on internet speeds and crossing providers?
Hi folks, I am moving, and my new situation does not include Internet in the rent. stunning how many landlords include it these days though. Anyway its been almost 4 years since I shopped for a plan. Add that all my stuff is wired, along with my likely keeping Fibe with bell, and I have two questions. First, can I say find a good internet plan elsewhere, yet use bell for television? I run DOS. I do not watch movies on my computer. While I do download audio, its not likely to be expansive. that a bell sells rep said I had to buy unlimited, at $75, seemed well goofy. So, just what do those numbers really mean in terms of real value? Could I find a better price for Internet, keeping cable with them? many moons ago I did that very thing, cable was with Rogers, home phone and Internet with bell..but this was years ago. Ideas? Cheers, Karen
Hello Karen, I can confirm that, after lengthy tedious prior discussions with various Bell Canada people (while I fought the awesome greed of Bell senior management) I was assured that the the ("goofy") all-inclusive Bell Fibe service, is the way to get the best price for high speed Internet service. While I loathe Bell for their breathtaking greed (and like you, I never watch TV, in fact I have NEVER owned a TV), I relentlessly stick with Bell, for the: (1) blazing bandwidth, (2) awesome uptime performance, and (3) friendly knowledgeable support staff. Granted that I had to fight a moral "Holy War" to get Bell to keep to the billing rate that was earlier promised to me by a member of Bell's sales "loyalty" group. I absolutely REFUSED to accept the (approx.) all-in $180 per month they tried to foist on me. It took some determined trench warfare on my part, but my latest monthly all-in payment was $92.36. So, at the $75 per month Bell has quoted you, your all-in cost of should be $86.25 ($75 * 1.15). Call me envious :) Steve Petrie apetrie@aspetrie.net 416-233-6116 -------- Original Message -------- SUBJECT: [GTALUG] on internet speeds and crossing providers? DATE: 2025-05-31 23:28 FROM: Karen Lewellen via talk <talk@gtalug.org> TO: talk@gtalug.org Hi folks, I am moving, and my new situation does not include Internet in the rent. stunning how many landlords include it these days though. Anyway its been almost 4 years since I shopped for a plan. Add that all my stuff is wired, along with my likely keeping Fibe with bell, and I have two questions. First, can I say find a good internet plan elsewhere, yet use bell for television? I run DOS. I do not watch movies on my computer. While I do download audio, its not likely to be expansive. that a bell sells rep said I had to buy unlimited, at $75, seemed well goofy. So, just what do those numbers really mean in terms of real value? Could I find a better price for Internet, keeping cable with them? many moons ago I did that very thing, cable was with Rogers, home phone and Internet with bell..but this was years ago. Ideas? Cheers, Karen --- Post to this mailing list talk@gtalug.org Unsubscribe from this mailing list https://gtalug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
Hi Steve, In my personal case, I watch TV daily, for work even...meaning that unlimited internet rate does not include the likely additional $75 or so for television. For my needs, speed is far from critical, no video chat,or games, or Instagram, not even graphical based files. Thanks for your wisdom, Karen On Sun, 1 Jun 2025, Steve Petrie via talk wrote:
Hello Karen,
I can confirm that, after lengthy tedious prior discussions with various Bell Canada people (while I fought the awesome greed of Bell senior management) I was assured that the the ("goofy") all-inclusive Bell Fibe service, is the way to get the best price for high speed Internet service.
While I loathe Bell for their breathtaking greed (and like you, I never watch TV, in fact I have NEVER owned a TV), I relentlessly stick with Bell, for the: (1) blazing bandwidth, (2) awesome uptime performance, and (3) friendly knowledgeable support staff.
Granted that I had to fight a moral "Holy War" to get Bell to keep to the billing rate that was earlier promised to me by a member of Bell's sales "loyalty" group. I absolutely REFUSED to accept the (approx.) all-in $180 per month they tried to foist on me. It took some determined trench warfare on my part, but my latest monthly all-in payment was $92.36.
So, at the $75 per month Bell has quoted you, your all-in cost of should be $86.25 ($75 * 1.15). Call me envious :)
Steve Petrie
apetrie@aspetrie.net 416-233-6116
-------- Original Message --------
SUBJECT: [GTALUG] on internet speeds and crossing providers?
DATE: 2025-05-31 23:28
FROM: Karen Lewellen via talk <talk@gtalug.org>
TO: talk@gtalug.org
Hi folks, I am moving, and my new situation does not include Internet in the rent. stunning how many landlords include it these days though. Anyway its been almost 4 years since I shopped for a plan. Add that all my stuff is wired, along with my likely keeping Fibe with bell, and I have two questions. First, can I say find a good internet plan elsewhere, yet use bell for television? I run DOS. I do not watch movies on my computer. While I do download audio, its not likely to be expansive. that a bell sells rep said I had to buy unlimited, at $75, seemed well goofy. So, just what do those numbers really mean in terms of real value? Could I find a better price for Internet, keeping cable with them? many moons ago I did that very thing, cable was with Rogers, home phone and Internet with bell..but this was years ago. Ideas? Cheers, Karen
--- Post to this mailing list talk@gtalug.org Unsubscribe from this mailing list https://gtalug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
On Sun, Jun 01, 2025 at 10:16:22AM -0400, Karen Lewellen via talk wrote:
Hi Steve, In my personal case, I watch TV daily, for work even...meaning that unlimited internet rate does not include the likely additional $75 or so for television. For my needs, speed is far from critical, no video chat,or games, or Instagram, not even graphical based files. Thanks for your wisdom, Karen
Well I see something named comwave.net claims you can get 30Mbit service for $29.99. It looks like they use rogers cable to carry the connection, which at least means it should not have a chance to interfere with anything Bell is doing for TV service since it would be on different connections. Of course you would think Bell could offer a cheaper internet option with their TV service. But when have they ever been sensible about their offers. Moving sure must be a pain for you having to get new to a new layout for everything. -- Len Sorensen
On 6/1/25 12:01, Lennart Sorensen via talk wrote:
It looks like they use rogers cable to carry the connection
Rogers owns Comwave. https://mobilesyrup.com/2023/11/08/rogers-acquiring-comwave/
..and that trend seems to be likewise common. A company that seems terrific on the surface is actually just a reseller for one of the usual suspects. When searching I came across a company called Oxio, have not dug much deeper yet. Still, it makes me wonder if any provider is actually independent? Kare On Sun, 1 Jun 2025, James Knott via talk wrote:
On 6/1/25 12:01, Lennart Sorensen via talk wrote:
It looks like they use rogers cable to carry the connection
Rogers owns Comwave.
https://mobilesyrup.com/2023/11/08/rogers-acquiring-comwave/ --- Post to this mailing list talk@gtalug.org Unsubscribe from this mailing list https://gtalug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
I had bad experiences with the larger companies. They over promised and overcharged. I am very happy with Start.ca. Reliable, affordable and friendly. I am happy to recommend them. Best, V
On Jun 1, 2025, at 12:34 PM, Karen Lewellen via talk <talk@gtalug.org> wrote:
..and that trend seems to be likewise common. A company that seems terrific on the surface is actually just a reseller for one of the usual suspects. When searching I came across a company called Oxio, have not dug much deeper yet. Still, it makes me wonder if any provider is actually independent? Kare
On Sun, 1 Jun 2025, James Knott via talk wrote:
On 6/1/25 12:01, Lennart Sorensen via talk wrote: It looks like they use rogers cable to carry the connection
Rogers owns Comwave.
https://mobilesyrup.com/2023/11/08/rogers-acquiring-comwave/ --- Post to this mailing list talk@gtalug.org Unsubscribe from this mailing list https://gtalug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
--- Post to this mailing list talk@gtalug.org Unsubscribe from this mailing list https://gtalug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
Thanks, will call them. You do know they are a partner of tellus? Kare On Sun, 1 Jun 2025, Vasilis Papadiamantopoulos wrote:
I had bad experiences with the larger companies. They over promised and overcharged. I am very happy with Start.ca. Reliable, affordable and friendly.
I am happy to recommend them.
