Hello Everyone, We're thinking of doing April meeting online, we're thinking of having a Q&A. Which of the teleconference software do you find the most comfortable to work with? * Zoom * Hangouts * Jitsi * Something completely different * Let's just skip a meeting Please reply to this email so we can gauge the interest in the next meeting. Thank you, Alex.
This is great! I couldn't make it to the meetings because of the commute. Gouri On Wed, Mar 25, 2020, 8:26 PM Alex Volkov via talk <talk@gtalug.org> wrote:
Hello Everyone,
We're thinking of doing April meeting online, we're thinking of having a Q&A.
Which of the teleconference software do you find the most comfortable to work with?
* Zoom
* Hangouts
* Jitsi
* Something completely different
* Let's just skip a meeting
Please reply to this email so we can gauge the interest in the next meeting.
Thank you,
Alex.
--- Post to this mailing list talk@gtalug.org Unsubscribe from this mailing list https://gtalug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
Same here. Glad I can make one virtually (work in Toronto, live in Niagara) I’ve had great experiences with Zoom. James On Wed, Mar 25, 2020 at 9:05 PM 90ur1 90ur1 via talk <talk@gtalug.org> wrote:
This is great!
I couldn't make it to the meetings because of the commute.
Gouri
On Wed, Mar 25, 2020, 8:26 PM Alex Volkov via talk <talk@gtalug.org> wrote:
Hello Everyone,
We're thinking of doing April meeting online, we're thinking of having a Q&A.
Which of the teleconference software do you find the most comfortable to work with?
* Zoom
* Hangouts
* Jitsi
* Something completely different
* Let's just skip a meeting
Please reply to this email so we can gauge the interest in the next meeting.
Thank you,
Alex.
--- Post to this mailing list talk@gtalug.org Unsubscribe from this mailing list https://gtalug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
--- Post to this mailing list talk@gtalug.org Unsubscribe from this mailing list https://gtalug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
Our company uses Zoom. So, a vote for Zoom. -- William Park <opengeometry@yahoo.ca> On Wed, Mar 25, 2020 at 08:25:23PM -0400, Alex Volkov via talk wrote:
Hello Everyone,
We're thinking of doing April meeting online, we're thinking of having a Q&A.
Which of the teleconference software do you find the most comfortable to work with?
* Zoom
* Hangouts
* Jitsi
* Something completely different
* Let's just skip a meeting
Please reply to this email so we can gauge the interest in the next meeting.
Thank you,
Alex.
--- Post to this mailing list talk@gtalug.org Unsubscribe from this mailing list https://gtalug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
On Wed, Mar 25, 2020 at 7:26 PM Alex Volkov via talk <talk@gtalug.org> wrote:
Hello Everyone,
We're thinking of doing April meeting online, we're thinking of having a Q&A.
Which of the teleconference software do you find the most comfortable to work with?
* Zoom
* Hangouts
* Jitsi
* Something completely different
* Let's just skip a meeting
Please reply to this email so we can gauge the interest in the next meeting.
Was looking into this for another group I'm a part of https://elearningindustry.com/top-6-open-source-web-conferencing-software-to... jitsi and the 'open meetings' look interesting - - - - sadly, no experience as of yet. Regards
Hello Everyone, Unfortunately I don't have enough time to prepare jitsi with the same features as zoom (call in numbers, up to 50 people etc.) We're going to use zoom for the upcoming meeting, generously provided by Evan Leibovitch. Maybe for for meeting after that we will be able to come up with open-source solutions. I'll create an event in the next few days for our regular date & time -- Tuesday, April 14, 7:30pm. Alex. On 2020-03-25 8:25 p.m., Alex Volkov via talk wrote:
Hello Everyone,
We're thinking of doing April meeting online, we're thinking of having a Q&A.
Which of the teleconference software do you find the most comfortable to work with?
* Zoom
* Hangouts
* Jitsi
* Something completely different
* Let's just skip a meeting
Please reply to this email so we can gauge the interest in the next meeting.
Thank you,
Alex.
