Hello! I've just been informed that "legacy authentication" is going to be disabled at the University of Toronto for my email account. Well, I suspected something like this was in the works when they adopted MS Outlook 365+ as the mail server, but it still isn't welcome. Up to now, I've been able to use mutt and getmail for all my needs; I run a daemon that picks up (and then deletes) email from a variety of servers (University of Toronto, GMail, and so on) onto a single computer. There I apply all the filters, spam protection, sorting into various inboxes, and so on. To read email I just ssh in from any computer anywhere and run mutt. All configurable with nice text-based scripts. The email files are automatically backed up and sychronized to other computers, too. When I'm out of town I have the mail be downloaded/deleteed manually, and I have full fallover capability, so if one machine is offline I can switch to another without any hiccups. But it looks like that is all going away, since Microsoft only supports what they call "modern" email clients, and on Linux only Thunderbird. I could switch. But then rather than the fetch-and-store model, which has worked fine over the years, I would either have to change to a view-in-a- browser model (and so have to be running a GUI locally and store all my email somewhere else out of my control), or chuck my university email account and set up something else. At the moment I'm really inclined to do the latter. I'll just set up some way of forwarding all my email to some text-based *NIX server somewhere that is happy to let me run scripts to deal with email. But maybe I'm not being fair to the former alternative. I have *no* experience with any of the "modern" email clients, and have been stubbornly clinging to the plain ASCII text as how email should work. Maybe there are perfectly reasonable email clients these days with powers I know nothing of. (I am currently teaching a few courses at UCLA and was forced to use their webmail system, run by Google, and I have to say I despise it: graphical for no good reason, with limited search/sort capabilities, threading of old messages not clearly visible, and so on.) Any advice, suggestions, hints? War stories? Ways to thwart the powers that be? Thanks in advance. -- Peter King peter.king@utoronto.ca Department of Philosophy 170 St. George Street #521 The University of Toronto (416)-946-3170 ofc Toronto, ON M5R 2M8 CANADA http://individual.utoronto.ca/pking/ ========================================================================= GPG keyID 0x7587EC42 (2B14 A355 46BC 2A16 D0BC 36F5 1FE6 D32A 7587 EC42) gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --recv-keys 7587EC42
On Thu, 3 Mar 2022 20:18:14 -0500 Peter King via talk <talk@gtalug.org> wrote:
Hello!
I've just been informed that "legacy authentication" is going to be disabled at the University of Toronto for my email account. Well, I suspected something like this was in the works when they adopted MS Outlook 365+ as the mail server, but it still isn't welcome.
Up to now, I've been able to use mutt and getmail for all my needs; I run a daemon that picks up (and then deletes) email from a variety of servers (University of Toronto, GMail, and so on) onto a single computer. There I apply all the filters, spam protection, sorting into various inboxes, and so on. To read email I just ssh in from any computer anywhere and run mutt. All configurable with nice text-based scripts. The email files are automatically backed up and sychronized to other computers, too. When I'm out of town I have the mail be downloaded/deleteed manually, and I have full fallover capability, so if one machine is offline I can switch to another without any hiccups. -- Peter King peter.king@utoronto.ca Department of Philosophy
Peter, I use the email client Sylpheed to access gmail among other things. I use POP to download email. I don't like leaving personal information up on the cloud. Sylpheed stores it email in MH format, just like mutt. -- Howard Gibson hgibson@eol.ca jhowardgibson@gmail.com http://home.eol.ca/~hgibson
On Thu, Mar 3, 2022 at 7:25 PM Howard Gibson via talk <talk@gtalug.org> wrote:
On Thu, 3 Mar 2022 20:18:14 -0500 Peter King via talk <talk@gtalug.org> wrote:
Hello!
I've just been informed that "legacy authentication" is going to be disabled at the University of Toronto for my email account. Well, I suspected something like this was in the works when they adopted MS Outlook 365+ as the mail server, but it still isn't welcome.
