Thanks for the answers. Very helpful. I think I'm going to just do a new $19/month minimum plan to check out Freedom's coverage. Thanks to warnings here I won't consider moving my existing service over yet. The OpenSignal app on my phone says that while connectivity is good where I am, speeds are almost a quarter of my current provider (Koodo/Telus). Freedom is making some noise about 5G and I believe they have either bought or are going after some 5G spectrum. But I don't know what to make of it yet.
I had never heard of GrapheneOS; interesting that it *only* runs on
recent-ish Google Pixel phones. As the battery on my OP5 starts to age, I suspect I'll be looking at a Pixel in the not too distant future, certainly of interest to hear what's up with alternative phone "firmware" these days, particularly as it's difficult for them to keep up with hardware evolution. CM and LineageOS had history of supporting lots of devices; Lineage has been hurting in that regard <https://download.lineageos.org/> They used to support a wide variety of Samsung, but no models later than about 2017 have been supported, no LG past about 2016, and such. If there's reason to expect better from GrapheneOS, that would sure be nice. (That tells you some of the kinds of questions I'd hope might get answered ;-) )
"Why just Pixel" is answered in the FAQ <https://grapheneos.org/faq#future-devices> and in more detail on Reddit <https://www.reddit.com/r/GrapheneOS/comments/htwm9t/why_is_grapheneos_supported_only_on_pixels/>. The main reason that I can extract is this is not your garden variety XDA alternate ROM, and not every phone can be locked down as they demand. GrapheneOS replaces boot and firmware code and requires you to relock the bootloader at the end of the installation; that's something I haven't seen before. Customer service said I'd made that change from my phone when I enabled
phone over wi-fi when that was available instead of LTE over the sim and they couldn't change it back. I even reverted to the original distribution OS but no joy on incoming calls after that glitch.
Unlike Koodo, Freedom has some brick-and-mortar stores and I hope the one nearby may be more helpful than a call centre. That may be wishful thinking.
I notice in the GraphineOS downloads the pixel 2 walleye release is supported. Thats the Pixel core base I'm running on my Nexus now, so I'd be interested in hearing about your install experience, to see if I can further kludge/extend the life of my own Nexus.
Because of the issues above (they replace far more than the system and user partitions) I'd be careful. I think they're looking for exact hardware matches, and note that there's no support for the Pixel 1 and only "legacy" support for the Pixel 2. I recently bought a used Pixel 3a for $200 just to try Graphene. This is part of a personal experiment to see how private I can get with a privacy-focused phone, no Google apps and a new Protonmail alter-ego email account just made. Installation was fast and flawless from my Kubuntu box. it doesn't require TWRP or use recovery mode; everything is done using the "fastboot" comment and fastboot mode on the phone. Challenges so far are in setting up notifications, and to find apps that don't require Google Play Services to run. Still, there are some interesting finds, such as a hardened Chromium-based browser called Vanadium <https://github.com/GrapheneOS/Vanadium> (which is more lightweight than Bromium because it can take advantage of a hardened OS). Users are warned that Firefox is way too insecure <https://grapheneos.org/usage#web-browsing> and should be avoided. I haven't yet set up email or calendar, but Signal and Telegram work fine. A few games that I've tried don't work. But there are two great apps, NewPipe and Aurora Store, that anonymize access to YouTube and the Google Play Store respectively. So far it's a battery beast, lasting many days on a charge. While it's not checking email or calendar updates yet, it's also not spending any effort telling Google where I am or what I'm doing. It's an interesting project to be sure. - Evan
On Sun, 1 Nov 2020 at 09:57, Evan Leibovitch via talk <talk@gtalug.org> wrote:
… my current provider (Koodo/Telus).
ah, no: stick with Koodo. Everything about them is better. The only reason I'm with Freedom is that they have better US prices, and Catherine (used to) travel there a lot. This is now a legacy service that they may not offer on new plans.C's plan dates back to Wind days, and had voicemail as an expensive add-on.
Unlike Koodo, Freedom has some brick-and-mortar stores and I hope the one nearby may be more helpful than a call centre. That may be wishful thinking.
