Re: [GTALUG] mysterious restarts
I also have heard of the power grid, being a microgrid designer and all.
Although it's not Linux specific, given the number of posts on this thread regarding power quality and continuity, perhaps microgrids and power walls might be an interesting meeting topic. I'd be interested in knowing what types of control systems are in use for linking and delinking? ie. how would you handle spinning up and linking a wind turbine to a hydrogen cell; bonus if there were discussions around Sandia SPIDERS and cybersecurity. Got some spare time?
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Talk Mailing List talk@gtalug.org https://gtalug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
-- Michael Galea
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On Wed, Jun 22, 2016 at 2:24 PM, Russell Reiter via talk <talk@gtalug.org> wrote:
I also have heard of the power grid, being a microgrid designer and all.
Although it's not Linux specific, given the number of posts on this thread regarding power quality and continuity, perhaps microgrids and power walls might be an interesting meeting topic.
To make it even more interesting adding phase coupled systems (for solar where an online system is linked with an offgrid system) would really grab my fancy! Dee
On 2016-06-22 04:24 PM, o1bigtenor via talk wrote:
To make it even more interesting adding phase coupled systems (for solar where an online system is linked with an offgrid system) would really grab my fancy!
I'm pretty sure the ESA would never let you connect such a system. You're either on-grid, or completely off it in this province. All grid connected variable generation (that's solar and wind) must take sync from the grid, and must disconnect completely, being unable to energize any part of the grid. Black start is reserved for a very few (and, in theory, confidential) generators who are assigned to energize their area under strict central control. cheers, Stewart
On Jun 15, 2016 3:46 PM, "Stewart C. Russell via talk" <talk@gtalug.org> wrote:
<snip> Another power out here by the Dufferin gates just before 6am. Was anyone else hit? Again it was just a couple of minutes, but this season is hitting new milestones.
Russell Reiter wrote:
Had another power out at my building.
I think I was hit by that one this morning too, and I'm in the east end.
… I kind of like the view down ft Roulle st and watching the windmill. I resist the temptation to attribute any of the electrical anomalies I have experienced to it's operations
As a director (again) of that project, I'm glad you like it, and I appreciate that you're not blaming your outages on it. I'd be more likely to attribute them to the Strachan substation, which is under colossal pressure from all the new condo builds. The city is trying to build a relief line and new substation capacity, but getting past objections is tough.
The wind turbine has a rather nice AC (variable frequency)-DC-AC (60 Hz) inverter. I imagine the new streetcars have something similar.
On DC, New York retired its last DC infrastructure only a few years ago. The very last few DC customers now have rectifiers installed in their basements, but are still charged the absurdly high DC metering price for their power. I'm led to believe these are heritage buildings with historic elevators and lighting which can't be replaced and remain within code without tearing everything out.
cheers, Stewart --- Talk Mailing List talk@gtalug.org https://gtalug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
On 06/22/2016 03:24 PM, Russell Reiter via talk wrote:
I also have heard of the power grid, being a microgrid designer and all.
Although it's not Linux specific, given the number of posts on this thread regarding power quality and continuity, perhaps microgrids and power walls might be an interesting meeting topic.
I'd be interested in knowing what types of control systems are in use for linking and delinking? ie. how would you handle spinning up and linking a wind turbine to a hydrogen cell; bonus if there were discussions around Sandia SPIDERS and cybersecurity.
Got some spare time?
I have been looking at this for quite a while. The first problem is that you cannot easily feed power back onto the grid. There was the Government program to feed solar power back onto the grid at an outragous rate but there is not much else. I was looking at a project to supply power to a data center and feed the excess power back onto the grid. We were told the small feed in rate was the same as paid to the folks with multi MW sized generators. One solution would be to get a powerwall and AC-DC-AC converter (they are available for solar installations and in various sizes). Then get a small natural gas generator to feed the system. There are a few small gas and steam turbine providers trying to come online but otherwise not much product. Then you will want to take the excess heat generated and use it for heating or cooling. At that point you should be able to be more or less grid independent. The cost of power will then fluctuate with the cost of gas but overall the cost will be somwere between 1/2 and 2/3 of the peak rate your paying to the local power company. For just the power its not a great investment but for power and heat/cooling it can be very worthwhile. If anybody is curious feel free to contact me off list. -- Alvin Starr || voice: (905)513-7688 Netvel Inc. || Cell: (416)806-0133 alvin@netvel.net ||
On 06/22/16 16:25, Alvin Starr via talk wrote:
On 06/22/2016 03:24 PM, Russell Reiter via talk wrote:
I also have heard of the power grid, being a microgrid designer and all.
Although it's not Linux specific, given the number of posts on this thread regarding power quality and continuity, perhaps microgrids and power walls might be an interesting meeting topic.
I'd be interested in knowing what types of control systems are in use for linking and delinking? ie. how would you handle spinning up and linking a wind turbine to a hydrogen cell; bonus if there were discussions around Sandia SPIDERS and cybersecurity.
Got some spare time?
I have been looking at this for quite a while.
The first problem is that you cannot easily feed power back onto the grid. There was the Government program to feed solar power back onto the grid at an outragous rate but there is not much else. I was looking at a project to supply power to a data center and feed the excess power back onto the grid. We were told the small feed in rate was the same as paid to the folks with multi MW sized generators.
One solution would be to get a powerwall and AC-DC-AC converter (they are available for solar installations and in various sizes). Then get a small natural gas generator to feed the system. There are a few small gas and steam turbine providers trying to come online but otherwise not much product. Then you will want to take the excess heat generated and use it for heating or cooling.
I'll take the opportunity to present a shameless plug for the place where I work, Opus One, which (through M Power) designs/sells/installs Tesla Powerwalls/SolarEdge Inverter residential solutions. The main use case is for customers that have solar installed and go for "maximized self consumption", which is industries way of saying "try not to borrow or export to the grid". My opinion of the technology is that it is just becoming stable, but still really expensive. Many producers in the industry (e.g. Sonnam) are forecasting a few more cycles of 400% price reductions every 4 years. The world is going to be a very different place if they manage to make that happen. On a related note, Tesla is making an offer to acquire SolarCity.
At that point you should be able to be more or less grid independent.
The cost of power will then fluctuate with the cost of gas but overall the cost will be somwere between 1/2 and 2/3 of the peak rate your paying to the local power company. For just the power its not a great investment but for power and heat/cooling it can be very worthwhile.
All over the world, governments have lost their appetite for subsidizing the solar marketplace with feed in tariffs.
If anybody is curious feel free to contact me off list.
-- Michael Galea
participants (5)
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Alvin Starr -
Michael Galea -
o1bigtenor -
Russell Reiter -
Stewart C. Russell