--- Post to this mailing list talk@gtalug.org Unsubscribe from this mailing list https://gtalug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
On Thu, Apr 02, 2020 at 11:43:29AM -0400, Alex Volkov via talk wrote:
Hello Everyone,
Unfortunately I don't have enough time to prepare jitsi with the same features as zoom (call in numbers, up to 50 people etc.)
We're going to use zoom for the upcoming meeting, generously provided by Evan Leibovitch.
Maybe for for meeting after that we will be able to come up with open-source solutions.
I'll create an event in the next few days for our regular date & time -- Tuesday, April 14, 7:30pm.
Setting up jitsi itself doesn't seem too hard (I think I just managed to do it), but a call in number probably requires SIP and I have very little experience with that. But I was able to get video working between my phone and acouple of laptops quite happily in a browser window. I then quickly muted all the mics because the echo was going nuts between them. -- Len Sorensen
On 2020-04-02 11:43 AM, Alex Volkov via talk wrote:
We're going to use zoom for the upcoming meeting, generously provided by Evan Leibovitch.
Apparently there are security concerns with Zoom. https://www.wired.com/story/zoom-backlash-zero-days/
| From: James Knott via talk <talk@gtalug.org> | On 2020-04-02 11:43 AM, Alex Volkov via talk wrote: | > We're going to use zoom for the upcoming meeting, generously provided by | > Evan Leibovitch. | | Apparently there are security concerns with Zoom. | | https://www.wired.com/story/zoom-backlash-zero-days/ And this, reported today: <https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/02/technology/zoom-linkedin-data.html> "A Feature on Zoom Secretly Displayed Data From People’s LinkedIn Profiles"
On Thu, 2 Apr 2020 at 18:39, D. Hugh Redelmeier via talk <talk@gtalug.org> wrote:
And this, reported today: <https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/02/technology/zoom-linkedin-data.html>
And this: <https://www.reuters.com/article/us-spacex-zoom-video-commn/elon-musks-spacex-bans-zoom-over-privacy-concerns-memo-idUSKBN21J71H> -- Scott
On Thu, 2 Apr 2020 at 19:00, Scott Allen via talk <talk@gtalug.org> wrote:
On Thu, 2 Apr 2020 at 18:39, D. Hugh Redelmeier via talk <talk@gtalug.org> wrote:
And this, reported today: <https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/02/technology/zoom-linkedin-data.html>
And this: < https://www.reuters.com/article/us-spacex-zoom-video-commn/elon-musks-spacex...
Bruce Schneier has collected together a bunch of the relevant Zoom issues. https://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2020/04/security_and_pr_1.html It all suggests to me that we shouldn't consider it as more than a temporary stopgap measure. Our security concerns aren't necessarily the same as others' concerns: - Our meetings are comparatively public matters; we don't especially mind if more people listen in - The special concern I'd have is if joining a Zoom meeting exposed members' personal information; we should certainly be wary of that - One of the protections is somewhat troublesome to apply to us; we will be a bit more vulnerable than average to "Zoom bombing" because we have a need to publish the addressing information somewhat publicly And I'd think that individuals should consider things like the following... - Run the web interface atop a separate web browser from your 'usual' activity so that it doesn't have as much to collect data from (I keep a Chromium around for that sort of thing). - Various considerations are mentioned here: < https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/news/software/how-to-secure-your-zoom-meeti...
It's actually a mighty useful thing to arrive at a set of protective measures on this, as there are a lot of organizations using Zoom, and hence some value if we have a sufficiently terse set of measures that might be useful to others. -- When confronted by a difficult problem, solve it by reducing it to the question, "How would the Lone Ranger handle this?"
