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OT: keyboard layouts
by taavi-LbuTpDkqzNzXI80/IeQp7B2eb7JE58TQ＠public.gmane.org 12 Dec '03

12 Dec '03

On Fri, Dec 12, 2003 at 10:59:02AM -0500, Fraser Campbell wrote: > Are you suggesting I buy a regular split keyboard but tell the system that > it's dvorak? Glyphs on the keyboard are rather useful when you're still > learning the layout. While learning the layout myself, I printed out a diagram of a keyboard (colour coded for which keys are to be hit by which fingers) and put it under the monitor. You shouldn't ever be looking at the keyboard while typing. That's what the nubs on f and j and 5 (or d and k on mac keyboards) are for. :) > > http://www.kinesis-ergo.com/keyboards.htm > > http://www.kinesis-ergo.com/us_versions.htm > > Ahh, do I want the chair mounted evolution keyboard with built in > touchpad, or do I want the Professional Contoured Keyboard with foot > pedal, on the fly qwerty->dvorak switching, hmmm ... now do I want > to spent over 200 USD on a keyboard :-) Aye, that's the trick. :) -- taa /*eof*/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml

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OT: keyboard layouts
by fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg＠public.gmane.org 12 Dec '03

12 Dec '03

On Friday 12 December 2003 10:31, Oliver Meyn wrote: > Trying not to support M$ whenever possible I bought the logitech version > and have been quite happy with it Good to know, I'd only ever seen the Microsoft versions. -- Fraser Campbell <fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org> http://www.wehave.net/ Halton Hills, Ontario, Canada Debian GNU/Linux -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml

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OT: keyboard layouts
by fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg＠public.gmane.org 12 Dec '03

12 Dec '03

On Friday 12 December 2003 10:21, Taavi Burns wrote: > > I'd like to get myself a new keyboard for Christmas. I'm considering the > > split keyboard (Microsoft Natural IIRC) or a dvorak layout. > > And these two are mutually exclusive how? :) > > You can easily use both. If you're interested in alternative layouts > for the keyboard, you should be quite prepared to NOT be looking at the > keys anyway, so the glyphs on them shouldn't matter. Are you suggesting I buy a regular split keyboard but tell the system that it's dvorak? Glyphs on the keyboard are rather useful when you're still learning the layout. > I have a few coworkers who use keybaords from Kinesis. I believe that > one of them uses it with a Dvorak, while the other still uses qwerty. > Kinesis offers a selection of keyboards ranging from nearly > traditional to "pretty far out and pricey". So again, it depends how > much you want to spend. > > http://www.kinesis-ergo.com/keyboards.htm > http://www.kinesis-ergo.com/us_versions.htm Ahh, do I want the chair mounted evolution keyboard with built in touchpad, or do I want the Professional Contoured Keyboard with foot pedal, on the fly qwerty->dvorak switching, hmmm ... now do I want to spent over 200 USD on a keyboard :-) -- Fraser Campbell <fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org> http://www.wehave.net/ Halton Hills, Ontario, Canada Debian GNU/Linux -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml

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OT: keyboard layouts
by taavi-LbuTpDkqzNzXI80/IeQp7B2eb7JE58TQ＠public.gmane.org 12 Dec '03

12 Dec '03

On Fri, Dec 12, 2003 at 10:31:55AM -0500, Jing Su wrote: > The fancier kinesis (the one I have) supports two layouts. The keys are > labelled with both. You can, on the fly, switch layouts without having to > modify your locale settings. The Kinesis also supports keyboard macros > and button remapping. Yeah, the hardware remapping is nice, because you can use your preferred layout during OS installation, recovery, and BIOS duties (who types text into the bios? Not me! But maybe if you plug it into a Mac and need to mess around in OpenFirmware..). > My only gripe with Dvorak (and why it has been hard for me to switch) is > that most programs have hotkeys that assume you're using Qwerty. This > goes for OpenOffice and Emacs. The old combinations that were reasonable > on qwerty are uncomfortable in Dvorak. Any program worth its salt should allow you to remap the control keys anyway. :) -- taa /*eof*/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml

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OT: keyboard layouts
by fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg＠public.gmane.org 12 Dec '03

12 Dec '03

On Friday 12 December 2003 10:27, JoeHill wrote: > That ache is probably from the tension of holding your fingers above the > keyboard at the wrong height/angle. > > What this usually means is that the keyboard is not set at the proper > height/ slant for your hands and forearms to be parallel with the desk. > Your elbow should be as close to a 90 degree angle as possible to avoid > that strain you are experiencing. Good point, the ergonomics of my home setup are pretty atrocious. I do plan to improve that as well ;-) -- Fraser Campbell <fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org> http://www.wehave.net/ Halton Hills, Ontario, Canada Debian GNU/Linux -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml

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OT: keyboard layouts
by taavi-LbuTpDkqzNzXI80/IeQp7B2eb7JE58TQ＠public.gmane.org 12 Dec '03