Best, V
On Jun 1, 2025, at 12:34 PM, Karen Lewellen via talk <talk@gtalug.org> wrote:
..and that trend seems to be likewise common. A company that seems terrific on the surface is actually just a reseller for one of the usual suspects. When searching I came across a company called Oxio, have not dug much deeper yet. Still, it makes me wonder if any provider is actually independent? Kare
On Sun, 1 Jun 2025, James Knott via talk wrote:
On 6/1/25 12:01, Lennart Sorensen via talk wrote: It looks like they use rogers cable to carry the connection
Rogers owns Comwave.
https://mobilesyrup.com/2023/11/08/rogers-acquiring-comwave/ --- Post to this mailing list talk@gtalug.org Unsubscribe from this mailing list https://gtalug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
--- Post to this mailing list talk@gtalug.org Unsubscribe from this mailing list https://gtalug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
I think they were purchased one or two years ago. So far I have seen no change in the customer service/support. Also you get to have access in streaming package deals and cellphone package deals. We have a streaming package which is way more affordable than paying individual streaming packages. Give them a call. Their representatives are very nice people, living in the London ON area. Best, V
On Jun 1, 2025, at 1:41 PM, Karen Lewellen <klewellen@shellworld.net> wrote:
Thanks, will call them. You do know they are a partner of tellus? Kare
On Sun, 1 Jun 2025, Vasilis Papadiamantopoulos wrote:
I had bad experiences with the larger companies. They over promised and overcharged. I am very happy with Start.ca. Reliable, affordable and friendly.
I am happy to recommend them.
Best, V
On Jun 1, 2025, at 12:34 PM, Karen Lewellen via talk <talk@gtalug.org> wrote:
..and that trend seems to be likewise common. A company that seems terrific on the surface is actually just a reseller for one of the usual suspects. When searching I came across a company called Oxio, have not dug much deeper yet. Still, it makes me wonder if any provider is actually independent? Kare
On Sun, 1 Jun 2025, James Knott via talk wrote:
On 6/1/25 12:01, Lennart Sorensen via talk wrote: It looks like they use rogers cable to carry the connection
Rogers owns Comwave.
https://mobilesyrup.com/2023/11/08/rogers-acquiring-comwave/ --- Post to this mailing list talk@gtalug.org Unsubscribe from this mailing list https://gtalug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
--- Post to this mailing list talk@gtalug.org Unsubscribe from this mailing list https://gtalug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
On Sun, Jun 01, 2025 at 06:45:41PM -0400, Vasilis Papadiamantopoulos via talk wrote:
I think they were purchased one or two years ago. So far I have seen no change in the customer service/support. Also you get to have access in streaming package deals and cellphone package deals.
We have a streaming package which is way more affordable than paying individual streaming packages.
Give them a call. Their representatives are very nice people, living in the London ON area.
A streaming package might not be very useful though. I believe Karen needs access to specific channels using a remote that is possible to navigate without vision. Changing to a new box would probably be very annoying. I seem to recall a need for the box to have analog outputs not just HDMI as well which rather limits the number of options these days. -- Len Sorensen
Yes, after a fashion, There customer service team, in fact, were far from nice. A major reason why I want to keep the VIP 2502 box I have just now, or reasons though are these. 1, I do absolutely need real jacks on the back, all my stuff is traditional. second, the remote uses physical wonderful buttons..not something like Google assistant. those voices can trigger a seizure so, real buttons if you please. smiles, Karen On Mon, 2 Jun 2025, Lennart Sorensen wrote:
On Sun, Jun 01, 2025 at 06:45:41PM -0400, Vasilis Papadiamantopoulos via talk wrote:
I think they were purchased one or two years ago. So far I have seen no change in the customer service/support. Also you get to have access in streaming package deals and cellphone package deals.
We have a streaming package which is way more affordable than paying individual streaming packages.
Give them a call. Their representatives are very nice people, living in the London ON area.
A streaming package might not be very useful though. I believe Karen needs access to specific channels using a remote that is possible to navigate without vision. Changing to a new box would probably be very annoying. I seem to recall a need for the box to have analog outputs not just HDMI as well which rather limits the number of options these days.
-- Len Sorensen
This company is a firm no. Based on my four tries at conversation this afternoon. If I wanted to use telus, or deal with their lack of solid accessibility, I would just call them. Glad they remain magical for you however. best, On Sun, 1 Jun 2025, Vasilis Papadiamantopoulos wrote:
I think they were purchased one or two years ago. So far I have seen no change in the customer service/support. Also you get to have access in streaming package deals and cellphone package deals.
We have a streaming package which is way more affordable than paying individual streaming packages.
Give them a call. Their representatives are very nice people, living in the London ON area.
Best, V
On Jun 1, 2025, at 1:41 PM, Karen Lewellen <klewellen@shellworld.net> wrote:
Thanks, will call them. You do know they are a partner of tellus? Kare
On Sun, 1 Jun 2025, Vasilis Papadiamantopoulos wrote:
I had bad experiences with the larger companies. They over promised and overcharged. I am very happy with Start.ca. Reliable, affordable and friendly.
I am happy to recommend them.
Best, V
On Jun 1, 2025, at 12:34 PM, Karen Lewellen via talk <talk@gtalug.org> wrote:
..and that trend seems to be likewise common. A company that seems terrific on the surface is actually just a reseller for one of the usual suspects. When searching I came across a company called Oxio, have not dug much deeper yet. Still, it makes me wonder if any provider is actually independent? Kare
On Sun, 1 Jun 2025, James Knott via talk wrote:
On 6/1/25 12:01, Lennart Sorensen via talk wrote: It looks like they use rogers cable to carry the connection
Rogers owns Comwave.
https://mobilesyrup.com/2023/11/08/rogers-acquiring-comwave/ --- Post to this mailing list talk@gtalug.org Unsubscribe from this mailing list https://gtalug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
--- Post to this mailing list talk@gtalug.org Unsubscribe from this mailing list https://gtalug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
On Sun, Jun 01, 2025 at 12:12:43PM -0400, James Knott via talk wrote:
Rogers owns Comwave.
https://mobilesyrup.com/2023/11/08/rogers-acquiring-comwave/
So it's a brand they use to sell their cheaper offerings now? -- Len Sorensen
Hi Len, Your wisdom here brings up a slightly different question then. for those who want to giggle a bit, I am sincere that everything for me is wired. I imagine in this case I end up with more than one modem in my house, and understand this may be very smart indeed. That my television can operate apart from what my personal Internet is doing. So, two questions. First, is this common? Second, are there tools, equipment that make this set up work more efficiently? As for the move, well yes and it depends. One personal frustration has been the hunting process itself, sites that are not accessible, experiencing over and over again the stereotype screening. Those experiencing disabilities, speaking personally, face far more challenges around what others believe that means, then the disability experience on its own. My idea of a desired layout often differs from others.. I am not fond of wide open empty spaces for example. Do not get me started on real estate agents, ending up underground and so forth. at the end of the day though? its 4 walls a sealing and a floor that does not move. If my wishes are respected, and I have solid landmarks, it ends up fine. Besides opening all the boxes I just packed can feel a bit like Christmas. as in wow where did that come from! Kare On Sun, 1 Jun 2025, Lennart Sorensen wrote:
On Sun, Jun 01, 2025 at 10:16:22AM -0400, Karen Lewellen via talk wrote:
Hi Steve, In my personal case, I watch TV daily, for work even...meaning that unlimited internet rate does not include the likely additional $75 or so for television. For my needs, speed is far from critical, no video chat,or games, or Instagram, not even graphical based files. Thanks for your wisdom, Karen
Well I see something named comwave.net claims you can get 30Mbit service for $29.99. It looks like they use rogers cable to carry the connection, which at least means it should not have a chance to interfere with anything Bell is doing for TV service since it would be on different connections.
Of course you would think Bell could offer a cheaper internet option with their TV service. But when have they ever been sensible about their offers.
Moving sure must be a pain for you having to get new to a new layout for everything.
-- Len Sorensen
On Sun, Jun 01, 2025 at 12:28:00PM -0400, Karen Lewellen wrote:
Hi Len, Your wisdom here brings up a slightly different question then. for those who want to giggle a bit, I am sincere that everything for me is wired. I imagine in this case I end up with more than one modem in my house, and understand this may be very smart indeed. That my television can operate apart from what my personal Internet is doing. So, two questions. First, is this common?
At my previous house I had VDSL for internet and rogers cable for TV. Different connections from different companies. Nothing special required for it to work.
Second, are there tools, equipment that make this set up work more efficiently?
It should not require anything special. If the internet connection uses cable lines from rogers (or fiber if you somehow are in one of the areas rogers has fiber now), goes to a router provided by the ISP, and you plug your stuff into the network ports on it and it should just work. For the TV it should be connected however Bell does their connections these days. I haven't dealt with Bell TV stuff myself in years so I suspect it is different than what I remember.
As for the move, well yes and it depends. One personal frustration has been the hunting process itself, sites that are not accessible, experiencing over and over again the stereotype screening. Those experiencing disabilities, speaking personally, face far more challenges around what others believe that means, then the disability experience on its own. My idea of a desired layout often differs from others.. I am not fond of wide open empty spaces for example. Do not get me started on real estate agents, ending up underground and so forth.
