I'm working on an article about advances in Linux networking (eg, Cake), but with a demonstration anyone can do, to convince doubters. I therefor need a way to show how crappy someone's network is. I tried Skype "echo" calls and an couple of similar approaches, then tried playing you-tube videos, all while throwing a load on the network. But it doesn't /visibly/ fail. What is something that I can make fail, either audibly or visually? Showing my grandmother ping statistics isn't going to work (;-)) --dave -- David Collier-Brown, | Always do right. This will gratify System Programmer and Author | some people and astonish the rest davecb@spamcop.net | -- Mark Twain
Well I have a cottage network. The DSL backhaul to Toronto seems to have been done with 2 tin cans and a string. God bless Bell..... On 1/19/21 7:19 AM, David Collier-Brown via talk wrote:
I'm working on an article about advances in Linux networking (eg, Cake), but with a demonstration anyone can do, to convince doubters.
I therefor need a way to show how crappy someone's network is. I tried Skype "echo" calls and an couple of similar approaches, then tried playing you-tube videos, all while throwing a load on the network.
But it doesn't /visibly/ fail.
What is something that I can make fail, either audibly or visually? Showing my grandmother ping statistics isn't going to work (;-))
--dave
-- David Collier-Brown, | Always do right. This will gratify System Programmer and Author | some people and astonish the rest davecb@spamcop.net | -- Mark Twain
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-- Alvin Starr || land: (647)478-6285 Netvel Inc. || Cell: (416)806-0133 alvin@netvel.net ||
On 2021-01-19 7:19 a.m., David Collier-Brown via talk wrote:
What is something that I can make fail, either audibly or visually? Showing my grandmother ping statistics isn't going to work (;-))
Video call over 2.4 GHz wifi, then start the microwave. Glitchtastic every time. Stewart
On 2021-01-19 9:56 a.m., Stewart C. Russell via talk wrote:
On 2021-01-19 7:19 a.m., David Collier-Brown via talk wrote:
What is something that I can make fail, either audibly or visually? Showing my grandmother ping statistics isn't going to work (;-)) Video call over 2.4 GHz wifi, then start the microwave. Glitchtastic every time.
I'm not sure the Linux networking changes help with that (;-)) --dave -- David Collier-Brown, | Always do right. This will gratify System Programmer and Author | some people and astonish the rest davecb@spamcop.net | -- Mark Twain
On 2021-01-19 11:15 a.m., David Collier-Brown wrote:
On 2021-01-19 9:56 a.m., Stewart C. Russell via talk wrote:
On 2021-01-19 7:19 a.m., David Collier-Brown via talk wrote:
What is something that I can make fail, either audibly or visually? Showing my grandmother ping statistics isn't going to work (;-)) Video call over 2.4 GHz wifi, then start the microwave. Glitchtastic every time.
I'm not sure the Linux networking changes help with that (;-))
--dave
Joking aside, is there a famously _bad_ video or audio site, one that everyone hates? Or a setting for a service that makes it fail? --dave -- David Collier-Brown, | Always do right. This will gratify System Programmer and Author | some people and astonish the rest davecb@spamcop.net | -- Mark Twain
On Tue, 19 Jan 2021 at 16:21, David Collier-Brown via talk <talk@gtalug.org> wrote:
On 2021-01-19 11:15 a.m., David Collier-Brown wrote:
On 2021-01-19 9:56 a.m., Stewart C. Russell via talk wrote:
On 2021-01-19 7:19 a.m., David Collier-Brown via talk wrote:
What is something that I can make fail, either audibly or visually? Showing my grandmother ping statistics isn't going to work (;-)) Video call over 2.4 GHz wifi, then start the microwave. Glitchtastic every time.
I'm not sure the Linux networking changes help with that (;-))
--dave
Joking aside, is there a famously _bad_ video or audio site, one that everyone hates?
Or a setting for a service that makes it fail?