Up to now, I've been able to use mutt and getmail for all my needs; I run a daemon that picks up (and then deletes) email from a variety of servers (University of Toronto, GMail, and so on) onto a single computer. There I apply all the filters, spam protection, sorting into various inboxes, and so on. To read email I just ssh in from any computer anywhere and run mutt. All configurable with nice text-based scripts. The email files are automatically backed up and sychronized to other computers, too. When I'm out of town I have the mail be downloaded/deleteed manually, and I have full fallover capability, so if one machine is offline I can switch to another without any hiccups. -- Peter King peter.king@utoronto.ca Department of Philosophy
Peter,
I use the email client Sylpheed to access gmail among other things. I use POP to download email. I don't like leaving personal information up on the cloud. Sylpheed stores it email in MH format, just like mutt.
A long time mentor, no deceased, espoused Claws - - - which itself is a fork of Slypheed. IIRC Sylpheed is sorta 'long in the tooth' (OK it seems its sometimes called Slypheed-Claws - - - sorry). HTH
On 2022-03-03 8:18 p.m., Peter King via talk wrote:
I've just been informed that "legacy authentication" is going to be disabled at the University of Toronto for my email account. Well, I suspected something like this was in the works when they adopted MS Outlook 365+ as the mail server, but it still isn't welcome.
Actually, they're behind the times. Email, in general, is switching to OAuth2 for security reasons. If the server will work with Thunderbird, it will work with almost any IMAP (or POP3 if they're incompetent) client. Even if you go elsewhere, you'll likely run into the same thing. Both Google and Yahoo require OAuth2. Also, they'll probably require encrypted protocols, SMTPS and IMAPS. I have also used normal email apps with Exchange servers, as I do not like Outlook. It has some really DUMB "features". I haven't used Outlook 365. BTW, I also don't care for using a browser to read email.
On 2022-03-03 20:18, Peter King via talk wrote:
Hello!
I've just been informed that "legacy authentication" is going to be disabled at the University of Toronto for my email account. Well, I suspected something like this was in the works when they adopted MS Outlook 365+ as the mail server, but it still isn't welcome. Well, single password authentication is going away for good reason. Years ago (10+) I started forcing our email users to stop using POP and start using IMAP. Not because POP was bad but because the users did not know how to use it appropriately and they became a huge support headache. So I get pushing people away from POP to things like IMAP. [snip] (I am currently teaching a few courses at UCLA and was forced to use their webmail system, run by Google, and I have to say I despise it: graphical for no good reason, with limited search/sort capabilities, threading of old messages not clearly visible, and so on.)
Any advice, suggestions, hints? War stories? Ways to thwart the powers that be? Thanks in advance.
I also have a client who forces me to use gmail and I have enabled their imap service so that I can use thunderbird which is my mail reader of choice. Another tool I use with IMAP mail servers is imapsync. It allows you to copy content from one IMAP server to another. The man page also has a nice list of other IMAP backup/copy software. I use imapsync for archival of client email accounts and for moving email between old and new email accounts. It should be possible to sync your email using IMAP and then process it however you like. -- Alvin Starr || land: (647)478-6285 Netvel Inc. || Cell: (416)806-0133 alvin@netvel.net ||
On 2022-03-03 20:18, Peter King via talk wrote:
I've just been informed that "legacy authentication" is going to be disabled at the University of Toronto for my email account. Well, I suspected something like this was in the works when they adopted MS Outlook 365+ as the mail server, but it still isn't welcome.
Up to now, I've been able to use mutt and getmail for all my needs; [snip] But it looks like that is all going away, since Microsoft only supports what they call "modern" email clients, and on Linux only Thunderbird. It would be simpler for you to update your scripts to use the new authentication method instead of making some radical change(s) to how you handle email.
-- Cheers! Kevin. http://www.ve3syb.ca/ | "Nerds make the shiny things that https://www.patreon.com/KevinCozens | distract the mouth-breathers, and | that's why we're powerful" Owner of Elecraft K2 #2172 | #include <disclaimer/favourite> | --Chris Hardwick
I have the Thunderbird setting for getting pop and imap mail from microsloth, imap below. That might help you re-point your existing system --dave On 3/4/22 11:17, Kevin Cozens via talk wrote:
On 2022-03-03 20:18, Peter King via talk wrote:
I've just been informed that "legacy authentication" is going to be disabled at the University of Toronto for my email account. Well, I suspected something like this was in the works when they adopted MS Outlook 365+ as the mail server, but it still isn't welcome.
