No keyboard at boot?
The saga continues. While waiting for a replacement motherboard for my Lenovo T5, I hauled out a computer I had taken out of service about 16 months ago to have a working machine until I finally can install the motherboard. But here's the thing. When it boots up, I can use the keyboard and mouse at the BIOS screen and through most of the process -- but near the end, after enabling the network fails, it loses the keyboard. The mouse stays connected. So I get a login screen but no way to talk to it. Same problem using other keyboards. Eventually I figured out how to boot from a USB stick, and that gets all the way up with the keyboard, so it's something odd in the setup on the computer itself. I haven't tried to ssh in, because at the moment it tries to boot into a static ethernet address which isn't available, and so network connectivity fails. The system runs Arch Linux. The "easy" thing to do is just re-install Arch and start with a clean slate, which is likely what I'll do, but if anyone knows a quick and dirty fix I'd at least be able to save some configuration information from the computer. (Yes, I can do that from an Arch install USB by mounting / chrooting into it, but I'd rather understand the problem first.) Any idea what gives? Obviously a module for running the keyboard isn't being loaded somewhere...
Try unplugging the keyboard then plug it back in. If it is USB, try changing the port. Try another keyboard. Try booting an USB stick with some other live distro then peek into the Arch logs. On 10/10/2023 14:29, Peter King via talk wrote:
The saga continues.
While waiting for a replacement motherboard for my Lenovo T5, I hauled out a computer I had taken out of service about 16 months ago to have a working machine until I finally can install the motherboard. But here's the thing. When it boots up, I can use the keyboard and mouse at the BIOS screen and through most of the process -- but near the end, after enabling the network fails, it loses the keyboard. The mouse stays connected. So I get a login screen but no way to talk to it. Same problem using other keyboards. Eventually I figured out how to boot from a USB stick, and that gets all the way up with the keyboard, so it's something odd in the setup on the computer itself. I haven't tried to ssh in, because at the moment it tries to boot into a static ethernet address which isn't available, and so network connectivity fails.
The system runs Arch Linux. The "easy" thing to do is just re-install Arch and start with a clean slate, which is likely what I'll do, but if anyone knows a quick and dirty fix I'd at least be able to save some configuration information from the computer. (Yes, I can do that from an Arch install USB by mounting / chrooting into it, but I'd rather understand the problem first.)
Any idea what gives? Obviously a module for running the keyboard isn't being loaded somewhere...
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Thanks. Tried unplugging/plugging, changing ports, other keyboards; still nothing. Will try looking at the logs when I'm back at the machine -- that is a good thought that just hadn't occurred to me. On 10/10/23 14:39, Aurelian Melinte via talk wrote:
Try unplugging the keyboard then plug it back in. If it is USB, try changing the port. Try another keyboard. Try booting an USB stick with some other live distro then peek into the Arch logs.
On 10/10/2023 14:29, Peter King via talk wrote:
The saga continues.
While waiting for a replacement motherboard for my Lenovo T5, I hauled out a computer I had taken out of service about 16 months ago to have a working machine until I finally can install the motherboard. But here's the thing. When it boots up, I can use the keyboard and mouse at the BIOS screen and through most of the process -- but near the end, after enabling the network fails, it loses the keyboard. The mouse stays connected. So I get a login screen but no way to talk to it. Same problem using other keyboards. Eventually I figured out how to boot from a USB stick, and that gets all the way up with the keyboard, so it's something odd in the setup on the computer itself. I haven't tried to ssh in, because at the moment it tries to boot into a static ethernet address which isn't available, and so network connectivity fails.
The system runs Arch Linux. The "easy" thing to do is just re-install Arch and start with a clean slate, which is likely what I'll do, but if anyone knows a quick and dirty fix I'd at least be able to save some configuration information from the computer. (Yes, I can do that from an Arch install USB by mounting / chrooting into it, but I'd rather understand the problem first.)
Any idea what gives? Obviously a module for running the keyboard isn't being loaded somewhere...