Here's an idea - no clue if it's a good one. Get yourself access to a low bandwidth connection: if the following table is correct (dubious source and video compression always varies depending on content) then you can easily saturate a 10Mbps DSL line with a 4K video: Resolutions Required Bandwidth Required H264 H265 1280×720(HD) 3Mbps 1.5Mbps 1920X1080(FHD) 6Mbps 3Mbps 3840×2160 (UHD) 25Mbps 12Mbps 4096×2160 (4K) 32Mbps 15Mbps (source: https://www.synopi.com/bandwidth-required-for-hd-fhd-4k-video/ in case the table got mangled into unreadability. ) Maybe you have a way to fractionalize your own network connection if you don't have access to 10/1 DSL. With YouTube, you can select the resolution (although it's not very granular at the top end). If you can toggle CAKE on/off, see if the saturated line becomes unsaturated. If not, reduce the video resolution and repeat. YouTube's "Stats for Nerds" may also be helpful? -- Giles https://www.gilesorr.com/ gilesorr@gmail.com
On 2021-01-19 4:49 p.m., Giles Orr wrote:
On Tue, 19 Jan 2021 at 16:21, David Collier-Brown via talk <talk@gtalug.org> wrote:
On 2021-01-19 11:15 a.m., David Collier-Brown wrote:
On 2021-01-19 9:56 a.m., Stewart C. Russell via talk wrote:
On 2021-01-19 7:19 a.m., David Collier-Brown via talk wrote:
What is something that I can make fail, either audibly or visually? Showing my grandmother ping statistics isn't going to work (;-)) Video call over 2.4 GHz wifi, then start the microwave. Glitchtastic every time. I'm not sure the Linux networking changes help with that (;-))
--dave Joking aside, is there a famously _bad_ video or audio site, one that everyone hates?
Or a setting for a service that makes it fail? Here's an idea - no clue if it's a good one.
Get yourself access to a low bandwidth connection: if the following table is correct (dubious source and video compression always varies depending on content) then you can easily saturate a 10Mbps DSL line with a 4K video:
Resolutions Required Bandwidth Required H264 H265 1280×720(HD) 3Mbps 1.5Mbps 1920X1080(FHD) 6Mbps 3Mbps 3840×2160 (UHD) 25Mbps 12Mbps 4096×2160 (4K) 32Mbps 15Mbps
(source: https://www.synopi.com/bandwidth-required-for-hd-fhd-4k-video/ in case the table got mangled into unreadability. )
Maybe you have a way to fractionalize your own network connection if you don't have access to 10/1 DSL.
With YouTube, you can select the resolution (although it's not very granular at the top end). If you can toggle CAKE on/off, see if the saturated line becomes unsaturated. If not, reduce the video resolution and repeat. YouTube's "Stats for Nerds" may also be helpful?
Aha, their stats aren't something I've looked into. Thanks! --dave -- David Collier-Brown, | Always do right. This will gratify System Programmer and Author | some people and astonish the rest dave.collier-brown@indexexchange.com | -- Mark Twain
On 19/01/2021 07:19, David Collier-Brown via talk wrote:
I'm working on an article about advances in Linux networking (eg, Cake), but with a demonstration anyone can do, to convince doubters.
I therefor need a way to show how crappy someone's network is. I tried Skype "echo" calls and an couple of similar approaches, then tried playing you-tube videos, all while throwing a load on the network.
But it doesn't /visibly/ fail.
What is something that I can make fail, either audibly or visually? Showing my grandmother ping statistics isn't going to work (;-))
A couple ideas: 1. Saturate your link using iperf in client mode, connected to a remote iperf server with more throughput capacity than your uplink. Then run your demonstration application. 2. Mess with MSS/MTU sizes, perhaps in concert with iperf generated load. 3. DDoS yourself with some raw or spoofed packets. 4. Fill up your connection table, either with lots of connections, or by lowering the limit. The problem with all of these is that TCP is designed to deal with dropped & timed out packets, and applications that use UDP usually have some perceptual encoding algorithm that tolerates missing datagrams up to a point. Let us know how you get on with this project! Cheers, Jamon
On 2021-01-19 7:19 a.m., David Collier-Brown via talk wrote:
I'm working on an article about advances in Linux networking (eg, Cake), but with a demonstration anyone can do, to convince doubters.
I therefor need a way to show how crappy someone's network is. I tried Skype "echo" calls and an couple of similar approaches, then tried playing you-tube videos, all while throwing a load on the network.
But it doesn't /visibly/ fail.
What is something that I can make fail, either audibly or visually? Showing my grandmother ping statistics isn't going to work (;-))
Run Windows? ;-) Maybe you could make a defective Ethernet cable. Perhaps crosswire a pair.
participants (7)
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Alvin Starr -
Dave Collier-Brown -
David Collier-Brown
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Giles Orr -
James Knott -
Jamon Camisso -
Stewart C. Russell