12 Dec '03

On Fri, Dec 12, 2003 at 10:29:51AM -0500, JoeHill wrote: > On Fri, 12 Dec 2003 10:21:11 -0500 Taavi Burns <taavi-LbuTpDkqzNzXI80/IeQp7B2eb7JE58TQ at public.gmane.org> > wrote: > > > I can type about 10WPM on a Dvorak layout (vs >70 on a qwerty), so I > > haven't exactly switched over myself. The Dvorak layout "feels" better to > > me, though, even while being thoroughly frustrating because it's so slow. > > ;) > > Isn't Dvorak supposed to speed up typing? I mean as opposed to qwerty, which > was originally intended to make typing slower, preventing fast typists from > outpacing the old typewriters. Yes, it is supposed to be faster...once you're up to speed on it. :) I haven't spent the time to increase my speed yet. I suppose I should have made that more explicit. IIRC the statistic for fully switching from qwerty to Dvorak is a 50% increase in WPM and a doubling of accuracy. No, I'm not sure where those numbers came from. www.discover.com has an article in their archives "The Curse of Qwerty" which is where I probably got it from. -- taa /*eof*/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml

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OT: keyboard layouts
by jingsu-26n5VD7DAF2Tm46uYYfjYg＠public.gmane.org 12 Dec '03

12 Dec '03

> I have a few coworkers who use keybaords from Kinesis. I believe that > > http://www.kinesis-ergo.com/keyboards.htm > http://www.kinesis-ergo.com/us_versions.htm > > BTW, the guy who uses Dvorak does use vi; he's just learned where the > control keys are. I have a kinesis keyboard at home. While I agree that it's very pricey, it's worth the price. It's very comfortable on the hands. They did a good job of putting all the keys within hands reach, without having to stretch your fingers to reach keys like "Backspace". The fancier kinesis (the one I have) supports two layouts. The keys are labelled with both. You can, on the fly, switch layouts without having to modify your locale settings. The Kinesis also supports keyboard macros and button remapping. My only gripe with Dvorak (and why it has been hard for me to switch) is that most programs have hotkeys that assume you're using Qwerty. This goes for OpenOffice and Emacs. The old combinations that were reasonable on qwerty are uncomfortable in Dvorak. -Jing -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml

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OT: keyboard layouts
by lists-tZhE6lH4Esk+k03BA+Hq9g＠public.gmane.org 12 Dec '03

12 Dec '03

On Fri, 2003-12-12 at 10:06, Fraser Campbell wrote: > Hi, > > I'd like to get myself a new keyboard for Christmas. I'm considering the > split keyboard (Microsoft Natural IIRC) or a dvorak layout. > > I find that if I type a lot (programming session of any significant length) > then the top of my hands start to really ache. Anyone have > experience/recommendations on the effectiveness of different keyboards in > reducing typing fatigue? I'm a recent convert to the split keyboard and now a strong proponent. It does take some getting used (and next time you go to a server console you'll feel really cramped :) but I've found that instead of my wrists looking sort of like | | / \ which caused wrist and thumb pain after more than 4 hrs of typing, they now look more like / \ / \ which I gather is more natural, and sure feels a lot better. Trying not to support M$ whenever possible I bought the logitech version and have been quite happy with it (rh9, 10 & mandrake 9.1 through kvm). It's wireless (mine came with mouse) and hasn't been too bad on batteries. Cheers, Oliver -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml

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OT: keyboard layouts
by joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg＠public.gmane.org 12 Dec '03

12 Dec '03

On Fri, 12 Dec 2003 10:21:11 -0500 Taavi Burns <taavi-LbuTpDkqzNzXI80/IeQp7B2eb7JE58TQ at public.gmane.org> wrote: > I can type about 10WPM on a Dvorak layout (vs >70 on a qwerty), so I > haven't exactly switched over myself. The Dvorak layout "feels" better > to me, though, even while being thoroughly frustrating because it's so > slow. ;) Isn't Dvorak supposed to speed up typing? I mean as opposed to qwerty, which was originally intended to make typing slower, preventing fast typists from outpacing the old typewriters. -- JoeHill ++ ICQ # 280779813 Registered Linux user #282046 Homepage: www.orderinchaos.org +++++++++++++++++++++++++++ "The US is our trading partner, our neighbour, our ally and our friend... and sometimes we'd like to give them such a smack!"-- Rick Mercer -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml

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OT: keyboard layouts
by joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg＠public.gmane.org 12 Dec '03

12 Dec '03

On Fri, 12 Dec 2003 10:06:40 -0500 Fraser Campbell <fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org> wrote: > I find that if I type a lot (programming session of any significant length) > then the top of my hands start to really ache. Anyone have > experience/recommendations on the effectiveness of different keyboards in > reducing typing fatigue? That ache is probably from the tension of holding your fingers above the keyboard at the wrong height/angle. What this usually means is that the keyboard is not set at the proper height/ slant for your hands and forearms to be parallel with the desk. Your elbow should be as close to a 90 degree angle as possible to avoid that strain you are experiencing. I would really recommend, beyond just the keyboard, an adjustable keyboard tray with a built-in wrist support. I picked one up at Ikea for about 40 bucks, IIRC, and it is a wonder. It bolts to the underside of your desk, and is fully adjustable in terms of height, slant, and distance from the desk, and the keyboard sits in a tray with a nice soft wrist support in front of it. I used to work at Bell, so I know all the ergonomics guidelines ;-) I just wish I had a *chair* like I had there, they go for about 800 bucks. -- JoeHill ++ ICQ # 280779813 Registered Linux user #282046 Homepage: www.orderinchaos.org +++++++++++++++++++++++++++ "Reality is what you can get away with." -- Robert Anton Wilson -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml

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