| From: Christopher Browne via talk <talk@gtalug.org> | On Thu, 2 Apr 2020 at 19:00, Scott Allen via talk <talk@gtalug.org> wrote: | > On Thu, 2 Apr 2020 at 18:39, D. Hugh Redelmeier via talk | > <talk@gtalug.org> wrote: | > > And this, reported today: | > > <https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/02/technology/zoom-linkedin-data.html> | It all suggests to me that we shouldn't consider it as more than a | temporary stopgap measure. | | And I'd think that individuals should consider things like the following... But wait, there's more! The linkedin mining is a concern. It means that individuals should create a throw-away email account to then create a zoom account. Don't use your real email account. In what other ways do they abuse your email account? The one time I've used zoom (for a talk by Myles) I used a chromebook that hadn't otherwise been used for years. I thought I was safe. But no, I used my main email account to create a Zoom account. So: Zoom has so many and so varied a set of problems that I'm now quite unhappy with it. It's a great argument for free/libre software. ================ I've also used Cisco's webex once. Documented Linux support has severe bitrot. Its Linux app is 32-bit only. Its browser support requires Java of some particular type. It seems to require obsolete versions of CentOS (6, if I remember correctly) or Ubuntu (16.04, if I remember correctly). Cisco has signalled several ways over a couple of decades that it hates Linux (and the GPL in general). I ended up using Windows. And even that was bad: the mic didn't work in Windows, even thought it did in Linux. So I had to switch to a different Windows notebook in the middle of a very expensive meeting. Even with the new computer, connectivity dropped out a few times.
On Fri, Apr 03, 2020 at 12:48:35PM -0400, D. Hugh Redelmeier via talk wrote:
But wait, there's more!
The linkedin mining is a concern. It means that individuals should create a throw-away email account to then create a zoom account. Don't use your real email account.
In what other ways do they abuse your email account?
The one time I've used zoom (for a talk by Myles) I used a chromebook that hadn't otherwise been used for years. I thought I was safe. But no, I used my main email account to create a Zoom account.
So: Zoom has so many and so varied a set of problems that I'm now quite unhappy with it.
It's a great argument for free/libre software.
================
I've also used Cisco's webex once. Documented Linux support has severe bitrot. Its Linux app is 32-bit only. Its browser support requires Java of some particular type. It seems to require obsolete versions of CentOS (6, if I remember correctly) or Ubuntu (16.04, if I remember correctly). Cisco has signalled several ways over a couple of decades that it hates Linux (and the GPL in general).
I ended up using Windows. And even that was bad: the mic didn't work in Windows, even thought it did in Linux. So I had to switch to a different Windows notebook in the middle of a very expensive meeting. Even with the new computer, connectivity dropped out a few times.
If anyone wants to play with it and put some load on it, feel free to poke at my jitsi install: https://jitsi.cmacleod.ca/GTALUG Works with browser only (no plugin) and I tried with "jitsi meet" client from play store on my phone. And no I don't have a domain setup, but my wife does, so that's where I put it. -- Len Sorensen
On Fri, Apr 03, 2020 at 01:35:35PM -0400, Lennart Sorensen via talk wrote:
If anyone wants to play with it and put some load on it, feel free to poke at my jitsi install:
https://jitsi.cmacleod.ca/GTALUG
Works with browser only (no plugin) and I tried with "jitsi meet" client from play store on my phone.
And no I don't have a domain setup, but my wife does, so that's where I put it.
Installing it is pretty simple. I just setup a DNS name to use pointing at my machine, setup the firewall to forward udp port 10000-11000 (probably more than I need), I already had 80 and 443 forwarded to the webserver. Then I acquired let's encrypt certificates for the hostname. Then I followed https://jitsi.org/downloads/ubuntu-debian-installations-instructions/ and told it I had certificates already and pointed it at them. After that everything just worked. That was my second try. The first one I made a typo and it took some work to wipe everything out to try again since I couldn't figure out how to fix it easily. Total probably took 30 minutes. If you want SIP bridge, you will have to add a few extra packages and configure whatever it needs. I didn't try. -- Len Sorensen
| From: Lennart Sorensen via talk <talk@gtalug.org> | If anyone wants to play with it and put some load on it, feel free to | poke at my jitsi install: | | https://jitsi.cmacleod.ca/GTALUG | | Works with browser only (no plugin) and I tried with "jitsi meet" client | from play store on my phone. I tried this. I had a pleasant chat with Lennart. Our guess is that his connection (25Mb/s down, 10Mb/s up) isn't enough for a GTALUG meeting.