Most of the stores are pretty terrible, if they're keeping them open at all. I've only had one fantastic customer interaction at a Freedom store (Eglinton Square) and a number of entirely terrible ones. B&M is effectively dead: it's webchat and courier service for the foreseeable future. cheers, Stewart
On Sun, 1 Nov 2020 at 10:20, Stewart Russell via talk <talk@gtalug.org> wrote:
On Sun, 1 Nov 2020 at 09:57, Evan Leibovitch via talk <talk@gtalug.org> wrote:
… my current provider (Koodo/Telus).
ah, no: stick with Koodo.
My main phone, absolutely, will not change. The plan is to get a prepaid second line from Freedom for the GrapheneOS phone, Freedom has a special of UnlTalk/UnlText/1.5GB for $19/mo. Easy to cancel. Don't need voicemail. I just need the minimum for the Graphene phone, and Koodo won't look at me for a second line at less than $25. I'm also curious to see what their in-the-subway reception is like. The store I'm going to is Steeles and Dufferin, I'll let you know what the experience is there. - Evan
Followup: The Freedom shop person was pretty helpful. and the store took COVID precautions seriously.
From my home I get full bars on the phone and fast.com reports a 39Mbps connection, within 15% of my in-home wifi.
So far so good. After a year it goes from 19/mo to 24/mo but I have no contract and can get out any time. - Evan
On Sunday, 1 November 2020, Evan Leibovitch <evan@telly.org> wrote:
Thanks for the answers. Very helpful.
Thanks for the update. I don't need a new device just yet, but I was eyeing Pixel after seeing much better battery performance with the Experience rom on my Nexus 6.
I think I'm going to just do a new $19/month minimum plan to check out Freedom's coverage. Thanks to warnings here I won't consider moving my existing service over yet. The OpenSignal app on my phone says that while connectivity is good where I am, speeds are almost a quarter of my current provider (Koodo/Telus). Freedom is making some noise about 5G and I believe they have either bought or are going after some 5G spectrum. But I don't know what to make of it yet.
I had never heard of GrapheneOS; interesting that it *only* runs on
recent-ish Google Pixel phones. As the battery on my OP5 starts to age, I suspect I'll be looking at a Pixel in the not too distant future, certainly of interest to hear what's up with alternative phone "firmware" these days, particularly as it's difficult for them to keep up with hardware evolution. CM and LineageOS had history of supporting lots of devices; Lineage has been hurting in that regard <https://download.lineageos.org/> They used to support a wide variety of Samsung, but no models later than about 2017 have been supported, no LG past about 2016, and such. If there's reason to expect better from GrapheneOS, that would sure be nice. (That tells you some of the kinds of questions I'd hope might get answered ;-) )
"Why just Pixel" is answered in the FAQ <https://grapheneos.org/faq#future-devices> and in more detail on Reddit <https://www.reddit.com/r/GrapheneOS/comments/htwm9t/why_is_grapheneos_supported_only_on_pixels/>. The main reason that I can extract is this is not your garden variety XDA alternate ROM, and not every phone can be locked down as they demand. GrapheneOS replaces boot and firmware code and requires you to relock the bootloader at the end of the installation; that's something I haven't seen before.
This relocking looks like a nod towards secure boot and SElinux, which I'm still grappling with, mostly in understanding audit and policy management.
Customer service said I'd made that change from my phone when I enabled
phone over wi-fi when that was available instead of LTE over the sim and they couldn't change it back. I even reverted to the original distribution OS but no joy on incoming calls after that glitch.
Unlike Koodo, Freedom has some brick-and-mortar stores and I hope the one nearby may be more helpful than a call centre. That may be wishful thinking.
I notice in the GraphineOS downloads the pixel 2 walleye release is supported. Thats the Pixel core base I'm running on my Nexus now, so I'd be interested in hearing about your install experience, to see if I can further kludge/extend the life of my own Nexus.
Because of the issues above (they replace far more than the system and user partitions) I'd be careful. I think they're looking for exact hardware matches, and note that there's no support for the Pixel 1 and only "legacy" support for the Pixel 2.
I recently bought a used Pixel 3a for $200 just to try Graphene. This is part of a personal experiment to see how private I can get with a privacy-focused phone, no Google apps and a new Protonmail alter-ego email account just made.