I have noticed that houses for sale (and I imagine for rent is similar) do not list accessibility features (or lack thereof) at all. Having sold a house in the last year, I know the forms actually have places to list such things, but it seems no one ever does, and the listings certainly never reflect it. And trying to find an agent willing to find places with such features seems impossible. All they ever seem to care about is your budget. In our case we were looking for a place where my inlaws could potentially move in with us, which requires that it be possible to use a wheelchair in the house. We ended up buying a new build from a builder that offered an elevator as an option and then getting a few things customized to make it more wheelchair accessible.
at the end of the day though? its 4 walls a sealing and a floor that does not move. If my wishes are respected, and I have solid landmarks, it ends up fine. Besides opening all the boxes I just packed can feel a bit like Christmas. as in wow where did that come from!
Yes unpacking can be fun. And a lot of work depending on the number of boxes and how well organized it was when getting packed. -- Len Sorensen
Well..it has been a creative few days. Moved on Thursday, choosing carrytel. It took two trips all the way to their office in North York because first they gave me a modem without activation, and then they gave me a modem that while activated still did not work. Took a Rogers tech to come here and drill a hole for a new cable port, in spite of the several ones already here. Which brings me to bell. My landlord actually sold me his fibe TV box, the VIP 2502, which needs a home hub 3000 4000 or git hub model unknown. Save that bell is refusing to provide me with the modem at all. So, I am going to visit a bell corporate store tomorrow with the box and plead my case in person. To be forthright I am stunned at the prices from other cable providers, and how little the cRTC build your own package is actually followed. Fingers crossed I have television again before another work crisis. Lost out on two important tasks this past weekend. Best, Karen
On Mon, 9 Jun 2025 at 22:35, Karen Lewellen via talk <talk@gtalug.org> wrote:
My landlord actually sold me his fibe TV box, the VIP 2502, which needs a home hub 3000 4000 or git hub model unknown. Save that bell is refusing to provide me with the modem at all.
This would depend on whether or not Bell allows you to subscribe to TV services unbundled from a Bell internet plan. Do you know if this is the case? -- Scott
Yes, there is a plan just for fibe, with the Internet to support Fibe tv only. On Tue, 10 Jun 2025, Scott Allen wrote:
On Mon, 9 Jun 2025 at 22:35, Karen Lewellen via talk <talk@gtalug.org> wrote:
My landlord actually sold me his fibe TV box, the VIP 2502, which needs a home hub 3000 4000 or git hub model unknown. Save that bell is refusing to provide me with the modem at all.
This would depend on whether or not Bell allows you to subscribe to TV services unbundled from a Bell internet plan. Do you know if this is the case?
-- Scott
(1) I have Cable 100 from CarryTel.ca. They have other plans, but it depends on your location. For my location, Cable 100 and Cable 1000 are the only option. (2) FreedomMobile.ca has Cable 30 promo. $39 for 1 year, and $45 regular. On 2025-05-31 23:28, Karen Lewellen via talk wrote:
Hi folks, I am moving, and my new situation does not include Internet in the rent. stunning how many landlords include it these days though. Anyway its been almost 4 years since I shopped for a plan. Add that all my stuff is wired, along with my likely keeping Fibe with bell, and I have two questions. First, can I say find a good internet plan elsewhere, yet use bell for television? I run DOS. I do not watch movies on my computer. While I do download audio, its not likely to be expansive. that a bell sells rep said I had to buy unlimited, at $75, seemed well goofy. So, just what do those numbers really mean in terms of real value? Could I find a better price for Internet, keeping cable with them? many moons ago I did that very thing, cable was with Rogers, home phone and Internet with bell..but this was years ago. Ideas? Cheers, Karen
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Someone I know shared that they use carrytel for Internet, and a different service for television. Did not think freedom mobile provided internet for non-mobile settings like mine though. thanks for all the ideas folks, Karen On Sun, 1 Jun 2025, William Park via talk wrote:
(1) I have Cable 100 from CarryTel.ca. They have other plans, but it depends on your location. For my location, Cable 100 and Cable 1000 are the only option.
(2) FreedomMobile.ca has Cable 30 promo. $39 for 1 year, and $45 regular.
On 2025-05-31 23:28, Karen Lewellen via talk wrote:
Hi folks, I am moving, and my new situation does not include Internet in the rent. stunning how many landlords include it these days though. Anyway its been almost 4 years since I shopped for a plan. Add that all my stuff is wired, along with my likely keeping Fibe with bell, and I have two questions. First, can I say find a good internet plan elsewhere, yet use bell for television? I run DOS. I do not watch movies on my computer. While I do download audio, its not likely to be expansive. that a bell sells rep said I had to buy unlimited, at $75, seemed well goofy. So, just what do those numbers really mean in terms of real value? Could I find a better price for Internet, keeping cable with them? many moons ago I did that very thing, cable was with Rogers, home phone and Internet with bell..but this was years ago. Ideas? Cheers, Karen
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Here's what I think I know about broadband providers in Toronto. Broadband internet comes into houses on cables owned by Rogers or Bell. A very few large buildings are serviced by Beanfield. Rogers old: co-ax cable Bell old: copper pair Rogers and Bell new: optical fibre to the home. Beware: Bell Fibe does not mean fibre. The CRTC requires the owners of these cables to allow third-party ISPs to sell services to be delivered over these "last mile" facilities. Complicating matters is that a lot of these third parties are actually owned by Bell or Rogers. Bell is ripping out copper, replacing it with fibre. To a lesser extent, Rogers is ripping out co-ax cable, replacing it with fibre. I have seen indications that they don't build out fibre where the other company has already done so, lowering competition. Bell and Rogers are resisting allowing resellers access to the fibre cables. As I understand it, this is defying CRTC regulations. (I'm currently in trouble because my copper connection is being decommissioned. I'm losing my 3rd party ISP even though they provide services that Bell refuses to provide.) Bell and Rogers each want to provide you a bundle: internet, home phone, TV. On the face of it, these bundles are often good deals. There are regularly very good bundle prices that expire after a year of two. When you use a third party ISP for internet on that cable, you cannot buy home phone or TV from Bell or Rogers. To make up for this, the ISP may well offer a IP TV streaming TV package and an IP phone package. I don't know how satisfactory those are. I don't know all the true third party ISPs. I deal with Vybe Networks (upstream: Colosseum) and Teksavvy. I suspect that Freedom Mobile is a 3rd party ISP. Judging by the speeds they offer my address, they are using Rogers co-ax here. They offer some kind of TV service over their internet service. This doesn't seem to have anything to do with their mobile services. Telus may or may not offer me service. Their web site teases.
On Mon, 2 Jun 2025 at 00:41, D. Hugh Redelmeier via talk <talk@gtalug.org> wrote:
When you use a third party ISP for internet on that cable, you cannot buy home phone or TV from Bell or Rogers.