Yeah, I was looking at options too. I was thinking of Cisco Webex in terms of the best of a bad lot. You may want to redo the jitsi test if possible if it allows audience members to shutoff their videos and mute their microphones, but I really don't know. Ivan.
FWIW, I've gone through the lot, as host or participant. Of the solutions out there, here is how I would rank them (in decreasing levels of quality and ease of use) 1. Zoom 2. Gotomeeting 3. Jitsi 4. Webex 5. Adobe Connect On Sat, 4 Apr 2020 at 12:03, Ivan Avery Frey via talk <talk@gtalug.org> wrote:
Yeah, I was looking at options too. I was thinking of Cisco Webex in terms of the best of a bad lot.
You may want to redo the jitsi test if possible if it allows audience members to shutoff their videos and mute their microphones, but I really don't know.
Ivan. --- Post to this mailing list talk@gtalug.org Unsubscribe from this mailing list https://gtalug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
-- Evan Leibovitch, Toronto Canada @evanleibovitch or @el56
On Sat, Apr 4, 2020 at 3:07 PM Evan Leibovitch via talk <talk@gtalug.org> wrote:
FWIW, I've gone through the lot, as host or participant.
Of the solutions out there, here is how I would rank them (in decreasing levels of quality and ease of use)
1. Zoom 2. Gotomeeting 3. Jitsi 4. Webex 5. Adobe Connect
If you were to include user privacy and security would you please revisit your list. TIA
On Sat., Apr. 4, 2020, 4:54 p.m. o1bigtenor via talk, <talk@gtalug.org> wrote:
If you were to include user privacy and security would you please
revisit your list.
Not honestly possible. Zoom has been subject to massive scrutiny because of its exploding popularity and resulting network effects. I can't properly evaluate it against the others because none of them have undergone the same levels of testing and exploitation. When starting a zoom meeting I make clear to participants that what goes on is not private. In meetings like GTALUG this generally isn't an issue. In other realms I evaluate my options.
On Sat, Apr 4, 2020 at 4:57 PM Evan Leibovitch <evan@telly.org> wrote:
On Sat., Apr. 4, 2020, 4:54 p.m. o1bigtenor via talk, <talk@gtalug.org> wrote:
If you were to include user privacy and security would you please revisit your list.
Not honestly possible.
Zoom has been subject to massive scrutiny because of its exploding popularity and resulting network effects. I can't properly evaluate it against the others because none of them have undergone the same levels of testing and exploitation.
When starting a zoom meeting I make clear to participants that what goes on is not private. In meetings like GTALUG this generally isn't an issue. In other realms I evaluate my options.
Thanks - - - was hoping that that wasn't the case but - - - - oh well - - - - convenience at all costs seems to be the most common mantra. Over and out.
| From: Evan Leibovitch via talk <talk@gtalug.org> | When starting a zoom meeting I make clear to participants that what goes on | is not private. In meetings like GTALUG this generally isn't an issue. In | other realms I evaluate my options. At least some threats are beyond that. As I mentioned, signing up for an account is in itself a security exposure. Zoom's whole stance has been wrong and may not be possible to rectify. Their excuse ("we were in a hurry") doesn't cut it for intentional "features".
On Sun, Apr 05, 2020 at 01:50:02PM -0400, D. Hugh Redelmeier via talk wrote:
At least some threats are beyond that. As I mentioned, signing up for an account is in itself a security exposure.
Zoom's whole stance has been wrong and may not be possible to rectify. Their excuse ("we were in a hurry") doesn't cut it for intentional "features".
If I read zoom's info correctly, you can either use the web client, but you have to sign up for an account, or install the plugin, but then you don't need an account. So sign up for account or install plugin. -- Len Sorensen
On Sun, 5 Apr 2020 at 13:50, D. Hugh Redelmeier via talk <talk@gtalug.org> wrote:
Zoom's whole stance has been wrong and may not be possible to rectify. Their excuse ("we were in a hurry") doesn't cut it for intentional "features".