Out of interest what android is your pixel built on Android 9 or 10. I figure about 4 to 6 more months before the battery starts to fade on my Nexus. I just checked Freedom's offerings and a budget 4a is not all that bad at $480 outright and less with a plan but this is is a new and interesting twist. Graphines sandboxing of RF is a laudable improvement and I think I learned my lesson on carrier issues relating to VoIP and VoWiFi on the Experience rom of the Nexus. Part of my past issues with Freedom were my own switching sim cards between devices and some miscommunications but, as a day to day they were fine for me in the city and I'd use one of their plans again. I told staff that when I cancelled but I forgot to mention that to you.
Installation was fast and flawless from my Kubuntu box. it doesn't require TWRP or use recovery mode; everything is done using the "fastboot" comment and fastboot mode on the phone.
Challenges so far are in setting up notifications, and to find apps that don't require Google Play Services to run. Still, there are some interesting finds, such as a hardened Chromium-based browser called Vanadium <https://github.com/GrapheneOS/Vanadium> (which is more lightweight than Bromium because it can take advantage of a hardened OS). Users are warned that Firefox is way too insecure <https://grapheneos.org/usage#web-browsing> and should be avoided. I haven't yet set up email or calendar, but Signal and Telegram work fine. A few games that I've tried don't work. But there are two great apps, NewPipe and Aurora Store, that anonymize access to YouTube and the Google Play Store respectively.
So far it's a battery beast, lasting many days on a charge. While it's not checking email or calendar updates yet, it's also not spending any effort telling Google where I am or what I'm doing.
It's an interesting project to be sure.
I was actually astonished at how much better my Nexus performed with the Pixel Experience rom. So much more So when the rom dissapeared from XDA soon after the sale of motorola assets to lenovo. I had the rom on two devices one moto and one leno until I fully fractured the screen on moto. The leno is still going strong.
You have me window shopping now. Could you clarify ... when you say not checking email, do you mean not setup yet and not that the client app does not work? I skimmed the keystore info and other x certificate generation tools on Graphines site and a Pixel looks like a good next choice alongside Graphines take on the O$I stack.
- Evan
Russell
On Tue, 3 Nov 2020 at 05:51, Russell Reiter <rreiter91@gmail.com> wrote:
I recently bought a used Pixel 3a for $200 just to try Graphene. This is
part of a personal experiment to see how private I can get with a privacy-focused phone, no Google apps and a new Protonmail alter-ego email account just made.
Out of interest what android is your pixel built on Android 9 or 10. I figure about 4 to 6 more months before the battery starts to fade on my Nexus. I just checked Freedom's offerings and a budget 4a is not all that bad at $480 outright and less with a plan but this is is a new and interesting twist.
I actually don't recall what the Pixel 3a was running before I loaded Graphene because I wiped it almost immediately. The GrapheneOS installed now is based on Android 11.
You have me window shopping now. Could you clarify ... when you say not checking email, do you mean not setup yet and not that the client app does not work?
I mean that I'm still searching for the right client. I have installed K9 which I'm sure will work but haven't set it up. The ProtonMail app works fine but doesn't play nicely with other services. I *could* install something that doesn't use Google Play Services and frankly many apps don't need it. However, an interesting thing about the Aurora app store is that it reports on how many trackers are embedded into each Android app, talking not just to GAFA but also to ad networks and others. So I'm trying to find apps that, if not FOSS themselves, minimize the embedded trackers. Stuff like Waze installs but refuses to work and won't say what's missing that it's looking for. So there's a good front end for Open Street Maps. The journey continues.... - Evan
Btw, I had coverage from Freedom in the tunnel between Pioneer Village and York University. I used my data only plan to make a VoIP call with Fongo. The communication wasn't stellar, but it was passable. Ivan.
On 2020-10-31 6:40 p.m., Evan Leibovitch via talk wrote:
Does anyone here have experience with either Freedom Mobile or GrapheneOS?
Freedom mobile user for a number of years. It's okay now in most of Toronto. Beware of roaming, though: go to the Kawarthas with data turned on, and you'll see a few dollars a day on your bill. Stewart
participants (6)
-
Christopher Browne -
Evan Leibovitch -
Ivan Avery Frey -
Russell Reiter -
Stewart C. Russell -
Stewart Russell