Up to now, I've been able to use mutt and getmail for all my needs; [snip] But it looks like that is all going away, since Microsoft only supports what they call "modern" email clients, and on Linux only Thunderbird. It would be simpler for you to update your scripts to use the new authentication method instead of making some radical change(s) to how you handle email.
-- David Collier-Brown, | Always do right. This will gratify System Programmer and Author | some people and astonish the rest dave.collier-brown@indexexchange.com | -- Mark Twain CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE AND DISCLAIMER : This telecommunication, including any and all attachments, contains confidential information intended only for the person(s) to whom it is addressed. Any dissemination, distribution, copying or disclosure is strictly prohibited and is not a waiver of confidentiality. If you have received this telecommunication in error, please notify the sender immediately by return electronic mail and delete the message from your inbox and deleted items folders. This telecommunication does not constitute an express or implied agreement to conduct transactions by electronic means, nor does it constitute a contract offer, a contract amendment or an acceptance of a contract offer. Contract terms contained in this telecommunication are subject to legal review and the completion of formal documentation and are not binding until same is confirmed in writing and has been signed by an authorized signatory.
Peter King via talk <talk@gtalug.org> writes: Hello,
Hello I've just been informed that "legacy authentication" is going to be disabled at the University of Toronto for my email account. Well, I suspected something like this was in the works when they adopted MS Outlook 365+ as the mail server, but it still isn't welcome.
I got the same surprise, but from Google. However, it looks like native Oauth2 support in fetchamail[1] is almost complete[1]. Here are some in some instructions for using Oauth2 with fetchmail and postfix: http://mmogilvi.users.sourceforge.net/software/oauthbearer.html Charles Footnotes: [1] https://github.com/odoo/odoo/issues/42552
Google tells me that getmail and mutt can talk oauth2. Have you tried that? Looks a bit clunky. David On Thu., Mar. 3, 2022, 20:18 Peter King via talk, <talk@gtalug.org> wrote:
Hello!
I've just been informed that "legacy authentication" is going to be disabled at the University of Toronto for my email account. Well, I suspected something like this was in the works when they adopted MS Outlook 365+ as the mail server, but it still isn't welcome.
Up to now, I've been able to use mutt and getmail for all my needs; I run a daemon that picks up (and then deletes) email from a variety of servers (University of Toronto, GMail, and so on) onto a single computer. There I apply all the filters, spam protection, sorting into various inboxes, and so on. To read email I just ssh in from any computer anywhere and run mutt. All configurable with nice text-based scripts. The email files are automatically backed up and sychronized to other computers, too. When I'm out of town I have the mail be downloaded/deleteed manually, and I have full fallover capability, so if one machine is offline I can switch to another without any hiccups.
But it looks like that is all going away, since Microsoft only supports what they call "modern" email clients, and on Linux only Thunderbird.
I could switch. But then rather than the fetch-and-store model, which has worked fine over the years, I would either have to change to a view-in-a- browser model (and so have to be running a GUI locally and store all my email somewhere else out of my control), or chuck my university email account and set up something else.
At the moment I'm really inclined to do the latter. I'll just set up some way of forwarding all my email to some text-based *NIX server somewhere that is happy to let me run scripts to deal with email. But maybe I'm not being fair to the former alternative. I have *no* experience with any of the "modern" email clients, and have been stubbornly clinging to the plain ASCII text as how email should work. Maybe there are perfectly reasonable email clients these days with powers I know nothing of.
(I am currently teaching a few courses at UCLA and was forced to use their webmail system, run by Google, and I have to say I despise it: graphical for no good reason, with limited search/sort capabilities, threading of old messages not clearly visible, and so on.)
Any advice, suggestions, hints? War stories? Ways to thwart the powers that be? Thanks in advance.