Recently, Rogers dropped support for my older model TV boxes on their Nextbox TV service (in anticipation of planning to later shut down the service altogether). When I talked to them about my options, I told them I wanted to keep my current ISP, which was Teksavvy (over Rogers coax). They said I would have to change my TV service to Rogers Xfinity but could have that separately, still using Teksavvy as my ISP. So, the above quote isn't entirely true. And for those wondering; in the end, I decided to cancel my Rogers account entirely and switched to Teksavvy's IPTV service, still with Teksavvy ISP over Rogers coax. I also had, and still have, a VoIP "landline" phone service using Ooma. -- Scott
Hello Hugh, I beg to disagree with your statement: Beware: Bell Fibe does not mean fibre. When the Bell technician installed the Bell Fibe service in my apartment, I went with him to the building's basement utility room, where he checked to confirm that red-coloured luminosity was present on the fibre leading to my apartment. I also watched him checking the two small plastic Bell Fibe service termination boxes already mounted on the walls of my apartment. One showed no luminosity but the other showed red luminosity. The technician also checked for the same red luminosity at the end of the thin white plastic fibre cable leading from the plastic Bell Fibe service termination box, to the wall-mounted French-made fibre modem, before he stapled to the wall, the fibre cable run * * * * * * I asked the technician about the warning in the Bell Fibe contract, regarding power loss to the wall-mounted modem interrupting my fibre service. He told me that, indeed, power loss at the modem will take down modem operation, but, all the rest of the way, from the fibre modem, to the Bell end of the fibre run at Bell's integration to global network connectivity, is pure passive fibre. So no utility pole power outage will impact actual Bell fibre physical continuity. So, I am very sure that my Bell Fibe service really is running as pure light all the way from: (A) it's connection to the wall-mounted fibre modem in my apartment, to: (B) the Bell "central office". So long as there is power to the fibre modem in my apartment, no other Toronto Hydro outage should disrupt Bell fibre physical continuity (I assume Bell equipment at the Bell end of the fibre run has UPS). * * * * * * Being a pathologically frugal old SOB, I chose not to invest in a battery-backed UPS. To the best of my recollection, there has been only one Toronto Hydro outage during the many years since the switch to Bell fibre. Bell fibre service already costs an outrageously excessive amount. So I can live with the very rare occurrence of a power outage disconnecting my home phone and Internet connectivity. And if the power outage affects the apartment building where I live, my desktop PC will be down anyway. Since I got Bell fibre service, the Bell fibre system itself in my neighbourhood, has only had one Bell equipment outage somewhere outside my apartment building. * * * * * * Bell service fees are pure robbery, but i stick with Bell for: super-fast bandwidth, superb service reliability and friendly knowledgeable support. Rogers has such a terrible reputation, I will not consider them. So long as Rogers runs over shared co-axial cable, I would expect variable bandwidth to plague the Rogers service. Unfortunately, _start.ca_ does not offer service in my neighbourhood. * * * * * * Some day in the far future (probably long after my expiration date), Bell will be forced to accept third-party services to piggy-back on its fibre. If a hyper-reliable bargain-priced third-party service appears in my neighbourhood, before my earthly demise, it will be bye-bye Bell for me. Until then, I am grumblingly content to make the greedy execs at the top of the Bell heap, laugh all the way to the bank (or other financial storehouse), where Bell stashes its disgracefully huge cash pile. Steve Petrie apetrie@aspetrie.net 416-233-6116 -------- Original Message -------- SUBJECT: Re: [GTALUG] on internet speeds and crossing providers? DATE: 2025-06-02 00:40 FROM: "D. Hugh Redelmeier via talk" <talk@gtalug.org> TO: Karen Lewellen via talk <talk@gtalug.org> Here's what I think I know about broadband providers in Toronto. Broadband internet comes into houses on cables owned by Rogers or Bell. A very few large buildings are serviced by Beanfield. Rogers old: co-ax cable Bell old: copper pair Rogers and Bell new: optical fibre to the home. Beware: Bell Fibe does not mean fibre. The CRTC requires the owners of these cables to allow third-party ISPs to sell services to be delivered over these "last mile" facilities. Complicating matters is that a lot of these third parties are actually owned by Bell or Rogers. Bell is ripping out copper, replacing it with fibre. To a lesser extent, Rogers is ripping out co-ax cable, replacing it with fibre. I have seen indications that they don't build out fibre where the other company has already done so, lowering competition. Bell and Rogers are resisting allowing resellers access to the fibre cables. As I understand it, this is defying CRTC regulations. (I'm currently in trouble because my copper connection is being decommissioned. I'm losing my 3rd party ISP even though they provide services that Bell refuses to provide.) Bell and Rogers each want to provide you a bundle: internet, home phone, TV. On the face of it, these bundles are often good deals. There are regularly very good bundle prices that expire after a year of two. When you use a third party ISP for internet on that cable, you cannot buy home phone or TV from Bell or Rogers. To make up for this, the ISP may well offer a IP TV streaming TV package and an IP phone package. I don't know how satisfactory those are. I don't know all the true third party ISPs. I deal with Vybe Networks (upstream: Colosseum) and Teksavvy. I suspect that Freedom Mobile is a 3rd party ISP. Judging by the speeds they offer my address, they are using Rogers co-ax here. They offer some kind of TV service over their internet service. This doesn't seem to have anything to do with their mobile services. Telus may or may not offer me service. Their web site teases. --- Post to this mailing list talk@gtalug.org Unsubscribe from this mailing list https://gtalug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
Minor niggle: Fibe can mean fibre to the home, or fibre to a neighborhood box. The did the latter in my area, to get it up quickly. My building is so old that the Bell connections are three-wire (:-)) Rogers provides my service, via cables stapled to the outside of the building and fed in through holes in the concrete. I expect Bell to offer the same at some point. --dave On 6/2/25 09:20, Steve Petrie via talk wrote:
*Hello Hugh,*
I beg to disagree with your statement: *Beware: Bell Fibe does not mean fibre.*
When the Bell technician installed the Bell Fibe service in my apartment, I went with him to the building's basement utility room, where he checked to confirm that red-coloured luminosity was present on the fibre leading to my apartment.
I also watched him checking the two small plastic Bell Fibe service termination boxes already mounted on the walls of my apartment. One showed no luminosity but the other showed red luminosity.
The technician also checked for the same red luminosity at the end of the thin white plastic fibre cable leading from the plastic Bell Fibe service termination box, to the wall-mounted French-made fibre modem, before he stapled to the wall, the fibre cable run
* * * * * *
I asked the technician about the warning in the Bell Fibe contract, regarding power loss to the wall-mounted modem interrupting my fibre service.
He told me that, indeed, power loss at the modem will take down modem operation, but, all the rest of the way, from the fibre modem, to the Bell end of the fibre run at Bell's integration to global network connectivity, is *pure passive fibre*. So no utility pole power outage will impact actual Bell fibre physical continuity.
*So, I am very sure that my Bell Fibe service really is running as pure light all the way from: (A) it's connection to the wall-mounted fibre modem in my apartment, to: (B) the Bell "central office".*
*So long as there is power to the fibre modem in my apartment, no other Toronto Hydro outage should disrupt Bell fibre physical continuity (I assume Bell equipment at the Bell end of the fibre run has UPS). *
* * * * * *
Being a *pathologically frugal old SOB*, I chose not to invest in a battery-backed UPS. To the best of my recollection, there has been only one Toronto Hydro outage during the many years since the switch to Bell fibre.
Bell fibre service already costs an *outrageously excessive amount*. So I can live with the very rare occurrence of a power outage disconnecting my home phone and Internet connectivity.
And if the power outage affects the apartment building where I live, my desktop PC will be down anyway.
Since I got Bell fibre service, the Bell fibre system itself in my neighbourhood, has only had one Bell equipment outage somewhere outside my apartment building.
* * * * * *
Bell service fees are pure robbery, but i stick with Bell for: super-fast bandwidth, superb service reliability and friendly knowledgeable support.
Rogers has such a terrible reputation, I will not consider them. So long as Rogers runs over shared co-axial cable, I would expect variable bandwidth to plague the Rogers service.
Unfortunately, /*start.ca*/ does not offer service in my neighbourhood.
* * * * * *
Some day in the far future (probably long after my expiration date), Bell will be forced to accept third-party services to piggy-back on its fibre.
If a hyper-reliable bargain-priced third-party service appears in my neighbourhood, before my earthly demise, it will be bye-bye Bell for me.
Until then, I am grumblingly content to make the greedy execs at the top of the Bell heap, laugh all the way to the bank (or other financial storehouse), where Bell stashes its disgracefully huge cash pile.
*Steve Petrie*
apetrie@aspetrie.net 416-233-6116
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: [GTALUG] on internet speeds and crossing providers? Date: 2025-06-02 00:40 From: "D. Hugh Redelmeier via talk" <talk@gtalug.org> To: Karen Lewellen via talk <talk@gtalug.org>
Here's what I think I know about broadband providers in Toronto.
Broadband internet comes into houses on cables owned by Rogers or Bell. A very few large buildings are serviced by Beanfield. Rogers old: co-ax cable Bell old: copper pair Rogers and Bell new: optical fibre to the home. Beware: Bell Fibe does not mean fibre.
The CRTC requires the owners of these cables to allow third-party ISPs to sell services to be delivered over these "last mile" facilities. Complicating matters is that a lot of these third parties are actually owned by Bell or Rogers.
Bell is ripping out copper, replacing it with fibre. To a lesser extent, Rogers is ripping out co-ax cable, replacing it with fibre. I have seen indications that they don't build out fibre where the other company has already done so, lowering competition.
Bell and Rogers are resisting allowing resellers access to the fibre cables. As I understand it, this is defying CRTC regulations.
(I'm currently in trouble because my copper connection is being decommissioned. I'm losing my 3rd party ISP even though they provide services that Bell refuses to provide.)
Bell and Rogers each want to provide you a bundle: internet, home phone, TV. On the face of it, these bundles are often good deals. There are regularly very good bundle prices that expire after a year of two.
When you use a third party ISP for internet on that cable, you cannot buy home phone or TV from Bell or Rogers. To make up for this, the ISP may well offer a IP TV streaming TV package and an IP phone package. I don't know how satisfactory those are.
I don't know all the true third party ISPs. I deal with Vybe Networks (upstream: Colosseum) and Teksavvy.
