On Thu, Jul 27, 2023 at 5:07 PM BCLUG via talk <talk@gtalug.org> wrote:
o1bigtenor wrote on 2023-07-27 14:23:
In my view computers should change to suit humans, not the other way around.
So thankful that I'm not the only one who thinks this way. Is there any way to make this louder
Sounds like you guys hate CLI environments and probably use Siri / Google Assistant / Alexa / *voice* as a near ideal human-like user interface then?
Hmmmmmm - - - - I remember the advertisements early on in microcomputers - - - - you know - - - - "computing your way" implying that an IT department wasn't going to force you to do things the way they wanted. That was considered a great idea - - - - until those same IT departments - - - - now responsible for fleets of microcomputers - - - well - - - they decided that they're the only ones who understand how a computer should be used.
Those IT departments weren't wrong.
Snickering (its the only possible response!).
You may have noticed that the world has changed, and for example, letting users store all their documents all over their PCs is a disaster when it comes to backing up business documents.
So, IT removed some options from users, because typical users don't "understand how a computer should be used".
Nope IT removed almost all options from users because they think that they're the only ones that understand how to use a computer. Its something like the debate between gnome and kde. The debate boils down to how one processes things - - - - ergo - - - how one thinks.
Do what you want on your own computers, but at work you cannot store critical documents in C:\WINDOWS\VERYIMPORTANTFINANCIALS\THISMUSTBESAVED.doc
Interesting example - - - - seems like the staff at the company you work for really have no clue about how to do business. Rescue yourself from such tedium - - - find a better job!
You know - - - - where you only have a gui environment - - - or where you only have a cli environment - - - - or where your cli environment stifles flexibility - - - - (shall I go on ?).
Again, do what you want with *your own* computers.
And what's with - - - - the - - - - writing - - - - "style" - - - - ? Is there - - - - a - - - - reason?
Yes there is - - - have you ever noticed how in speech there is a rhythm to it? Or perhaps you interact seldom with mouth breathers? Its an attempt at massaging written language into a shape closer to that of speech.
Desktop environments take their name and derive the concept from offices in the pre-electronic age. Window managers sound like something only pertinent to computers. Like terminals.
As such the technology makes it easier to work with for most of us. (Except for the idea of 0 being an actual counter as it is in only the computing world.)
I'm confused as to what point you're trying to make now.
Sounds quite un-Linuxy.
What - - - - you're not going to regale us on how you use VT-100 terminals for so very many years as you perfected your use of assembly language?
No, that would be stupid.
I'm just pointing out "computers that work like humans" (or "change to suit humans") and "command line interfaces" seem rather mutually exclusive.
Humans communicate verbally for the most part until we all learned to type - we changed to work in a more computer-centric manner.
And I love working in a CLI. But I'm working in the computer's way, it's not working in a human way.
It's highly efficient to know bash, etc., yet shells are rather unlike any human to human communication techniques.
Hmmmmmmmmmm - - - mathematics, motion control are two areas that come to mind where one can use either a cli or a much more natural language. Whatever it takes to get the job done.
Hence my semi-jesting message about how much we really want computers to suit humans, as the computer interfaces that most suit typical humans are anathema to computer geeks and LUG members.
It might come down to a very different way of looking at things. I suffer from being multi-lingual - - - it is fascinating to me that the first computer that I used was easiest to use along with the widest capabilities - - - - some almost 40 years ago. Even today I find trying to use multiple languages in a document is a right royal pita. Supposedly I can use special characters but I find the still remembered character groupings from the Mac far more intuitive than anything that I've seen in linux - - - - even though linux is available in far more languages than any other system that I know about. But then it seems that programmers don't find it too important to communicate with people - - - - its just more fun to communicate with a computer, and therein lies the rub. Regards