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-- Peter King peter.king@utoronto.ca Department of Philosophy 170 St. George Street #521 The University of Toronto (416)-946-3170 ofc Toronto, ON M5R 2M8 CANADA http://individual.utoronto.ca/pking/ ========================================================================= GPG keyID 0x7587EC42 (2B14 A355 46BC 2A16 D0BC 36F5 1FE6 D32A 7587 EC42) gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --recv-keys 7587EC42
Checked the logs, which wasn't helpful; there was no persistent log, and I can only maneuver when booting from the USB stick -- which doesn't have the problem in the first place -- so no easy way to see what is or isn't loading when there is a problem. Found a suggestion on Reddit that the problem might be in changes to vconsole.conf, specifically to use a private keymap, so I changed that file to longer use a private keymap, but it didn't help. I also tried changing the boot network configuration, and the only result of that seems to be a more complete freeze, so now the computer doesn't even boot to a login prompt. I think it's time for a full reset of the BIOS to the defaults, pull all the installed hard disks, and do a complete wipe/reinstall. There is a reason the machine was out of service. This, mind you, to get a replacement machine for the one with the flaky motherboard (which runs just fine once it has booted as long as you reset time/date and don't try to run X). On 10/10/23 14:39, Aurelian Melinte via talk wrote:
Try unplugging the keyboard then plug it back in. If it is USB, try changing the port. Try another keyboard. Try booting an USB stick with some other live distro then peek into the Arch logs. --- Post to this mailing listtalk@gtalug.org Unsubscribe from this mailing listhttps://gtalug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
On 11/10/2023 11:50, Peter King via talk wrote:
This, mind you, to get a replacement machine for the one with the flaky motherboard (which runs just fine once it has booted as long as you reset time/date and don't try to run X).
Change the BIOS battery for the old MB? I would expect the BIOS to beep at you for a dead battery but time issues suggest me only the battery as a cause -- -- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. www.avast.com
I did change the battery. It still won’t hold time/date. Hence the technical term ‘flaky’. Sent from my iPad On Oct 11, 2023, at 1:56 PM, Aurelian Melinte via talk <talk@gtalug.org> wrote: On 11/10/2023 11:50, Peter King via talk wrote: This, mind you, to get a replacement machine for the one with the flaky motherboard (which runs just fine once it has booted as long as you reset time/date and don't try to run X). Change the BIOS battery for the old MB? I would expect the BIOS to beep at you for a dead battery but time issues suggest me only the battery as a cause -- [https://s-install.avcdn.net/ipm/preview/icons/icon-envelope-tick-round-orange-animated-no-repeat-v1.gif]<https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient> Virus-free.www.avast.com<https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient> --- Post to this mailing list talk@gtalug.org Unsubscribe from this mailing list https://gtalug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
Peter King via talk wrote on 2023-10-11 08:50:
Checked the logs, which wasn't helpful; there was no persistent log
Unsure of your setup, but this may be useful for someone: ## See the selection of previous boot logs: journalctl --list-boots ## Check the logs from the *previous* boot: journalctl --boot -1 ## To check the *previous* boot logs for udev and postfix ## (random examples): journalctl --boot -1 --unit udev* --unit postfix ## If booted from USB and wanting to check previous non-USB boot, ## add a --directory pointing to the HD: journalctl --directory /mnt/myHD/var/log/journal/... --boot -1 etc. Was very concerned about "systemd is using binary logging, this breaks everything!" way back when, however... Turns out, journalctl is pretty powerful and has some really great features.
| From: Peter King via talk <talk@gtalug.org> | I haven't tried to ssh in, because at the moment it tries to boot | into a static ethernet address which isn't available, and so network | connectivity fails. When I have my ethernet ports configured in an inconvenient way, I have plugged in a USB ethernet dongle and SSHed in through that. Usually the dongle will have a default configuration that is functional in an ordinarly LAN. Where is the inconveniet network configuration? Do you use NetworkManager (config seems to be in /etc/NetworkManager) or the old scripts (/etc/sysconfig/network-scripts on some system). If you can hide that obsolete configuration, you might be ahead.