I suspect that Freedom Mobile is a 3rd party ISP. Judging by the speeds they offer my address, they are using Rogers co-ax here. They offer some kind of TV service over their internet service. This doesn't seem to have anything to do with their mobile services.
Telus may or may not offer me service. Their web site teases. --- Post to this mailing list talk@gtalug.org Unsubscribe from this mailing list https://gtalug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
--- Post to this mailing listtalk@gtalug.org Unsubscribe from this mailing listhttps://gtalug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
-- David Collier-Brown, | Always do right. This will gratify System Programmer and Author | some people and astonish the rest davecb@spamcop.net | -- Mark Twain
On 6/2/25 09:20, Steve Petrie via talk wrote:
I beg to disagree with your statement: *Beware: Bell Fibe does not mean fibre.*
It can mean fibre or it can mean copper. In many areas, Bell runs fibre to a node in the neighbourhood and copper pairs for the "last mile" (1.6 Km). Rogers does similar, though over coax instead of twisted pairs.
On Mon, Jun 02, 2025 at 09:20:15AM -0400, Steve Petrie via talk wrote:
I beg to disagree with your statement: Beware: Bell Fibe does not mean fibre.
I think it was meant to mean: Bell Fibe does not necesarily mean fibre. Some places it is fibre to the home, some places it is fibre to the node and then VDSL2 to the home. The name certainly wants to imply it is a fibre connection. -- Len Sorensen
On Mon, Jun 02, 2025 at 12:40:57AM -0400, D. Hugh Redelmeier via talk wrote:
Here's what I think I know about broadband providers in Toronto.
Broadband internet comes into houses on cables owned by Rogers or Bell. A very few large buildings are serviced by Beanfield. Rogers old: co-ax cable Bell old: copper pair Rogers and Bell new: optical fibre to the home. Beware: Bell Fibe does not mean fibre.
The CRTC requires the owners of these cables to allow third-party ISPs to sell services to be delivered over these "last mile" facilities. Complicating matters is that a lot of these third parties are actually owned by Bell or Rogers.
Bell is ripping out copper, replacing it with fibre. To a lesser extent, Rogers is ripping out co-ax cable, replacing it with fibre. I have seen indications that they don't build out fibre where the other company has already done so, lowering competition.
I was actually surprised to notice I have two fibres at the side of my house. One labeled rogers, the other labeled Bell. I guess they both wanted to be able to get customers in the area. I initially thought only Rogers was here given Bell initially said they didn't have service in the area, but now that has changed.
Bell and Rogers are resisting allowing resellers access to the fibre cables. As I understand it, this is defying CRTC regulations.
Bell is allowing access to their fibre here. For example I could get service from teksavvy now if I wanted to switch. 1.5G/940M is what they list as the only option.
(I'm currently in trouble because my copper connection is being decommissioned. I'm losing my 3rd party ISP even though they provide services that Bell refuses to provide.)
Bell and Rogers each want to provide you a bundle: internet, home phone, TV. On the face of it, these bundles are often good deals. There are regularly very good bundle prices that expire after a year of two.
Yeah they sure like their bundles.
When you use a third party ISP for internet on that cable, you cannot buy home phone or TV from Bell or Rogers. To make up for this, the ISP may well offer a IP TV streaming TV package and an IP phone package. I don't know how satisfactory those are.
I don't know all the true third party ISPs. I deal with Vybe Networks (upstream: Colosseum) and Teksavvy.
I suspect that Freedom Mobile is a 3rd party ISP. Judging by the speeds they offer my address, they are using Rogers co-ax here. They offer some kind of TV service over their internet service. This doesn't seem to have anything to do with their mobile services.
Freedom mobile is owned by videotron owned by quebecor. Used to be owned by Shaw. -- Len Sorensen
From: Lennart Sorensen via talk <talk@gtalug.org>
I was actually surprised to notice I have two fibres at the side of my house. One labeled rogers, the other labeled Bell. I guess they both wanted to be able to get customers in the area. I initially thought only Rogers was here given Bell initially said they didn't have service in the area, but now that has changed.
Did your house replace an old one or was it a "green field" development? My guess is that, based on a very rough idea of where you are, it was a green field development (it is expensive to throw away a built home so usually that is in the city where the houses are older and the land value has gone up a lot). It used to be the case that green-field developers would choose which of Rogers or Bell to contract to wire up their development. Not both. Thus Rogers and Bell would compete in how much they rewarded the developer. That may have changed -- I considered it corrupt and so should the CRTC or Competition Bureau. The developers can be builders but they can also sell serviced lots to builders. I would guess that custom home builders are not developers (different scale of operation).
Bell and Rogers are resisting allowing resellers access to the fibre cables. As I understand it, this is defying CRTC regulations.
Bell is allowing access to their fibre here. For example I could get service from teksavvy now if I wanted to switch. 1.5G/940M is what they list as the only option.
Teksavvy is the only genuine third party ISP that I've seen reselling fibre. I have not done a search. They are quite expensive. Probably due to tariffs set by the CRTC (under the direction of the cabinet after the CRTC set a lower tariff). I suspect they pay more to Bell than you would. I don't know why BCE is suffering hard times. They were forced to halve their dividend recently. They have spent a lot building out fibre and the interest rate on debt has gone up a lot.
Freedom mobile is owned by videotron owned by quebecor. Used to be owned by Shaw.
But for cables into the house, in the GTA, I think that they are just a third party ISP. I don't know that, I infer it.
On 6/2/25 15:54, D. Hugh Redelmeier via talk wrote:
It used to be the case that green-field developers would choose which of Rogers or Bell to contract to wire up their development. Not both.
My condo was built 32 years ago and had both Bell and McLean Hunter. Shortly after I moved in, Rogers bought MH. Back then Bell was phone only and Rogers TV only. Neither had Internet. This was around the time I first got on the Internet via dial up, from io.org with a SLIP connection, as PPP wasn't yet popular. Since I had a SLIP connection, I had a static IP address, as it couldn't automatically configure the connection the way PPP does.
All these rich deep details has me wondering why no one has recommended Toronto Freenet as an option? Kare On Mon, 2 Jun 2025, James Knott via talk wrote:
On 6/2/25 15:54, D. Hugh Redelmeier via talk wrote:
It used to be the case that green-field developers would choose which of Rogers or Bell to contract to wire up their development. Not both.
My condo was built 32 years ago and had both Bell and McLean Hunter. Shortly after I moved in, Rogers bought MH. Back then Bell was phone only and Rogers TV only. Neither had Internet. This was around the time I first got on the Internet via dial up, from io.org with a SLIP connection, as PPP wasn't yet popular. Since I had a SLIP connection, I had a static IP address, as it couldn't automatically configure the connection the way PPP does. --- Post to this mailing list talk@gtalug.org Unsubscribe from this mailing list https://gtalug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
On Mon, Jun 2, 2025 at 11:01 PM Karen Lewellen via talk <talk@gtalug.org> wrote:
All these rich deep details has me wondering why no one has recommended Toronto Freenet as an option? Kare
The Freenet concept is great and I wish TF well. Some of its Board members are still subscribed here, I believe. If my family and business uses did not require 24/7 support I might consider them. Their equivalent service of what I have now costs $4 per month less than I pay Teksavvy. But to me the support is indeed everything. Outages that a modem reboot won't fix are infrequent but they do happen. And if they do and I'm down at 2am I can call Teksavvy, on the other end is someone who knows both my service and my modem. Cable and DSL (and I might assume fiber) modems for consumers are pretty stupid devices with at most a few idiot lights to tell you the device's state. (My current cable modem has but a single idiot light but it can pulse and change colour.) This is not something I can easily diagnose myself, YMMV. The Freenet approach to modem acquisition does not give me confidence that calling for support at 2am will reach a first-line tech who is immediately capable of running remote diagnostics on my hardware. Teksavvy can because they supply (free of charge, not rented separately) my modem, and are intimately familiar with its make and model. When I upgraded my service a few years ago they swapped out my modem with another model able to handle the higher speed. Last year I ran into a problem that was the result of a modem gone flaky. The Teksavvy support tech was able to determine this remotely and immediately(*) dispatched a replacement. How far would such an issue get resolved by Freenet? BYOD and one-off device sales work for low-tier mobile providers like Public Mobile, and it may work for people with the time to research what works, but I have had my butt saved on multiple occasions by Techsavvy support that knows the entirety of my Internet connection. I don't think this level of service is matched anywhere, let alone by a nonprofit that relies on community support. If I'm wrong about Freenet support I encourage being corrected by someone who knows better. - Evan (*) The one Achilles heel of Teksavvy is that they are located in Chatham and don't have a GTA presence. If your modem is dead they have to send it (they pay round trip) by courier. and they only ship hardware Monday to Friday. What this means is that, even using overnight courier, if the modem dies on Friday afternoon you won't get the replacement until Tuesday which means potentially four days down, worst case. This happened to me once but they credited me for the days down and IMO that's STILL a better option than needing to go emergency shopping for a new cable or dsl or fiber modem and having to guess at compatibility.