After watching the interview that the Slack CEO did with CNN ("we got caught off guard, we thought of ourselves as a business tool and couldn't have anticipated the explosion in use"), I'm prepared to cut some Slack (sorry). As hinted before, I think of Zoom as the current least-worst option for what it does (and though not relevant here, it's especially good in locations with poor bandwidth). Can't help but think that Webex and Adobe Connect are also riddled with security holes but nobody cares. I have hopes for Jitsi but it ain't there yet. - Evan
Ergh, too late on Sunday. After watching the interview that the Slack CEO did with CNN
It was the CEO of Zoom and the interview is at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xk992LJ4N9M
On 2020-04-03 12:21 PM, Christopher Browne via talk wrote:
On Thu, 2 Apr 2020 at 19:00, Scott Allen via talk <talk@gtalug.org <mailto:talk@gtalug.org>> wrote:
On Thu, 2 Apr 2020 at 18:39, D. Hugh Redelmeier via talk <talk@gtalug.org <mailto:talk@gtalug.org>> wrote: > And this, reported today: > <https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/02/technology/zoom-linkedin-data.html>
Bruce Schneier has collected together a bunch of the relevant Zoom issues. https://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2020/04/security_and_pr_1.html
It all suggests to me that we shouldn't consider it as more than a temporary stopgap measure.
Our security concerns aren't necessarily the same as others' concerns: - Our meetings are comparatively public matters; we don't especially mind if more people listen in - The special concern I'd have is if joining a Zoom meeting exposed members' personal information; we should certainly be wary of that - One of the protections is somewhat troublesome to apply to us; we will be a bit more vulnerable than average to "Zoom bombing" because we have a need to publish the addressing information somewhat publicly
Then there's this: https://boingboing.net/2020/04/03/zoom-transmits-your-info-throu.html
And I'd think that individuals should consider things like the following... - Run the web interface atop a separate web browser from your 'usual' activity so that it doesn't have as much to collect data from (I keep a Chromium around for that sort of thing).
What about private browsers?
- Various considerations are mentioned here: <https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/news/software/how-to-secure-your-zoom-meetings-from-zoom-bombing-attacks/>
It's actually a mighty useful thing to arrive at a set of protective measures on this, as there are a lot of organizations using Zoom, and hence some value if we have a sufficiently terse set of measures that might be useful to others. -- When confronted by a difficult problem, solve it by reducing it to the question, "How would the Lone Ranger handle this?"
--- Post to this mailing list talk@gtalug.org Unsubscribe from this mailing list https://gtalug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
On 2020-04-02 06:59 PM, Scott Allen via talk wrote:
On Thu, 2 Apr 2020 at 18:39, D. Hugh Redelmeier via talk <talk@gtalug.org> wrote:
And this, reported today: <https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/02/technology/zoom-linkedin-data.html> And this: <https://www.reuters.com/article/us-spacex-zoom-video-commn/elon-musks-spacex-bans-zoom-over-privacy-concerns-memo-idUSKBN21J71H>
Skype is making Meetings available: https://www.techradar.com/news/skype-introduces-video-meetings-with-no-sign-...
On Thu, Apr 02, 2020 at 05:33:40PM -0400, James Knott via talk wrote:
On 2020-04-02 11:43 AM, Alex Volkov via talk wrote:
We're going to use zoom for the upcoming meeting, generously provided by Evan Leibovitch.
Apparently there are security concerns with Zoom.
I haven't installed Zoom on my personal machines, because it wants access to stuffs that had nothing to do with A/V. -- William Park <opengeometry@yahoo.ca>
participants (12)
-
90ur1 90ur1 -
Alex Volkov -
Christopher Browne -
D. Hugh Redelmeier -
Evan Leibovitch -
Ivan Avery Frey -
James Knott -
James Medeiros -
lsorense＠csclub.uwaterloo.ca -
o1bigtenor -
Scott Allen -
William Park