Booted from a USB with Arch Linux on it; chroot into the now-working computer; ran a system update (massive: 500+ packages). Something in there -- likely the new kernel and firmware -- fixed the keyboard problem. So I didn't have to reinstall, just get far enough in to do an upgrade. I now have a functional computer to replace the Lenovo T5. For those of you keeping score, I *still* do not have the replacement MB I ordered from Canada Computers on 27 September. (And, yes, when I ordered it they listed it as in stock.) I got an email from them yesterday telling me they hoped to have the order ready in a week. I got another email from them today asking if I wanted to cancel my order. I am very tempted to do so and yank the components and build up a new computer from scratch at this point. On 10/10/23 14:29, Peter King via talk wrote:
The saga continues.
While waiting for a replacement motherboard for my Lenovo T5, I hauled out a computer I had taken out of service about 16 months ago to have a working machine until I finally can install the motherboard. But here's the thing. When it boots up, I can use the keyboard and mouse at the BIOS screen and through most of the process -- but near the end, after enabling the network fails, it loses the keyboard. The mouse stays connected. So I get a login screen but no way to talk to it. Same problem using other keyboards. Eventually I figured out how to boot from a USB stick, and that gets all the way up with the keyboard, so it's something odd in the setup on the computer itself. I haven't tried to ssh in, because at the moment it tries to boot into a static ethernet address which isn't available, and so network connectivity fails.
The system runs Arch Linux. The "easy" thing to do is just re-install Arch and start with a clean slate, which is likely what I'll do, but if anyone knows a quick and dirty fix I'd at least be able to save some configuration information from the computer. (Yes, I can do that from an Arch install USB by mounting / chrooting into it, but I'd rather understand the problem first.)
Any idea what gives? Obviously a module for running the keyboard isn't being loaded somewhere...
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-- Peter King peter.king@utoronto.ca Department of Philosophy 170 St. George Street #521 The University of Toronto (416)-946-3170 ofc Toronto, ON M5R 2M8 CANADA http://individual.utoronto.ca/pking/ ========================================================================= GPG keyID 0x7587EC42 (2B14 A355 46BC 2A16 D0BC 36F5 1FE6 D32A 7587 EC42) gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --recv-keys 7587EC42
| From: Peter King via talk <talk@gtalug.org> | Booted from a USB with Arch Linux on it; chroot into the now-working computer; | ran a system update (massive: 500+ packages). Something in there -- likely | the new kernel and firmware -- fixed the keyboard problem. So I didn't have | to reinstall, just get far enough in to do an upgrade. Wow. Heroic measures. | I now have a functional computer to replace the Lenovo T5. For those of you | keeping score, I *still* do not have the replacement MB I ordered from Canada | Computers on 27 September. I'm a broken record: I'd cancel the MB order and get Lenovo Warranty service. I have to admit my experience with warranty service hasn't been stellar. Problems still being resolved. Here are the ones I've dealt with today: - an Asus notebook died (lights on but not POST). Sent it in. They now say that their are going to transfer the patient to the US. In return for the inconvenience, they are extending the warranty 90 days. I hope that isn't an indication of how long they will have my machine. - HP Aero with flaky WiFi. I know how to make it work in Linux (suppressing sleep modes on the card) but I think that that impairs battery life. In Windows, it is unreliable. Talked for hours with support, getting nowhere. Fun fact: asked ChatGPT (through Edge or Bing on Windows). It came up with an answer that was congruent with my beliefs -- impressive. Support Chat fails now. Grrr. - got a Dyson refurbished ed vacuum in July. One broken part and one missing part. They sent a replacement for the broken part promptly. But the missing part was out of stock. I had to phone them today to remind them to send it to me. CSR didn't know what a "wand clip" was (neither do I -- I've never had one). After perhaps half an hour of chat, they will send one.