I am thrilled teksavy treats you like a decent human being. In spite of promising me otherwise, Teksavy sent my landline phone number back to bell..without warning. I lost recorded evidence for the sex assault case still pending at the HRTO. Its funny, at the time I was seeking to become a landline customer, I told them I knew a current landline customer..they insisted, that it was not a service they could provide spending three months trying to find charges they likely charge you monthly, then said as a bell reseller their hands were tied when bell got paid for sending installers, then refused to do the work. The phone number thing really made me angry, all they had to do was warn me in advance, I was in contact with Senior management. They did not, cost me something I could not replace, and I still do not know how to get the number back from Bell either. On Tue, 3 Jun 2025, Evan Leibovitch wrote:
On Mon, Jun 2, 2025 at 11:01 PM Karen Lewellen via talk <talk@gtalug.org> wrote:
All these rich deep details has me wondering why no one has recommended Toronto Freenet as an option? Kare
The Freenet concept is great and I wish TF well. Some of its Board members are still subscribed here, I believe.
If my family and business uses did not require 24/7 support I might consider them. Their equivalent service of what I have now costs $4 per month less than I pay Teksavvy.
But to me the support is indeed everything. Outages that a modem reboot won't fix are infrequent but they do happen. And if they do and I'm down at 2am I can call Teksavvy, on the other end is someone who knows both my service and my modem. Cable and DSL (and I might assume fiber) modems for consumers are pretty stupid devices with at most a few idiot lights to tell you the device's state. (My current cable modem has but a single idiot light but it can pulse and change colour.) This is not something I can easily diagnose myself, YMMV.
The Freenet approach to modem acquisition does not give me confidence that calling for support at 2am will reach a first-line tech who is immediately capable of running remote diagnostics on my hardware. Teksavvy can because they supply (free of charge, not rented separately) my modem, and are intimately familiar with its make and model. When I upgraded my service a few years ago they swapped out my modem with another model able to handle the higher speed.
Last year I ran into a problem that was the result of a modem gone flaky. The Teksavvy support tech was able to determine this remotely and immediately(*) dispatched a replacement. How far would such an issue get resolved by Freenet? BYOD and one-off device sales work for low-tier mobile providers like Public Mobile, and it may work for people with the time to research what works, but I have had my butt saved on multiple occasions by Techsavvy support that knows the entirety of my Internet connection. I don't think this level of service is matched anywhere, let alone by a nonprofit that relies on community support.
If I'm wrong about Freenet support I encourage being corrected by someone who knows better.
- Evan
(*) The one Achilles heel of Teksavvy is that they are located in Chatham and don't have a GTA presence. If your modem is dead they have to send it (they pay round trip) by courier. and they only ship hardware Monday to Friday. What this means is that, even using overnight courier, if the modem dies on Friday afternoon you won't get the replacement until Tuesday which means potentially four days down, worst case. This happened to me once but they credited me for the days down and IMO that's STILL a better option than needing to go emergency shopping for a new cable or dsl or fiber modem and having to guess at compatibility.
On Mon, Jun 02, 2025 at 03:54:07PM -0400, D. Hugh Redelmeier via talk wrote:
Did your house replace an old one or was it a "green field" development? My guess is that, based on a very rough idea of where you are, it was a green field development (it is expensive to throw away a built home so usually that is in the city where the houses are older and the land value has gone up a lot).
Green field.
It used to be the case that green-field developers would choose which of Rogers or Bell to contract to wire up their development. Not both. Thus Rogers and Bell would compete in how much they rewarded the developer. That may have changed -- I considered it corrupt and so should the CRTC or Competition Bureau.
Yeah I had actually assumed that was the case and only rogers was here, but apparently not. Rogers did seem to be first at having service actually available though.
The developers can be builders but they can also sell serviced lots to builders. I would guess that custom home builders are not developers (different scale of operation).
There are four developers sharing lots in this development. No idea how such arrangements work, but they seem pretty common these days.
Teksavvy is the only genuine third party ISP that I've seen reselling fibre. I have not done a search. They are quite expensive. Probably due to tariffs set by the CRTC (under the direction of the cabinet after the CRTC set a lower tariff). I suspect they pay more to Bell than you would.
Bell wants $130 per month for 1.5Gbit, and teksavvy wants $115 per month for the same thing. Bell offers other speeds both lower and higher, teksavvy has just the one.
I don't know why BCE is suffering hard times. They were forced to halve their dividend recently. They have spent a lot building out fibre and the interest rate on debt has gone up a lot.
Maybe if they were nicer to customers they would have more of them. No idea. Maybe they spent too much money buying TV stations and such.
But for cables into the house, in the GTA, I think that they are just a third party ISP. I don't know that, I infer it.
Oh almost certainly that is the case. -- Len Sorensen
Speaking personally, I am stunned that the removal or decommissioning of sources was allowed to happen without public consultation. Indeed bell and rogers are just buying up these smaller companies. When I called comwave for example, and chose new services, I was sent to a rogers rep who just gave me the comwave number. start.ca was frankly worse. I have a medically documented need for analog, teksavvy and I are still at the CCTS because I got contracted a phone only for bell Techs to show up and refuse. There is analog infrastructure in my new apartment..more than likely I am going to end up using one of those devises that lets You put a sim card in it, connect an analog phone, and get service. that would be with PC mobile, so I get optimum points..unless my new landlord tells me the line is currently active. What I find bothersome is indeed that what bell and Rogers are doing Internet wise violates cRTC rules with no consumer protection at all it seems. Karen On Mon, 2 Jun 2025, D. Hugh Redelmeier via talk wrote:
Here's what I think I know about broadband providers in Toronto.
Broadband internet comes into houses on cables owned by Rogers or Bell. A very few large buildings are serviced by Beanfield. Rogers old: co-ax cable Bell old: copper pair Rogers and Bell new: optical fibre to the home. Beware: Bell Fibe does not mean fibre.
The CRTC requires the owners of these cables to allow third-party ISPs to sell services to be delivered over these "last mile" facilities. Complicating matters is that a lot of these third parties are actually owned by Bell or Rogers.
Bell is ripping out copper, replacing it with fibre. To a lesser extent, Rogers is ripping out co-ax cable, replacing it with fibre. I have seen indications that they don't build out fibre where the other company has already done so, lowering competition.
Bell and Rogers are resisting allowing resellers access to the fibre cables. As I understand it, this is defying CRTC regulations.
(I'm currently in trouble because my copper connection is being decommissioned. I'm losing my 3rd party ISP even though they provide services that Bell refuses to provide.)
Bell and Rogers each want to provide you a bundle: internet, home phone, TV. On the face of it, these bundles are often good deals. There are regularly very good bundle prices that expire after a year of two.
When you use a third party ISP for internet on that cable, you cannot buy home phone or TV from Bell or Rogers. To make up for this, the ISP may well offer a IP TV streaming TV package and an IP phone package. I don't know how satisfactory those are.
I don't know all the true third party ISPs. I deal with Vybe Networks (upstream: Colosseum) and Teksavvy.
I suspect that Freedom Mobile is a 3rd party ISP. Judging by the speeds they offer my address, they are using Rogers co-ax here. They offer some kind of TV service over their internet service. This doesn't seem to have anything to do with their mobile services.
Telus may or may not offer me service. Their web site teases. --- Post to this mailing list talk@gtalug.org Unsubscribe from this mailing list https://gtalug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
I have fibre to the house (Brampton) and I was with Bell starting from covid because Cable internet around here sucks and during covid with so many people working from home I needed something that wouldn't bog down. Up till about 6-7 months I was using Bell and prices just kept doing up. Found https://acanac.com/ had fibre to the home for a fraction of the cost of Bell which was upto just over $90 a month. I got into acanac with the same speeds 500/500 for $44 all in same speed same fibre line. The funny thing is that acanac is a company that Bell bought. On Sat, May 31, 2025 at 11:29 PM Karen Lewellen via talk <talk@gtalug.org> wrote:
Hi folks, I am moving, and my new situation does not include Internet in the rent. stunning how many landlords include it these days though. Anyway its been almost 4 years since I shopped for a plan. Add that all my stuff is wired, along with my likely keeping Fibe with bell, and I have two questions. First, can I say find a good internet plan elsewhere, yet use bell for television? I run DOS. I do not watch movies on my computer. While I do download audio, its not likely to be expansive. that a bell sells rep said I had to buy unlimited, at $75, seemed well goofy. So, just what do those numbers really mean in terms of real value? Could I find a better price for Internet, keeping cable with them? many moons ago I did that very thing, cable was with Rogers, home phone and Internet with bell..but this was years ago. Ideas? Cheers, Karen
--- Post to this mailing list talk@gtalug.org Unsubscribe from this mailing list https://gtalug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
Have a human contact? your link presents a cloudflare page. On Mon, 2 Jun 2025, Digiital aka David via talk wrote:
I have fibre to the house (Brampton) and I was with Bell starting from covid because Cable internet around here sucks and during covid with so many people working from home I needed something that wouldn't bog down. Up till about 6-7 months I was using Bell and prices just kept doing up. Found https://acanac.com/ had fibre to the home for a fraction of the cost of Bell which was upto just over $90 a month. I got into acanac with the same speeds 500/500 for $44 all in same speed same fibre line. The funny thing is that acanac is a company that Bell bought.
