Re: [GTALUG] Advice -- Building Debian 8 PC To Replace Win XP PC;
Thanks to GTALUG Members, for the last series of emails I fetched on this thread. Many useful ideas and much interesting info. Copious snippets have been carefully collected into a text file. * * * * * * I have reviewed the quotation I received from NCIX, and can report: 1. Contrary to my earlier assertion, NCIX in fact has included an item for: Microsoft Windows 7 Professional Edition 64Bit DVD SP1 OEM Price C$187.99 [Reg. C$214.98] 2. And the the (now corrected) NCIX total price for hardware components alone, seems reasonable: NCIX: $1593.13 PCPartPicker: $1517.98 Caution: NCIX has made some hardware substitutions, so the total prices are only generically comparable. I compared the sum of component prices, NCIX versus PCPartPicker, and NCIX is acceptably close to PCPartPicker. Here is a summary of the component price comparison (all prices $C): ----------------- NCIX* PC PartPicker** ----------------- -------- ------------- CPU $269.99 $249.25 CPU Cooler $92.98 $79.95 Motherboard $289.99 $228.98 Memory $44.99 $75.98 ----------------- Case $144.99 $129.99 Power Supply $214.98 $159.99 ----------------- Solid State Drive $135.70 $156.99 Hard Drive $67.99 $81.95 Optical Drive $92.98 $86.98 ----------------- Video Monitor $167.98 $167.92 Keyboard $15.98 $40.00 Mouse (incl.) $10.00 ----------------- Dialup Modem $54.58 $50.00 ----------------- ----------------- TOTAL1: $1593.13 $1517.98 ----------------- ----------------- MS Windows 7 $187.99 Assemble & Test $49.98 Environ. Fees $16.65 ----------------- ----------------- TOTAL2: $1897.73 ----------------- ----------------- Not an inexpensive PC. And not a souped-up gamer's PC. But one that I believe will run plenty fast and stay cool under 24/7 duty. With lots of expansion capacity for additional hardware, that will not stress the power supply or the cooling apparatus. My plan now is to revise the Linux PC specification, taking into account the avalanche of advice I have received from GTALUG members. (e.g. increase RAM to 16 GB from 8, drop the dial-up modem and source later, change HDD to Western Digital Black, etc.) Then I will ask NCIX for a revised quotation, confirm with NCIX a number of picky details (e.g. is the WIndows 7 DVD SP1 OEM at the latest SP level?, etc.) and get NCIX agreement on technical details of HDD partitioning (GPT) and boot setup (multi-boot, with Windows 7 installed; ready for a Linux (debian 8) drop-in installation. * * * * * * I'm probably not going to be able respond to many more individual posts to this thread, but I will read any that follow with interest. Will report back, upon conclusion of my negotiations with NCIX. The self-build option for the new Linux PC remains open, should NCIX be unable to satisfy the requirements. Many thanks again to GTALUG !! Best Regards, Steve * * * Steve Petrie, P.Eng. ITS-ETO Consortium Oakville, Ontario, Canada (905) 847-3253 apetrie@aspetrie.net
| From: "Steve Petrie, P.Eng. via talk" <talk@gtalug.org> | 1. Contrary to my earlier assertion, NCIX in fact has included an item for: | Microsoft Windows 7 Professional Edition 64Bit DVD SP1 OEM | Price C$187.99 [Reg. C$214.98] If you buy Win 7 pro, in a bundle, from a big manufacturer, you can save most of that money. | 2. And the the (now corrected) NCIX total price for hardware components alone, seems reasonable: | NCIX: $1593.13 PCPartPicker: $1517.98 | Caution: NCIX has made some hardware substitutions, so the total prices are only generically comparable. This price seemed quite high to me, at least compared with an off-the-rack computer. Here are some you could consider. If you go to NCIX's site, and select "Business Desktops", you can filter <http://www.ncix.com/category/business-desktops-cc-1357.htm> - i5 or i7 (but the filter seems to let through i3 machines) - Win 7 pro Here's a similar page from Canada Computers, another Canadian chain. They have in-house service too (not warranty service for branded computers). <http://www.canadacomputers.com/search_result.php?checkVal0=1&checkVal1=1&checkVal2=0&subcat20=1&subcat21=2&checkVal3=1&checkVal4=1&checkVal5=1&checkVal6=1&checkVal7=1&checkVal8=1&checkVal9=0&subcat93=4&pagePos=0&keywords=&manu=0&search=1&ccid=1203&cPath=7_1203> (I hope that link works.) You probably want to reject out of hand Small Form Factor (SFF) machines because you cannot customize them enough after-purchase. You need to check carefully whether they have the ports and slots you think that you want. (None has everything to meet your requirements.) None of these is what I call inexpensive. But they might be better value than your custom build.