Apparently the problems/errors/failures I reported are a known problem that Lenovo has refused to address: http://reddit.com/r/techsupport/comments/ztvro4/lenovo_legion_5_t5_are_seemi... This is bad enough, and widespread enough, that owners of these computers trying to bring a class-action lawsuit against Lenovo: https://topclassactions.com/lawsuit-settlements/consumer-products/electronic... There is a genuine hardware problem with the motherboard, curable only by swapping out the motherboard for a non-Lenovo equivalent. So, I am simply going to swap the motherboard, take it as a bad decision to have bought this computer, and never do business with Lenovo again. A pity; I have used and enjoyed the ThinkPad series for a long time. But no more dealings with a company that acts like this. On 10/25/23 16:21, D. Hugh Redelmeier via talk wrote:
| From: Peter King via talk<talk@gtalug.org>
| Booted from a USB with Arch Linux on it; chroot into the now-working computer; | ran a system update (massive: 500+ packages). Something in there -- likely | the new kernel and firmware -- fixed the keyboard problem. So I didn't have | to reinstall, just get far enough in to do an upgrade.
Wow. Heroic measures.
| I now have a functional computer to replace the Lenovo T5. For those of you | keeping score, I *still* do not have the replacement MB I ordered from Canada | Computers on 27 September.
I'm a broken record: I'd cancel the MB order and get Lenovo Warranty service.
-- Peter King peter.king@utoronto.ca Department of Philosophy 170 St. George Street #521 The University of Toronto (416)-946-3170 ofc Toronto, ON M5R 2M8 CANADA http://individual.utoronto.ca/pking/ ========================================================================= GPG keyID 0x7587EC42 (2B14 A355 46BC 2A16 D0BC 36F5 1FE6 D32A 7587 EC42) gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --recv-keys 7587EC42
| From: Peter King via talk <talk@gtalug.org> | Apparently the problems/errors/failures I reported are a known problem that | Lenovo has refused to address: | http://reddit.com/r/techsupport/comments/ztvro4/lenovo_legion_5_t5_are_seemi... Wow! That's truly terrible. And very hard to understand how Lenovo could let this bleed on. Reading that, it makes me wonder if you could do a firmware update every month to ward off the bug. But I cannot think of a rational mechanism that would make that work. Does the T5 victim community have a preferred replacement motherboard?
The consensus seems to be that the Lenovo board is a middling-range B550 AM4 board, so there are lots of options; people have reported success in swapping it out for models from Asus, Gigabyte, MSI, and perhaps others. I ordered a Gigabyte B550M DS3H AC AM4, which several people said worked well -- the only drawback is that the connectors for the gamer mod lights need extensions; since I don't care about the lights, that was no bother. (Oh, and a CPU fan: somehow the Lenovo one doesn't fit in the normal sockets.) Still waiting for that motherboard to come in, but at least I swapped in another computer so I can get work done until the MB arrives and I have time to do the swap. Oddly enough, if on the ailing Lenovo Legion T5 26AMR the heat sensor alarms are turned off, now the only sign that anything is awry is that it won't hold the time/date. (It isn't the battery, which I've changed twice; it's one of the common symptoms.) I check the internal temperatures and they are fine; apparently the motherboard thinks that the fans aren't working, but they certainly are -- I can see them spinning. Go figure. On 10/26/23 03:00, D. Hugh Redelmeier via talk wrote:
| From: Peter King via talk<talk@gtalug.org>
| Apparently the problems/errors/failures I reported are a known problem that | Lenovo has refused to address: |http://reddit.com/r/techsupport/comments/ztvro4/lenovo_legion_5_t5_are_seemi...
Wow! That's truly terrible. And very hard to understand how Lenovo could let this bleed on.
Reading that, it makes me wonder if you could do a firmware update every month to ward off the bug. But I cannot think of a rational mechanism that would make that work.
Does the T5 victim community have a preferred replacement motherboard? --- Post to this mailing listtalk@gtalug.org Unsubscribe from this mailing listhttps://gtalug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
participants (5)
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Aurelian Melinte -
BCLUG -
D. Hugh Redelmeier -
Peter King -
Peter King