Hugh, Many thanks for your thoughtful reply. My remarks are below. Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: "D. Hugh Redelmeier via talk" <talk@gtalug.org> To: "GTALUG Talk" <talk@gtalug.org> Sent: Monday, July 24, 2017 12:27 PM Subject: Re: [GTALUG] Tutorials on Linux command-line -- any interest?
| From: "Steve Petrie, P.Eng. via talk" <talk@gtalug.org>
<snip>
vi skills are pretty basic to using Linux. But I don't have them and I've survived. I've used UNIX and then Linux as my primary OS since before vi existed. Still, I recommend learning vi if you can stand it.
For new users there are a lot of reasonable choices: gedit and nano/pico, for example.
I happily use an emacs-subset "jove" as my editor. emacs' keystrokes are known to nano/pico, alpine (Mail User Agent), and to bash so I'm mostly OK without vi skills.
(vi grew out of UNIX ed, a "line editor". The concept of modes is in its DNA. Modes are a Bad Thing. "don't mode me in" is a rallying cry found on Larry Tesler's t-shirt.)
For decades, emacs was much more powerful than vi and some of that power is quite useful (eg. multiple buffers and multiple panes). vim has probably caught up.
Many helpful tips about line editors under linux, much appreciated. What primarily conditions my choices of various tools (and pretty well all else) in the transition from Win XP to debian Linux, is an overriding need for maximum simplicity of working environment. I need to be able to switch quickly from one of my projects to another, sometimes not touching a project for many months. Everything I work on better be plain dead dumb simple to understand and use, because I'm never ever going to be other than barely scratching the surface of what Linux can do for me. This need for simplicity and personal time economy, even conditions the time I will take to choose tools for my Linux personal toolbox. It''s a paradox. Computers and the Internet are so vitally importent to the projects I work on that I am investing a lot of time fine-tuniing the Windows => Linux move (both hw and sw). At the same time, I have too many projects on the go, and too little time left in this world in which to complete them. But I so love working at computers and programming that only sternest self-denial keeps me from entanglement in the pleasures of Linux hair-splitting. The last thing I need is to spend too much time learning neat new stuff about Linux if this takes me away from pushing around the other chequers on my chequerboard of life ...
I'm not sure why one would pick mksh ("MirBSD Korn Shell") over bash. Could you explain?
<snip> <bash is everywhere. Microsoft now supports bash on Win10! If mksh <has no significant advantage, you are better off with bash. Are there <significant advantages for you? I'm a Linux newbie. My only Unix-related experience is a project I worked on many years ago before I retired as an independent contract software engineer. Technical lead on a project to customize and install an annuities system (broker sale transactions, annuitant management and payout) for a life insurance company, running under IBM's AIX version of Unux. I was handed KSH as my shell. I always found KSH to be rock solid and easy enought to use. So I rationalized my MKSH decision with Linux as "better the devil you used to know". As with other decisions I have made in my Win ==> Lin transition, I am open to having my mind changed by advice from GTALUG members, Based on your advice, I'll very likely step up to bash and forget about mksh. I did take a serious look at Fish Shell. But in the end that team's almost joyful ease with breaking backward compatibility, aroused my terror of all things bleeding edge, to rule out Fish shell. Your point about bash being everywhere rang a loud bell for me. Quite likely bash is going to rear its friendly head anyway, during my life with Linux, in the form of tool-specific bash scripting included with some tool I choose to use.
Pick your fights. Here are some I've picked:
- I use Linux, not Windows +1 (soon).
- I use Jove (emacs subset), not vi, not emacs noted.
use C, not C++ I use C++ mostly like C but with some simple objects and exceptions.
- (lost long ago) Atari ST, not IBM PC
Lost long ago Imsai 8080 (kit) & Commodore 64.
And some I have not fought:
- I use whatever desktop my distro provides
I plan to use LXDE (Win-like & low resource utilization). <snip>
| I may install Windows (7 / 10) in case of a dire need for some Windows | functionality. E.g. flashing the ASROCK mainboard bios. But just today | (24 July 2017), I learned from D. Hugh Redelmeier's posting, about the | FreeDOS alternative for flashing firmware, so I've tucked that idea away | in a notes file for future reference -- Thanks Hugh !!
I'm glad you found that useful. I just assumed (with no basis!) that everyone knew about FreeDOS.
I did know about (the liklihood of things like) FreeDOS. What I didn't know is that it seems that bios firmware patches must come in some kind of community-standard representation that frees motherboard users from being stuck with using the mb-maker's fw update tool.
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