Hello Hugh, Thanks for your message. Please see my comments inline below. Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: "D. Hugh Redelmeier" <hugh@mimosa.com> To: "Steve Petrie, P.Eng." <apetrie@aspetrie.net>; "GTALUG Talk" <talk@gtalug.org> Sent: Friday, July 29, 2016 7:52 PM Subject: Re: [GTALUG] Advice -- Building Debian 8 PC To Replace Win XP PC;
| From: "Steve Petrie, P.Eng. via talk" <talk@gtalug.org>
| 1. Contrary to my earlier assertion, NCIX in fact has included an item for: | Microsoft Windows 7 Professional Edition 64Bit DVD SP1 OEM | Price C$187.99 [Reg. C$214.98]
If you buy Win 7 pro, in a bundle, from a big manufacturer, you can save most of that money.
What I won't get from a big manufacturer of white boxes, is a PC with over-specified components, for extreme longevity and cool-running reliability. The CPU cooler, power supply and other components on a white box will be sized for some statistical model of intermittent use, and I want a PC that, even after future expansion, can run flat-out 24/7 cruising not struggling.
| 2. And the the (now corrected) NCIX total price for hardware components alone, seems reasonable: | NCIX: $1593.13 PCPartPicker: $1517.98 | Caution: NCIX has made some hardware substitutions, so the total prices are only generically comparable.
This price seemed quite high to me, at least compared with an off-the-rack computer.
Perhaps the price seems high, because my desire for longevity, cool-running reliability and expandability has motivated specification of: [1] powerful air-cooled CPU cooler with sealed convection heat pipes; [2] power supply will still operate well below maximum output capacity, with additional components in the PC; [3] case with plenty of free expansion slots, fan mounts and generous air flow clearances; [4] motherboard with plenty of slots for expandability and M.2 PCIe 4x lanes support for SDD; Speed is important. but never at the cost of reliability. Although I am price conscious, my focus is on value for money, given the requirements for speed, longevity, cool-running reliability and expandability.
Here are some you could consider.
<snip>
Here's a similar page from Canada Computers, another Canadian chain. They have in-house service too (not warranty service for branded computers). <http://www.canadacomputers.com/search_result.php?checkVal0=1&checkVal1=1&checkVal2=0&subcat20=1&subcat21=2&checkVal3=1&checkVal4=1&checkVal5=1&checkVal6=1&checkVal7=1&checkVal8=1&checkVal9=0&subcat93=4&pagePos=0&keywords=&manu=0&search=1&ccid=1203&cPath=7_1203> (I hope that link works.)
I'll keep them in mind. <snip>
<snip>
Perhaps the price seems high, because my desire for longevity,
cool-running reliability and expandability has motivated specification of:
[1] powerful air-cooled CPU cooler with sealed convection heat pipes; [2] power supply will still operate well below maximum output capacity,
with additional components in the PC;
[3] case with plenty of free expansion slots, fan mounts and generous air flow clearances;
Here's the top critical review of your case, at least I think it's the same one. I lifted this from Newegg. Note the issue with SSD mounts. 8/26/2015 8:29:07 PM Pros: It looks nice. It's quiet. Cable management is okay. Cons: The case came bent near the power supply. This was easily fixable but it says something about how they package the case for shipping. My friend ordered a Define S case and his came with even more damage. The back of the case was bent and the LED light plug was broken. This does not make me want to buy another fractal design product. The biggest complaint I have about the case is that ssd mounts don't fit either of my ssd's. Admittedly I do have on ssd that is slightly bigger than the other, but the smaller one is a standard 2.5" drive that I can't mount because it's too big for the mount they designed. It makes me wonder if any ssd's can fit in this mount. Overall I'm not impressed. Here's the review which led me to the previous, which I think is your choice. http://m.newegg.com/Product/TopReviewDetails?itemnumber=N82E16811352049&istopcritical=True
[4] motherboard with plenty of slots for expandability and M.2 PCIe 4x lanes support for SDD;
Speed is important. but never at the cost of reliability.