-- Peter King peter.king@utoronto.ca Department of Philosophy 170 St. George Street #521 The University of Toronto (416)-946-3170 ofc Toronto, ON M5R 2M8 CANADA
http://individual.utoronto.ca/pking/
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FYI re getmail On Sun, Mar 06, 2022 at 09:41:15AM -0500, David Thornton via talk wrote:
Google tells me that getmail and mutt can talk oauth2.
Beware, there are two getmail programmes. The original is by Charles Cazabon at pyropus.ca and doesn't (yet??) work with python3. Someone took this code and ran it through a python 2 to 3 converter and distributed it with the same name. I found out the hard way that Debian uses this new version in Bullseye to avoid having to maintain both python 2 and 3, but keeps the getmail name. Charles doesn't support it, obviously, but it has caused some headaches because it appears to have picked up some bugs after passing through the 2->3 converter. See the getmail mailing list at pyropus.ca for the details.
Looks a bit clunky.
David
On Thu., Mar. 3, 2022, 20:18 Peter King via talk, <talk@gtalug.org> wrote:
Hello!
I've just been informed that "legacy authentication" is going to be disabled at the University of Toronto for my email account. Well, I suspected something like this was in the works when they adopted MS Outlook 365+ as the mail server, but it still isn't welcome.
-- Znoteer znoteer@mailbox.org
On Sun, Mar 06, 2022 at 10:24:11AM -0500, Znoteer via talk wrote:
FYI re getmail
On Sun, Mar 06, 2022 at 09:41:15AM -0500, David Thornton via talk wrote:
Google tells me that getmail and mutt can talk oauth2.
Beware, there are two getmail programmes. The original is by Charles Cazabon at pyropus.ca and doesn't (yet??) work with python3.
Someone took this code and ran it through a python 2 to 3 converter and distributed it with the same name. I found out the hard way that Debian uses this new version in Bullseye to avoid having to maintain both python 2 and 3, but keeps the getmail name. Charles doesn't support it, obviously, but it has caused some headaches because it appears to have picked up some bugs after passing through the 2->3 converter.
Thanks. The revamped version is packaged as "getmail6" on Arch Linux, and that's the one installed on my system. I have seen some notes about using an external oauth2 program with Charles's version, but, as someone noted, it looks pretty clunky. I'm currently trying to find out whether it is possible to do the same under getmail6. And, to be fair, depending on python 2 these days is a bit out of date. -- Peter King peter.king@utoronto.ca Department of Philosophy 170 St. George Street #521 The University of Toronto (416)-946-3170 ofc Toronto, ON M5R 2M8 CANADA http://individual.utoronto.ca/pking/ ========================================================================= GPG keyID 0x7587EC42 (2B14 A355 46BC 2A16 D0BC 36F5 1FE6 D32A 7587 EC42) gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --recv-keys 7587EC42
On Sun, Mar 06, 2022 at 12:48:50PM -0500, Peter King via talk wrote:
Thanks. The revamped version is packaged as "getmail6" on Arch Linux, and that's the one installed on my system. I have seen some notes about using an external oauth2 program with Charles's version, but, as someone noted, it looks pretty clunky. I'm currently trying to find out whether it is possible to do the same under getmail6.
And, to be fair, depending on python 2 these days is a bit out of date.
Any program in python that requires python 2 these days is by definition no longer maintained. So apparently it isn't supported at all. :) -- Len Sorensen
I switched to Thunderbird for my Yahoo and Gmail accounts. It was hassle to recreate all the filters, but so far, it's okay. --William On 3/3/22 8:18 PM, Peter King via talk wrote:
... But it looks like that is all going away, since Microsoft only supports what they call "modern" email clients, and on Linux only Thunderbird.
I could switch. But then rather than the fetch-and-store model, which has worked fine over the years, I would either have to change to a view-in-a- browser model (and so have to be running a GUI locally and store all my email somewhere else out of my control), or chuck my university email account and set up something else. ...
participants (12)
-
Alvin Starr -
Charles Philip Chan -
Dave Collier-Brown -
David Thornton -
Howard Gibson -
James Knott -
Kevin Cozens -
Lennart Sorensen -
o1bigtenor -
Peter King -
William Park -
Znoteer