This subject is mostly for the list maintainers as it is in fact related to the list policy. It can get tiresome to have people send me private emails at the address they have harvested from this list. Social responsibility dictates that I have a process I may follow, albeit a voluntary one. In general if you have sent me a private email: You are not a troll; if you are on the list and I reply in kind without mentioning the word troll. If you are a troll, I told you that. I told you that because, you don't know the first rules of online etiquette. Now I have to address the OP. When you started the conversation off list, you don't respond to my online post off-list again just by putting the word off-list in the subject, we have never met face to face. On a list, if you don't know someone personally, the correct way to take it off-list is to send a post saying lets go off-list as this is not general interest or otherwise private. You are a double troll if we have never interacted and you email me privately, but that was a different person. <snip all the stuff the OP doesn't know about IO streams> I tried to be nice but this is what I finally said to the last troll. <begin_repelling_troll> "I have to remember the first rule of listserve, don't feed the trolls they are ungrateful and bite the hand that feeds them. All the techs who didn't respond, did that because you don't know the basics and they couldn't be bothered. This list is a little different, it has a lot of newbies so I bothered to ask, now I'm sorry I did. You don't know what init process is you don't know what configuration files to look for and are a Windows transplant in the world of GNU software. You are like every other user who has trolled me from this list, poorly regurgitating what someone else has told you without understanding of the basics. You know that, that is why you took it off-list and why I went back to the list after you made me do the homework you don't have a clue about. There are no how-tos for dealing with trolls, but there is a troll spotting guide and I followed it." </begin_repelling_troll> For the list maintainers. I don't know who the OP is or where they are but if they are an employed Tech, self or other, who is trying to work with hardware they don't understand, they should at least know this. In fact everyone who is employed should know this. This is why I included the SAP ISO. Canada is a first signer of this protocol. Clause 7 addresses volunteerism. -- Russell Sent by K-9 Mail