Although I am price conscious, my focus is on value for money, given the requirements for speed, longevity, cool-running reliability and expandability.
Here are some you could consider.
<snip>
Here's a similar page from Canada Computers, another Canadian chain. They have in-house service too (not warranty service for branded computers). < http://www.canadacomputers.com/search_result.php?checkVal0=1&checkVal1=1&checkVal2=0&subcat20=1&subcat21=2&checkVal3=1&checkVal4=1&checkVal5=1&checkVal6=1&checkVal7=1&checkVal8=1&checkVal9=0&subcat93=4&pagePos=0&keywords=&manu=0&search=1&ccid=1203&cPath=7_1203
(I hope that link works.)
I'll keep them in mind.
<snip> --- Talk Mailing List talk@gtalug.org https://gtalug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
Russell Sent from mobile.
Hello Russell, Thanks for your message. My comments are inline below. Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: "Russell Reiter" <rreiter91@gmail.com> To: "GTALUG Talk" <talk@gtalug.org>; "Steve Petrie, P.Eng." <apetrie@aspetrie.net> Sent: Saturday, July 30, 2016 4:53 PM Subject: Re: [GTALUG] Advice -- Building Debian 8 PC To Replace Win XP PC;
<snip>
<snip>
[3] case with plenty of free expansion slots, fan mounts and generous air flow clearances;
Here's the top critical review of your case, at least I think it's the same one. I lifted this from Newegg. Note the issue with SSD mounts.
8/26/2015 8:29:07 PM
Pros: It looks nice. It's quiet. Cable management is okay.
Cons: The case came bent near the power supply. This was easily fixable but it says something about how they package the case for shipping. My friend ordered a Define S case and his came with even more damage. The back of the case was bent and the LED light plug was broken. This does not make me want to buy another fractal design product. The biggest complaint I have about the case is that ssd mounts don't fit either of my ssd's. Admittedly I do have on ssd that is slightly bigger than the other, but the smaller one is a standard 2.5" drive that I can't mount because it's too big for the mount they designed. It makes me wonder if any ssd's can fit in this mount. Overall I'm not impressed.
I'm not impressed, either. Based on earlier GTALUG advice (from Lennart) that the front door on the Fractal Design case (if closed) is inviting a self-ejecting optical drive to destroy itself, I already decided to drop the Fractal Design case(with its front door) and I'm going to investigate Lennart's suggested substitution: Silverstone TJ04-E.
Here's the review which led me to the previous, which I think is your choice.
http://m.newegg.com/Product/TopReviewDetails?itemnumber=N82E16811352049&istopcritical=True
I couldn't find the exact critical review from which you got the critical review snippet, but the damage to the case, and the lack of SSD mount space, just confirm my decision to drop the Fractal Design case. <snip>
--- Talk Mailing List talk@gtalug.org https://gtalug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
Russell Sent from mobile.
On Mon, Aug 01, 2016 at 11:07:06AM -0400, Steve Petrie, P.Eng. via talk wrote:
Based on earlier GTALUG advice (from Lennart) that the front door on the Fractal Design case (if closed) is inviting a self-ejecting optical drive to destroy itself, I already decided to drop the Fractal Design case(with its front door) and I'm going to investigate Lennart's suggested substitution: Silverstone TJ04-E.
Hmm, I can't seem to find it for sale anywhere at the moment (well amazon has it for an insane $300). It may have been discontinued. It was released about 4 years ago as a follow up to the TJ04 which was around a number of years.
I couldn't find the exact critical review from which you got the critical review snippet, but the damage to the case, and the lack of SSD mount space, just confirm my decision to drop the Fractal Design case.
Well adapters for 3.5 to 2.5" are not expensive, but it certainly is handy if the case already has mounting spots for SSDs that work. -- Len Sorensen
participants (4)
-
D. Hugh Redelmeier -
Lennart Sorensen -
Russell Reiter -
Steve Petrie, P.Eng.