On Sat, May 31, 2025 at 11:29 PM Karen Lewellen via talk <talk@gtalug.org> wrote:
Hi folks, I am moving, and my new situation does not include Internet in the rent. stunning how many landlords include it these days though. Anyway its been almost 4 years since I shopped for a plan. Add that all my stuff is wired, along with my likely keeping Fibe with bell, and I have two questions. First, can I say find a good internet plan elsewhere, yet use bell for television? I run DOS. I do not watch movies on my computer. While I do download audio, its not likely to be expansive. that a bell sells rep said I had to buy unlimited, at $75, seemed well goofy. So, just what do those numbers really mean in terms of real value? Could I find a better price for Internet, keeping cable with them? many moons ago I did that very thing, cable was with Rogers, home phone and Internet with bell..but this was years ago. Ideas? Cheers, Karen
--- Post to this mailing list talk@gtalug.org Unsubscribe from this mailing list https://gtalug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
Happy with Teksavvy for both Internet and landline, I've been with them for a very long time. I started with DSL service and now have cable. My street has fibre but I can't justify $100 per month. While its prices are good, I stay with Teksavvy because of the tech support. Even at 3 AM they're always friendly, moreover they have a good knack for determining and then respecting the tech literacy level of the caller. The usual line from Bell and Rogers sales reps is that Teksavvy customers are de-prioritised because they're a reseller compared to being directly served by the telcos. This is not my experience. When escalation to Rogers or Bell happens -- and it has for me a few times over the decades -- Teksavvy stays on top of the incident and ensures it's addressed within the promised timeframe. Based on what Karen described as her needs, if Teksavvy services her address she shouldn't have to spend more than $39 per month. Maybe even the $30 per month plan will suffice. I happily recommend them. Even the sales phone number at 866-415-1845 operates 24/7. I happily recommend them. - Evan
Currently teksavy and I remain at the ccts..because they failed to insure my contracted landline was installed. Instead, without tracking their actions, they sent bell technicians to my house over and over again believing whatever story they told, even if the tech say never entered my house, left before I came tot he door, claimed I had a canceled account and so forth. While they are indeed terrific on the phone, their installers are with bell. Would love to use them for Internet, but my experience was beyond poor, it was reprehensible, with their just saying..hey we are only a bell reseller, what can we do? Kare On Tue, 3 Jun 2025, Evan Leibovitch wrote:
Happy with Teksavvy for both Internet and landline, I've been with them for a very long time. I started with DSL service and now have cable. My street has fibre but I can't justify $100 per month.
While its prices are good, I stay with Teksavvy because of the tech support. Even at 3 AM they're always friendly, moreover they have a good knack for determining and then respecting the tech literacy level of the caller.
The usual line from Bell and Rogers sales reps is that Teksavvy customers are de-prioritised because they're a reseller compared to being directly served by the telcos. This is not my experience. When escalation to Rogers or Bell happens -- and it has for me a few times over the decades -- Teksavvy stays on top of the incident and ensures it's addressed within the promised timeframe.
Based on what Karen described as her needs, if Teksavvy services her address she shouldn't have to spend more than $39 per month. Maybe even the $30 per month plan will suffice. I happily recommend them. Even the sales phone number at 866-415-1845 operates 24/7.
I happily recommend them.
- Evan
For some reason Bell decided to put the access node for my side of the block, in a neighbour's backyard. He's ederly and goes on long vacations. At one point he lost the key to his fence, for the backyard. So when I have tech issues I call Teksavvy, they call Bell, Bell comes but can't access his backyard and leaves, repeat this 3 or 4 times until he is finally home. It's an absurdist comedy. On 2025-06-03 11:14, Karen Lewellen via talk wrote:
Currently teksavy and I remain at the ccts..because they failed to insure my contracted landline was installed. Instead, without tracking their actions, they sent bell technicians to my house over and over again believing whatever story they told, even if the tech say never entered my house, left before I came tot he door, claimed I had a canceled account and so forth. While they are indeed terrific on the phone, their installers are with bell. Would love to use them for Internet, but my experience was beyond poor, it was reprehensible, with their just saying..hey we are only a bell reseller, what can we do? Kare
On Tue, 3 Jun 2025, Evan Leibovitch wrote:
Happy with Teksavvy for both Internet and landline, I've been with them for a very long time. I started with DSL service and now have cable. My street has fibre but I can't justify $100 per month.
While its prices are good, I stay with Teksavvy because of the tech support. Even at 3 AM they're always friendly, moreover they have a good knack for determining and then respecting the tech literacy level of the caller.
The usual line from Bell and Rogers sales reps is that Teksavvy customers are de-prioritised because they're a reseller compared to being directly served by the telcos. This is not my experience. When escalation to Rogers or Bell happens -- and it has for me a few times over the decades -- Teksavvy stays on top of the incident and ensures it's addressed within the promised timeframe.
Based on what Karen described as her needs, if Teksavvy services her address she shouldn't have to spend more than $39 per month. Maybe even the $30 per month plan will suffice. I happily recommend them. Even the sales phone number at 866-415-1845 operates 24/7.
I happily recommend them.
- Evan
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teksavy does not keep track of what their contractors do when sent on business. However, they sent the police to my house with no issues whatsoever. If I want an absurdist comedy, I can just use bell instead. On Tue, 3 Jun 2025, Arthur Gron via talk wrote:
For some reason Bell decided to put the access node for my side of the block, in a neighbour's backyard. He's ederly and goes on long vacations. At one point he lost the key to his fence, for the backyard. So when I have tech issues I call Teksavvy, they call Bell, Bell comes but can't access his backyard and leaves, repeat this 3 or 4 times until he is finally home. It's an absurdist comedy.
On 2025-06-03 11:14, Karen Lewellen via talk wrote:
Currently teksavy and I remain at the ccts..because they failed to insure my contracted landline was installed. Instead, without tracking their actions, they sent bell technicians to my house over and over again believing whatever story they told, even if the tech say never entered my house, left before I came tot he door, claimed I had a canceled account and so forth. While they are indeed terrific on the phone, their installers are with bell. Would love to use them for Internet, but my experience was beyond poor, it was reprehensible, with their just saying..hey we are only a bell reseller, what can we do? Kare
On Tue, 3 Jun 2025, Evan Leibovitch wrote:
Happy with Teksavvy for both Internet and landline, I've been with them for a very long time. I started with DSL service and now have cable. My street has fibre but I can't justify $100 per month.
While its prices are good, I stay with Teksavvy because of the tech support. Even at 3 AM they're always friendly, moreover they have a good knack for determining and then respecting the tech literacy level of the caller.
The usual line from Bell and Rogers sales reps is that Teksavvy customers are de-prioritised because they're a reseller compared to being directly served by the telcos. This is not my experience. When escalation to Rogers or Bell happens -- and it has for me a few times over the decades -- Teksavvy stays on top of the incident and ensures it's addressed within the promised timeframe.
Based on what Karen described as her needs, if Teksavvy services her address she shouldn't have to spend more than $39 per month. Maybe even the $30 per month plan will suffice. I happily recommend them. Even the sales phone number at 866-415-1845 operates 24/7.
I happily recommend them.
- Evan
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After following Karen's email threads about ISPs for several years, I believe she would be best off launching her own ISP, that meets her specific needs. I'm only half joking.
On Jun 3, 2025, at 11:45, Karen Lewellen via talk <talk@gtalug.org> wrote:
teksavy does not keep track of what their contractors do when sent on business. However, they sent the police to my house with no issues whatsoever. If I want an absurdist comedy, I can just use bell instead.
On Tue, 3 Jun 2025, Arthur Gron via talk wrote:
For some reason Bell decided to put the access node for my side of the block, in a neighbour's backyard. He's ederly and goes on long vacations. At one point he lost the key to his fence, for the backyard. So when I have tech issues I call Teksavvy, they call Bell, Bell comes but can't access his backyard and leaves, repeat this 3 or 4 times until he is finally home. It's an absurdist comedy.
On 2025-06-03 11:14, Karen Lewellen via talk wrote:
Currently teksavy and I remain at the ccts..because they failed to insure my contracted landline was installed. Instead, without tracking their actions, they sent bell technicians to my house over and over again believing whatever story they told, even if the tech say never entered my house, left before I came tot he door, claimed I had a canceled account and so forth. While they are indeed terrific on the phone, their installers are with bell. Would love to use them for Internet, but my experience was beyond poor, it was reprehensible, with their just saying..hey we are only a bell reseller, what can we do? Kare
On Tue, 3 Jun 2025, Evan Leibovitch wrote:
While its prices are good, I stay with Teksavvy because of the tech support. Even at 3 AM they're always friendly, moreover they have a good knack for determining and then respecting the tech literacy level of the caller. The usual line from Bell and Rogers sales reps is that Teksavvy > customers are de-prioritised because they're a reseller compared to being directly served by the telcos. This is not my experience. When escalation to > Rogers or Bell happens -- and it has for me a few times over the decades -- Teksavvy stays on top of the incident and ensures it's addressed within > the
Happy with Teksavvy for both Internet and landline, I've been with them > for a very long time. I started with DSL service and now have cable. My street has fibre but I can't justify $100 per month. promised timeframe.
Based on what Karen described as her needs, if Teksavvy services her address she shouldn't have to spend more than $39 per month. Maybe even > the $30 per month plan will suffice. I happily recommend them. Even the sales phone number at 866-415-1845 operates 24/7. I happily recommend them. - Evan
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actually? I am considering doing that very thing. There is a grant program from access to success here in Toronto. accesstosuccess.ca its $50k, global and is a start-up venture support effort. The idea would blend the ISPs with access focused tools in one location serving various population groups. A combination of what shell services provide, and public service providers offer. Its my time on the Google accessibility list feeding my motivation more than anything though smiles. Kare On Tue, 3 Jun 2025, Alex Kink wrote:
After following Karen's email threads about ISPs for several years, I believe she would be best off launching her own ISP, that meets her specific needs.
I'm only half joking.
On Jun 3, 2025, at 11:45, Karen Lewellen via talk <talk@gtalug.org> wrote:
teksavy does not keep track of what their contractors do when sent on business. However, they sent the police to my house with no issues whatsoever. If I want an absurdist comedy, I can just use bell instead.
On Tue, 3 Jun 2025, Arthur Gron via talk wrote:
For some reason Bell decided to put the access node for my side of the block, in a neighbour's backyard. He's ederly and goes on long vacations. At one point he lost the key to his fence, for the backyard. So when I have tech issues I call Teksavvy, they call Bell, Bell comes but can't access his backyard and leaves, repeat this 3 or 4 times until he is finally home. It's an absurdist comedy.
On 2025-06-03 11:14, Karen Lewellen via talk wrote:
Currently teksavy and I remain at the ccts..because they failed to insure my contracted landline was installed. Instead, without tracking their actions, they sent bell technicians to my house over and over again believing whatever story they told, even if the tech say never entered my house, left before I came tot he door, claimed I had a canceled account and so forth. While they are indeed terrific on the phone, their installers are with bell. Would love to use them for Internet, but my experience was beyond poor, it was reprehensible, with their just saying..hey we are only a bell reseller, what can we do? Kare
On Tue, 3 Jun 2025, Evan Leibovitch wrote:
While its prices are good, I stay with Teksavvy because of the tech support. Even at 3 AM they're always friendly, moreover they have a good knack for determining and then respecting the tech literacy level of the caller. The usual line from Bell and Rogers sales reps is that Teksavvy > customers are de-prioritised because they're a reseller compared to being directly served by the telcos. This is not my experience. When escalation to > Rogers or Bell happens -- and it has for me a few times over the decades -- Teksavvy stays on top of the incident and ensures it's addressed within > the
Happy with Teksavvy for both Internet and landline, I've been with them > for a very long time. I started with DSL service and now have cable. My street has fibre but I can't justify $100 per month. promised timeframe.
Based on what Karen described as her needs, if Teksavvy services her address she shouldn't have to spend more than $39 per month. Maybe even > the $30 per month plan will suffice. I happily recommend them. Even the sales phone number at 866-415-1845 operates 24/7. I happily recommend them. - Evan
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As a comparative example see sdf.org extra layers planned of course, but utilizing progressive enhancement as the service floor with tools like language translators, voice browser focused tools, editors, file downloaders already api solid, browsers with various configurations those sorts of things. On Tue, 3 Jun 2025, Karen Lewellen via talk wrote:
actually? I am considering doing that very thing. There is a grant program from access to success here in Toronto. accesstosuccess.ca its $50k, global and is a start-up venture support effort. The idea would blend the ISPs with access focused tools in one location serving various population groups. A combination of what shell services provide, and public service providers offer. Its my time on the Google accessibility list feeding my motivation more than anything though smiles. Kare
On Tue, 3 Jun 2025, Alex Kink wrote:
After following Karen's email threads about ISPs for several years, I believe she would be best off launching her own ISP, that meets her specific needs.
I'm only half joking.
On Jun 3, 2025, at 11:45, Karen Lewellen via talk <talk@gtalug.org> wrote:
teksavy does not keep track of what their contractors do when sent on business. However, they sent the police to my house with no issues whatsoever. If I want an absurdist comedy, I can just use bell instead.
On Tue, 3 Jun 2025, Arthur Gron via talk wrote:
For some reason Bell decided to put the access node for my side of the block, in a neighbour's backyard. He's ederly and goes on long vacations. At one point he lost the key to his fence, for the backyard. So when I have tech issues I call Teksavvy, they call Bell, Bell comes but can't access his backyard and leaves, repeat this 3 or 4 times until he is finally home. It's an absurdist comedy.
On 2025-06-03 11:14, Karen Lewellen via talk wrote:
Currently teksavy and I remain at the ccts..because they failed to insure my contracted landline was installed. Instead, without tracking their actions, they sent bell technicians to my house over and over again believing whatever story they told, even if the tech say never entered my house, left before I came tot he door, claimed I had a canceled account and so forth. While they are indeed terrific on the phone, their installers are with bell. Would love to use them for Internet, but my experience was beyond poor, it was reprehensible, with their just saying..hey we are only a bell reseller, what can we do? Kare
On Tue, 3 Jun 2025, Evan Leibovitch wrote:
Happy with Teksavvy for both Internet and landline, I've been with them > for a very long time. I started with DSL service and now have cable. My street has fibre but I can't justify $100 per month. > While its prices are good, I stay with Teksavvy because of the > tech support. Even at 3 AM they're always friendly, moreover they have a good knack for determining and then respecting the tech literacy level of the caller. > The usual line from Bell and Rogers sales reps is that Teksavvy > > customers are de-prioritised because they're a reseller compared to being directly served by the telcos. This is not my experience. When escalation to > Rogers or Bell happens -- and it has for me a few times over the decades -- Teksavvy stays on top of the incident and ensures it's addressed within > the promised timeframe. > Based on what Karen described as her needs, if Teksavvy > services her address she shouldn't have to spend more than $39 per month. Maybe even > the $30 per month plan will suffice. I happily recommend them. Even the sales phone number at 866-415-1845 operates 24/7. > I happily recommend them. > - Evan
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On 6/3/25 11:31, Arthur Gron via talk wrote:
For some reason Bell decided to put the access node for my side of the block, in a neighbour's backyard.
Both Bell and Rogers often have their cables in back yards. Apparently, some people don't like having that sort of thing in their front yard.
That's my case. Rogers' "node" is on 3 neighbours down, and cable is run along the fence to my backyard. On 2025-06-03 14:49, James Knott via talk wrote:
On 6/3/25 11:31, Arthur Gron via talk wrote:
For some reason Bell decided to put the access node for my side of the block, in a neighbour's backyard.
Both Bell and Rogers often have their cables in back yards. Apparently, some people don't like having that sort of thing in their front yard. --- Post to this mailing list talk@gtalug.org Unsubscribe from this mailing list https://gtalug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
participants (13)
-
Alex Kink -
Arthur Gron -
D. Hugh Redelmeier -
David Collier-Brown -
Digiital aka David -
Evan Leibovitch -
James Knott -
Karen Lewellen -
Lennart Sorensen -
Scott Allen -
Steve Petrie -
Vasilis Papadiamantopoulos -
William Park